Jesus created by design?

[GodSeeker1]

Seems to me as though everything we do and say is created by design. Everything was created by God... so we are all basically running on a script. And since it's all scripted, doesn't that kind of mean we are living as God... without really being aware of it? And since everything is scripted, doesn't it seem insincere to be worshiping a God? Especially if you were designed to do it? That would mean that those who, according to the bible, go to heaven or hell, were designed to go to their destination from before they were even born. If God is love, then why would God design some of us to go to heaven and some to hell? It makes no sense at all. Unless God is evil, I do not believe that an all-knowing God would ever do such a thing. Why do people spend so much time praying, worshiping, and believing in a faith-based God that will there to save them when they die? Is it out of fear of being sent to hell if they decide to take a risk? Why do people as one need a religion worshiping an invisible God? What is it that makes people decide that a person named Jesus Christ is their savior? Is it out of fear of going to this place no one has ever been to called "hell." Is it the fact that it is written in a book titled, "The Holy Bible"? It must be out of fear, because if you do not have Jesus, according to the bible, you would be going to hell if you didn't believe in "Him." And no, I am not Satan, I am a person, just like you, sitting behind a computer screen. Thank you for reading, please discuss!

 

[bling]

Look you need to understand man’s objective while here on earth: To obtain and grow Godly type Love so we can Love God and others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy. This Godly type Love is defined by Christ in all he says and does. This objective requires free will.

Godly type Love cannot be programmed into humans for that would be a robotic type of love and God could not force humans to accept His Love (Love or I torture you) for that would not be Loving on God’s part and the love we got would not be Godly. That means humans have to make a real choice with likely alternatives to accepting God’s Love which is seen in the perceived pleasures of sin for a season being an alternative.

God does provide incentive to humbly accepting God’s Love in the form of forgiveness with “hell”, but to have that as an incentive for the nonbeliever you have to believe there is a God. Hell does show sin to carry a huge debt so in accepting forgiveness we will love much since we have been forgiven much…The greater incentive is in relieving us of the burden we have from hurting others (forgiveness/ accepting God’s Love).

The Christian God is totally unselfish (always doing stuff for the sake of others and not His own sake). All other gods made up by people will be doing “things” for his own sake even if they are not said to have “needs”.

 

[Mr Dave]

Everything was created by God... so we are all basically running on a script. And since it's all scripted, doesn't that kind of mean we are living as God... without really being aware of it?

If we go with 'everything was created by God' then free will was also created by God, so no we're not running on a script. What bling says about Godly Love is right on the money. Allow me the liberty of taking you to another of my posts (http://www.christianforums.com/t7489938/#post55441305).

And since everything is scripted, doesn't it seem insincere to be worshiping a God? Especially if you were designed to do it?

I'd say we're not here to worship God (although that is important) but to enjoy his presence and be with him. All through the NT Jesus says "come", not "come and worship me", but just "come". One of the invitations to communion that is used in the Methodist Church goes;

"Come, not because you must, but because you may; come not to declare that you are righteous, but that you desire to be true disciples of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Christ's disciples were his closest friends, followed him, enjoyed his company and presence, etc. and we are called (not obliged, by command or 'script') to do the same.

 

[salida]

By design? Men have a freewill and God didn't create robots.

Its healthy fear based on overwhelming circumstantial evidence.

Christian concept, Are you a good person? www.livingwaters.com/good/

I suggest you research the credibility of the bible concerning overwhelming evidence which is very high even though it’s a spiritual decision first.
Visit: www.TheBibleProofBook.com, (you will need acrobat reader for this), read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (its overwhelming circumstantial evidence of bible) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster a former athiest/The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel a former athiest. Christiananswers.net, www.equip.org (articles), http://www.gotquestions.org/

Visit the website Reasonable Faith-Bill Craig is a great debater and started this site, in fact Richard Dawkins the famous athiest is afraid to debate him. You have to register but its worth it if your interested.

