LDS Jesus created Satan

[Rescued One]

Mormon Scripture:
Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 5
7 And the Gods formed man from the dust of the ground, and took his spirit (that is, the man’s spirit), and put it into him; and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

Abraham 3
22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them; (I guess these gods aren't omniscient.)

 

[Aseyesee]

Mormonism teaches Jesus and Satan are brothers. The bible says Jesus created Satan:

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

Comments?

Doesn't the Bible say God created all things by him, or by his word?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Doesn't the Bible say God created all things by him, or by his word?

And LDS very much believe that. The discussion is not over the fact that He did create all things (that everyone agrees on) but the method in which it was done, which is not specified in the Bible.

 

[Aseyesee]

And LDS very much believe that. The discussion is not over the fact that He did create all things (that everyone agrees on) but the method in which it was done, which is not specified in the Bible.

It is, but spiritual math defines the process, such as the case is with who reveals the son; as Jesus said (who is the word of God), my words are not my own, or I do nothing of myself, or I do what I see my father do.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Mormonism teaches Jesus and Satan are brothers. The bible says Jesus created Satan:

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

Comments?

To really understand our position you need some back ground in Mormon doctrine.

The word 'things' is not found in the Greek, you are suppose to know what things he created by the content of the passage.

as an example Col 1 I'll take the word 'things' out of it and you will see the intent.

16 For by him were all created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and unseen, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all were created by him, and for him: And he is before all, and by him all consist.

So Jesus/Yahweh plans and controls the powers which think they are ruling the earth. He put the emperors in power and decided the outcomes of war.

Now back to John 1
"All were made by him; and without him was not any made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

Jesus/ Yahweh created the physical world and he used the dust of the earth to create the physical bodies for Adam and Eve, thus all men were made by him.

The little phrase 'that was made' means there are thing which are not made, they are not created. All element has always existed, we do not believe in something from nothing. God takes the elements and organizes. You and I have always existed first as an intelligence, then as a spirit and now with a mortal body.

But Satan does not have a physical body, he is only a spirit and Jesus/Yahweh never claims to have made the spirits of heaven and earth, command them yes but never create them, see Isa 45:12

Between Gen 1 and 2 there are two stories of the creation, most everyone see them as one creation with two story lines but we see them as two different creations, first the spiritual and then the physical.

The spiritual creation included all the host of heaven and earth and right down to every blade of grass before it was in the earth and before it grew, Gen 2. This is the creation of the Father and on the seventh day he rested, he was done. His first creation or first spirit he organized was Yahweh, he was firstborn of the spirit. After that the Father created every last spirit, yours and mine and everyone who will be born on this earth before he was finished. This is why he has the title of The Father of Spirit, Heb 12

Satan was one of these spirits but because of his rebellion he will never receive a physical body, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed" so all of the spirits/angels who followed Satan have been denied the opportunity to obtain a body.

 

[BigDaddy4]

The word 'things' is not found in the Greek, you are suppose to know what things he created by the content of the passage.

as an example Col 1 I'll take the word 'things' out of it and you will see the intent.

Talk about a Bible butchering to fit one's theology!

 

[Rescued One]

...
Jesus/ Yahweh created the physical world and he used the dust of the earth to create the physical bodies for Adam and Eve, thus all men were made by him.

The little phrase 'that was made' means there are thing which are not made, they are not created. All element has always existed, we do not believe in something from nothing. God takes the elements and organizes. You and I have always existed first as an intelligence, then as a spirit and now with a mortal body.

But Satan does not have a physical body, he is only a spirit and Jesus/Yahweh never claims to have made the spirits of heaven and earth, command them yes but never create them, see Isa 45:12...



Satan was one of these spirits but because of his rebellion he will never receive a physical body, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed" so all of the spirits/angels who followed Satan have been denied the opportunity to obtain a body.

The Mormon Satan is made of matter. How is matter not physical?

matter
NOUN
mass noun Physical substance in general, as distinct from mind and spirit; (in physics) that which occupies space and possesses rest mass, especially as distinct from energy.

The existence of both good and evil spirit beings is a prominent doctrine in LDS theology. Spirits are intelligent, self-existent, organized matter and are governed by eternal laws. Moreover, all living things had a pre-earthly spirit existence. LDS understanding on this subject is formulated by biblical and latter-day scripture and the teachings of latter-day prophets.
Spirit - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

Doctrine and Covenants 131
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

For instance:
“The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a Spirit, in the form of a man. … The Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, and has a spirit body only. His mission is to bear witness of the Father and the Son and of all truth.

