Jesus did not do away with the law in Mat 5:17

[BelieveItOarKnot]

That is what the serpent convinced Eve of. It wasn't true then, and it still isn't true.

I don't know what that has to do with my observation, besides the fact that a lot of people resort to that statement when the security of their positions are threatened by the reality of scriptures to the contrary

I honestly don't know how anyone can delude themselves into sinlessness, unless of course Mark 4:15 is real, and that IS the case

 

[Studyman]

I don't know what that has to do with my observation, besides the fact that a lot of people resort to that statement when the security of their positions are threatened by the reality of scriptures to the contrary

You preach a lot of things, yet you refuse to actually discuss what is written.

I honestly don't know how anyone can delude themselves into sinlessness, unless of course Mark 4:15 is real, and that IS the case

Mark 15: 15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

What the Scriptures show, is that "satan" is disguised as an Apostle of Christ, a man who calls Jesus Lord, Lord, but refuses to "yield themselves" servants to obey God as Paul teaches.

When Jesus tells men to "Go and sin no more". You, and other religious men of this world, that "profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate", immediately tells this man they can never overcome sin. That they cannot trust God, or His Son who this God sent, to direct our footsteps.

You are a perfect representative of what Jesus speaks to here. I can't believe you actually used this scripture. A man "Yields himself" a servant to obey God as Paul teaches, and immediately you are there to pluck the Word of God right out of him.

It is for this reason that I post how this world's self-proclaimed "ministers of righteousness" twist Paul's word to justify rejection and dismissal of God's Righteous judgments.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

You preach a lot of things, yet you refuse to actually discuss what is written.

Already said I'm more than familiar with the "watch me justify myself" methodologies. I just don't think that's the whole Word enchilada

IF "man" is to live by every Word of God, THEN the challenge is on the side of the Word that we don't care to heed or listen to or apply personally

What the Scriptures show, is that "satan" is disguised as an Apostle of Christ, a man who calls Jesus Lord, Lord, but refuses to "yield themselves" servants to obey God as Paul teaches.

And that is just another example of laying the bad stuff on some other guy and denying that Word applies to you. I rest my case

You are a perfect representative of what Jesus speaks to here. I can't believe you actually used this scripture. A man "Yields himself" a servant to obey God as Paul teaches, and immediately you are there to pluck the Word of God right out of him.
It is for this reason that I post how this world's self-proclaimed "ministers of righteousness" twist Paul's word to justify rejection and dismissal of God's Righteous judgments.

I've already stated the obvious that I think any reasonable believer can agree with. That I am a present tense sinner, even if not externally acting on sin. Even the mere thoughts of anti-law proves it solidly to me, such as Matt. 5:28 that most men struggle with, among other types of Satanic attacks. And yes, "my sin" is in fact "of the devil," just as 1 John 3:8 and Mark 4:15 propose. I have no issues with this truthful confession. How bout you? Does it sound like self justification to you? Really?

It's the entire basis for me to "hate my own life" in order to be a disciple, ala Luke 14:26. Without hating the evil present within me I don't think it's even possible to be a disciple.

In fact I think positions that deny these matters are engaging in lying hypocrisy.

I have zero issues with every jot and tittle of the law being fully active and totally against the evil within me and everyone else

Why is it when we read that a good tree only produces good fruit and a bad tree evil fruit and we always and only think we always and only produce good fruit? I'd simply call that one sided spiritual blindness and I'm really not interesting in that approach to God in Christ. I'd rather be honest and let the chips fall where they may, as He Wills.

I also know for a fact that the Will of God is for every natural man to terminate, because of sin, with the sole exception being His Son

I don't worship other sinless people and consider such statements the epitome of the deceptions of Satan

 

[Studyman]

Already said I'm more than familiar with the "watch me justify myself" methodologies. I just don't think that's the whole Word enchilada

IF "man" is to live by every Word of God, THEN the challenge is on the side of the Word that we don't care to heed or listen to or apply personally

Yes, you seem to be an authority on self-justification, and you use this tactic as someone who has perfected the practice.

For me there is no longer an "IF". And God is not a Liar, in my view. The foundation of your posts implies that God can't be trusted, nor can His Son, when they both say "Go and Sin no more". You are quite clear that, like Calvinism, you believe this instruction given by God is not possible for men to obey. And to justify your religious philosophy, you point out your own transgressions as if they are proof that God cannot be trusted.

Now this isn't your religious philosophy, taught to you through study of the Holy scriptures, this is Calvinism like philosophy, or some other popular religious philosophy of this world that you have adopted. Remember, what promoted you to reply to me was the following sentence that I posted.

