MariaRegina
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Jesus didn't institute a church
- Thread starter Uphill Battle
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![]RiSeN[](/data/avatars/m/107/107704.jpg?1431539488){kind=avatar}
]RiSeN[
Come, be his follower!
Jesus' ministry was to declare the good news of God's kingdom. The instrument in bringing about the vindication of God's name. It is a heavenly kingdom of which Jesus is now king. And there is an eartly portion of that kingdom. Jesus said we could identify his subjects;
(John
According to Jesus' words as recorded in the bible any religion/denomination which participates in politics/nationalism or supports/condones war/bloodshed is not part of God's kingdom.
(John
13:35) . . .By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.
(John
18:36) . . .Jesus answered: My kingdom is no part of this world. . .
According to Jesus' words as recorded in the bible any religion/denomination which participates in politics/nationalism or supports/condones war/bloodshed is not part of God's kingdom.
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ivebeenshown
Expert invisible poster and thread killer
Because they call the living God the pillar and ground of the truth. Christ is the true vine, not the church. The LORD is the Shepherd, not the church.
1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar
and ground of the truth.
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ivebeenshown
Expert invisible poster and thread killer
I didn't mean to say there is no church. I was just pointing out that God Himself is the pillar and ground of truth. I believe the church is the body composed of all members who have the Spirit in them.
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this is not relevant because it ignores what this thread is about. This thread is not saying there should be no church. They are however talking against what man has turned church into meaning these days rather than what God planned the church to be.
The church is (always has and always will be) made up of people. It is not a brick or wood building.
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groktruth
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Without a vision, the people perish. Without a vision for the church, the seed of the gospel is unfruitful. Birds come, or sun burns, or the cares of the world destroy. The "root" mentioned by Jesus is none other than a commitment or baptism into His vision for a "house of prayer," His "temple" which is what we are when two or more are gathered correctly in His name.
His vision for His church is clearly described in scripture, and almost universally ignored. It is actually holy, and therefore not to be given to dogs; a pearl not appropriate to be shared with swine. What is called "a church" is a far cry from the Lord's vision, is actually, if you want to know, bundles of tares. a gathering of false believers.
If you want the seed of the gospel to bear fruit in your life, 30. 60, or 100 fold, you must understand His vision for the church. Read the parable of the sower! Pray for this vision, and buy the truth, especially instruction in wisdom. Get a mentor, someone to sit down with you one-on-one, eye-to-eye, who will commit to a Hebrews 13:17 relationship with you. Press into faith for "all authority in heaven and earth has been given to " Jesus. Learn to know His voice, let it build faith (from hearing), and see how being a part of His church makes hearing Him much richer.
So few! So very few! Thus we work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
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CryptoLutheran
Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman
It's worth pointing out that the term "church" for the building where the Church gathers to worship and receive the Sacraments is more-or-less a peculiarity of our language (as well as some others).
For example, in English the full name for the ancient church of Hagia Sophia is "The Church of the Holy Wisdom of God"; in Greek, however, it's called the Naos not the Ekklesia. Naos being the Greek word for "temple". In fact our English word "church", ultimately stems from the Germanization of the Greek word kyriake(oika), "Lord's(house)"--kyriake (Greek)->kirika (Germanic)-->cirice (Old English); a similar transition entered into the Slavic languages, as shown in the Russian word tserkov.
What's important to understand is that what makes a church a church is the Liturgy, what the people of God do when gathered together. There can be no ekklesia unless they are gathered. Much has been said about ekklesia meaning "called out", and to be sure that's what it means, but it specifically refers to a gathering, a community or assembly. The Athenian ekklesia were all the free citizens of Athens, called out of the walls of the city onto a hill where Athenian democracy actually happened.
You (singular) are not the Church, and neither am I. We are the Church only in communion--koinonia--together in Christ. Not just in some abstract principle, but in the concrete reality of our gathering together in liturgy to receive Word and Sacrament.
Thus an attempt at dismissing "church buildings" and any attempt to personalize or privatize the Church into "my personal relationship with Jesus" is a fool's errand and denies the reality of the Church in favor of individualism.
