Jesus died for our sins

[shadow2]

I posted this in intros but I was told it would be better to post it here!

I'm wondering, what does 'Jesus died for our sins' mean? I hear that as a common line, though I don't understand it. How does him getting crucified and suffering have anything to do with us sinning? I don't really see the logical connection here.

Thanks!

 

[Tree of Life]

@doubtingmerle Posted a very similar thread, so I will simply copy and paste my response to him here. His question was worded differently - "What does it mean to say that we have been purchased by Jesus' blood?" My response:

The Greek verb behind purchase carries the sense of redeem. Understood within the context of Biblical literature, this means to secure release from an obligation or penalty. The idea is that Jesus released people from the penalty of the Law by suffering the penalty in their place. All of humanity is under the God's covenant curse because of sin, but Jesus purchased a group of people out from under this curse by suffering the curse in their place. This group is no longer liable to the curse because of the blood of Jesus and now belong to God in a redemptive sense. Jesus' oblation is an offering to God. So yes, it is a payment (metaphorically speaking) to God which makes up for all the sins of Jesus' people.

There are many biblical concepts and contexts that you have to understand for this to make sense. Such as:

1. Covenant
2. Covenant blessings and curses
3. Federal headship
4. Sin
5. God's holiness

This is why Christianity is a worldview. It only makes sense when taken altogether. Trying to understand the atonement in the setting of a post-enlightenment, modern, or post-modern worldview will be more difficult.

 

[redleghunter]

I posted this in intros but I was told it would be better to post it here!

I'm wondering, what does 'Jesus died for our sins' mean? I hear that as a common line, though I don't understand it. How does him getting crucified and suffering have anything to do with us sinning? I don't really see the logical connection here.

Thanks!

How much of the New Testament have you committed to reading?

Reading the entire book of Romans would be beneficial. Here is a primer:

Colossians 1:20


Acts of the Apostles 20:28


Ephesians 1:7


Hebrews 9:14


Hebrews 9:22


1 John 1:7


Hebrews 10:19


Hebrews 13:12


Leviticus 17:11


Luke 22:20


Matthew 26:28


Revelation 1:5


Revelation 7:14


Revelation 12:11


Romans 5:9


Romans 3:24-25


1 Peter 1:18-19


1 Corinthians 11:24-30

 

[shadow2]

How much of the New Testament have you committed to reading?

None at all. I've never read anything in the bible actually, it makes no sense to me.

 

[redleghunter]

None at all. I've never read anything in the bible actually, it makes no sense to me.

Romans is a logical dissertation on mankind's fallen nature and the power of the Gospel to deliver us.

You can start here:

Romans 1 NASB

 

[topher694]

I posted this in intros but I was told it would be better to post it here!

I'm wondering, what does 'Jesus died for our sins' mean? I hear that as a common line, though I don't understand it. How does him getting crucified and suffering have anything to do with us sinning? I don't really see the logical connection here.

Thanks!

Super simple version:

The penalty God set up for the atonement (forgiveness) of sin is the shedding of blood (sacrifice). This is why in the old testament you see the practice of sacrificing animals for the forgiveness of sin. Part of the sacrifice was that you did not just pick your smallest weakest animal (could be different kinds), but you picked your best so that it was truly a sacrifice to you.

Enter Jesus. "Lamb" of God, he was not just best, but he was perfect (without sin). He allowed Himself to be sacrificed on the cross not just for one sin, but for all sin for all time for whoever was willing to receive it.

There's lots of layers to it and explanations behind why God did it all this way, but that's the basic idea.

 

[Tempura]

Sacrifice. He is the ultimate sacrificial lamb. No more should the people give "sin offerings" or sacrifices with rituals, in order to atone themselves. He took the penalty on our behalf. Our sins were punished in His body. He died, but He lives, the first-born of resurrection, and we can have tremendous hope in His name. Read the gospels, you will understand as the spirit will guide you little by little. Like someone already said, there are so many things behind it and many revelations in it, but the basic idea is there for everyone.

 

[Halbhh]

I posted this in intros but I was told it would be better to post it here!

I'm wondering, what does 'Jesus died for our sins' mean? I hear that as a common line, though I don't understand it. How does him getting crucified and suffering have anything to do with us sinning? I don't really see the logical connection here.

Thanks!

