"Jesus Camp" and Madrassas Schools

[christalee4]

http://www.tvguide.com/detail/movie.aspx?tvobjectid=282748&more=ucmoviereview

http://www.filmmakermagazine.com/fall2006/features/holy_war.php

http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/filmforum/060921.html

I recently saw "Jesus Camp" and was intrigued by the fact that the pastor in charge of the program, the Rev. Becky Fischer, mentioned more than once the comparison of raising Christian children to similar heights of fervour as some fundamentalist children are in the conservative madrassas schools. Pastor Fischer seems to think that it's mandatory that Christian parents not only to homeschool their children, but also raise them with such a strong faith that they would be willing to die for their religion, as she believes the Muslims, who are perceived to the enemies, are raising their children that way. Several of the children in the documentary, including Rachael and Levi, very articular and well-spoken kids, indicated calmly and cheerfully that they would indeed give their lives up for their faith, if sent to to a foreign country, as an example. The children are clearly taught that one must be Christian, and if one is not, then they either must be saved, or are the enemy in a war.

If it is important to spread the seeds of faith throughout the land and the world, how moral is it to use innocent children as part of that perceived culture war against fundamentalist faith, whether it is Islam or Christianity? The high level of intensity in the brainwashing of children in the madrassas, and in Jesus Camp seems to indicate that the adults want to leave nothing up to chance, and therefore to prevent "backsliding", will go to extreme lengths to insure that the children don't stray.

It's tragic enough that children around the world in some third world countries in Africa and Asia have been press-ganged into being soldiers. Is this not similar, and shouldn't it be stopped?

 

[Skaloop]

The extreme indoctrination of children is perhaps the single most despicable aspect of fundemantalist religion (of any denomination). It is child abuse, plain and simple. And it is the only thing that genuinely scares me about religion; most things fall under a live-and-let-live or different-strokes umbrella. Even though I disagree, they are pretty much harmless beliefs.

Brainwashing children, essentially from birth, to be killers in the name of their faith, whichever faith that is, is reprehensible enough on its own. But it also robs these children of their opportunity to lead a valuable life. It turns them into robotic martyrs for a cause they cannot even comprehend.

Fortunately, the numbers of people who partake in this practice are still the minority amongst Christians.

 

[loudatheist101]

These kids' lives are destroyed. All they do MUST flatter their god, or they believe they will be tortured in hell. It's too bad. They can't read Harry Potter, they can't tell ghost stories, they can't question what all these people tell them exists, and they just, basically, cannot be a kid.

"In Jesus' name, we pray that You do not allow the Power Point to go off" This made me lol.

 

[momalle1]

http://www.tvguide.com/detail/movie.aspx?tvobjectid=282748&more=ucmoviereview

http://www.filmmakermagazine.com/fall2006/features/holy_war.php

http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/filmforum/060921.html

I recently saw "Jesus Camp" and was intrigued by the fact that the pastor in charge of the program, the Rev. Becky Fischer, mentioned more than once the comparison of raising Christian children to similar heights of fervour as some fundamentalist children are in the conservative madrassas schools. Pastor Fischer seems to think that it's mandatory that Christian parents not only to homeschool their children, but also raise them with such a strong faith that they would be willing to die for their religion, as she believes the Muslims, who are perceived to the enemies, are raising their children that way. Several of the children in the documentary, including Rachael and Levi, very articular and well-spoken kids, indicated calmly and cheerfully that they would indeed give their lives up for their faith, if sent to to a foreign country, as an example. The children are clearly taught that one must be Christian, and if one is not, then they either must be saved, or are the enemy in a war.

If it is important to spread the seeds of faith throughout the land and the world, how moral is it to use innocent children as part of that perceived culture war against fundamentalist faith, whether it is Islam or Christianity? The high level of intensity in the brainwashing of children in the madrassas, and in Jesus Camp seems to indicate that the adults want to leave nothing up to chance, and therefore to prevent "backsliding", will go to extreme lengths to insure that the children don't stray.

It's tragic enough that children around the world in some third world countries in Africa and Asia have been press-ganged into being soldiers. Is this not similar, and shouldn't it be stopped?