• “As a Spirit personage the Holy Ghost has size and dimensions. He does not fill the immensity of space, and cannot be everywhere present in person at the same time. He is also called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit of Truth, and the Comforter” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation,1:38).
  Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual Chapter 5: The Holy Ghost

 

[dzheremi]

The word 'things' is not found in the Greek, you are suppose to know what things he created by the content of the passage.

John 1:3 uses the word πάντα (panta), 'everything', which is the plural form of πᾶν 'whole, all'. So it doesn't need to have the separate word 'things' in it, because in the original it already means 'everything'.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Talk about a Bible butchering to fit one's theology!

I found this non Mormon source
BibleFood.com is authored by Robert T. Jones III, assistant pastor-teacher of Northside Bible Church, Jacksonville Florida. (No connection with Bob Jones University of Greenville South Carolina)

Bible Food for Hungry Christians

"The Greek word "pas" MAY mean a 100% all, but, I haven't found one. If we do take "pas" to be a 100% all, the context must be considered and the rest of the Scriptures must back it up!"

and then this

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 3956 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
paß including all the forms of declension
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Pas 5:886,795
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pas Adjective
Definition

1. individually
   1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2. collectively
   1. some of all types

... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go afterChrist? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan."Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God,little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Doesthe whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" areused in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is veryrarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words aregenerally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts-- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has notrestricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ..."

You have a whole doctrine built on a miss understanding of the little word "all" and that is very sad.

 

[withwonderingawe]

John 1:3 uses the word πάντα (pant), 'everything', which is the plural form of πᾶν 'whole, all'. So it doesn't need to have the separate word 'things' in it, because in the original it already means 'everything'.

When this was written it was not broken up into passages you need the next verse to understand the intent. I looked the verse up in Strongs and I do not see 'pant', tried ever which way to make the word come up and it didn't.

You give it a try;
www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/jhn/1/1/ss1/s_998001

 

[withwonderingawe]

The Mormon Satan is made of matter. How is matter not physical?

matter
NOUN
mass noun Physical substance in general, as distinct from mind and spirit; (in physics) that which occupies space and possesses rest mass, especially as distinct from energy.

The existence of both good and evil spirit beings is a prominent doctrine in LDS theology. Spirits are intelligent, self-existent, organized matter and are governed by eternal laws. Moreover, all living things had a pre-earthly spirit existence. LDS understanding on this subject is formulated by biblical and latter-day scripture and the teachings of latter-day prophets.
Spirit - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

Doctrine and Covenants 131
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

For instance:
“The Holy Ghost is the third member of the Godhead. He is a Spirit, in the form of a man. … The Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, and has a spirit body only. His mission is to bear witness of the Father and the Son and of all truth.

• 
  
  
  • “As a Spirit personage the Holy Ghost has size and dimensions. He does not fill the immensity of space, and cannot be everywhere present in person at the same time. He is also called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Lord, the Spirit of Truth, and the Comforter” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation,1:38).
    Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual Chapter 5: The Holy Ghost

Satan is yes made of matter, spirit matter which God the Father organized. Yahweh/ Jesus did not make spirits.

 

[dzheremi]

When this was written it was not broken up into passages you need the next verse to understand the intent. I looked the verse up in Strongs and I do not see 'pant', tried ever which way to make the word come up and it didn't.

You give it a try;
www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/jhn/1/1/ss1/s_998001

It would help if you didn't change the spelling of the word you are looking for in the post you were replying to, for some reason (I'll assume unintentionally). Look at post #28. I didn't write "pant". "pant", as far as I know, is not a word. "Panta" is, and it is most definitely found in Strongs. Look for yourself at this link. πάντα occurs 56 times on that page.

Also note definition 2b, which reads as follows: "Plural, πάντα (without the article (cf. Winers Grammar, 116 (110); Matthiae, § 438)) all things". This is exactly how it is translated in most English-language Bibles.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Mormonism teaches Jesus and Satan are brothers. The bible says Jesus created Satan:

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

Comments?

I wanted you to understand the Mormon understanding of reality so I'm posting this;

I gave a lesson today and it was based on a quote from Elder Weatherford T. Clayton, Our Father’s Glorious Plan. He was a Doctor and delivered babies, he started out his sermon by talking about a delivery and then he says;

Such was the beginning of life for each of us. Yet was our birth truly the beginning? The world sees birth and death as the beginning and the end. But because of God’s holy plan, we know that birth and death are actually just milestones on our journey to eternal life with our Heavenly Father. They are essential parts of our Father’s plan—sacred moments when mortality and heaven intersect. Today, reflecting on what I have learned from observing birth and death through my years of medical practice and Church service, I want to testify of our Father’s glorious plan.