You may get very involved theological answers, and I bet some wouldn't make much sense (at first). I'll try to answer instead in some parts of how I learned more about this myself, in my own way of thinking of it over time, and that will only address part of it. First, consider Gandhi, or Martin Luther King Jr. -- could they have had so much influence to change people if they had merely been violent revolutionaries? They had great effect because they said truths and stayed peaceful. In part, it's because they stayed peaceful even when attacked that they had so much influence, and swayed minds very far away, among people who never saw them, and only even read their words (for some). And because they kept in integrity, so that the truths they said were lived out. Now, if you read the accounts of Jesus, you see that also, and that's one good piece to think on some. By living in perfect integrity, Jesus has changed the world very powerfully, because He has changed individual minds. But there is more, deeper, and you begin to get that as you read/hear the amazing words Jesus said. Consider a little further Martin Luther King Jr. -- when he died, killed for his words, for the things he was saying....it forced us also to face our own shortcomings vis-a-vis those words. What if, sensing the gathering threat (as King did we can see in one speech), he decided to just bow out, and say some less true stuff and say some pandering stuff like: "Maybe I was too idealistic, and you know, I'm just hoping one day things will be better."

But he didn't.

Jesus spoke the truth, even when attacked in clear threat, and even when being under direct threat of execution, and without striking back, and because he experienced the weight of our evil, without ever failing to love and say truth, we are profoundly challenged, and also those who pay attention are changed. More, if you hear his words, the change goes deeper and more profound, and it will be so good that you'd never want to go back in time to another place previous in life where you'd not had heard them.

 

[shadow2]

@doubtingmerle Posted a very similar thread, so I will simply copy and paste my response to him here. His question was worded differently - "What does it mean to say that we have been purchased by Jesus' blood?" My response:

The Greek verb behind purchase carries the sense of redeem. Understood within the context of Biblical literature, this means to secure release from an obligation or penalty. The idea is that Jesus released people from the penalty of the Law by suffering the penalty in their place. All of humanity is under the God's covenant curse because of sin, but Jesus purchased a group of people out from under this curse by suffering the curse in their place. This group is no longer liable to the curse because of the blood of Jesus and now belong to God in a redemptive sense. Jesus' oblation is an offering to God. So yes, it is a payment (metaphorically speaking) to God which makes up for all the sins of Jesus' people.

There are many biblical concepts and contexts that you have to understand for this to make sense. Such as:

1. Covenant
2. Covenant blessings and curses
3. Federal headship
4. Sin
5. God's holiness

This is why Christianity is a worldview. It only makes sense when taken altogether. Trying to understand the atonement in the setting of a post-enlightenment, modern, or post-modern worldview will be more difficult.

Cool, thanks for the explanation. Though I didn't understand "The idea is that Jesus released people from the penalty of the Law by suffering the penalty in their place. All of humanity is under the God's covenant curse because of sin". Why should everyone be suffering in the first place because of sin?

You're right that I'm probably missing context. Well, got to dive in somewhere!

 

[Tree of Life]

Cool, thanks for the explanation. Though I didn't understand "The idea is that Jesus released people from the penalty of the Law by suffering the penalty in their place. All of humanity is under the God's covenant curse because of sin". Why should everyone be suffering in the first place because of sin?

God curses sin. To put it another way, God deprives his good blessings from sinners in order to chastise them for their sins or in order to judge them for their sins. All suffering comes from God's curse of sin. Do you understand the Christian concept of sin?

You're right that I'm probably missing context. Well, got to dive in somewhere!

Indeed! This is a good place to start. Christianity is a meta narrative and the Bible is one big story. The death of Christ is the climax of the story (or at least the first climax). So in order to understand it you also have to understand the exposition and rising action (Old Testament).

 

[HTacianas]

I posted this in intros but I was told it would be better to post it here!

I'm wondering, what does 'Jesus died for our sins' mean? I hear that as a common line, though I don't understand it. How does him getting crucified and suffering have anything to do with us sinning? I don't really see the logical connection here.

Thanks!

Judaism was founded on Abraham's promise to God that he would sacrifice his son isaac on an altar.

"Sin" requires the death of the sinner. That is God's law. However, God allows man to substitute another life, the life of an animal, in the place of a man's death. It's much like secular law where some crime is punishable by imprisonment, but the law may allow payment of a fine in the place of imprisonment.

In the case of Abraham and Isaac, it was God's plan that if Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son for God, God would be willing to sacrifice His own Son for Abraham. This is "the mystery of Christ". In God's time, he sent his own son to be the propitiation for the sins of mankind. Anyone accepting that sacrifice and turning from sin is considered to have atoned for their past sins.