"I agree there is a diversity of views, like the "other voices" in the Garden with Eve. But there is only ONE God. Shouldn't men "Yield themselves" servants to obey Him?"

And I posted these words based on the teaching of Paul.

Rom. 6: 12 "Let not sin" therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness "unto God".

You immediately accused Paul, and anyone who would take his words seriously as I do, as "Dishonest".

And ever since then, I have "watched you justify your statement".

And that is just another example of laying the bad stuff on some other guy and denying that Word applies to you. I rest my case

You see what I mean? I post undeniable Biblical Truths in Which Paul warns us of who satan is. Truths you know exist. But you must condemn me for posting them, and taking them seriously, even when it was Paul that was warning me. (2 Cor. 11:12-15)

So because I believe Paul spoke from the Spirit of Christ that was in him, you accuse me, and apparently Paul as well, of "laying the bad stuff on some other guy and denying that Word applies to you".

If you know you are doing these things, shame on you. If you don't know, because you don't spend enough time in front of a mirror, then please consider what you are promoting.

I've already stated the obvious that I think any reasonable believer can agree with.

What about the Holy Scriptures? Is it not "reasonable" to expect a true believer to study them "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works"?

And if you don't believe the Scriptures, is it "Christlike" to belittle those who do?

That I am a present tense sinner, even if not externally acting on sin. Even the mere thoughts of anti-law proves it solidly to me, such as Matt. 5:28 that most men struggle with, among other types of Satanic attacks.

This is interesting. So in your religion, it is impossible for you to look at another woman without lusting after her in your heart.

But Paul, Jesus, the Prophets and the God who sent them all, do not share your religious philosophy, according to what is actually written.

How is it then, that you still lust after other women in your heart? Shall men not seek the answer to this question from God's Word?

Consider what is actually written;

James 1: 14 But every man is tempted, "when he is drawn away of his own lust", and enticed. 15 "Then" when lust "hath conceived", (Think about that word) "it bringeth forth sin": and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

I know Calvinists preach that we can't help ourselves. But what does the Bible actually teach? I advocate that men listen to Paul who speaks to the wisdom of Scriptures "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

1 Cor. 10: 12 Wherefore let him that "thinketh he standeth" take heed lest he fall.

13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted "above that ye are able"; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

So then, did God place that Lust in your heart? I don't think so. For me, I harbored these Lusts in my heart "Wherein in time past I walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience". It's there, but it no longer reigns in my mortal body because I look for the escape God has prepared for me when the thought approaches. For one example, I used to go to the beach, and there were nearly naked women all over the place. One escape God gave me that helped, was easy, "don't go to the beach"!

Shall we not look for the escape God has prepared for us in "EVERY" Temptation? And why would God place the escape for me Sir? Would it not be for the purpose of ""Let not sin" therefore reign in your mortal body".

But if a man doesn't "believe" in God's Word, then they don't have the Armor of God, they can't see the escapes God has prepared for them, and sin continues to reign in their mortal body because they reject the very tools God created to help them to "be able to stand against the wiles of the devil".

The result is a man who calls Jesus Lord, Lord, who teaches in His Name, but rejects the Armor of God and let's sin reign in his mortal body, AKA, he "works iniquity".

And yes, "my sin" is in fact "of the devil," just as 1 John 3:8 and Mark 4:15 propose. I have no issues with this truthful confession. How bout you? Does it sound like self justification to you? Really?

Of course you are justifying your sin, just like Eve did. "It was the devil's fault"! Try considering taking the Word of God seriously. For instance, instead of posting one verse to justify your sin, why not consider more Words of Scriptures in search of Biblical Truth, so that you "strive against sin".

7 Little children, let no man "deceive you": he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin "is of the devil"; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the "children of God" are manifest, and the "children of the devil": whosoever "doeth not" righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

You are teaching others that you cannot stop Sin from reigning in your mortal body, that you have no power to "Rule Over" the Lust (Work of the devil) you brought into your own heart, in your misspent youth, just as I and all men did. Ultimately preaching to others that either God's SEED isn't in you, or God's SEED has no power over Sin, implying that Jesus is helpless to destroy the works of the devil in your heart, and God lied when HE said HE prepares an escape for His people, so they don't, "obey sin it in the lusts thereof", as Paul teaches.

I'll continue in another post, as this is important stuff for men to discuss.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Yes, you seem to be an authority on self-justification, and you use this tactic as someone who has perfected the practice.

