Jesus healing ministry, what can I learn?

Tolworth John

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You said:



I'm not sure how "that's what I said" can be read out of your original response quoted just above. You also said:



Which is incorrect.
Don't forget,low your first post the second, thathealing was a aside.
Jesus5 mission was not physical hea,ing, but reconciliation of man to God.
As such healing was a means to dramatic show he was here to serve God's purpose.
Healing then as today was not the priority.
 
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Tolworth John

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Did you read the exchange between Jesus and the disciples of John the Baptist in the scripture I provided for you? (Luke 7:19-22)

Jesus healed because prophecy stated that Israel will recognize their Messiah thru the healings.

Telling someone after the event is not advertising, it is reporting.

Jesus healed as a part of afar bigger mission, that of saving souls
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Don't forget,low your first post the second, thathealing was a aside.
Jesus5 mission was not physical hea,ing, but reconciliation of man to God.
As such healing was a means to dramatic show he was here to serve God's purpose.
Healing then as today was not the priority.

I don't disagree with you that healing "isn't a priority" in the sense of salvation of souls is ultimately what matters above everything else. But Jesus' blood paid for healing just as it paid for sins, that is even in Isaiah and quoted by Matthew. So I think it does matter to God vastly more than what most people think it does.
 
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Guojing

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Telling someone after the event is not advertising, it is reporting.

Jesus healed as a part of afar bigger mission, that of saving souls

Jesus first coming was for the nation of Israel. (Matthew 15:24, Romans 15:8)

Do you agree with that in the first place?

So if Moses told Israel in Deut 18 that

15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

So how would Israel recognize that that "Prophet" has come? By his many healing signs he would do among them, as testified in John 20:30-31 and Luke 7:19-22.
 
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The thought I want to introduce is that the Gospels are historical narrative. They are mainly descriptive in nature, but not necessarily prescriptive - applying directly to us - unless it is clearly stated in the text.

This means that the reference in Matthew that reflects Isaiah 53 refers to Jesus' healing of people as part of His ministry to the Jews. But there is no direct text that says that the reference applies to anyone else other than Jesus. Also, we see the descriptions of how Jesus went about healing sick people, but no prescriptive indication that we will have the same success if we copy Jesus' methods.

There are other examples of descriptive narrative in the Gospels and Acts, and it is assumed by many that they equally apply to us today, even though there are no statements in the text that they should apply to us. What we need to do is to carefully examine the Biblical text to see what it actually says, not what we may think it says.

For example, Jesus made clay out of His saliva and the dust of the ground, put it in blind man's eyes and told him to go wash it off. The man was healed. But there is nothing in the text that says that we can do the same and get the same results.

There are people who believe they can walk on water and control the weather because Jesus did; yet there is no indication in the text that this ability is transferred to us.

We know that Peter, John and Paul had remarkable healing in their ministries, even people rising from the dead, but this is again, descriptive narrative with no indication that ordinary believers can do the same. The ending of Mark where it says that believers can lay hands on the sick and they will recover, is doubtful, and the best manuscripts leave it out, we we can't rely on that reference. Yet in the book of James, the elders of the church are able to lay hands on sick people and expect that the Lord will raise them up. This is an indication that what James says is prescriptive for all church elders, but not necessarily for rank and file believers.

But we can pray to the Lord for healing of sick people, because Philippians 4:5-6, about making our requests, with thanksgiving, known to God is prescriptive for all believers. The verse, "The effectual fervent prayers of a righteous man avail much" is also prescriptive for all believers. But a text prescribing that ordinary believers who are not church elders can minister healing outside of the local church environment, is hard to find. This is probably the reason why many who are not church elders running around laying hands on sick people, commanding healing are not successful.

Just in case some doubt, I am a Reformed Restorationist Charismatic in my theology, and firmly believes that God does heal today. But God is sovereign and heals a sick person when He decides to. He is in control of it, not us. We can ask Him to heal someone, but we can't command it. We can't minister healing in the same way that Jesus did, because we are not Jesus. There is a Word-Faith teaching that we can be "little gods" and be the same as Jesus. They teach that Jesus was not divine before His resurrection and was just a normal human filled with the Holy Spirit. This is actually the Arian heresy condemned by the early church. But the Word-Faith people say that because Jesus was an ordinary person empowered by the Holy Spirit, we can be just like Him, because we are just ordinary people empowered by the Holy Spirit. But this is a false teaching based on heresy.

