Jesus did not CREATE himself

[inhimitrust]

Adherents of the FALSE doctrine that Jesus is BOTH true GOD and true MAN fail to realize the absurdity of this belief.

The Bible teaches that it was God who CREATED man (Gen. 1:27). GOD is the single English word that describes the ONE who CREATED everything in heaven and on earth. And MAN is the single English word that describes what God CREATED on the sixth day of creation (Gen. 1:31).

To say then that Jesus is GOD, who CREATED man, and at the same time MAN, who was CREATED by GOD is ABSURD because it would IMPLY that Jesus CREATED himself.

Jesus has categorically stated that he is a MAN (John 8:40). This proves that he is a CREATED being. If so, which GOD created Jesus? Was it God the Father to whom Jesus was praying and whom he identified as the ONLY true God (John 17:3). Or was it Jesus himself who Trinitarians believe is both the CREATOR and the CREATURE at the SAME time?

Ed

This should answer your question. Christ was formed in the womb of a woman, thru the Holy Spirit of God. Jesus was a created man of flesh and blood, just like us. He bled, eat, drank, slept, cried, prayed to God just like we do.
He was sacrificed by God Himself, not by others, as Christ Himself said He could have legions of angels to save Him if He wanted. Christ was God's messenger, and He desginated Christ as His "Son", which was something very personal and maternal. He was empowered with the Holy Spirit of God to enable God to talk thru Him, just as the spirit of God does thru us.
This is how we got the NT and the words of God. Christ also appeared to Paul to bring in new revelation of the coming of Christ and the resurrection of our bodies, first by being reborn again in Spirit, and raised in spirit when we die. Shortly after Paul ministered and died, the roman army came to Jerusalem in 70ad and the synagogue of satan was taken out. We are the "messiahs" of God today, bringing God's message to all that we can and we do that with the help of God's spirit and is what the whole bible is about.
Thank you Lord for coming into my life, praise God the Father and Jesus Christ His Son.

 

[inhimitrust]

Adherents of the FALSE doctrine that Jesus is BOTH true GOD and true MAN fail to realize the absurdity of this belief.

The Bible teaches that it was God who CREATED man (Gen. 1:27). GOD is the single English word that describes the ONE who CREATED everything in heaven and on earth. And MAN is the single English word that describes what God CREATED on the sixth day of creation (Gen. 1:31).

To say then that Jesus is GOD, who CREATED man, and at the same time MAN, who was CREATED by GOD is ABSURD because it would IMPLY that Jesus CREATED himself.

Jesus has categorically stated that he is a MAN (John 8:40). This proves that he is a CREATED being. If so, which GOD created Jesus? Was it God the Father to whom Jesus was praying and whom he identified as the ONLY true God (John 17:3). Or was it Jesus himself who Trinitarians believe is both the CREATOR and the CREATURE at the SAME time?

Ed

I agree with you. God is the One and Only God and creator.
His Spirit dwells in those that believe unto Him thru His son. Man is God's creation, and just as He formed Adam from the dust, so He formed Christ in the womb of a young woman. Christ was a devinely formed Prophet and messenger and sacrificial "lamb" sent by God, and we become just like Christ when we believe in Him and the message He sent. That is what the whole bible is about, God dwelling with mankind thru His Spirit.
At least that is the way I have looked at it. I pray only to God the Father and creator, thru His son Jesus Christ, and we also become sons/daughters of God upon belief in Him.

 

[godchild78]

JOHN 1:1-5 says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it."
yes the darkness( the men in darkness) have not understood it.

Jesus existed before all creations, infact he was the first creation and through him all things were made...it's plain and clear....why are u all so confused???

John 1:6th verse says-"There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world."
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. ".....exactly, the world still doesn't recognize him, thats why people are still arguing endlessly.
the 14th verse-"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
Jesus was the word and now he becomes flesh.
15th verse -"John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. "

SO IT IS CLEARLY STATED BY JOHN THE BAPTIST THAT JESUS EXISTED EVEN BEFORE ALL CREATIONS. And through JESUS, God made himself be known to us all. Which means, when we know JESUS, we know who GOD really is. Because, Jesus reflects all the qualities and likeness of GOD.

