Jesus Christ and Repentance

[Bond-servant of Christ]

What did Jesus Christ, the Highest Authority on all that the Holy Bible Teaches, mean when He says at the start of His earthly Ministry,

“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” (Mark 1:14)

Matthew records Jesus as saying,

“From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (4:17)

In Luke’s Gospel, chapter 13, verses 1-5, again Jesus says;

“There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

There are some, especially from the “reformed” Christians, who reject what the Lord Jesus Christ here very clearly Teaches, that true Biblical “repentance” is not merely changing ones mind on what they though about the God of the Holy Bible, or Jesus Christ; but, that “repentance from sins” is also included. Which is a deep sorrow for sins committed against the God of the Bible, and a willingness to change and turn around and live a life that is worthy of salvation. This was the message preached in the New Testament, By John the Baptist, “And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins” (Luke 3:3), and which Jesus Christ continued to Preach. There is no evidence in the New Testament, that what Jesus Christ Preached on repentance, was any different to what John the Baptist said.

In the Gospel of Matthew 11:20-24, (and other Gospels), Jesus says to those who refused to “repent”, after He had Preached the Gospel:

“Then He began to denounce the cities where most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent. “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.”

The phrase “sackcloth and ashes” signifies extreme sorrow for sins, as we read in Jonah 3:6-9, what the Apostle Pauls calls, "For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death." (2 Cor. 7:10)

“The word reached the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And he issued a proclamation and published through Nineveh, “By the decree of the king and his nobles: Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything. Let them not feed or drink water, but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and let them call out mightily to God. Let everyone turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. Who knows? God may turn and relent and turn from his fierce anger, so that we may not perish.”

And in verse 10 we read, “When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.”

The same of the tax collector in Luke 18:13, “But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’”

Yet there are some who actually mock what the Bible Teaches on “Repentance for the forgiveness of sins”, as though it is a strange Teaching and somehow a “work” that is to “merit” our salvation! Such is the deception of the devil, whereby he has caused some of “the elect” to be fooled that what the Word of God actually Teaches, is not true!

Again the Teachings of Jesus Christ, at the close of His earthly Ministry, when He Commissioned His Disciples to go into all the world, “and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His Name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

This was followed by the Disciples, like the Apostle Peter in his first “sermon”, where we read in Acts 2:37-38:

“Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”

When those who were convicted (cut to the heart) by God the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Gospel by Peter, they said to them “what shall we DO”. Peter did not say to them, “you have to do nothing, simply believe”. No! He clearly tells them to REPENT FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS. Which is what John the Baptist taught, and Jesus Christ.

Sinners are asking this same question “what shall we DO”, and all Christians have a duty to tell them exactly what Jesus Christ, God Incarnate Commanded that we tell them: REPENT FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS, and “BELIEVE IN THE GOSPEL”. This is the ONLY Message for the salvation of lost sinners, to reduce this to no repentance and only faith, is to preach half the Gospel Message, and “another gospel”, which really cannot save any lost souls!

Sadly, there are those who are more concerned about their warped “theology”, who will nonetheless still reject the Teachings of the Holy Bible, and try to argue against what Jesus Christ and the Bible actually says!

 

[Neostarwcc]

What did Jesus Christ, the Highest Authority on all that the Holy Bible Teaches, mean when He says at the start of His earthly Ministry,

“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” (Mark 1:14)

Matthew records Jesus as saying,

“From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (4:17)

In Luke’s Gospel, chapter 13, verses 1-5, again Jesus says;

“There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

There are some, especially from the “reformed” Christians, who reject what the Lord Jesus Christ here very clearly Teaches, that true Biblical “repentance” is not merely changing ones mind on what they though about the God of the Holy Bible, or Jesus Christ; but, that “repentance from sins” is also included. Which is a deep sorrow for sins committed against the God of the Bible, and a willingness to change and turn around and live a life that is worthy of salvation. This was the message preached in the New Testament, By John the Baptist, “And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins” (Luke 3:3), and which Jesus Christ continued to Preach. There is no evidence in the New Testament, that what Jesus Christ Preached on repentance, was any different to what John the Baptist said.