“Before we were born, we lived with God, the Father of our spirits. All [of us] on earth are literally brothers and sisters” in His family, and each of us is precious to Him..........And then, through Christ and His Atonement, all who choose to follow Him through faith, repentance, baptism, receiving the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end will find that their journey’s end is to receive “their divine destiny as heirs of eternal life.” They will return to their Father’s presence to live with Him forever. May we choose well. ..."

We see each person on earth as a precious spirit child of our Heavenly Father. Satan and those who followed him are also his children and it brought him great sadness to have him rebel.

 

[withwonderingawe]

It would help if you didn't change the spelling of the word you are looking for in the post you were replying to, for some reason (I'll assume unintentionally). Look at post #28. I didn't write "pant". "pant", as far as I know, is not a word. "Panta" is, and it is most definitely found in Strongs. Look for yourself at this link. πάντα occurs 56 times on that page.

Also note definition 2b, which reads as follows: "Plural, πάντα (without the article (cf. Winers Grammar, 116 (110); Matthiae, § 438)) all things". This is exactly how it is translated in most English-language Bibles.

You are not gong to like this answer, you have to be careful with the Christianizing of certain Latin words and this is one of those places.

Non Mormon source again;
Greek Language, Early Christian and Byzantine

“ At the beginning of the Christian era, Greek was widely spoken in the Mediterranean basin. In morphology, syntax, and vocabulary it was derived from the Attic-Ionic dialect, but it bore the imprint of subsequent linguistic developments. Contacts with other languages and cultures in the Hellenistic world left their mark, especially in vocabulary and syntax. Two factors in particular helped mold this spoken Greek into the vehicle for the dissemination of Christian teaching.

Basic Elements. First, the Septuagint (LXX) translation of the OT crystallized Greek terminology for theological concepts completely foreign to ancient Greek, added Hebrew and Aramaic loanwords to the vocabulary, and through literal renderings of the Hebrew, introduced Semitisms into Christian Greek. Second, the books of the NT, deeply influenced by LXX terminology, gave specifically Christian meanings to current words and coined words to explain new concepts.”

When John wrote those passages it did not mean “ in an absolute sense, all things that exist, all created things” , Christians began forcing that meaning upon the word. Every definition before that and including at the beginning of that portion of the definition it says; “all things; a. of a certain definite totality or sum of things, the context shewing what things are meant…” Greek Language, Early Christian and Byzantine - Dictionary definition of Greek Language, Early Christian and Byzantine | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

And in John 1:3-4 it means the 'totality' of all men.

 

[dzheremi]

That's a lot of words to avoid admitting that you are wrong about the Greek, WWA.

And it really does not matter if you feel that the Church 'forced' certain meanings on the text, or if you find a source (Mormon or non-Mormon) that claims that this happened. The Church wrote the text, so it is theirs (ours!) to interpret, and that interpretation is in keeping with the text and the received tradition of the apostles and their disciples. It is their interpretation that is authoritative, not encyclopedia.com's. Encyclopedia.com is not a Church father in any tradition.

From the mouths of our holy fathers:

Moses in the beginning of the history and writings of the Old Testament speaks to us of the objects of sense, and enumerates them to us at length. For, In the beginning, he says, God made the heaven and the earth, and then he adds, that light was created, and a second heaven and the stars, the various kinds of living creatures, and, that we may not delay by going through particulars, everything else. But this Evangelist, cutting all short, includes both these things and the things which are above these in a single sentence; with reason, because they were known to his hearers, and because he is hastening to a greater subject, and has instituted all his treatise, that he might speak not of the works but of the Creator, and Him who produced them all. And therefore Moses, though he has selected the smaller portion of the creation, (for he has spoken nothing to us concerning the invisible powers,) dwells on these things; while John, as hastening to ascend to the Creator Himself, runs by both these things, and those on which Moses was silent, having comprised them in one little saying, All things were made by Him. And that you may not think that he merely speaks of all the things mentioned by Moses, he adds, that without Him was not anything made that was made. That is to say, that of created things, not one, whether it be visible or intelligible was brought into being without the power of the Son.

-- St. John Chrysostom (d. 407), Homily 5 on the Gospel of John

But we do not regard God the Creator of all, the Son of God, as a creature, or thing made, or as made out of nothing, for He is truly existent from Him who exists, alone existing from Him who alone exists, in as much as the like glory and power was eternally and conjointly begotten of the Father. For `He that hath seen' the Son `hath seen the Father (Joh. xiv. 9). All things to wit were made through the Son; but He Himself is not a creature, as Paul says of the Lord: `In Him were all things created, and He is before all' (Col. i. 16). Now He says not, `was created' before all things, but `is' before all things. To be created, namely, is applicable to all things, but `is before all' applies to the Son only.