You don't think that many supporters of the war in Iraq view this as a religious war? They couldn't care less about terrorism or oil, that's simply validation. They are not only expecting the end of the world, they want to help it along. They send bucket loads of money to Israel so the temple can be rebuilt and usher Armeggedon in.

What's odd is these people claim the public school system is indoctrinating and brainwashing children. They don't mind brainwashing though, they just want to do it themselves. They also like to point to Muslims as setting thier children up to be martyrs, anyone else see the irony?

According to Ron Luce of the National Association of Evangelicals,

"Despite their packed megachurches, their political clout and their increasing visibility on the national stage, evangelical Christian leaders are warning one another that their teenagers are abandoning the faith in droves. "

"
Their alarm has been stoked by a highly suspect claim that if current trends continue, only 4 percent of teenagers will be “Bible-believing Christians” as adults. That would be a sharp decline compared with 35 percent of the current generation of baby boomers, and before that, 65 percent of the World War II generation.
While some critics say the statistics are greatly exaggerated (one evangelical magazine for youth ministers dubbed it “the 4 percent panic attack&#8221, there is widespread consensus among evangelical leaders that they risk losing their teenagers. "

Whole story here . Maybe people don't like having things forced on them.

 

[Harpuia]

You don't think that many supporters of the war in Iraq view this as a religious war? They couldn't care less about terrorism or oil, that's simply validation. They are not only expecting the end of the world, they want to help it along. They send bucket loads of money to Israel so the temple can be rebuilt and usher Armeggedon in.

What's odd is these people claim the public school system is indoctrinating and brainwashing children. They don't mind brainwashing though, they just want to do it themselves. They also like to point to Muslims as setting thier children up to be martyrs, anyone else see the irony?

According to Ron Luce of the National Association of Evangelicals,

"Despite their packed megachurches, their political clout and their increasing visibility on the national stage, evangelical Christian leaders are warning one another that their teenagers are abandoning the faith in droves. "

"
Their alarm has been stoked by a highly suspect claim that if current trends continue, only 4 percent of teenagers will be “Bible-believing Christians” as adults. That would be a sharp decline compared with 35 percent of the current generation of baby boomers, and before that, 65 percent of the World War II generation.
While some critics say the statistics are greatly exaggerated (one evangelical magazine for youth ministers dubbed it “the 4 percent panic attack&#8221, there is widespread consensus among evangelical leaders that they risk losing their teenagers. "

Whole story here . Maybe people don't like having things forced on them.

Luce later on used this quote as a basis to create one of the most namb-nutty Christian groups in history with BattleCry, just to add.

The only problem is with all the cautiousness the parents are doing, they're causing the backsliding in the first place. It probably depends on the psychology of the child itself, as anyone's different, but the parents seem to hold this one-size-fits-all mentality that all children will eventually be pulled to Satanic/occult things.

- Harry Potter bored me to tears.

- Dungeons & Dragons was about as fun as my Pet Rock.

- And who really even LIKES MTV now and days?

Yet according to these people, I'm supposed to be magically pulled to all three of these things without proper Christian sheltering. I wasn't sheltered, and I liked none of these three.

Proof enough?

 

[flicka]

Yet according to these people, I'm supposed to be magically pulled to all three of these things without proper Christian sheltering

The key is 'magical thinking'. Once you accept the supernatural it's easier to accept ALL other-worldy kinds of things. It's sometimes hard to know where to draw the line I guess.

 

[christalee4]

Towards the end of the "Jesus Camp" film, some of the children in the program were taken to Washington D.C. to help stage a small anti-abortion protest. One of the most talkative and frighteningly earnest of the children, Rachael, went round with some cartoon tracts with a few others from the group and tried to witness to two older black men sitting on lawn chairs outside on the lawn. She didn't care for their answers when she asked them if they knew they were going to heaven when they died (they said yes), and the camera caught her muttering "They must be Muslims." Likewise, my son's best friend, who is Jewish, over the years from elementary school through to high school has heard many times from well-meaning children in school that he is going to hell, that his people killed Jesus, or worse, that Jews got what they deserved as God's judgement.

Children learn these things from their parents, and surely religious hatred expressed now is no different than what was taught to white children about racist attitudes in the early 1900's up to the present.