In the Gospel of Matthew 11:20-24, (and other Gospels), Jesus says to those who refused to “repent”, after He had Preached the Gospel:

“Then He began to denounce the cities where most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent. “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.”

The phrase “sackcloth and ashes” signifies extreme sorrow for sins, as we read in Jonah 3:6-9, what the Apostle Pauls calls, "For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death." (2 Cor. 7:10)

“The word reached the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And he issued a proclamation and published through Nineveh, “By the decree of the king and his nobles: Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything. Let them not feed or drink water, but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and let them call out mightily to God. Let everyone turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. Who knows? God may turn and relent and turn from his fierce anger, so that we may not perish.”

And in verse 10 we read, “When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.”

The same of the tax collector in Luke 18:13, “But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’”

Yet there are some who actually mock what the Bible Teaches on “Repentance for the forgiveness of sins”, as though it is a strange Teaching and somehow a “work” that is to “merit” our salvation! Such is the deception of the devil, whereby he has caused some of “the elect” to be fooled that what the Word of God actually Teaches, is not true!

Again the Teachings of Jesus Christ, at the close of His earthly Ministry, when He Commissioned His Disciples to go into all the world, “and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His Name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

This was followed by the Disciples, like the Apostle Peter in his first “sermon”, where we read in Acts 2:37-38:

“Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”

When those who were convicted (cut to the heart) by God the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Gospel by Peter, they said to them “what shall we DO”. Peter did not say to them, “you have to do nothing, simply believe”. No! He clearly tells them to REPENT FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS. Which is what John the Baptist taught, and Jesus Christ.

Sinners are asking this same question “what shall we DO”, and all Christians have a duty to tell them exactly what Jesus Christ, God Incarnate Commanded that we tell them: REPENT FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS, and “BELIEVE IN THE GOSPEL”. This is the ONLY Message for the salvation of lost sinners, to reduce this to no repentance and only faith, is to preach half the Gospel Message, and “another gospel”, which really cannot save any lost souls!

Sadly, there are those who are more concerned about their warped “theology”, who will nonetheless still reject the Teachings of the Holy Bible, and try to argue against what Jesus Christ and the Bible actually says!

+1

 

[Dan1988]

What did Jesus Christ, the Highest Authority on all that the Holy Bible Teaches, mean when He says at the start of His earthly Ministry,

“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” (Mark 1:14)

Matthew records Jesus as saying,

“From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (4:17)

In Luke’s Gospel, chapter 13, verses 1-5, again Jesus says;

“There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

There are some, especially from the “reformed” Christians, who reject what the Lord Jesus Christ here very clearly Teaches, that true Biblical “repentance” is not merely changing ones mind on what they though about the God of the Holy Bible, or Jesus Christ; but, that “repentance from sins” is also included. Which is a deep sorrow for sins committed against the God of the Bible, and a willingness to change and turn around and live a life that is worthy of salvation. This was the message preached in the New Testament, By John the Baptist, “And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins” (Luke 3:3), and which Jesus Christ continued to Preach. There is no evidence in the New Testament, that what Jesus Christ Preached on repentance, was any different to what John the Baptist said.

In the Gospel of Matthew 11:20-24, (and other Gospels), Jesus says to those who refused to “repent”, after He had Preached the Gospel:

“Then He began to denounce the cities where most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent. “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.”

The phrase “sackcloth and ashes” signifies extreme sorrow for sins, as we read in Jonah 3:6-9, what the Apostle Pauls calls, "For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death." (2 Cor. 7:10)

“The word reached the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. And he issued a proclamation and published through Nineveh, “By the decree of the king and his nobles: Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything. Let them not feed or drink water, but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and let them call out mightily to God. Let everyone turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. Who knows? God may turn and relent and turn from his fierce anger, so that we may not perish.”

And in verse 10 we read, “When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.”