I say I hate myself because of evil present with me, just as with Paul in Romans 7:17-21, because of sin, evil thoughts, all in conformance with the requirements of a disciple in Luke 14:26 and you call that self justification?

I call it death:

Col. 3:
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

You are teaching others that you cannot stop Sin from reigning in your mortal body

Again that is just you not listening to what's being said. "Reigning" does not equal ERADICATION. Do you understand that in order to REIGN OVER something like sin you have to actually admit having it to REIGN over?

I'd suggest lying hypocrisy is no reign whatsoever.

 

[Studyman]

It's the entire basis for me to "hate my own life" in order to be a disciple, ala Luke 14:26.

First, let's look at what Jesus actually said;

Luke 14: 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

Why would Jesus say this? I think if you read a little more, it becomes clear.

33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you "that forsaketh not all that he hath", he cannot be my disciple.

Jesus Words here are not intended to be used to justify sin, in my view. Rather, that we do not place anything between the Word of God which became Flesh, and us. Not our biological kin, not the religions of this world, the traditions we may have lived by in times past.

The old "man of sin" is to be hated and destroyed, replaced by putting "on the new man, which after God is created "in righteousness and true holiness." And for what purpose? "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not". (1 John 2:1)

Without hating the evil present within me I don't think it's even possible to be a disciple.

But men don't hate darkness, they love darkness. Listen to the Jesus "of the Bible" and try to push out of your mind, the "Other voices" in the garden God placed us in, and the doctrines and judgments they have taught us from our youth.

John 3: 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men "loved darkness" rather than light, "because" their deeds were evil.

This is both you and I, Yes? Or is this Jesus mistaken in your religion. Jesus goes on to explain the 2 kinds of men who love darkness.

20 For everyone that "doeth" evil "hateth the light", neither cometh to the light, "lest his deeds" should be reproved.

These men who love darkness, stay away from "EVERY WORD" of God, AKA, the LIGHT, for the purpose of preserving their darkness. They do this to justify their sins and to preserve and promote their own righteousness and their own religious philosophies. These men "profess to know God", they Call Jesus Lord, Lord, but they protect and preserve their own religious philosophy, their own Judgments, their own righteousness, regardless of what God actually teaches them.

21 But he that "doeth" truth "cometh to the light", "that his deeds" may be made manifest, that they are "wrought in God". (Not the devil)

These men who love darkness, come to "Every Word" of God for the very purpose of exposing the Darkness "they know exists within them".

Once exposed to the Light, the darkness can be destroyed and has no power to reign in our mortal bodies. In this way our darkness is exposed for us little by little, that we "may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil". (This teaching can also be found in the Gospel of Christ, in Ex. 23:30, see for yourself)

I advocate that we become like the 2nd example of men who love darkness, that we might become the children of God.

In fact I think positions that deny these matters are engaging in lying hypocrisy.

I don't believe Jesus, or HIS Father, or Paul is a Liar, nor do I believe they are Hypocrites. I do believe the religions of this world, who profess to know God, but reject His Judgments, Statutes and Commandments, are liars and hypocrites.

instead of seeking justification for committing the same sin over and over and over and over, why not seek the Righteousness of God, and HIS Truth, which can help you "Go and Sin no more"? But as the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches, there is a cost.

I have zero issues with every jot and tittle of the law being fully active and totally against the evil within me and everyone else.

If you were really interested in ridding the evil that is within you, you would fight against it with the Armor and the Sword God gave you. But it seems you have been snared by that seductive and popular religious philosophy, "Come as you are because God loves the Sinner". God doesn't "Love the Sinner" according to His OWN Inspired Words. This is why HE teaches men to "Repent".

Psalms 5: 4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. 5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

I advocate that men listen to Paul's teaching, and "Yield themselves" a servant to obey God. The resulting man is not a servant of sin, as you claim to be now. But as Paul teaches,

Rom. 6: 2 But now being made free from sin, and become "servants to God", ye have your fruit "unto holiness", and the end everlasting life.


Don't listen to the other voices in the garden telling you that you can't "Yield yourself" to God. It wasn't true when the serpent convinced Eve, and it isn't true today.

Why is it when we read that a good tree only produces good fruit and a bad tree evil fruit and we always and only think we always and only produce good fruit?

You are not the only one who doesn't believe in the Jesus "of the Bible" or His Father. One thing is for sure, without belief, AKA "faith", there is no good fruit.

I'd simply call that one sided spiritual blindness and I'm really not interesting in that approach to God in Christ. I'd rather be honest and let the chips fall where they may, as He Wills.