 

[Followers4christ]

http://www.tvguide.com/detail/movie.aspx?tvobjectid=282748&more=ucmoviereview

http://www.filmmakermagazine.com/fall2006/features/holy_war.php

http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/filmforum/060921.html

I recently saw "Jesus Camp" and was intrigued by the fact that the pastor in charge of the program, the Rev. Becky Fischer, mentioned more than once the comparison of raising Christian children to similar heights of fervour as some fundamentalist children are in the conservative madrassas schools. Pastor Fischer seems to think that it's mandatory that Christian parents not only to homeschool their children, but also raise them with such a strong faith that they would be willing to die for their religion, as she believes the Muslims, who are perceived to the enemies, are raising their children that way. Several of the children in the documentary, including Rachael and Levi, very articular and well-spoken kids, indicated calmly and cheerfully that they would indeed give their lives up for their faith, if sent to to a foreign country, as an example. The children are clearly taught that one must be Christian, and if one is not, then they either must be saved, or are the enemy in a war.

If it is important to spread the seeds of faith throughout the land and the world, how moral is it to use innocent children as part of that perceived culture war against fundamentalist faith, whether it is Islam or Christianity? The high level of intensity in the brainwashing of children in the madrassas, and in Jesus Camp seems to indicate that the adults want to leave nothing up to chance, and therefore to prevent "backsliding", will go to extreme lengths to insure that the children don't stray.

It's tragic enough that children around the world in some third world countries in Africa and Asia have been press-ganged into being soldiers. Is this not similar, and shouldn't it be stopped?

There is nothing wrong about training the younger generation to fight for this generation.We must teach all children to take a stand and to be willing to give up their lives for Christ.The Children of God are at war regardless if they know it or not.With the media telling them what to wear and how to act, and with victoria showing all her secrets.Are we going to allow the media and popular culture to shape/enslave the younger generation or are we going to take a stand against the corrupting influences of this society? We must teach them to put on the full armor of God and fight as a soldier in God's army.God Bless

2 Timothy 2:3-4 "Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus.No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants to please his commanding officer."

2 Corinthians 10:4-5 "The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."

Ephesians 6:10-12 "Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

 

[Followers4christ]

"Despite their packed megachurches, their political clout and their increasing visibility on the national stage, evangelical Christian leaders are warning one another that their teenagers are abandoning the faith in droves. "

Just because alot of people go to church or mega-churches does not make them Christians.We are caught in the middle of a Battle for the hearts and minds of this generation....



Christian. Has the word lost its meaning? Some call themselves by that name simply because they go to church, believe in God, or live in country where it is part of the culture.

"Yeah, I’m a Christian I believe in God."
"My parents are Christians."
"I go to church."
"I’m a good person."

And what about the musician or artist who thanks God after receiving an award, and later uses His name as a curse or profanity? Or the person who attends church every Sunday only to spend the other six days of the week denying God with their lifestyle? For these people, Christianity is only a label, at the most something to associate with. They, like many others, are cultural Christians.

Cultural Christians always do the "right thing," but never quite know what the heart is behind those things. They love step-by-step teachings and follow them to the best of their abilities. Grace also happens to be a helpful tool they can use to cover up all those little sins they didn’t really try very hard to avoid anyway. When it comes down to it, their foundation is built on a single altar call moment. They have "accepted" Jesus, of course, but only occasionally think about maybe, possibly, making Him the Lord of their lives. On the outside, they may look and sound Christian, but deep down inside, something is missing.

Being a Christian is more than calling yourself one. It means being committed to Christ and being one of His followers. The cultural Christian may be involved with Christian things, but being fully committed to Christ is another story. Out of the millions of people in America who call themselves Christians, many of them are far from the real thing. However, a group of remarkably different people is standing apart from the crowd.

The desire of the BattleCry Campaign is to raise up an army of extraordinary believers, young and old alike, who refuse to live as cultural Christians. If we want this generation and this country to be forever changed by God, then someone, all of us, need to step up. Are you willing to abandon complacent, compromising, and passionless Christianity for the life of a wholehearted, uncompromising, passionate follower of Christ? If so, it is time to embrace the lifestyle of a revolutionary Christian.