In summary, what I am doing is to bring us back to what the Bible actually says, not what we might presume what the Bible should say between the lines. We can't speak anything into being like God can, because we are not God. We can't heal sick people like Jesus did because we are not God and man like Jesus. We cannot do the signs and wonders like the Apostles, because we are not Apostles of Christ who personally witnessed the resurrection of Christ, and were personally appointed by Him. Sorry to disappoint. :)

Oh, come to think of it, because we are all filled with the Holy Spirit, and 1 Corinthians 12 lists the gifts of the Spirit, which we are encouraged to earnestly seek, the gifts of healing are in the list. This means that some who receive that gift of the Spirit, but the caveat is "Do all speak in tongues? Do all prophesy? Are all Apostles? and by implication, "Do all have the gifts of healing?" It is because the Spirit dispenses the gifts according to His will (not ours). Just desiring a certain gift does not guarantee that we will receive it.

The OP asks, "Jesus' healing ministry, what can I learn?" Well, these are the things I have learned, by just reading the Bible.
 
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jiminpa

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The thought I want to introduce is that the Gospels are historical narrative. They are mainly descriptive in nature, but not necessarily prescriptive - applying directly to us - unless it is clearly stated in the text.

This means that the reference in Matthew that reflects Isaiah 53 refers to Jesus' healing of people as part of His ministry to the Jews. But there is no direct text that says that the reference applies to anyone else other than Jesus. Also, we see the descriptions of how Jesus went about healing sick people, but no prescriptive indication that we will have the same success if we copy Jesus' methods.

There are other examples of descriptive narrative in the Gospels and Acts, and it is assumed by many that they equally apply to us today, even though there are no statements in the text that they should apply to us. What we need to do is to carefully examine the Biblical text to see what it actually says, not what we may think it says.

For example, Jesus made clay out of His saliva and the dust of the ground, put it in blind man's eyes and told him to go wash it off. The man was healed. But there is nothing in the text that says that we can do the same and get the same results.

There are people who believe they can walk on water and control the weather because Jesus did; yet there is no indication in the text that this ability is transferred to us.

We know that Peter, John and Paul had remarkable healing in their ministries, even people rising from the dead, but this is again, descriptive narrative with no indication that ordinary believers can do the same. The ending of Mark where it says that believers can lay hands on the sick and they will recover, is doubtful, and the best manuscripts leave it out, we we can't rely on that reference. Yet in the book of James, the elders of the church are able to lay hands on sick people and expect that the Lord will raise them up. This is an indication that what James says is prescriptive for all church elders, but not necessarily for rank and file believers.

But we can pray to the Lord for healing of sick people, because Philippians 4:5-6, about making our requests, with thanksgiving, known to God is prescriptive for all believers. The verse, "The effectual fervent prayers of a righteous man avail much" is also prescriptive for all believers. But a text prescribing that ordinary believers who are not church elders can minister healing outside of the local church environment, is hard to find. This is probably the reason why many who are not church elders running around laying hands on sick people, commanding healing are not successful.

Just in case some doubt, I am a Reformed Restorationist Charismatic in my theology, and firmly believes that God does heal today. But God is sovereign and heals a sick person when He decides to. He is in control of it, not us. We can ask Him to heal someone, but we can't command it. We can't minister healing in the same way that Jesus did, because we are not Jesus. There is a Word-Faith teaching that we can be "little gods" and be the same as Jesus. They teach that Jesus was not divine before His resurrection and was just a normal human filled with the Holy Spirit. This is actually the Arian heresy condemned by the early church. But the Word-Faith people say that because Jesus was an ordinary person empowered by the Holy Spirit, we can be just like Him, because we are just ordinary people empowered by the Holy Spirit. But this is a false teaching based on heresy.

In summary, what I am doing is to bring us back to what the Bible actually says, not what we might presume what the Bible should say between the lines. We can't speak anything into being like God can, because we are not God. We can't heal sick people like Jesus did because we are not God and man like Jesus. We cannot do the signs and wonders like the Apostles, because we are not Apostles of Christ who personally witnessed the resurrection of Christ, and were personally appointed by Him. Sorry to disappoint. :)

Oh, come to think of it, because we are all filled with the Holy Spirit, and 1 Corinthians 12 lists the gifts of the Spirit, which we are encouraged to earnestly seek, the gifts of healing are in the list. This means that some who receive that gift of the Spirit, but the caveat is "Do all speak in tongues? Do all prophesy? Are all Apostles? and by implication, "Do all have the gifts of healing?" It is because the Spirit dispenses the gifts according to His will (not ours). Just desiring a certain gift does not guarantee that we will receive it.