The same of the tax collector in Luke 18:13, “But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’”

Yet there are some who actually mock what the Bible Teaches on “Repentance for the forgiveness of sins”, as though it is a strange Teaching and somehow a “work” that is to “merit” our salvation! Such is the deception of the devil, whereby he has caused some of “the elect” to be fooled that what the Word of God actually Teaches, is not true!

Again the Teachings of Jesus Christ, at the close of His earthly Ministry, when He Commissioned His Disciples to go into all the world, “and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His Name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

This was followed by the Disciples, like the Apostle Peter in his first “sermon”, where we read in Acts 2:37-38:

“Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”

When those who were convicted (cut to the heart) by God the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Gospel by Peter, they said to them “what shall we DO”. Peter did not say to them, “you have to do nothing, simply believe”. No! He clearly tells them to REPENT FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS. Which is what John the Baptist taught, and Jesus Christ.

Sinners are asking this same question “what shall we DO”, and all Christians have a duty to tell them exactly what Jesus Christ, God Incarnate Commanded that we tell them: REPENT FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS, and “BELIEVE IN THE GOSPEL”. This is the ONLY Message for the salvation of lost sinners, to reduce this to no repentance and only faith, is to preach half the Gospel Message, and “another gospel”, which really cannot save any lost souls!

Sadly, there are those who are more concerned about their warped “theology”, who will nonetheless still reject the Teachings of the Holy Bible, and try to argue against what Jesus Christ and the Bible actually says!

Could you please tell us where the Bible teaches that the devil deceives "the elect" into not believing what the Word of God teaches.
I've never heard any such thing before, the Bible does say that it's impossible to deceive the elect. So I just wanted to point out that error, the only other concern I have is regarding repentance. My understanding is the Bible teaches that repentance is a gift, which God gives to His elect only and the rest will never repent and be saved.
Saved people still sin everyday until they die, as it's impossible for Christians to live sinless in this life. We still have our old nature lusting and crying out to be fed, so we can't win over it every time. The good news is that Jesus paid for all of our past, present and all future sins.

 

[Monksailor]

I think that "believing" to the writers of the Bible where repentance is not mentioned may have implied repentance for if one believed in Jesus then believing whatever He said went along with such a belief.

The legalistic approach of a finite selection from the Bible to make a point in ignorance or rejection of more encompassing and enlightening verses is sad. People end up committing suicide drinking a "Jim Jones" Kool-Aid following that path. And the physical penalty of such may not be the only penalty, even sadder.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Repent & be Baptized ISN'T the message for today's NT Church/Body of Christ.

It's unfortunate that people invariably, tie the word REPENTANCE to personal every day sins.

There are many OT verses where a SINLESS God repents. Gen 6:6-7, Deut 32:36, Jud 2:18, 1 Sam 15:11 & 29 to name a few.

Repentance: Strong's HEBREW ( H7725:שׁוּב ) - to turn back, return, a wholehearted turning to God.
(NOTE: The different way repent translates in OT Hebrew vs NT Greek. John the Baptist wasn't speaking Greek nor to Greeks)

OT "JEWISH" repentance rituals: rending of garments, wearing sackcloth, sitting in ashes, putting ashes on top of his head, fasting, weeping, wailing. Every Jew at John's baptism was familiar with repentance rituals of turning back to God. (Joel 2:12-13).

The 10 days between the mandatory keep Feasts of: Rosh Hashanah & the Day of Atonement (holiest day of the yr) are known as the - 10 Days of Repentance/Days of Return/10 Days of Awe.

You can't broadly paint/force gentiles into John's baptism:

Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(NOTE: Pre death & resurrection; Gentiles had NO relationship, were strangers living outside the covenants of promise, had NO hope & being without God)

Matt 1:
1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
(NOTE: John the Baptist was preaching in the wilderness of Judaea)

2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(NOTE: Israel! Your God chosen & promised King who literally comes from heaven: Jn 3:3, 16, 6:33, 38, 62, 8:23, 58, 16:28, 17:5, Col 1:16 , 17, Heb 1:2 has arrived).

3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Ezekiel make's three calls, to ISRAEL: Repent! Turn away from your idols & other detestable practices & Return! to the LORD your God. Please reread Eph 2;12 above

John isn't baptizing gentile's in the wilderness of Judaea (Matt 3:1, Mk 1:4, Lk 3:2). Nor do any gentiles receive the baptism via Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit on the Temple Mt on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

I think that "believing" to the writers of the Bible where repentance is not mentioned may have implied repentance for if one believed in Jesus then believing whatever He said went along with such a belief.

The legalistic approach of a finite selection from the Bible to make a point in ignorance or rejection of more encompassing and enlightening verses is sad. People end up committing suicide drinking a "Jim Jones" Kool-Aid following that path. And the physical penalty of such may not be the only penalty, even sadder.

I believe that in places like Acts 16:30-31, where we read, "Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”, where "repentance" is not specifically mentioned, would have been part of the Gospel that Paul taught. Like, in Acts 2:37-38, where the same question is asked, "what must we do to?", to which Peter replies, "repent...for the forgiveness of your sins". Here there is no mention of "believe", like in chapter 16, there is no mention of "repent". No doubt every thing that the Apostles did or said, are not recorded in every place. the overall Message of the Bible must be looked at, and not just pick and chose.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

There are many OT verses where a SINLESS God repents. Gen 6:6-7, Deut 32:36, Jud 2:18, 1 Sam 15:11 & 29 to name a few

The choice of

There are many OT verses where a SINLESS God repents. Gen 6:6-7, Deut 32:36, Jud 2:18, 1 Sam 15:11 & 29 to name a few.

"repent" is wrong when used for God. the Hebrew, "nâcham" is not restricted in its meaning, and does include "to lament, to grieve, to have compassion (on others), to pity, to show mercy". The Greek OT LXX version uses the word, “enthumeomai”; “to think much of deeply of”, “take to heart, be concerned or angry at”. You can see the big difference that the actual word meaning can do to such passages!

 

[Neostarwcc]

and where is "your undersatning" taught in the Holy Bible?

On the elect being deceived, have you not read Matthew 24:24?

"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive (πλανάω, to lead astray, mislead) if possible, even the elect."

So again "your undersatning", that, "the Bible does say that it's impossible to deceive the elect"; is refuted by God Incarnate! Can you give ONE Scripture to back "your undersatning"?

Reformed theology is in many places, especially in relation to Soteriology, is more "theology" and not what the Bible actually teaches. Like to false assumption (deception) that "κόσμος" in John 3:16, is somehow synonyms with "ἐκλεκτός", and that the "whosoever" does not mean the entire human race! Even John Calvin disagrees with "Calvinism" on this very verse!

"That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."

Question on Matthew 24:24. Did Jesus say that it was possible to deceive the elect here? Because when the Bible talks about God's elect it talks about them as being saved once for all (Jn 6:37-40, Jn 10:27-30, Heb 10:14, 1 Peter 1:1-5, Rev 3:5 ...etc.).

So how could it be possible to deceive the elect if God is making sure they're saved? With God on our side, how can we fail?

 

[Dan1988]

and where is "your undersatning" taught in the Holy Bible?

On the elect being deceived, have you not read Matthew 24:24?

"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive (πλανάω, to lead astray, mislead) if possible, even the elect."

So again "your undersatning", that, "the Bible does say that it's impossible to deceive the elect"; is refuted by God Incarnate! Can you give ONE Scripture to back "your undersatning"?

Reformed theology is in many places, especially in relation to Soteriology, is more "theology" and not what the Bible actually teaches. Like to false assumption (deception) that "κόσμος" in John 3:16, is somehow synonyms with "ἐκλεκτός", and that the "whosoever" does not mean the entire human race! Even John Calvin disagrees with "Calvinism" on this very verse!

"That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."

I would encourage you to find yourself a faithful shepherd, to teach you the scriptures as it seems you don't know the very basics.
As for the gift of repentance, it should be obvious that nobody will ever repent unless God gives them the gift of repentance. The Bible tells us that we're all born sinners, as such we hate God and love sin. So why would anyone decide to stop loving what they love and start loving what they hate.
There are 5 verses that come to mind regarding repentance and each shows that it's God who gives repentance. Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18, 2 Tim 2:25, Romans 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9

How could you possibly not understand the plain words of Jesus, when He said "to deceive IF POSSIBLE the very elect". What does "if possible" mean, let me help you with this. It means it's not possible, like pigs could fly if possible but they can't fly because it's impossible.