Revolutionaries are not satisfied with just going to church or youth group week in and week out. Activities, rituals, and routines are not the point. Instead, connecting with God and knowing Him more are what matter most. When it comes to their faith, staying young and ignorant of it is not an option. They do what it takes to grow, and they have completely surrendered themselves to God in all areas of life. They have given up control and are like soldiers, ready to answer the orders of their Commanding Officer.

For them, life is not about making the most of things now; instead, for revolutionaries, it is all about impacting the life to come. In everything they do, eternity is on the forefront of their hearts and minds. Whether in their careers, families, or relationships with others, they seek to make a difference in this life in order to affect the next.

A revolutionary’s attitude also separates him from the rest. Since they know who they are and Who they believe in, they live confidently and fearlessly. They know the big picture and have every reason to be optimistic because they trust God and His promises. Above all, they live honorable and virtuous lives, not only because it is the right thing to do, but because it is God’s standard. Why would they do anything except obey Him?

To the revolutionary, godly character is essential. Jesus could not have made the impact he did if His lifestyle did not back up His words. In the same way, revolutionaries follow His example. They are people who live out what they say they believe in and base their lives on the principles of God’s word. Their integrity, excellence, hard work, honor, humility, and other strengths of character distinguish them from the culture and people around them. Though they are not perfect, they try to live as Jesus lived and stand out as bright lights in a very dark world.

When others look at them, their lives reflect the love of God. A line from an old hymn says, "They will know that we are Christians by our love." Their love for people is only surpassed by their love for God, Another quote says that "No man is an island." Revolutionaries understand that as a Christian, solid relationships with other passionate Christians are essential for living a vibrant and effective life. Not only are these relationships a source of friendship, but also of encouragement and accountability. Together, they grow and push each other closer to God.


When revolutionaries stick out from the crowd, cultural Christians blend in with society because of their lack of passion and spiritual maturity. Often times, a closer look at a cultural Christian’s life reveals little or no difference between them and non-Christians.

Simply put, revolutionaries love God with their whole heart, mind, and soul. They have counted the cost and surrendered their lives to Him. They live out Luke 9:22-23 (NIV), which says: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it."

The message of the BattleCry is to create revolutionary people who will fight, not a physical battle, but a spiritual battle for the hearts, minds, and souls of this generation. It exists to challenge young people and adults alike to abandon cultural Christianity and dive head-first into the committed lifestyle of a revolutionary. We must realize that if we do not act now, an estimated meager 4% of this generation of teenagers will be Christians when they reach adulthood. We must reach them now! Will you join the revolution?

Enlist in the BattleCry Coalition.

(Quoted with permission...) http://www.battlecry.com/pages/cultural_christianity.php

 

[momalle1]

Just because alot of people go to church or mega-churches does not make them Christians.We are caught in the middle of a Battle for the hearts and minds of this generation....

I never said it did, but the megachurches are the invention and crowned jewel of Evangelists. And yes, the hearts and minds of children are important. Why not give them all available information and let them make thier own choices? Do we not trust our children? Can we not lead by example rather than indoctrination?

Brainwashing is brainwashing and is alaways bad, usually does more harm than good, and as the article states, it's not very effective.

 

[Followers4christ]

I never said it did, but the megachurches are the invention and crowned jewel of Evangelists. And yes, the hearts and minds of children are important. Why not give them all available information and let them make thier own choices? Do we not trust our children? Can we not lead by example rather than indoctrination?

Brainwashing is brainwashing and is alaways bad, usually does more harm than good, and as the article states, it's not very effective.

I do not see any sort of Brain washing in Jesus Camp nor do we brain wash people in the BattleCry events.In Jesus Camp the youth pastor is teaching the kids to obey God and to surrender their lives to Christ.But at the end of the day the choice is theirs to accept Christ or not.They do not force them to go to Jesus Camp it was up to the parents and the children to attend that summer camp or not.The youth pastor did her job by teaching the kids to follow christ and the parents did their job by training their kids to become warriors for Christ.

This young generation is already being indoctrinated by the media and popular culture,but nobody seems to notice it.God Bless

 

[momalle1]

I do not see any sort of Brain washing in Jesus Camp nor do we brain wash people in the BattleCry events.In Jesus Camp the youth pastor is teaching the kids to obey God and to surrender their lives to Christ.But at the end of the day the choice is theirs to accept Christ or not.They do not force them to go to Jesus Camp it was up to the parents and the children to attend that summer camp or not.The youth pastor did her job by teaching the kids to follow christ and the parents did their job by training their kids to become warriors for Christ.

This young generation is already being indoctrinated by the media and popular culture,but nobody seems to notice it.God Bless

By the same token, according to you, it would be up to people to accept what the media and popular culture gives them?

 

[christalee4]

I do not see any sort of Brain washing in Jesus Camp nor do we brain wash people in the BattleCry events.In Jesus Camp the youth pastor is teaching the kids to obey God and to surrender their lives to Christ.But at the end of the day the choice is theirs to accept Christ or not.They do not force them to go to Jesus Camp it was up to the parents and the children to attend that summer camp or not.The youth pastor did her job by teaching the kids to follow christ and the parents did their job by training their kids to become warriors for Christ.

This young generation is already being indoctrinated by the media and popular culture,but nobody seems to notice it.God Bless

Here are some tenets of cult-style brainwashing, which can be incorporated into any religion or program:

- teaching that only the program is the source of all happiness and life.

- the separation from others who do not share your beliefs, socially and family members.

- that any other philosophy, discussion, questioning is disloyal, evil and unfaithful. Backsliding is punished with emotional blackmail, condemnation or rejection.

- control of a person's life, down to what they do, who they associate with, how often they pray, show up in church.

- reinforcing the notion that obedience to the program is the primary goal. Disobedience is punished. Independent thought and action are discouraged.

- reinforcing the idea that only the members of the program are righteous and pure in spirit. All others are not faithful enough, or just plain mislead, or evil.

- "Love-bombing" the convert in between indoctrination; positive reinforcement of love and attention. So the more the person speaks in "code" that affirms the beliefs of the program, the more they are loved.

- encouragement of a persecution complex within the program; that anyone who questions the tenets of the program are "against" the program, or are trying to oppress or destroy the cult.

- Encouragement of perception that "we" are at war against "them",and that we must take over in order to survive. This is especially odious in the light of religious fervour, as because God wills it, therefore it becomes a divine right, and thus encourages a "whatever it takes" approach.

Indoctrination of individuals towards towards a common goal of "victory" leads to fascism, by the very nature of the "us and them" war concept.

The fact that you have already sub-categorized Christians who are "not faithful enough" as "cultural Christians" indeed reveals that many in faith turn against their own for not being religious enough, holy enough or believing enough, just as the Sunni and Shi-ite Muslims also have their differences.

 

[christalee4]

There is nothing wrong about training the younger generation to fight for this generation.We must teach all children to take a stand and to be willing to give up their lives for Christ.The Children of God are at war regardless if they know it or not.With the media telling them what to wear and how to act, and with victoria showing all her secrets.Are we going to allow the media and popular culture to shape/enslave the younger generation or are we going to take a stand against the corrupting influences of this society? We must teach them to put on the full armor of God and fight as a soldier in God's army.God Bless

2 Timothy 2:3-4 "Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus.No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants to please his commanding officer."

2 Corinthians 10:4-5 "The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."

Ephesians 6:10-12 "Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

Do you think it's okay to teach children to kill in the name of God?

 

[Harpuia]

Just because alot of people go to church or mega-churches does not make them Christians.We are caught in the middle of a Battle for the hearts and minds of this generation....



Christian. Has the word lost its meaning? Some call themselves by that name simply because they go to church, believe in God, or live in country where it is part of the culture.

"Yeah, I’m a Christian I believe in God."
"My parents are Christians."
"I go to church."
"I’m a good person."

And what about the musician or artist who thanks God after receiving an award, and later uses His name as a curse or profanity? Or the person who attends church every Sunday only to spend the other six days of the week denying God with their lifestyle? For these people, Christianity is only a label, at the most something to associate with. They, like many others, are cultural Christians.

Cultural Christians always do the "right thing," but never quite know what the heart is behind those things. They love step-by-step teachings and follow them to the best of their abilities. Grace also happens to be a helpful tool they can use to cover up all those little sins they didn’t really try very hard to avoid anyway. When it comes down to it, their foundation is built on a single altar call moment. They have "accepted" Jesus, of course, but only occasionally think about maybe, possibly, making Him the Lord of their lives. On the outside, they may look and sound Christian, but deep down inside, something is missing.

Being a Christian is more than calling yourself one. It means being committed to Christ and being one of His followers. The cultural Christian may be involved with Christian things, but being fully committed to Christ is another story. Out of the millions of people in America who call themselves Christians, many of them are far from the real thing. However, a group of remarkably different people is standing apart from the crowd.

The desire of the BattleCry Campaign is to raise up an army of extraordinary believers, young and old alike, who refuse to live as cultural Christians. If we want this generation and this country to be forever changed by God, then someone, all of us, need to step up. Are you willing to abandon complacent, compromising, and passionless Christianity for the life of a wholehearted, uncompromising, passionate follower of Christ? If so, it is time to embrace the lifestyle of a revolutionary Christian.

Revolutionaries are not satisfied with just going to church or youth group week in and week out. Activities, rituals, and routines are not the point. Instead, connecting with God and knowing Him more are what matter most. When it comes to their faith, staying young and ignorant of it is not an option. They do what it takes to grow, and they have completely surrendered themselves to God in all areas of life. They have given up control and are like soldiers, ready to answer the orders of their Commanding Officer.

For them, life is not about making the most of things now; instead, for revolutionaries, it is all about impacting the life to come. In everything they do, eternity is on the forefront of their hearts and minds. Whether in their careers, families, or relationships with others, they seek to make a difference in this life in order to affect the next.

A revolutionary’s attitude also separates him from the rest. Since they know who they are and Who they believe in, they live confidently and fearlessly. They know the big picture and have every reason to be optimistic because they trust God and His promises. Above all, they live honorable and virtuous lives, not only because it is the right thing to do, but because it is God’s standard. Why would they do anything except obey Him?

To the revolutionary, godly character is essential. Jesus could not have made the impact he did if His lifestyle did not back up His words. In the same way, revolutionaries follow His example. They are people who live out what they say they believe in and base their lives on the principles of God’s word. Their integrity, excellence, hard work, honor, humility, and other strengths of character distinguish them from the culture and people around them. Though they are not perfect, they try to live as Jesus lived and stand out as bright lights in a very dark world.

When others look at them, their lives reflect the love of God. A line from an old hymn says, "They will know that we are Christians by our love." Their love for people is only surpassed by their love for God, Another quote says that "No man is an island." Revolutionaries understand that as a Christian, solid relationships with other passionate Christians are essential for living a vibrant and effective life. Not only are these relationships a source of friendship, but also of encouragement and accountability. Together, they grow and push each other closer to God.


When revolutionaries stick out from the crowd, cultural Christians blend in with society because of their lack of passion and spiritual maturity. Often times, a closer look at a cultural Christian’s life reveals little or no difference between them and non-Christians.

Simply put, revolutionaries love God with their whole heart, mind, and soul. They have counted the cost and surrendered their lives to Him. They live out Luke 9:22-23 (NIV), which says: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it."

The message of the BattleCry is to create revolutionary people who will fight, not a physical battle, but a spiritual battle for the hearts, minds, and souls of this generation. It exists to challenge young people and adults alike to abandon cultural Christianity and dive head-first into the committed lifestyle of a revolutionary. We must realize that if we do not act now, an estimated meager 4% of this generation of teenagers will be Christians when they reach adulthood. We must reach them now! Will you join the revolution?

Enlist in the BattleCry Coalition.

(Quoted with permission...) http://www.battlecry.com/pages/cultural_christianity.php

Simply put... no.

And I hope sometime, hopefully in the near future, Ron Luce, the rest of the BattleCry staff, and every teen who supported them diehardingly will be arrested for war crimes. If anything, they are the real danger to America, even moreso than Hollywood. He wants war, well he better pay the price should he (and he will) lose the war too.

 

[Mling]

Here's what convinced me that the Jesus-camp is complete brainwashing:
a young boy, maybe 9 to 11 years old saying
"I became a Christian when I was 5, because I just wanted so much more out of life!" His eyes were half-lidded, with a big goofy grin across his face, and his hands half-way raised, palms up. This was not during an act of worship; the answer and the blissful, nearly trancelike state was his response to an interview question.