Matt. 7: 22 "Many" will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Ez. 18: 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should "return from his ways", and live?

32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore "turn yourselves", and live ye.

You aren't being honest with yourself at all. I just posted what God Wills according to His Own Words. If you were honest, you would say "I don't believe you" to God. Then your prayer would no longer be, "Have mercy on me, a sinner", but would be instead, "I believe some of your Words, help me in believing your Words that I don't believe".

I also know for a fact that the Will of God is for every natural man to terminate, because of sin, with the sole exception being His Son

And yet, I just posted God's Word which completely contradicts yours. " For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth", saith the Lord GOD: wherefore "turn yourselves", and live ye.

Is this not the Will of God?

I don't worship other sinless people and consider such statements the epitome of the deceptions of Satan

And yet you, a self-prescribed Sinner, "live by" your own religious philosophies, while rejecting the Holiness and Truth of the Holy Spirit Inspired Words of Scripture, as "Dishonest".

I simply advocate that a man places their Faith in the God of the Bible.

James 1: 21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, "which is able to save your souls".

22 But be ye "doers of the word", and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

These Words are not "the deceptions of Satan".

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

First, let's look at what Jesus actually said;

Luke 14: 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

Why would Jesus say this? I think if you read a little more, it becomes clear.

33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you "that forsaketh not all that he hath", he cannot be my disciple.

Jesus Words here are not intended to be used to justify sin, in my view. Rather, that we do not place anything between the Word of God which became Flesh, and us. Not our biological kin, not the religions of this world, the traditions we may have lived by in times past.

The old "man of sin" is to be hated and destroyed, replaced by putting "on the new man, which after God is created "in righteousness and true holiness." And for what purpose? "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not". (1 John 2:1)



But men don't hate darkness, they love darkness. Listen to the Jesus "of the Bible" and try to push out of your mind, the "Other voices" in the garden God placed us in, and the doctrines and judgments they have taught us from our youth.

John 3: 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men "loved darkness" rather than light, "because" their deeds were evil.

This is both you and I, Yes? Or is this Jesus mistaken in your religion. Jesus goes on to explain the 2 kinds of men who love darkness.

20 For everyone that "doeth" evil "hateth the light", neither cometh to the light, "lest his deeds" should be reproved.

These men who love darkness, stay away from "EVERY WORD" of God, AKA, the LIGHT, for the purpose of preserving their darkness. They do this to justify their sins and to preserve and promote their own righteousness and their own religious philosophies. These men "profess to know God", they Call Jesus Lord, Lord, but they protect and preserve their own religious philosophy, their own Judgments, their own righteousness, regardless of what God actually teaches them.

21 But he that "doeth" truth "cometh to the light", "that his deeds" may be made manifest, that they are "wrought in God". (Not the devil)

These men who love darkness, come to "Every Word" of God for the very purpose of exposing the Darkness "they know exists within them".

Once exposed to the Light, the darkness can be destroyed and has no power to reign in our mortal bodies. In this way our darkness is exposed for us little by little, that we "may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil". (This teaching can also be found in the Gospel of Christ, in Ex. 23:30, see for yourself)

I advocate that we become like the 2nd example of men who love darkness, that we might become the children of God.



I don't believe Jesus, or HIS Father, or Paul is a Liar, nor do I believe they are Hypocrites. I do believe the religions of this world, who profess to know God, but reject His Judgments, Statutes and Commandments, are liars and hypocrites.

instead of seeking justification for committing the same sin over and over and over and over, why not seek the Righteousness of God, and HIS Truth, which can help you "Go and Sin no more"? But as the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches, there is a cost.



If you were really interested in ridding the evil that is within you, you would fight against it with the Armor and the Sword God gave you. But it seems you have been snared by that seductive and popular religious philosophy, "Come as you are because God loves the Sinner". God doesn't "Love the Sinner" according to His OWN Inspired Words. This is why HE teaches men to "Repent".

Psalms 5: 4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. 5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

I advocate that men listen to Paul's teaching, and "Yield themselves" a servant to obey God. The resulting man is not a servant of sin, as you claim to be now. But as Paul teaches,

Rom. 6: 2 But now being made free from sin, and become "servants to God", ye have your fruit "unto holiness", and the end everlasting life.


Don't listen to the other voices in the garden telling you that you can't "Yield yourself" to God. It wasn't true when the serpent convinced Eve, and it isn't true today.



You are not the only one who doesn't believe in the Jesus "of the Bible" or His Father. One thing is for sure, without belief, AKA "faith", there is no good fruit.