 

[GenemZ]

JOHN 1:1-5 says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it."
yes the darkness( the men in darkness) have not understood it.

Jesus existed before all creations, infact he was the first creation and through him all things were made...it's plain and clear....why are u all so confused???

John 1:6th verse says-"There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world."
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. ".....exactly, the world still doesn't recognize him, thats why people are still arguing endlessly.
the 14th verse-"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
Jesus was the word and now he becomes flesh.
15th verse -"John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. "

SO IT IS CLEARLY STATED BY JOHN THE BAPTIST THAT JESUS EXISTED EVEN BEFORE ALL CREATIONS. And through JESUS, God made himself be known to us all. Which means, when we know JESUS, we know who GOD really is. Because, Jesus reflects all the qualities and likeness of GOD.

Jesus is the name for his humanity. Christ refers to Deity. It says, the Word existed in the beginning, not his humanity.

Even the passage you quote from, states that the Word "became flesh." If Jesus was in the beginning with God, then he would not have "become" flesh. He would have just appeared on the scene and skipped all the details of having to be born.

Jesus is the name of his humanity.

"She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." Matthew 1:21 niv

The Word was with God in the beginning, not his flesh. The Word became flesh later on. That flesh was named, "Jesus."


Keeping it straight... Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[inhimitrust]

Jesus is the name for his humanity. Christ refers to Deity. It says, the Word existed in the beginning, not his humanity.

Even the passage you quote from, states that the Word "became flesh." If Jesus was in the beginning with God, then he would not have "become" flesh. He would have just appeared on the scene and skipped all the details of having to be born.

Jesus is the name of his humanity.

"She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." Matthew 1:21 niv

The Word was with God in the beginning, not his flesh. The Word became flesh later on. That flesh was named, "Jesus."


Keeping it straight... Grace and peace, GeneZ

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.


1 corint 15:44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam [became] a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

Isaiah 48:16"I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

1 corin 10: 1-4 I want you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same supernatural food and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ."5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for [their bodies] were scattered in the wilderness.


John 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on [them,] and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.


Acts 2:3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and [one] sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Jesus was not created. As the Creed states, "Begotten, not made...one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made."

 

[GenemZ]

Jesus was not created. As the Creed states, "Begotten, not made...one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made."

You keep confusing his Deity with the humanity. Deity can never be created.

Now, tell me this? If you believe "begotten" speaks on an eternally existing humanity, why was he to be born from the "seed of the woman?" Why even be born? He should have just appeared as he had when he used to appear as the Angel of Jehovah, but this time instead, appear as a man.

Problem is with creeds can be, if we accept them without knowing the original intent we will create our own dogma. Dogma that can contradict what the Scripture teaches. Jesus body did not pre-exist before his birth. You are saying his humanity did?

Again, some here get confused and can not see that his humanity was real humanity. Humanity must be born. To be born, there must be procreation. In the case of Jesus the male sperm was avoided, as the Holy Spirit supplied the perfect genetic material needed to fertilize the ovum of Mary. That way Jesus could be born without a sin nature.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[GenemZ]

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jesus was begotten of the Father because no male was used to produce the body of Jesus. And, "only begotten" in the Greek means, "uniquely begotten." You can check the footnotes on the Amplified translation and it will show you just what I told you is true.

Now, sin entered the world through one man.

"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned."
Romans 5:12 niv

Yet, the woman sinned first!

Why does it not say? That sin entered the world through one woman? Because in the fall it was the male that passes down the biological defect we now call the sin nature. The woman does not pass it down. That is why God prophesied concerning the coming Messiah as coming from "the seed of the woman."


"And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel."

Genesis 3:13 niv

Once Adam fell he took on the nature of Satan. So, his seed was to produce men with the nature of fallen angels. Hence, God calls Adam's seed, Satan's seed.

Another important thing... Jewish thinking always thought in terms of the "male seed." Never in the terms of the woman's seed. That is why Jewish genealogies almost always mentioned only males in the line. Only with rare exception women do get mentioned.

In the case of Jesus, the defect of the sin nature did not get passed down to Jesus body because he had no human father. Yet, he was real human for he came from the seed of Mary. The Holy Spirit provided the needed genetic material to produce a sinless body for the humanity of Christ. Jesus was "uniquely begotten." His body was without defect. His body had no transmitted sin nature passed down from Adam. Jesus was born perfect, as Adam had been created.

Now... Jesus was not only humanity. He was also Deity living in unison with his humanity.

"Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me." Hebrews 10:5 niv

Jesus was "uniquely begotten." His father was the Father, who provided the means for his conception via the Deity of the Holy Spirit.

That is why Jesus could have no human father. Mary did not have to be a virgin to produce a perfect body. For any woman's seed does not pass along the sin nature. Mary was a virgin as a "sign" of a miracle from God. If God wanted to, he could have produced a sinless body by using a deeply sinful woman. Her ovum would have been just as pure. But, God chose righteous parents for Jesus, so he could have a righteous upbringing.

I suggest you stick with what the Word of God says to refute what I said if it is not truth. And, verify it with the Bible, if it is true.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[sawdust]

Jesus body did not pre-exist before his birth. You are saying his humanity did?

Again, some here get confused and can not see that his humanity was real humanity. Humanity must be born. To be born, there must be procreation. In the case of Jesus the male sperm was avoided, as the Holy Spirit supplied the perfect genetic material needed to fertilize the ovum of Mary. That way Jesus could be born without a sin nature.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

I think I understand what you're saying in that Jesus was truly human. The problem I find is in defining "human". I have always struggled to understand what the Church has taught me regarding the nature of man, I keep finding too many loose ends.
Can I just throw some of my thinking at you and see what you can make of it.

In regards the "body" of Jesus, I can understand that didn't exist until created at conception. It grew like any normal baby in the womb etc, except His body was without the sin nature due to the Holy Spirit fertilizing the egg. (sin nature inherited through the male not female line)
Now if I am understanding properly to be truly human (just like us) Jesus then would have had to been given a soul at birth. Question: was His soul created or did His soul pre-exist? I am going to assume His soul was created at birth and in this way the humanity of Jesus is created at a point in time and space just as we are created at a point in time and space.
But now I run into problems. If His soul is created at His birth, then what is the Word in nature? It's not body, it's not soul so is it spirit?
Think I might leave it there. I seem to have a lot of "blonde moments" on this whole issue of body, soul and spirit so could you answer slowly please.

 

[GenemZ]

But now I run into problems. If His soul is created at His birth, then what is the Word in nature? It's not body, it's not soul so is it spirit?
Think I might leave it there. I seem to have a lot of "blonde moments" on this whole issue of body, soul and spirit so could you answer slowly please.

The Word was with God in the beginning... and the Word was God. (Jn 1:1)

Therfore, the Word is Deity. Not soul... not body... not human spirit.

The humanity of Christ is the mediator between God and man. The Greek tells us that one purpose of the humanity (his body, soul, and spirit) is to be a means to interpret God to man.

The Amplified translation reveals this factor from the Greek...

John 1:18

"No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known]."

Who is better to interpret God to man, than the perfect man, Jesus? Jesus can put himself in a perfect position to see how man sees things, and at the same time, his Deity allows him to fully know God. Jesus can take what he knows about God and transcribe it into an expression that man can grasp and understand. You and I can not fathom what its like to be omnsicient. But, we can grasp concepts that explain omniscience.

Jesus became the exact representative of the Father towards man.

"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."
Hebrews 1:3 niv


That is because from his unique position of being both God and man, he can take what he knows about Deity, and give it absolute perfect expression to man. He interprets God to us.

"No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father." John 6:46 niv

"If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." John 14:7 niv

"Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" John 14:9

Jesus was in a constant state of interpreting the Father to men.

God does not get angry. For, God does not get frustrated about anything. Nothing takes God by surprise! God can not fail at anything he wants to do! God is in a constant state of total joy which is beyond our understanding .

Could you imagine a joyful smiling being trying to tell a sinner that he hates sin? Won't work. So, God will interpret his policy towards certain behaviors via the humanity of Christ. Because he is humanity, he knows what communicates to man for the right results.

We will see that joyful side of God once we enter into eternity after all his enemies are removed from our presence forever. But, for now, without God interpreting his policy towards sin and evil we would be very confused when rebuked for wrongdoing in laughter and joy. We may even take it as a sign of his approval! Jesus Christ is God's means of interpreting himself and his policy towards unrighteousness. God would be misunderstood by man without Jesus Christ.

In the OT the Law could not reveal the full nature of God. It could only reveal God's policies towards human behavior. Within the Law, there are glimpses into the nature of God's authority over creation. It could speak of God's love, but not reveal it manifested in bodily form. God was in Heaven, man was here. Now, we are seated with Christ in Heaven!

"And God raised us up together with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:6

Jesus came to reveal the love of God. Law can speak of it, but can not reveal love. Yet, once we come to know the love of God, we can see the love that was behind the making of the Law.

Maybe I need an interpreter, too? I feel that way at times...

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[sawdust]

Maybe I need an interpreter, too? I feel that way at times...

Grace and peace, GeneZ

Actually it might be me that needs an interpreter.

I think what I was trying to get at in my last post is understanding whether it's correct to say if the humanity of Christ is created. (?)

What I've been hearing you say (at least what I think you've been saying) is that Christ's humanity didn't pre-exist but was created. Also in the back of my mind is another thread in which you posted regarding the giving of the soul at birth and that, as the soul is created by God we become human beings at birth. Indeed I got the impression from that thread that it is our soul that makes us distinct from all other life forms on this planet. And because each soul is God's creation it is why we can call ourselves human as distinct from being just another animal. (as the evolutionists want us to believe)
So therefore to say Christ is fully human leads me to think that His humanity must also have been created just like ours. (except His creation being unique in the forming of His body due to the work of the Holy Spirit at conceptipn)

I am most probably confusing you because I tend to think of many concepts at once trying to link them all together. At the moment I'm trying to see the whole picture of Christ's Deity and humanity, what it means to be human (for both Him and us), how human is distinct from animal, being created, being uncreated. Sometimes for me trying to understand one single thought is like trying to pick out a single drop of water in a river. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense until I can identify every drop, then I can sit back and say .... Ahah! It's a river!
Plus it's late at night right now and my brain is drained. No rivers running, more like a sludge pool.

 

[GenemZ]

Actually it might be me that needs an interpreter.

I think what I was trying to get at in my last post is understanding whether it's correct to say if the humanity of Christ is created. (?)

What I've been hearing you say (at least what I think you've been saying) is that Christ's humanity didn't pre-exist but was created. Also in the back of my mind is another thread in which you posted regarding the giving of the soul at birth and that, as the soul is created by God we become human beings at birth. Indeed I got the impression from that thread that it is our soul that makes us distinct from all other life forms on this planet. And because each soul is God's creation it is why we can call ourselves human as distinct from being just another animal. (as the evolutionists want us to believe)
So therefore to say Christ is fully human leads me to think that His humanity must also have been created just like ours. (except His creation being unique in the forming of His body due to the work of the Holy Spirit at conceptipn)

I am most probably confusing you because I tend to think of many concepts at once trying to link them all together. At the moment I'm trying to see the whole picture of Christ's Deity and humanity, what it means to be human (for both Him and us), how human is distinct from animal, being created, being uncreated. Sometimes for me trying to understand one single thought is like trying to pick out a single drop of water in a river. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense until I can identify every drop, then I can sit back and say .... Ahah! It's a river!
Plus it's late at night right now and my brain is drained. No rivers running, more like a sludge pool.

I have a cousin who is Israeli. He speaks fluent Hebrew. Just recently I asked him about Psalm 22:10...

The NIV, reads...

"From birth I was cast upon you;
from my mother's womb you have been my God."