As Bonhoeffer says, Christ indeed calls each of us individually, but we are each called into community.
There can be no Christianity without the community of faith, those gathered around Word and Sacrament, apart from this there is no Church.
-CryptoLutheran
For example, in English the full name for the ancient church of Hagia Sophia is "The Church of the Holy Wisdom of God"; in Greek, however, it's called the Naos not the Ekklesia. Naos being the Greek word for "temple". In fact our English word "church", ultimately stems from the Germanization of the Greek word kyriake(oika), "Lord's(house)"--kyriake (Greek)->kirika (Germanic)-->cirice (Old English); a similar transition entered into the Slavic languages, as shown in the Russian word tserkov.
What's important to understand is that what makes a church a church is the Liturgy, what the people of God do when gathered together. There can be no ekklesia unless they are gathered. Much has been said about ekklesia meaning "called out", and to be sure that's what it means, but it specifically refers to a gathering, a community or assembly. The Athenian ekklesia were all the free citizens of Athens, called out of the walls of the city onto a hill where Athenian democracy actually happened.
You (singular) are not the Church, and neither am I. We are the Church only in communion--koinonia--together in Christ. Not just in some abstract principle, but in the concrete reality of our gathering together in liturgy to receive Word and Sacrament.
Thus an attempt at dismissing "church buildings" and any attempt to personalize or privatize the Church into "my personal relationship with Jesus" is a fool's errand and denies the reality of the Church in favor of individualism.
As Bonhoeffer says, Christ indeed calls each of us individually, but we are each called into community.
There can be no Christianity without the community of faith, those gathered around Word and Sacrament, apart from this there is no Church.
-CryptoLutheran
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groktruth
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JESUS is alive and well, and living in Corpus Christi, "together" you and I, "We are the Church" !!!
Jesus is building His church out of those who have obeyed the true gospel. What is commanded in the true gospel is that we become disciples, with teachers or masters, committed to an agenda or course of study, involving the name of the Father (the law and the prophets), the name of the Son {His commandments to His original 12} and the name of the Spirit {the admonitions of the Spirit as we walk humbly with the Lord.} The backbone of this study, according to Jesus, are the commandments that He gave the 12 (e.g. the commands of Christ, as formulated by Bill Gothard). Not "keeping" these commandments, and claiming to be saved, identifies the speaker as a liar, and unsaved. Not to be included in the true church.
One is "in the church" when they have, or are praying for, an authoritative relationship (a "joint") with a teacher/master who is teaching these commandments.
Not many meet this criterion, and so the church is dimly formed. But even one individual praying fervently for someone to submit to (Hebrews 13:17}, in the learning of the commandments of Christ, is greatly empowered to do much of the good works of the church.
I am so praying. Am I alone?
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groktruth
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Anyway, the meaning of "Corpus Christi" is "the body of Christ", and to me, that means the church !!!
JESUS
Know much about the work of Disciple House in Corpus Christi?
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groktruth
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Jesus says that He and I are one.
"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as our Father in heaven is perfect." -Matthew 5:48
Yes, my name is also Jesus, no, I am not the "Messiah", "The Son of God", but one thing I know, I am "a son of God" !!!
JESUS
Since we are dead, yet we live, yet not us but Christ lives in us, what more can we hope for from the second coming? And He said that the works He did, we would do, and greater works as well. He had better be alive and doing much in Corpus, working in and through "you.!"
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The only bit I personally disagree with is the "church buildings" are not neccesary. One can just as easily meet in a persons home or community hall or park. location is not relevant it is the gathering of believers as you said that is important. Or did I misunderstand what you meant?
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groktruth
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Yes, about Bill Gothard, I was at his seminar in Houston, Tx, over 28 years ago. What he confirmed was that I was very much like Jesus in character.
IN HIS NAME,
JESUS
It is not about Bill Gothard. It is about the commands of christ. "Believers" who "keep" them (study, learn, meditate over, ask God about, then listen and record what He says) are believers. "Believers" who don't are "liars and the truth is not in them." They will have their part in the lake of fire, and believers are instructed to avoid them.
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