Matt. 7: 22 "Many" will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Ez. 18: 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should "return from his ways", and live?

32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore "turn yourselves", and live ye.

You aren't being honest with yourself at all. I just posted what God Wills according to His Own Words. If you were honest, you would say "I don't believe you" to God. Then your prayer would no longer be, "Have mercy on me, a sinner", but would be instead, "I believe some of your Words, help me in believing your Words that I don't believe".





And yet, I just posted God's Word which completely contradicts yours. " For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth", saith the Lord GOD: wherefore "turn yourselves", and live ye.

Is this not the Will of God?




And yet you, a self-prescribed Sinner, "live by" your own religious philosophies, while rejecting the Holiness and Truth of the Holy Spirit Inspired Words of Scripture, as "Dishonest".

I simply advocate that a man places their Faith in the God of the Bible.

James 1: 21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, "which is able to save your souls".

22 But be ye "doers of the word", and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

These Words are not "the deceptions of Satan".

You know full well the bottom line with this entire conversation is that your position is that you can, by whatever methods i.e. legal compliance make yourself sinless.

I reject all such one sided notions, as only God Himself in Christ was/is sinless. That's just the way it is

I also consider any positions to the contrary to be in direct conflict with not only the obvious falsehood of such religious fallacies, but a direct conflict with scriptural disclosures.

We all suffer internal temptations, evil lawless thoughts, according to the Word of God. Mark 7:21-23, Matt. 15:18-20

No one is an exception. No one.

And your claims, valiant as you may think they are, never wiped out a Word of Him because His Word is TRUTH

 

[Studyman]

I say I hate myself because of evil present with me, just as with Paul in Romans 7:17-21, because of sin, evil thoughts, all in conformance with the requirements of a disciple in Luke 14:26 and you call that self justification?

I know well the fleshy pull to justify yourself and your every statement. All I'm advocating is that a man considers "all" that is written in search of God's Truth, not just use scriptures to justify themselves. For instance, Paul defined a problem he had before his conversion. And then HE details what he did to save him from this body of death.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

And Paul gives us the answer.

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind "I myself serve the law of God"; but with the flesh the law of sin. New man vs. old man.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who "walk" "not after the flesh", but after the Spirit.

You are calling Paul, and anyone who would follow his instruction, "Dishonest".

I call it death:

Col. 3:
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Again that is just you not listening to what's being said. "Reigning" does not equal ERADICATION.

That's just foolishness. "He that steals. let him steal no more". "SIN" is a "WORK". Lust is a "work". In the interest of truth, please consider.

If I see something I want, and the thought comes into my mind, "Just take it, no one is watching". And in times past, I would have "yielded myself" a servant to obey this voice. But now, having yielded myself a servant to obey God, I would combat this sinful "thought" with the Sword of the Lord, the Word of God. It's no sin to "want" something. But it can be a sin to desire what is not mine. So I have a battle in the war I partake of. And I say;

"That isn't yours". "That's stealing". "That is sin". And I would say "Get behind me satan", for it is written by God, etc. etc.". I would say NO! I am no longer "that guy". The result of this process is the "Thought" is ruled over, and destroyed using the Tools God gave me for this very purpose. The fruit produced was "not Stealing", "not sinning", which is called "righteousness".

So if sin doesn't "reign" in my mortal body, the fruit of sin eradicated. That is the whole point of "Striving against Sin".

Do you understand that in order to REIGN OVER something like sin you have to actually admit having it to REIGN over?

Actually, first a person would have to know what sin is. This is why the Jesus "of the Bible" didn't "do away with" God's Law. And I posted for your review and examination, James 1, where he speaks to this very process. But you completely ignore him, as is your practice. Wouldn't it be better to address and discuss what is actually written, instead of just spending all your time justifying your every word?

I'd suggest lying hypocrisy is no reign whatsoever.

Again, I don't believe Paul, Jesus, His Father or the Prophets HE sent to us are lying hypocrites.

 

[Studyman]

You know full well the bottom line with this entire conversation is that your position is that you can, by whatever methods i.e. legal compliance make yourself sinless.

Again, in your attempt to justify yourself, you are misrepresenting my posts. It is God who said to "Turn yourselves" and live ye, and I posted His Words. I just believe them while you don't, it seems. It was the Jesus "of the bible" who said to me, "Repent" and to "Go and sin no more". I just believe Him, while you don't it seems. It was Paul who said to "Yield myself", a servant to obey God. I just believe him, while you don't it seems.

The bottom line here is that you don't believe what is actually written, choosing instead to adopt this world's religions and their traditions, doctrines and philosophies. Because I believe God and His Inspired Word, I don't "yield myself" a servant to obey the philosophies of this world's religions. This is the foundation of our disagreement.

This is the "bottom line" of this conversation.

I reject all such one sided notions, as only God Himself in Christ was/is sinless. That's just the way it is

Again, in order to deflect away from what is actually written, you must again misrepresent my posts. I never once said I was sinless, nor did I say I have never sinned. I posted and suggested that you read Deut. 23:30. Did you go there?

I also consider any positions to the contrary to be in direct conflict with not only the obvious falsehood of such religious fallacies, but a direct conflict with scriptural disclosures.

I know you don't believe the Scriptures, unless they can be used to justify your specific religion. Why not just be honest and tell us what your posts clearly show. That much God's Word is in direct conflict to your specific religious philosophy, and that much of what God teaches in the Holy scriptures are, according to you, "religious fallacies."

We all suffer internal temptations, evil lawless thoughts, according to the Word of God. Mark 7:21-23, Matt. 15:18-20

But it isn't what goes into the body that defiles a man, it's what comes out of a man, that defiles him, as the Scripture you posted clearly states.

Mark 7: 20 And he said, That which "cometh out of the man", that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things "come from within", and defile the man.

It's not a SIN to be tempted. We all suffer internal temptation. Even the Jesus "of the Bible" suffered internal Temptations. No ONE Human is an exception, NO ONE! Not even Jesus. It's what "we do" in the temptation that matters. As it is written;

Romans 2:6 who will render to each person "according to his deeds":

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed "for his deeds in the body", "according to what he has done", whether good or bad.

1 Peter 1:17 If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to "each one’s work", conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Rev. 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give "every man" according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Psalm 62:12 And lovingkindness is Yours, O Lord, For You recompense a man according to his work.

Colossians 3:25 For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.

No one is an exception. No one.

And your claims, valiant as you may think they are, never wiped out a Word of Him because His Word is TRUTH

Yes, HIS Word, that you have continually ignored, is TRUTH. You are preaching that being tempted is a SIN. Implying that Jesus was a sinner. The TRUTH of God is that men sin because they love darkness. Temptations are there to test our faith, AKA, our belief.

In this (WAY) the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness "is not of God", neither he that loveth not his brother.

Because I love you, I post God's Inspired WORDS.

James 5: 19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Jesus did the same thing, and those who "professed to know God", hated Him for it. He said it would be the same for those who believed in Him.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I just believe them

Do you believe you are sinless?

 

[Studyman]

Do you believe you are sinless?

I understand that you must ignore and deflect away from the Scriptures posted and the questions posed in order to preserve and justify your adopted religion. So, you must try and turn the tables towards me, in order to move away from your adopted religious philosophy.

Nevertheless, for the interest of others reading along, I will play your foolish game for a minute.

I have certainly sinned. And I believe I can't forgive my own sin, therefore, my Sin remains until a power greater than I will remove them.

Am I sinning right now? NO! I don't believe I am Sinning right now. Why would I? Is there Sin in me? God knows, but I assume there is as I have no power to remove them.

Do these truths diminish the Holy Scriptures I posted and you ignored?

The Jesus "of the Bible" tells men too not just "say" the "beam" is in their eye, but to "Remove it" so that they can see clearly to help their brother. Is this another lie that Jesus is promoting, according to your religion, like the one you imply HE told, when HE said to "Go and Sin no more"?

I will ask you another question. "Did God give you power to go back in time, even 10 minutes, and change something, or "DO" anything?"

And another, "Did God give you power to go into the future, even 10 minutes, and change something, or "DO" anything?

And lastly, "Did God give you power to change and "DO" something "Right Now"?

So I will ask the last question, and see if you will answer my questions, as you expect me to answer yours.

Are you sinning "right now"?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I understand that you must ignore and deflect away from the Scriptures posted and the questions posed in order to preserve and justify your adopted religion. So, you must try and turn the tables towards me, in order to move away from your adopted religious philosophy.