Also please explain how you arrived at the conclusion that "whosoever" means everyone. And how you arrived at the conclusion that the word "world" means everyone. Why didn't God just say "everyone" if that's what He meant. Is He the author of confusion, does He play word games.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Question on Matthew 24:24. Did Jesus say that it was possible to deceive the elect here? Because when the Bible talks about God's elect it talks about them as being saved once for all (Jn 6:37-40, Jn 10:27-30, Heb 10:14, 1 Peter 1:1-5, Rev 3:5 ...etc.).

So how could it be possible to deceive the elect if God is making sure they're saved? With God on our side, how can we fail?

can you then explain the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:24? They are very clear, the NASB gets it as close to the Greek as possible, "so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." There is no other way to take these words, but as a clear warning! There are many true Christians who have been deceived on many issues. Like those who accept abortion, or homosexuality, as being ok with the Lord! and those who against Scripture divorce and remarry.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

I would encourage you to find yourself a faithful shepherd, to teach you the scriptures as it seems you don't know the very basics

such is your arrogance! and shows your ignorance!

 

[Neostarwcc]

can you then explain the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:24? They are very clear, the NASB gets it as close to the Greek as possible, "so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." There is no other way to take these words, but as a clear warning! There are many true Christians who have been deceived on many issues. Like those who accept abortion, or homosexuality, as being ok with the Lord! and those who against Scripture divorce and remarry.

Yes, but a permanent "deception" or departing from the faith if you will is impossible. Unless you're calling Jesus and the apostles liars in the verses I quoted plus more. The bible all over speaks of how God keeps and guards the elect in the faith. It's not just one verse. Here's another: Ephesians 1:13-14:

"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory."

Or how about more words of Jesus? Jn 14:16-17

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.


Last I checked the word forever meant for all time. Matthew 24:24 could be a warning like you say, but I don't think it's a loss of salvation warning. Possibly it's a warning about loss of rewards? *shrug*. I mean Jesus did say "if possible" also. His statement of "if possible" could mean "It's impossible." if you looked at it that way. Maybe I just answered my own question with it being impossible because, if it were possible to lose your salvation by being deceived than Christ and the apostles were liars and we should all rip out nearly all of our New Testament.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

How could you possibly not understand the plain words of Jesus, when He said "to deceive IF POSSIBLE the very elect". What does "if possible" mean, let me help you with this. It means it's not possible, like pigs could fly if possible but they can't fly because it's impossible.

now I can see that you need to read the Bible for what IT says, and without your theological spin! If what Jesus says in Matthew 24:24, were not "possible", then exactly WHY did He say this? Is it just for the sake of saying the impossible? You guys are full of nonsense!

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

Yes, but a permanent "deception" or departing from the faith if you will is impossible. Unless you're calling Jesus and the apostles liars in the verses I quoted plus more. The bible all over speaks of how God keeps and guards the elect in the faith. It's not just one verse. Here's another: Ephesians 1:13-14:

"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory."

Or how about more words of Jesus? Jn 14:16-17

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.


Last I checked the word forever meant for all time. Matthew 24:24 could be a warning like you say, but I don't think it's a loss of salvation warning. Possibly it's a warning about loss of rewards? *shrug*. I mean Jesus did say "if possible" also. His statement of "if possible" could mean "It's impossible." if you looked at it that way. Maybe I just answered my own question with it being impossible because, if it were possible to lose your salvation by being deceived than Christ and the apostles were liars and we should all rip out nearly all of our New Testament.

There are very sadly many who have forsaken their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, who were truly saved, and served as Pastors for many years, and preached the Evangelical Gospel, and then "fell away". One such sad story is an Evangelical Reformed Pastor here in England, who abandoned his faith and Pastorship and his family over 20 years ago, when he became a homosexual, for which he still holds to. Roy Clements - Wikipedia

Another is Bart D. Ehrman - Wikipedia

Don't bury your head in theology but look at reality!