-- St. Athanasius the Apostolic (d. 373), Statement of Faith

The Father begat the Son, not as among men mind begets word. For the mind is substantially existent in us; but the word when spoken is dispersed into the air and comes to an end. But we know Christ to have been begotten not as a word pronounced, but as a Word substantially existing and living; not spoken by the lips, and dispersed, but begotten of the Father eternally and ineffably, in substance . For, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, sitting at God's right hand; the Word understanding the Father's will, and creating all things at His bidding: the Word, which came down and went up; for the word of utterance when spoken comes not down, nor goes up; the Word speaking and saying, The things which I have seen with My Father, these I speak : the Word possessed of power, and reigning over all things: for the Father hath committed all things unto the Son.

-- St. Cyril of Jerusalem (d. 386), Lecture XI

Etc., etc.

The belief that God created all things is so central to the Christian faith that it is found well before all the above, as in The Shepherd of Hermas, a late 1st century-early 2nd century apocryphal Christian work quoted by such early fathers as St. Irenaeus (d. 202) and St. Clement of Alexandria (d. c.215). In its second book, it gives as its first commandment the following:

First Of all, believe that there is one God who created and finished all things, and made all things out of nothing. He alone is able to contain the whole, but Himself cannot be contained. Have faith therefore in Him, and fear Him; and fearing Him, exercise self-control. Keep these commands, and you will cast away from you all wickedness, and put on the strength of righteousness, and live to God, if you keep this commandment.

 

[Rescued One]

Satan is yes made of matter, spirit matter which God the Father organized. Yahweh/ Jesus did not make spirits.

But Satan does not have a physical body, he is only a spirit and Jesus/Yahweh never claims to have made the spirits of heaven and earth, command them yes but never create them, see Isa 45:12

Spirits according to Mormonism are made of matter. Matter is a physical substance.

Sadly, you are mistaken about the spirits/angels. Lucifer/Satan was created.


Colossians 1
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Visible or invisible
Not just all beings, also all things no matter what they are
(Example: thrones, dominions, principalities, powers are things)

Nehemiah 9
6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Psalm 148
1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights.
2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.

 

[withwonderingawe]

That's a lot of words to avoid admitting that you are wrong about the Greek, WWA.

And it really does not matter if you feel that the Church 'forced' certain meanings on the text, or if you find a source (Mormon or non-Mormon) that claims that this happened. The Church wrote the text, so it is theirs (ours!) to interpret, and that interpretation is in keeping with the text and the received tradition of the apostles and their disciples. It is their interpretation that is authoritative, not encyclopedia.com's. Encyclopedia.com is not a Church father in any tradition.

From the mouths of our holy fathers:

Moses in the beginning of the history and writings of the Old Testament speaks to us of the objects of sense, and enumerates them to us at length. For, In the beginning, he says, God made the heaven and the earth, and then he adds, that light was created, and a second heaven and the stars, the various kinds of living creatures, and, that we may not delay by going through particulars, everything else. But this Evangelist, cutting all short, includes both these things and the things which are above these in a single sentence; with reason, because they were known to his hearers, and because he is hastening to a greater subject, and has instituted all his treatise, that he might speak not of the works but of the Creator, and Him who produced them all. And therefore Moses, though he has selected the smaller portion of the creation, (for he has spoken nothing to us concerning the invisible powers,) dwells on these things; while John, as hastening to ascend to the Creator Himself, runs by both these things, and those on which Moses was silent, having comprised them in one little saying, All things were made by Him. And that you may not think that he merely speaks of all the things mentioned by Moses, he adds, that without Him was not anything made that was made. That is to say, that of created things, not one, whether it be visible or intelligible was brought into being without the power of the Son.

-- St. John Chrysostom (d. 407), Homily 5 on the Gospel of John

But we do not regard God the Creator of all, the Son of God, as a creature, or thing made, or as made out of nothing, for He is truly existent from Him who exists, alone existing from Him who alone exists, in as much as the like glory and power was eternally and conjointly begotten of the Father. For `He that hath seen' the Son `hath seen the Father (Joh. xiv. 9). All things to wit were made through the Son; but He Himself is not a creature, as Paul says of the Lord: `In Him were all things created, and He is before all' (Col. i. 16). Now He says not, `was created' before all things, but `is' before all things. To be created, namely, is applicable to all things, but `is before all' applies to the Son only.