No, it's really just a simple question with a simple yes or no answer

If you say yes, then I'd suggest you're honest and we have nothing to engage on the honesty (or not) scale

I've already shared the fact that yes, I'm a present tense sinner at all times, no matter how good I think I might be, just as Paul stated for himself, honestly, in Romans 7:17-21, among other statements such as 1 Tim. 1:15

 

[Studyman]

No, it's really just a simple question with a simple yes or no answer
If you say yes, then I'd suggest you're honest and we have nothing to engage on the honesty (or not) scale

I've already shared the fact that yes, I'm a present tense sinner at all times, no matter how good I think I might be, just as Paul stated for himself, honestly, in Romans 7:17-21, among other statements such as 1 Tim. 1:15

NO, you cannot address what is actually written and you refuse to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". I answered your question honestly, and asked you questions as well, but you refuse to answer them. This is your choice, not something inevitable.

I posted Paul's stated remedy for his dilemma of Romans 7:17-21. But you completely ignored him. You only use the words of scripture that you can somehow twist to justify your continued practice of sinning against God. If you don't know you are doing this, you should now. If you don't care, then perhaps you might think about that.

Jesus came to save Sinners from "SIN", so they could "Go and Sin no more". These are His words, not mine.

All you do is justify your continued rebellion towards God. So when Paul says;

Eph. 2: 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

You refuse to be a part of this group. You are the same as before, "a child of disobedience", only this time you call Jesus Lord, Lord while you sin.

You are free to live as you please, but this is a thread about God's LAWS, which must include what is actually written in the Holy scriptures. "Every Word of God, not just a few sentences a man can use to justify whatever lifestyle he "Yields himself" a servant to obey.

From the very beginning, I have only wanted to have an honest discussion about what is written, and from the beginning, you have avoided the same.

Time to shake the dust.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

NO, you cannot address what is actually written

And your positions take entirely one sided accounts and completely ignore and deny what you don't like to hear.

I'm OK with you holding whatever position you want. Nunamybiz. I just don't think such positions are anything close to being truthful or honest is all.

One might aspire to honesty as a Christian, even if it seems to some to be a personal affront to actually admit we're sinners in need of our Savior, and what we need saving from is the devil

 

[Dan Perez]

Mat 5:17 is the most quoted verse to "prove" that Jesus did away with the law and that believers today are not under the Mosaic moral law in the Old Testament. People today love to proclaim that believers are not under any rules because of God's "grace" and love. Yes, a free pass to sin and ask God for forgiveness and with a snap of God's finger, all is forgiven. Some even claim that believers need not ask forgiveness for any sin because Jesus's death on the cross covered all of our sins, past, present and future.

One again, these false teachings come from the traditions of men and are not found in Scripture.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfill.

As I have stated countless times, any time you read anything in the New Testament, you have to discover the Jewish meaning of what has been written down in our English translations. Scripture wasn't written in English nor did Jesus speak English. Who was Jesus speaking to? Not us who speak English today. He spoke Hebrew/Aramaic to Jewish people. He spoke to other Jews within a Jewish cultural context. Culture always determines the meaning of the words used. The two main concepts used in determining what things meant in ancient culture are studying the history and culture of the people, in that time era.

Just as the terms "bind" and "loose" were used in conjunction with the interpretation of Scripture, "destroy the Law and the prophets" and "fulfill" were also terms used when determining what Scripture taught. In the 1st century, if one rabbi thought that another rabbi was misinterpreting Scripture, he would tell the other rabbi, "You are destroying the law and the prophets." If a rabbi was believed to interpret Scripture correctly, he was said to be "fulfilling Scripture."

So, Jesus had communicated to the Jewish listeners: "Do not think I came to misinterpret Scripture. I came not to put forth false teaching but to teach the correct meaning of Scripture."

That is what the Jewish people understood Jesus to have said. If you get away from the false teaching practice of only reading certain verses and no further, Mat 5:18 clearly shows that heaven and earth will pass away until all things are accomplished. Guess what? "All things" won't be accomplished until Jesus returns, Mat 26:64, and separates the sheep from the goats, with the sheep being given eternal life and the goats being punished, Mat 25:31-46.

If you want to run to Rom 10:4, you need to know that instead of the verse reading that Jesus is the end of the law, the verse, properly translated will read, "For Christ is the GOAL/PURPOSE of the Law."

Do "thou shalt not murder, steal, commit adultery or bear false witness," still apply to believers today? Those are part of the Old Testament Law. Did Jesus do away with those commandments? The Mosaic Law instructed for God's people to be kind to strangers, to show mercy, to help out the poor and needy and honor thy father and mother. Are those a part of a believer's life today or did Jesus do away with them?
The Law needs to be looked at as instructions for the Jews then and believers today rather than a strict set of rules.