The OP asks, "Jesus' healing ministry, what can I learn?" Well, these are the things I have learned, by just reading the Bible.
It sounds like you are looking for loopholes in scripture with that approach. I understand that not all scripture is meant to be followed, (I think we all do), such as the accounts of Judas hanging himself, but reducing the Gospels and Acts to nice historical stories for our reading pleasure is an excuse to not obey God's word. You may even have some small argument if Jesus hadn't explicitly said that His followers would do the works that He did and greater, but He did say it, so that excuse falls flat.
 
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It sounds like you are looking for loopholes in scripture with that approach. I understand that not all scripture is meant to be followed, (I think we all do), such as the accounts of Judas hanging himself, but reducing the Gospels and Acts to nice historical texts is an excuse to not obey God's word. You may even have some small argument if Jesus hadn't explicitly said that His followers would do the works that He did and greater, but He did say that.
The elephant in the room is that although there is plenty of motivating talk and speech making about doing the works of Jesus and even greater works, that's all there is. We don't see much demonstration of those works. If the promises of God are yea and amen and His Word is truth, then the fault is not on His side but on ours. If God's Word promises healing for those who come to Jesus and people don't get healed, and the fault is not God's because He doesn't lie, then where does the fault lie?
 
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jiminpa

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The elephant in the room is that although there is plenty of motivating talk and speech making about doing the works of Jesus and even greater works, that's all there is. We don't see much demonstration of those works. If the promises of God are yea and amen and His Word is truth, then the fault is not on His side but on ours. If God's Word promises healing for those who come to Jesus and people don't get healed, and the fault is not God's because He doesn't lie, then where does the fault lie?
On the centuries of systemic unbelief in those who claim to be followers of Jesus, but are no more spiritually minded than the world, and teach their unbelief to justify being teachers lacking in fruit. In the fact that the religious experts were the ones to begin the shouts of "crucify" and they likely would still be, if the time table was today. In the philosophy of the words I'm quoting that says, because I don't see it God must not want to do it, that are the justification for the system unbelief.

The elephant in the room is that those that want to be counted as the body of Christ don't really believe, and the religious leaders still have a vested interest in teaching unbelief and crushing those who would step out of line in faith.

Our disobedience does not negate the truth of God's word. It is an indictment on us, to be repented of.
 
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On the centuries of systemic unbelief in those who claim to be followers of Jesus, but are no more spiritually minded than the world, and teach their unbelief to justify being teachers lacking in fruit. In the fact that the religious experts were the ones to begin the shouts of "crucify" and they likely would still be, if the time table was today. In the philosophy of the words I'm quoting that says, because I don't see it God must not want to do it, that are the justification for the system unbelief.

The elephant in the room is that those that want to be counted as the body of Christ don't really believe, and the religious leaders still have a vested interest in teaching unbelief and crushing those who would step out of line in faith.

Our disobedience does not negate the truth of God's word. It is an indictment on us, to be repented of.
We are certainly on the same page there! :)
 
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ARBITER01

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The elephant in the room is that although there is plenty of motivating talk and speech making about doing the works of Jesus and even greater works, that's all there is. We don't see much demonstration of those works. If the promises of God are yea and amen and His Word is truth, then the fault is not on His side but on ours. If God's Word promises healing for those who come to Jesus and people don't get healed, and the fault is not God's because He doesn't lie, then where does the fault lie?

You're a broken record Oscarr, and you're trying to convince the wrong crowd.
 
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You're a broken record Oscarr, and you're trying to convince the wrong crowd.
When the word of God came to Ezekiel, he told God that no one would listen to him. The Lord responded for him to speak the word anyway regardless of whether the people listened to him or not. He was to be a watchman. If a watchman sees danger coming and warns the people and they don't listen to him, then their blood is on their own hands. But if the watchman sees danger coming and does not warn the people, their blood is on his hands.

A good Gospel watchman warns other believers of the dangers of being deceived by false teaching and prophecy. Many are being deceived by such teaching as "if you believe hard enought, it will happen", and "God can do only what we give Him permission to do", "You can blow Covid-19 away from you with the breath of God through you", "If you empty your bank account as a faith seed offering, God will heal you and make you prosperous", "you can be a god, equal to God Almighty", "Every prophecy you hear is true and you should take it as the word of God if the prophet says it is".

If the Gospel watchman warns the people about these false teachings and they don't listen, then if they fall into deception, their blood is on their own hands. But if the Gospel watchman doesn't warn the people, then the blood of the people is on his hands.

Therefore, I am telling the people about the dangers of being deceived by the false teachers and prophets, and if, as you say, no one is listening, then all those who read my posts and ignore them, and then fall into the quicksand of deception through adopting corruptive teaching, then their blood is on their hands and not mine, because I have been a faithful watchman.
 
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ARBITER01

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When the word of God came to Ezekiel, he told God that no one would listen to him. The Lord responded for him to speak the word anyway regardless of whether the people listened to him or not. He was to be a watchman. If a watchman sees danger coming and warns the people and they don't listen to him, then their blood is on their own hands. But if the watchman sees danger coming and does not warn the people, their blood is on his hands.

A good Gospel watchman warns other believers of the dangers of being deceived by false teaching and prophecy. Many are being deceived by such teaching as "if you believe hard enought, it will happen", and "God can do only what we give Him permission to do", "You can blow Covid-19 away from you with the breath of God through you", "If you empty your bank account as a faith seed offering, God will heal you and make you prosperous", "you can be a god, equal to God Almighty", "Every prophecy you hear is true and you should take it as the word of God if the prophet says it is".

If the Gospel watchman warns the people about these false teachings and they don't listen, then if they fall into deception, their blood is on their own hands. But if the Gospel watchman doesn't warn the people, then the blood of the people is on his hands.

Therefore, I am telling the people about the dangers of being deceived by the false teachers and prophets, and if, as you say, no one is listening, then all those who read my posts and ignore them, and then fall into the quicksand of deception through adopting corruptive teaching, then their blood is on their hands and not mine, because I have been a faithful watchman.

Lol,... Oscarr,... we are not the ones making predictions,... go to youtube and warn them, not us.
 
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Lol,... Oscarr,... we are not the ones making predictions,... go to youtube and warn them, not us.
What you don't realise is the silent majority who read these threads, and if some read my posts and save themselves from deception by avoiding the false teaching and prophecies, then my posts are justified, even though you don't agree with them. I would rather please God than man, and so I don't post so that you will agree with me. Whether you agree or not is inconsequential to me. The Holy Spirit, who speaks to me through the written Scriptures assures me that I am speaking the truth, and that is all that matters. If your inner voice of what you believe is the Holy Spirit is telling you something contrary, then that is your affair, and not mine.
 
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ARBITER01

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What you don't realise is the silent majority who read these threads, and if some read my posts and save themselves from deception by avoiding the false teaching and prophecies, then my posts are justified, even though you don't agree with them. I would rather please God than man, and so I don't post so that you will agree with me. Whether you agree or not is inconsequential to me. The Holy Spirit, who speaks to me through the written Scriptures assures me that I am speaking the truth, and that is all that matters. If your inner voice of what you believe is the Holy Spirit is telling you something contrary, then that is your affair, and not mine.

You're speaking to the wrong audience,... have some spine and go confront those youtube prophets you so despise.
 
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You're speaking to the wrong audience,... have some spine and go confront those youtube prophets you so despise.
Thanks for sharing that with me.
Actually Justin Peters does a better job at that than I could. He lives in the U.S. and so he can confront them personally, which he has on occasion.

My wife, concerning driving on the motorway, gets me to drive, because why should she have to bark when she has a dog to bark for her? Going by that extra-Biblical philosophy, I can get Justin, Steve Kozar, and Chris Rosebrough to do the "barking" for me.

Actually, if I had encountered an excellent Bible teacher like Chris Rosebrough when I was 19 years of age in 1966, I might have become a Confessional Lutheran instead of an AOG Pentecostal!
 
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mourningdove~

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What you don't realise is the silent majority who read these threads, and if some read my posts and save themselves from deception by avoiding the false teaching and prophecies, then my posts are justified, even though you don't agree with them. I would rather please God than man, and so I don't post so that you will agree with me. Whether you agree or not is inconsequential to me. The Holy Spirit, who speaks to me through the written Scriptures assures me that I am speaking the truth, and that is all that matters. If your inner voice of what you believe is the Holy Spirit is telling you something contrary, then that is your affair, and not mine.

Thank you for explaining what your intention is, in participating in these kinds of threads in the way that you do. Is helpful to know what you are attempting to do ...
 
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