-- St. Athanasius the Apostolic (d. 373), Statement of Faith

The Father begat the Son, not as among men mind begets word. For the mind is substantially existent in us; but the word when spoken is dispersed into the air and comes to an end. But we know Christ to have been begotten not as a word pronounced, but as a Word substantially existing and living; not spoken by the lips, and dispersed, but begotten of the Father eternally and ineffably, in substance . For, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, sitting at God's right hand; the Word understanding the Father's will, and creating all things at His bidding: the Word, which came down and went up; for the word of utterance when spoken comes not down, nor goes up; the Word speaking and saying, The things which I have seen with My Father, these I speak : the Word possessed of power, and reigning over all things: for the Father hath committed all things unto the Son.

-- St. Cyril of Jerusalem (d. 386), Lecture XI

Etc., etc.

The belief that God created all things is so central to the Christian faith that it is found well before all the above, as in The Shepherd of Hermas, a late 1st century-early 2nd century apocryphal Christian work quoted by such early fathers as St. Irenaeus (d. 202) and St. Clement of Alexandria (d. c.215). In its second book, it gives as its first commandment the following:

First Of all, believe that there is one God who created and finished all things, and made all things out of nothing. He alone is able to contain the whole, but Himself cannot be contained. Have faith therefore in Him, and fear Him; and fearing Him, exercise self-control. Keep these commands, and you will cast away from you all wickedness, and put on the strength of righteousness, and live to God, if you keep this commandment.

You can go on believing what you want but the word create in Hebrew bara means 'to make fat', to take something that exists and add to it. Jump up and down and quote all the apostate fathers you want but it doesn't change the truth.

 

[dzheremi]

You and all Mormons should always remember that those same fathers who you arrogantly and ignorantly call 'apostates' are responsible for the canonization of the Bible upon which your religion relies. Without them, there would be no 'the Bible' as any of us know it.

And now you bring up Hebrew as though the received text of the OT as used in and known by Church was the ever Hebrew, rather than the Septuagint, even though it is the Septuagint which is quoted from directly in the NT itself, and the Hebrew canon accepted by Rabbinic Judaism significantly postdates it (3rd-2nd century BC vs. 7th-10th century AD).

How much more of this are we supposed to put up with on a supposedly Christian website? You are free to have your own opinion on these matters, but at some point the actual history of what has gone on, which constitutes the history of Christianity whether you like it or not (so this appeal to your 'great apostasy' idea which is inherent in your insulting the fathers is completely irrelevant), ought to be given a place of preeminence by virtue of the fact that it is a matter of record. Disagree with the fathers all you want, or with me or with any other Christian poster; it's not going to change the fact that Mormon beliefs are absolutely at odds with Christianity itself, as attested to by the earliest witnesses to today. That's a lot more damning than your quibbling about bara that has absolutely no effect on anything whatsoever.

Also a matter of record: Classical Syriac, being a Semitic language and hence sharing many word forms in common with Hebrew, also has this word bara, and the same is used in the Peshitta translation of Genesis 1:1 -- ܒܪܫܝܬ ܒܪܐ ܐܠܗܐ܂ ܝܬ ܫܡܝܐ ܘܝܬ ܐܪܥܐ

Yet the Syriac Christians (any of them) do not espouse anything like Mormon doctrine.

 

[BigDaddy4]

I found this non Mormon source
BibleFood.com is authored by Robert T. Jones III, assistant pastor-teacher of Northside Bible Church, Jacksonville Florida. (No connection with Bob Jones University of Greenville South Carolina)

Bible Food for Hungry Christians

"The Greek word "pas" MAY mean a 100% all, but, I haven't found one. If we do take "pas" to be a 100% all, the context must be considered and the rest of the Scriptures must back it up!"

and then this

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 3956 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
paß including all the forms of declension
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Pas 5:886,795
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
pas Adjective
Definition

1. individually
   1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2. collectively
   1. some of all types

... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go afterChrist? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan."Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God,little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Doesthe whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" areused in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is veryrarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words aregenerally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts-- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has notrestricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ..."

You have a whole doctrine built on a miss understanding of the little word "all" and that is very sad.

And the butchering continues. What is "sad" is you won't see the Truth, but have to redefine words you know nothing about to fit your theology.

 

[thesunisout]

But Satan does not have a physical body, he is only a spirit and Jesus/Yahweh never claims to have made the spirits of heaven and earth, command them yes but never create them, see Isa 45:12

Hello,

I think other posters here have adequately covered some of these points. I will just point out that Gods word does say that He fathered the spirits:

Hebrews 12:9

Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live