So we say Jesus died for our sins so that God will consider us righteous according to the promise to Abraham.

 

[shadow2]

Super simple version:

The penalty God set up for the atonement (forgiveness) of sin is the shedding of blood (sacrifice). This is why in the old testament you see the practice of sacrificing animals for the forgiveness of sin. Part of the sacrifice was that you did not just pick your smallest weakest animal (could be different kinds), but you picked your best so that it was truly a sacrifice to you.

That seems counter-intuitive... why does more blood atone for sins? Sounds like animal abuse. Or is this just a metaphor from the days when livestock was a prevalent and well understood commodity such that the loss of the stronger animal represents an indirect form of payment for wrongs committed against others?

 

[Tree of Life]

For the record, I believe that if you labor to understand three concepts then you will understand the Christian faith. This may be worth considering as you try to wrap your mind around Christianity. Try to get to the bottom of the Christian view on these three things:

1. Creation
2. Sin
3. Grace

If you understand what these ideas mean from a Biblical perspective, you've got it all.

 

[topher694]

That seems counter-intuitive... why does more blood atone for sins? Sounds like animal abuse. Or is this just a metaphor from the days when livestock was a prevalent and well understood commodity such that the loss of the stronger animal represents an indirect form of payment for wrongs committed against others?

The payment aspect is definitely a part of it, but the blood is important. The Bible actually says that this doesn't make sense to the world, but to those who believe it is freedom... as I said many layers.

The blood is important because the penalty for sin is death, and blood represents life. It seems harsh, I know, but it is actually mercy when you look at it with an eternal perspective. We (through Adam) were created without sin, when sin entered the world it ruined everything. Rather than leave us in a fallen state for eternity, death entered the world and created the pathway for redemption.

 

[shadow2]

God curses sin. To put it another way, God deprives his good blessings from sinners in order to chastise them for their sins or in order to judge them for their sins. All suffering comes from God's curse of sin. Do you understand the Christian concept of sin?

I don't know. My understanding of sin is that it is a concept created as a method of social control, such that the fear of punishment for sins prevents people from harming one another even when they otherwise might. I look at the origins of religion, and the time when it was most influential, as being one where baseline morality was not well understood or tangibly enforceable among a largely poor and uneducated populous. So in that sense I see it as an accepted standard of what is wrong in Christian society.

 

[Tree of Life]

I don't know. My understanding of sin is that it is a concept created as a method of social control, such that the fear of punishment for sins prevents people from harming one another even when they otherwise might. I look at the origins of religion, and the time when it was most influential, as being one where baseline morality was not well understood or tangibly enforceable among a largely poor and uneducated populous. So in that sense I see it as an accepted standard of what is wrong in Christian society.

That may be your concept of sin but that is not the Christian concept of sin. If you don't understand what Christians mean by "sin" then the cross won't make much sense to you.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Christ died for the sins of the world because there was no other way for mankind to be saved. Before Christ died God was angry at humanity for the sins of mankind. So much so that when Christ was hanging on the cross God took out all of his wrath on Christ. This doesn't explain though. What appeased Christ's wrath since Christ was also God and probably had wrath for our sins as well. Christ couldn't have taken out all of his wrath onto himself. That I don't really have an explanation for. But anyway because Jesus was God in the flesh and lived a sinless life and was essentially immortal his death had infinite value to God. So now when someone comes to Christ for salvation God sees Christs righteousness in us. So it is like we too were born perfect like Christ was.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I posted this in intros but I was told it would be better to post it here!

I'm wondering, what does 'Jesus died for our sins' mean? I hear that as a common line, though I don't understand it. How does him getting crucified and suffering have anything to do with us sinning? I don't really see the logical connection here.

Thanks!

I have attached my Ebook for your reading pleasure.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I posted this in intros but I was told it would be better to post it here!

I'm wondering, what does 'Jesus died for our sins' mean? I hear that as a common line, though I don't understand it. How does him getting crucified and suffering have anything to do with us sinning? I don't really see the logical connection here.

Thanks!

Substitute. His righteousness imputed to us. Our sin put upon him --in fact, one place says he was made sin for us-- and he paid the penalty (death) for our sin.

 

[Not David]

@shadow2 I believe Jesus died to liberate us from death and sin which is called the Christus Victor theory. It is different than the Catholic Satisfaction theory or the Protestant Penal Substitution.

If you have more questions about it you can ask in TAW (The Orthodox Forum)
The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox