Jesus did not come to save the ((world))

joinfree · May 30, 2017

Christie insb said:
So where did Satan come from?

The holy angel Lucifer has lost his existence, so the satan is not real. But the problem of satan is real. The satan is emptiness, is nothingness. The satan can talk to you, can kill you. But he does not exist, exists the problem. And the "false atheism" and nihilism are the evil whisperers of nothingness. The term "false atheism" is explained in the link below:

JohnOfWoodGreen · May 30, 2017

Jesus came that His elect would be saved. He also came that the world MIGHT be saved.

miknik5 · May 30, 2017

Von Davidicus said:
I fully agree with you, and this is why I quit taking communion years ago--and why I've considered giving up going to Church. Yes, I believe Christ died for the remission of sins, but not for mine. Even if I have confessed and believed, that means nothing. God alone decides who is Saved and who is Damned.

You gave up hope

Mountainmanbob · May 30, 2017

Von Davidicus said:
I fully agree with you, and this is why I quit taking communion years ago--and why I've considered giving up going to Church. Yes, I believe Christ died for the remission of sins, but not for mine. Even if I have confessed and believed, that means nothing. God alone decides who is Saved and who is Damned.

Faith comes by hearing of the word of God so staying in a good church is probably a good idea God bless you Bob

lsume · May 30, 2017

miknik5 said:
Yes that is true
But do we know who are the wheat and who are the tares?

And even if we had some idea or deemed at ghatbpresent moment one to be a tare we are told not to uproot anything

We have no part in the harvest
And while it is still today, what may appear to be a tare today, may very well be a wheat tomorrow

Very true which is one of the reasons that we are not the judge. However, just as some Christians know that they are the children of God, so do some know that they are the children of the wicked one.

BobRyan · May 30, 2017

Mountainmanbob said:
It's amazing to me how many people here on this Christian forum that state -- that the whole world will be saved.

John 17:9

I pray for them: I pray not for the world

M-Bob

Well I don't believe in universalism - Matt 7 is a good example of the whole world not choosing the Gospel.

- but it is helpful to state the case in some way that is not in direct conflict with scripture.

1 John 4:14 " And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world."

miknik5 · May 30, 2017

lsume said:
Very true which is one of the reasons that we are not the judge. However, just as some Christians know that they are the children of God, so do some know that they are the children of the wicked one.

Are you sure they knowingly serve that wrong father?

And then there are those who unknowingly serve that wrong father

Even so, if we discern that one knowingly is ssrving dstan, we shake the dust off our feet as a testimony against them

We do not do anymore than that

Mountainmanbob · May 30, 2017

miknik5 said:
And then there are those who unknowingly serve that wrong father

I think that most will fall in that category.
Because most non believers think that compared to the world -- they are pretty good.
Being pretty good just does not get one in.

I know what man will say, "that just isn't fair."

Who are you little man ?

M-Bob

Douglas Hendrickson · May 30, 2017

BobRyan said:
Well I don't believe in universalism - Matt 7 is a good example of the whole world not choosing the Gospel.

- but it is helpful to state the case in some way that is not in direct conflict with scripture.

1 John 4:14 " And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world."

Savior of the world IN THE WORLD. Not on another planet.

JLB777 · May 30, 2017

miknik5 said:
Do you agree that there is ONE TESTIMONY?

Or many?

Peter's letter was to instruct those in CHRIST not to entertain the voices of lies

Just as ISAIAH instructs us not to go to the dead for THE LIVING (one).

Where are your "wosemen" now?

Let them tell what the LORD SABBOATH will do

"Wisemen" is said in sarcasm
They are false lying voices and spirits who do not hold to THE TESTIMONY and do not speak according to THE WORD

Peter was addressing these as false prophets who had many heretical additions to THE ONE TRUTH and GOSPEL

And there are many who do add to THE ONE TRUTH and GOSPEL even today

BIND UP THE TESTIMONY amongst MY DISCIPLES

And when they tell you to seek spirits should not a people consult their GOD?

To the dead (spirits) for THE LIVING(ONE)?

If they speak not according to THE WORD, it is because there is no LIGHT in them

Please reread 2 Peter 2 in context
and read also (Isaiah 8)

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4

Still says the same thing.

Angels are sons of God.

We who believe, are sons of God through faith.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26

We will have become actual sons of God, like the angels, if we attain the resurrection and that age.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36

For now we have the hope of becoming sons of God, at the resurrection, when we hear these words from our Lord and King:

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34

JLB

miknik5 · May 30, 2017

Mountainmanbob said:
I think that most will fall in that category.
Because most non believers think that compared to the world -- they are pretty good.
Being pretty good just does not get one in.

I know what man will say, "that just isn't fair."

Who are you little man ?

M-Bob

They won't be able to say anything

All mouths will be silenced

One of the reasons why Job would not state his case before GOD is because of the very "catch-22iveness" of it

For one thing, opening our mouth before GOD implies somehow that we can sit side by side with GOD as GOD's equal and remind HIM of what we have done? What is it that GOD needs to be reminded of?

Another thing, opening our mouths before GOD, reminding HIM of a list of our "most righteous works" we exalt ourselves over our brothers deeming them less worthy, less righteous

Job understood the catch-22iveness which is why HE both pled and prophecied man"s dilemma

If only there were a days man between us who could lay HIS hand on the both of us and bring us together

miknik5 · May 30, 2017

Douglas Hendrickson said:
Savior of the world IN THE WORLD. Not on another planet.

Still working
There are still enemies of THE CROSS and not all have been made subject to CHRIST

It's why THE GOSPEL is still preached and will be preached to the ends of the world and afterwards comes the end

When the numbers in CHRIST are complete and all has been fulfilled then will the end come and with it HE will put the last of HIS enemies under HIS feet

miknik5 · May 30, 2017

CHRIST said I did not come to bring peace but division

Are you saying that all in the world believe in THE GOSPEL?

miknik5 · May 30, 2017

If the fact that HE came into the world saved the whole world then there would have been no need for HIM to commission HIS DISCIPLES to "go" and preach THE GOSPEL"

Another thing, when CHRIST prayed to THE FATHER, HE said I do not pray for the world but for those whom you have given ME out of the world

Please look into it

miknik5 · May 30, 2017

But the LORD is gracious

For H said anyone who receives you receives ME
And anyone who gives a cup of cold water to one of these because he is my disciple will certainly not lose his reward

Therefore do not lose hope in HIM

Faith, even the size of a mustard seed, directed rightly in and on CHRIST JESUS alone is still

FAITH

BobRyan · May 30, 2017

Douglas Hendrickson said:
Savior of the world IN THE WORLD. Not on another planet.

On another planet???

Are you referring to Hebrews 8:1 "the main point is this"???

What is your comment referring to?

"Savior of the world IN the World" who are you quoting? you?

Der Alte · May 30, 2017

surrender1 said:
Whether or not it was literally used at one time during the days of Joshua to sacrifice children to the god of Moloch and whether or not it was literally the place where God killed a massive number of Assyrians, it was traditionally associated with the location Isaiah refers to in his final chapter about dead *bodies* being devoured by unquenchable fire. In ancient Aramaic translations of this chapter, the dead bodies are explicitly stated to be in the Valley of Hinnom, where the wicked suffered the *second death*.

You mentioned "ancient Aramaic translations" which is easy to say, but did you read my post [post #226] this thread where I presented actual evidence from, and linked to, the Jewish Encyclopedia and the Talmud?

Jesus confirms the traditional association by describing the Valley of Hinnom in the same way Isaiah describes the location filled with unquenchable fire and maggots. Jesus uses the Valley of Hinnom because it had become a common symbol for God's divine punishment. In this sense, it is analogous to the lake of fire (especially since both are referred to as the 'second death'). To the Jews, the Valley of Hinnom (aka Gehenna) came to mean a place of burning and fiery judgment.

Here is part of the first paragraph which I quoted from the Jewish Encyclopedia in post #226, linked to above, actual evidence which can be verified.

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);

I would be interested in seeing the actual sources which you cite.

Hank77 · May 30, 2017

Mountainmanbob said:
I don't know - John the Baptist comes to mind. I believe he was born again in the womb.
M-Bob

How many virgin women do you know who have given birth? In other words, God has done miraculous things, especially those around the Christ. So for John to be moved by the Holy Spirit to recognize his Lord while in the womb would not be a common occurrence but a miraculous one. imho, the scripture makes it clear that it was special.

Hank77 · May 30, 2017

miknik5 said:
Wherefore I send you prophets, was HE talking about that past generation or the future generation?

my two cents....
He was talking about prophets sent to Israel. Both the prophets who had been slain, the Apostles who would be slain by the unbelieving Jews, such as James. So it is past and future but still it is That generation. Jewish leaders or any Jew are not going around killing prophets and haven't since That generation.
Do you think they will be in the future? I don't. I don't know of any scripture that says they will be.

Hank77 · May 30, 2017

miknik5 said:
Job understood the catch-22iveness which is why HE both pled and prophecied man"s dilemma

If only there were a days man between us who could lay HIS hand on the both of us and bring us together

Yes, Job knew that he needed someone to plead his case for him and knew someday that Redeemer would come. Job was a prophet.

Jesus did not come to save the ((world))

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