500 eye witnesses of Jesus Resurrection
http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html

bible? fact or fiction?
http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1167942458

Internal Evidence (prophesies confirmed within bible)
Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Lukes time period 60-70 AD)
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Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 - Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14 - Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of a dream of
Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20/and the fourth
great kingdom to follow- part iron and clay-which is the Roman Empire. During this empire Christ came and his church was established.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical Accuracy
The bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago and has not
been proven incorrect in any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament starts - at 25 years between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of Manuscript Copies-New Testament - 5,686/Homer - 643/Demosthenes - 200/
Plato - 7/Caesar -10
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consistency/Written by God
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years and has no internal inconsistencies.
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Timothy 3:16-17. No other religious book makes such claim.
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External Evidences (prophesies outside bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre - Ezekiel 26:1-28
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Bible before Science- He hangs the earth on nothing-Job 26:7/Earth is a sphere-Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight-Job 28:25/Gravity-Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago; some scholars think 3000 years ago)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles
Archeological Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

 

[xNIHILISTx]

Well most Christians believe that humans have free will and are not scripted, but you bring up good points. I'm not sure if Christians believe that god creates every human or if they believe that he just created the first two and it went from there (some help on that question?) but if he creates every life and he is omniscient why would he create someone he knows will end up in hell? Even if he didn't design us to go to hell he would still know which ones are going.

 

[razeontherock]

These aren't questions we're going to have answers to, nor do they affect anything we'll actually do. What we can know is Him, and learn to listen to His voice. He LOVES telling us things we didn't know!!

 

[bling]

Well most Christians believe that humans have free will and are not scripted, but you bring up good points. I'm not sure if Christians believe that god creates every human or if they believe that he just created the first two and it went from there (some help on that question?) but if he creates every life and he is omniscient why would he create someone he knows will end up in hell? Even if he didn't design us to go to hell he would still know which ones are going.

I explained that in post 2.

 

[razeontherock]

I'll also add that my previous post is a response to the meaty questions in the OP, rather than the thread title.

 

[asianangel]

I'm not sure if Christians believe that god creates every human or if they believe that he just created the first two and it went from there (some help on that question?)

Psalm 139:13-14

"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well."

This is very profound.He has created EVERY human down to the last detail He knows every hair on your head and mine. He loves each and every one He has created

 

[GodSeeker1]

I would like to clarify that I agree %100 that God is real. But we do have to make decisions throughout our daily lives somehow, right? So how do we make those decisions? They would have to be driven by something... If God created everything, our psychology was created, and our psychology drives our decision-making. I didn't create my own psychology... God obviously did. So really, all of our decisions are already created by design, because of how we learn and what we adapt to. So if you worship God, you would be to do that by design... because that is how your psychology runs. Say you are God. You create a being. You have to create its psychology, ie. its emotions, feelings, decisions, and everything else about it... So, what exactly is the point of this robotic love? It doesn't make any sense! I honestly do not mean to offend anyone by this, and I think that Christianity is a great religion, but why worship an invisible entity, God, by the name of Jesus Christ? Did God always have the name Jesus Christ? Either I am delusional and caught under the spell of a demon from the fiery pits of hell (one which God would have to have created), or am I trying to think beyond to something that is actually real and provable?

And asianangel I was reading your signature. Does that mean that if you listen to the word of God, you do not have heart?

Not trying to war, just trying to find real truth.

 

[asianangel]

And asianangel I was reading your signature. Does that mean that if you listen to the word of God, you do not have heart?

Not trying to war, just trying to find real truth.

Hi brother We all have hearts obviously but in Jeremiah it says the heart is deceitfully wicked. It means that we should never trust our heart or our emotions even if you do not believe in God we can see that choices made out of emotional stress or blind love (just as examples) do not lead to the best circumstances. We should guard our hearts from our hearts for our hearts are easily broken and hurt. This is achieved by placing our love for God as I know that He will never forsake me unlike a man that could just decide not to love me one day and leave.

Proverbs 4:23 "Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life."

I hope that helps. For me I have to study the Bible and meditate a while before I understand what it really means...but when it finally gets to me...it's so profound...but since I don't really have the gift of teaching it's hard for me to put it into words that others will easily understand. Sorry if I confused you!!! God bless you.

 

[xNIHILISTx]

Psalm 139:13-14

"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well."

This is very profound.He has created EVERY human down to the last detail He knows every hair on your head and mine. He loves each and every one He has created

thank you very much

 

[asianangel]

thank you very much

You're welcome. May God bless you and give you much wisdom

 

[xNIHILISTx]

If God created everything, our psychology was created, and our psychology drives our decision-making. I didn't create my own psychology... God obviously did. So really, all of our decisions are already created by design, because of how we learn and what we adapt to.

I think that the main belief is that God created the human brain and the brain makes our decisions. It's like you go to a store and buy a video camera and you decide what you want to record, it doesn't come prepackaged with home movies. (stupid analogy, I know...)