 

[Dan1988]

now I can see that you need to read the Bible for what IT says, and without your theological spin! If what Jesus says in Matthew 24:24, were not "possible", then exactly WHY did He say this? Is it just for the sake of saying the impossible? You guys are full of nonsense!

Please don't feel threatened by those who don't share your view, as it actually demonstrates your insecurity about what you actually claim to believe.
Jesus warned His disciples and His elect, to beware of false prophets who will come into the Church to cause trouble.
These wolves in sheep's clothing come into a Church and work their way up with the intention to destroy the Church and cause the elect to lose their faith. But since these wolves don't know that it's impossible they will keep trying and they will cause a lot of trouble for the Church but they will never cause a single elect of God to lose their salvation.
.

 

[Dan1988]

There are very sadly many who have forsaken their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, who were truly saved, and served as Pastors for many years, and preached the Evangelical Gospel, and then "fell away". One such sad story is an Evangelical Reformed Pastor here in England, who abandoned his faith and Pastorship and his family over 20 years ago, when he became a homosexual, for which he still holds to. Roy Clements - Wikipedia

Another is Bart D. Ehrman - Wikipedia

Don't bury your head in theology but look at reality!

The only place we need to bury our head is in theology (the study of God), don't you believe that it's more important to learn about God then about some Sodomite who posed as a shepherd before he was exposed as a wolf and false prophet.
Don't be deceived by these Sodomites, Jesus said many will come to Him on that day saying Lord Lord, but He will say "depart from Me into the everlasting fire, for I never knew you".
Please don't trust everyone who claims to be a Christian, for may false prophets will arise.

 

[Bond-servant of Christ]

The only place we need to bury our head is in theology (the study of God), don't you believe that it's more important to learn about God then about some Sodomite who posed as a shepherd before he was exposed as a wolf and false prophet.
Don't be deceived by these Sodomites, Jesus said many will come to Him on that day saying Lord Lord, but He will say "depart from Me into the everlasting fire, for I never knew you".
Please don't trust everyone who claims to be a Christian, for may false prophets will arise.

Take note of what you say and read the Bible and not calvin

 

[BrotherJJ]

The choice of

"repent" is wrong when used for God. the Hebrew, "nâcham" is not restricted in its meaning, and does include "to lament, to grieve, to have compassion (on others), to pity, to show mercy". The Greek OT LXX version uses the word, “enthumeomai”; “to think much of deeply of”, “take to heart, be concerned or angry at”. You can see the big difference that the actual word meaning can do to such passages!

My post didn't claim the word repent in Hebrew was restricted to one meaning. In fact it explains the opposite. Earlier posts in this thread broad brushed the word & place personal sin as it's only application. I pointed out when put into proper context the word it can have different meanings.

An OT reference to a sinless God was 1 example. John a Jew under Mosaic law, preaching to a wilderness full of Jews also under the law.

In context, John is telling Jews under covenant seals to return to the Lord your God. He's not speaking Greek or to Greeks. And you can't force every reader (any gentiles at all Eph 2:12) into his baptism of repentance message.

Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
(NOTE: John the Baptist is sent to preach, the Baptism of Repentance to All the People of ISRAEL. To Prepare the way for the coming LORD. Isa 40:3, Matt 3:3, Mk 1:3, Lk 3:4. Through whom remission/pardon/forgiveness of sin would be realized)

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(MY NOTE: John is sent to preach the "baptism of repentance". To PREPARE the people to believe on Christ who would later remit/forgive/pardon their sins.)

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
(MY NOTE: Without Christ's shed blood there is NO Remission/Pardon/Forgiveness for sins.)

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(MY NOTE: It's Belief/faith in Christ's sinless shed blood & resurrection that provides the Remission/Pardon for sins. A sinless Jesus had to pay sins required wage/DEATH before anyone's sins could be forgiven)

Baptized twice! Once by John/in preparation to meet the Lord

And a 2nd time: In Jesus Name for the remission/forgiveness/pardon from sin. Christ had/has to die before any sins are forgiven

Acts 19:4 Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(NOTE: John the Baptist is sent to Jews only, to preach the Baptism of Repentance. That they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.)