He wrote:

I’ll translate every word separately and the try to translate the whole sentence:

עליך = On you

השלכתי = I Projected

מרחם = From the womb

מבטן אמי = From my mother’s womb

אלי אתה = You are my God

Now the whole sentence:

עליך השלכתי מרחם מבטן אמי אלי אתה = On you I projected From the womb from my mother’s womb you are my God.

It was only from the womb that the soul of Jesus had God as his God. From that, I would have to assume that the soul of Jesus did not pre-exist. For if his soul did, it would have to read more like, "before the womb" you were my God.

I do not claim to be an expert here, but from what I can see in the Scriptures it appears that way. It means that Jesus did not become a living soul until he was "from the womb." Now, do not confuse that with his Deity! His Deity always existed. Never was a time that He did not exist. He was never created, and through him all things were created. Just the same, in knowing all things, his Deity always knew what it would be like to totally identify with humanity. At any moment prior to the birth of Christ, God already knew what it was like to become a man. It was for our sakes that Jesus was made manifest, not God's. For, God knows all things. He never learns. He is always knowing the past, present, and future simultaneously.

Jesus' humanity was created. Matter of fact, Paul warned that we are no longer to know him after that creation!

"Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer." 2 Corinthians 5:16

Jesus Christ is the same, today, yesterday, and tomorrow. Yet, his humanity has changed. We are to no longer know him after the flesh. That is because his humanity of flesh was not Deity, but only a means by which Deity communicates with creation... and is in total identification with men.

1 Corinthians 15:39-40 niv

"All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another."

We were citizens of this earth... our bodies are made of the elements of the earth. When in Heaven, our bodies will be of the elements of Heaven. We will have a body just like our Lord's glorious body. (we will feel great!)

Deity never changes. The body Christ Jesus now has is no longer the same body he had being born of Mary. It has been transformed into a body higher than that of angels. Just like we will become transformed at the rapture.

1 Corinthians 15:52 niv

"..in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."

Yet, the Lord's soul remains the same! The same type of soul we have (humanity). Yet, through his new glorious Heavenly body, his soul is experiencing a greater capacity to know God and the creation. The fullness of Deity now manifests in bodily form! No creature can know God more than what Christ Jesus now contains in his human soul! Man was created in God's image , and now is experiencing that full potential in Christ. Yet, Christ is uniquely begotten by the Father. No one else will ever be his equal. He is the highest manifestation of God. All we could ever know about God is contained in Him. He is the way to knowing God. To hear the Lord speak is to hear God speaking. To see the Lord walk, is to see God walking. You can not separate the two.

His body will become our body in the resurrection. Right now we are not even to know each other after the flesh. The flesh was co-crucified with Christ on the Cross, which is doomed to perish. We are now to know each other after our souls, that is, if we are walking in the power of the Holy Spirit. If we see a believer living according to the power of the flesh we are looking not at the real person as God sees him, but at a dead man.

Therfore, we are to no longer know each other after the flesh. We are to know each other according to God's Word. We know each other by faith and in love. Without faith, love is squelched. Without faith the Holy Spirit is held prisoner in our body. He can be grieved. He can be squelched.

Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. The greater our faith, the greater our capacity for love. The greater the opportunity the Holy Spirit has to glorify Christ in us! Which is to love the Lord... Whom is the Word! (John 1:1)

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[magnum]

From what I understand Jesus is the alpha and omega. He has always been. He was before abraham was!

So, he has always been. Period.

 

[alexeeah]

I think we are all missing the point here.... Look in Matthew 3:16-17And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon himAnd lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


Jesus was in the water the dove was in the air and God in heaven was speaking. So we prove that they are all different people here, now look in 1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word,(jesus) and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one

Now we prove that they are one. The trinity means three seperate beings fittly joined as one. The are three but they are one....................

 

[alexeeah]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..............All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made............And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.(John1:1,3,&14)

How can it be any clearer. The word was with God in the beginning and then the word was made flesh. What part did you miss. Jesus was a spiritual being and then he was made in to flesh for us.

 

[rainbowprism]

Jesus was not on this side of creation.... he was begotten (word study of this shows a big difference). and is part of the Father and the HS.