When Jesus said, "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, Mat 4:4, are believers today supposed to live that way? That instruction comes from Deut 8:3. Or how about, "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God," Mat 4:7? Does that apply today? It comes straight from Deut 6:16. What about "Thou shall worship the Lord thy God and him only, Mat 4:10? Jesus was quoting Deut 6:13. What about Mat 19:19, "Honour your father and mother, Ex 20:12 and "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, Lev 19:18? What about what Paul wrote in Rom 12:19? He took this from Deut 32:35. Most of you know that Deuteronomy means a "re-telling or a re-giving" of the Law. The book of Deuteronomy is quoted over 60 times in the New Testament. The book of Romans has 30 direct quotes or references from the Old Testament. There are direct quotes, paraphrases or references to/from the Old Testament in every New Testament book!

If Jesus was going to do away with the law, why did he say;

Lk 11:28 Yea, rather blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it.

John 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21 He that has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me...

John 14:23 If a man love me, he will keep my words...

John 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in His love.

The huge majority of instructions in the New Testament come straight from the Old Testament. The Old and New Testaments are not two separate parts of Scripture; they are intertwined. The New is just a continuation of the story.

And I do believe that the Law of Moses was set aside , period

The only one KEEPING the Law of Moses are Jews in USA and in Israel , and where is the TEMPLE !!

Israel and the Law was set aside in Acts 28: 25-28 and verse 31 Paul says in that verse , preaching the Kingdom of God

and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus , and this the things Paul is talking about in Rom 16:25 Now to the One being

able to make ylu firm according to MY GOSPEL and the Preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the

MYSTERY , having been KEPT silence in times PERTAINING to the AGES .

And verse 26 , But now Having been made CLEAR as by prophetic SCRIPTURES accrdrding to the COMMND of the

everlasting God , has been made KNOWN to all GENTILES for the OBEDIENCE OF FAITH !!

And all have to peach the MYSTERY T BE IN THE FAITH !!

AND 1 Tim 1:4 says the same thing !!

dan p

 

[Soyeong]

And I do believe that the Law of Moses was set aside , period

The only one KEEPING the Law of Moses are Jews in USA and in Israel , and where is the TEMPLE !!

Israel and the Law was set aside in Acts 28: 25-28 and verse 31 Paul says in that verse , preaching the Kingdom of God

and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus , and this the things Paul is talking about in Rom 16:25 Now to the One being

able to make ylu firm according to MY GOSPEL and the Preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the

MYSTERY , having been KEPT silence in times PERTAINING to the AGES .

And verse 26 , But now Having been made CLEAR as by prophetic SCRIPTURES accrdrding to the COMMND of the

everlasting God , has been made KNOWN to all GENTILES for the OBEDIENCE OF FAITH !!

And all have to peach the MYSTERY T BE IN THE FAITH !!

AND 1 Tim 1:4 says the same thing !!

dan p

The Mosaic Law teach us things that are true about God’s character, so the only way to set it aside would be if what it teaches us about God’s character were no longer true, but God’s character is eternal. For example, God’s righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God’s righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160) and the only way to set aside God’s righteous laws would be by first setting aside God’s righteousness. Likewise, the only way to set aside God’s instructions for how to be holy as He is holy would be by setting aside God’s holiness, and so forth for God’s other character traits, so by setting aside the Mosaic Law you are also setting aside the God of Israel.

 

[Dan Perez]

The Mosaic Law teach us things that are true about God’s character, so the only way to set it aside would be if what it teaches us about God’s character were no longer true, but God’s character is eternal. For example, God’s righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God’s righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160) and the only way to set aside God’s righteous laws would be by first setting aside God’s righteousness. Likewise, the only way to set aside God’s instructions for how to be holy as He is holy would be by setting aside God’s holiness, and so forth for God’s other character traits, so by setting aside the Mosaic Law you are also setting aside the God of Israel.

And where does it say that that God's character is no longer TRUE , BECAUSE the LAW of Moses was set aside ??

dan p

 

[Soyeong]

And where does it say that that God's character is no longer TRUE , BECAUSE the LAW of Moses was set aside ??

dan p

That is straightforwardly true. For as long as God has been eternally righteous there has also existed an eternal way to act in accordance with God's righteousness and this way can't be set aside without first setting aside God's righteousness.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

And where does it say that that God's character is no longer TRUE , BECAUSE the LAW of Moses was set aside ??

dan p

Jesus Wrote the Law and was/is The LAW in His Own Body, the Word made flesh. What Word of God was made flesh?

All of them, law inclusive. Red letters, every one, cover to cover

Learn them. IF Jesus is in us, then so is every Word also