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(NOTE: John's baptism COULDN'T remiss sin. They are BAPTIZED AGAIN in Jesus name, for the remission/pardon of sin!)

Water baptism doesn't remiss/pardon/forgive sin, repentance doesn't remiss/pardon sin, obedience doesn't remiss/pardon sin, sabbath observance doesn't remiss/pardon sin, tithing doesn't remiss/pardon sin etc.

Repent & be baptized isn't the message for the NT believer.

Today's message is: BELIEVE & trust that Christ died for your sins was buried & rose on the 3dr day. 1 Cor 15:1-4.

 

[Monksailor]

Repent & be Baptized ISN'T the message for today's NT Church/Body of Christ.

It's unfortunate that people invariably, tie the word REPENTANCE to personal every day sins.

There are many OT verses where a SINLESS God repents. Gen 6:6-7, Deut 32:36, Jud 2:18, 1 Sam 15:11 & 29 to name a few.

Repentance: Strong's HEBREW ( H7725:שׁוּב ) - to turn back, return, a wholehearted turning to God.
(NOTE: The different way repent translates in OT Hebrew vs NT Greek. John the Baptist wasn't speaking Greek nor to Greeks)

OT "JEWISH" repentance rituals: rending of garments, wearing sackcloth, sitting in ashes, putting ashes on top of his head, fasting, weeping, wailing. Every Jew at John's baptism was familiar with repentance rituals of turning back to God. (Joel 2:12-13).

The 10 days between the mandatory keep Feasts of: Rosh Hashanah & the Day of Atonement (holiest day of the yr) are known as the - 10 Days of Repentance/Days of Return/10 Days of Awe.

You can't broadly paint/force gentiles into John's baptism:

Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(NOTE: Pre death & resurrection; Gentiles had NO relationship, were strangers living outside the covenants of promise, had NO hope & being without God)

Matt 1:
1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
(NOTE: John the Baptist was preaching in the wilderness of Judaea)

2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(NOTE: Israel! Your God chosen & promised King who literally comes from heaven: Jn 3:3, 16, 6:33, 38, 62, 8:23, 58, 16:28, 17:5, Col 1:16 , 17, Heb 1:2 has arrived).

3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Ezekiel make's three calls, to ISRAEL: Repent! Turn away from your idols & other detestable practices & Return! to the LORD your God. Please reread Eph 2;12 above

John isn't baptizing gentile's in the wilderness of Judaea (Matt 3:1, Mk 1:4, Lk 3:2). Nor do any gentiles receive the baptism via Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit on the Temple Mt on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2.

As long as I can remember that is what repentance means and in 5 yrs I will have been a born-again child of God a half-century and I was saved as an adult. I truly cannot conceive how anyone can misinterpret the word repentance in the Bible. It is so clear that one should turn from their sinful ways, from their overall perspectives on life and turn to God's (Proverbs 3:5-6; Romans 12:1-2.) As the Bible goes on and as we grow even as a babe in Christ we learn we are to incorporate/ assimilate Christ's ways, God's ways as ours and abandon our former ways. He is now our most significant other and will always be, our adoptive Father and King of which the realm we are now citizens.

 

[Dan1988]

Take note of what you say and read the Bible and not calvin

I never mentioned Calvin, so I have no idea where you got that notion. I get the sense that you're insecure about what you actually believe.
If you believe what God has said, then you must believe that God chooses to save only His elect. The non elect will never come to repentance, because they hate God and His ways. They are in bondage to serve sin and Satan and they have absolutely no power to change their nature or desire.
I see you guys who don't believe in the sovereignty of God, cherry pick the Bible and ignore every scripture which speaks of God's sovereignty.

Every word in the Bible is God's inerrant Word from cover to cover, so we can't just ignore the parts we don't like if they don't conform to our standards. We don't have the right to question anything God said, ours is to believe and not judge God according to our wicked standards.