 

[bling]

I would like to clarify that I agree %100 that God is real. But we do have to make decisions throughout our daily lives somehow, right? So how do we make those decisions? They would have to be driven by something... If God created everything, our psychology was created, and our psychology drives our decision-making. I didn't create my own psychology... God obviously did. So really, all of our decisions are already created by design, because of how we learn and what we adapt to. So if you worship God, you would be to do that by design... because that is how your psychology runs. Say you are God. You create a being. You have to create its psychology, ie. its emotions, feelings, decisions, and everything else about it... So, what exactly is the point of this robotic love? It doesn't make any sense! I honestly do not mean to offend anyone by this, and I think that Christianity is a great religion, but why worship an invisible entity, God, by the name of Jesus Christ? Did God always have the name Jesus Christ? Either I am delusional and caught under the spell of a demon from the fiery pits of hell (one which God would have to have created), or am I trying to think beyond to something that is actually real and provable?

And asianangel I was reading your signature. Does that mean that if you listen to the word of God, you do not have heart?

Not trying to war, just trying to find real truth.

Please read post 2 again.

Also, you are assuming since God made us, we can only follow a particular path of His chosing, but God created us with a gift of power to make the moral choice to accept or reject His Love in the form of forgiveness. That choice is ours and not programmed in so we can truly Love like God Loves.

 

[asianangel]

Also, you are assuming since God made us, we can only follow a particular path of His chosing, but God created us with a gift of power to make the moral choice to accept or reject His Love in the form of forgiveness. That choice is ours and not programmed in so we can truly Love like God Loves.

Amen. But I think what he is trying to say is that if God KNOWS what we are going to choose morally...did we really have a choice in the first place. The answer is yes we do because as an example...if my mother knew I was going to lie to her does this mean she made me lie to her? No. It means I chose to, but she knew that I would.

 

[GodSeeker1]

What I'm saying is that we are writing out the future as it comes. This is to say that the future already exists, but we do not know how it will turn out. Only God knows, because God created everything. There is a reason for all the choices we make. I mean... ask yourself. Did you create your own psychology? Or your own choices? If you created your own choices, does that mean God did not create it? Meaning you would have created it? I thought God created everything. Does that make you God, since you are creating it? Maybe? I believe so. I can't believe God would have created everything, and then not have created our thoughts and decisions. It seems literally impossible. I mean, how do you make your decisions throughout the day? You have to base your decision on something, yes? It's as if we have free will, but only because we think we do.

 

[razeontherock]

If you created your own choices, does that mean God did not create it? Meaning you would have created it? I thought God created everything. Does that make you God, since you are creating it? Maybe? I believe so.

You have a point, but this does not a god make. "Kings and Priests" are the words He uses. We have "dominion." Over the earth, as long as we're alive. Only because He gave it to us. Take your hand and pick up a pencil, that's dominion. If He withheld your breath, you wouldn't get the chance to write anything with it because you'd die. See the difference?

I can't believe God would have created everything, and then not have created our thoughts and decisions. It seems literally impossible.

Well try it sometime. You can choose to see what I'm saying and respond, you can choose to add me to your ignore list, etc etc.

I mean, how do you make your decisions throughout the day? You have to base your decision on something, yes?

The cryptic phrase "seek G-d's face" refers to what you're alluding to here, intentionally making the choices that please G-d. There's a concept for ya - we can PLEASE G-d.

 

[DwarfJuggler]

Don't a lot of theist like the idea of destiny?
Which by definition means your path is predetermined.
Which by definition means it's scripted?

This was brought up on the atheist experience awhile back as a remark to mention to someone who was trying to assign the lack of belief in a god makes life pointless. They said a witty remark back to the person would be, "If God is all knowing and has planned your life out for you and everyone else on the planet, wouldn't that make life kind of meaningless?" The whole idea of destiny kinda breaks apart the whole free will thought process. As if I were destined to fall off a building in Japan then somewhere along the line my free will would be pushed and prodded into making me go to Japan eliminating the free will idea.

 

[GodSeeker1]

You have a point, but this does not a god make. "Kings and Priests" are the words He uses. We have "dominion." Over the earth, as long as we're alive. Only because He gave it to us. Take your hand and pick up a pencil, that's dominion. If He withheld your breath, you wouldn't get the chance to write anything with it because you'd die. See the difference?

How do you know that "He" is who you are not? What if, secretly, you are your own creator? This is why I feel it is insincere to worship something you don't fully know exists. Which is why I do not believe in worship, which I have tried before.

Well try it sometime. You can choose to see what I'm saying and respond, you can choose to add me to your ignore list, etc etc.

Yes, of course. I can choose to do anything I want to do. But only because this is how I am designed. We are all designed to become whatever it is we choose to become, and do whatever it is we choose to do. This is why I do not believe that God would design beings to worship. God would seem too intelligent to design something so insincere.