A five year old is not capable of abstract thought. Except in the case of a true child genius--Einstein or Hawking level--I cannot believe a five year old is able to evaluate their own life and decide that it is lacking sufficient spirituality and then convert to a religion they believe is true. Heck, at 9 to 11, there's a very good chance that he still isn't able to make that analysis and decision.

The entire thing--the answer, the trance, the bliss--it is not coming from him. It can't be. He is saying what he's been taught to say, presenting an image he has been taught to present. Maybe he is actually feeling something, but without the ability to really understand the religion he is a part of, the feelings would be more a result of Classical Conditioning than spiritual awareness.

His parents and mentors, the people who's primary responsibility is to care for him, teach him and help him grow into a healthy adult have, instead, stripped him of his own personhood and turned him into a mirror to reflect their own propoganda. They have, in a sense, killed their child.

Kids like that tend to go one of two ways: either they never recover any sense of their own Self and, in effect, may as well have never lived at all; or they realize what has been done to them and slingshot in the opposite direction--abandoning everything they were taught (the one guy I know who was raised like this and slingshotted ran away when he was in his mid-teens, became a real Satanist--not the fake kind that parents are afraid their kids will become--and has devoted his life to harming as many people as possible. Last I saw anyway. His life got weird....weirder than usual....a few years ago and he might have turned around somewhat. I haven't seen him since then, though.)

Some actually do recover, and are able to forge real lives for themselves, but it takes extrodinary strength that most people, even under the best of conditions, will never develop.

 

[MykeXero]

The more militant something gets, the more ultimate backlash its going to receive from the non-extreme public.

You only have to look at history to show you this....over and over and over and over.

Groups like BattleCry will only do more harm to Christianity then helping.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I'm always intrigued that some religious believers are able to twist concepts and language so radically that a society of free speech, freedom of belief and free presses becomes a tool of 'brainwashing' but teaching children from a very young age that there is one way to happiness and everyone else is wrong, and restricting what they can do, say, see, read or hear to things within a particular brand of a particular sect of a particular religion is true freedom.

Oh, and I don't see why it is so awful that less and less teenagers and 'Bible-believing Christians' or of a specific religion at all. I don't think it fosters immorality or is going to lead to the end of civilised society. I am not religious...but that doesn't mean I'm going to become a violent criminal and degenerate. I want to contribute to society because I care about people, not because some god is looking over my shoulder. I'm not going to go out and start stabbing people because I know that is wrong...and I don't need any book like the bible, which includes several commands to commit genocide or murder specific men, women and children, to tell me that.

If anything, the decline in religion is making better, more moderate, happier, healthier young people. More and more people understand right and wrong for themselves, engage in independent thought, and have well thought out reasons for what they do or don't do. Rather than going around thinking "no drink, no drugs, no sex, no gambling, no dancing, no swearing, no working on the sabbath, no gluttony..." nowadays more people are thinking "no hurting myself or others." That is a much healthier, effective attitude.

Let's not pretend religion stops people doing things that are bad. Enforced external morality doesn't work.

Let's face it...there is a distinct direct correlation between the lack of education, wealth and prosperity in a society and the extent to which it believes in and practices organised conservative religion. Religion breeds ignorance, and stops people from having to think for themselves. How that is good for society I don't know, unless we think the good for society is perpetuating the injustices, inequalities, pain, evil, discrimination, hatred, and ignorance that past generations had to deal with. Such sects as those that teach in Jesus Camp are holding society back from progress.

convivencia!

 

[JohnLocke]

Query?

1. Are they training these children in the use of weapons? unarmed combat? small unit tactics? explosives? etc.

I admit I'm a little freaked out by the indoctrination of children to such a fanatic degree, but I do respect folks rights to raise their kids as they should go. 'Course, I get more than a little nervous when "be a Crusader for Christ" turns from handing out pamphlets and singing songs on the corner, to carrying an AK-47 and strapping on an explosive vest. The first I don't like, the second scares me.

I hate anybody saying "I know better than you" but it's the honest truth that it's almost always true, provided you find the right person. How many of us would have rather never been exposed to things like cigarettes, alcohol, cocaine, etc.? I hate to admit it, but my life would have almost certainly been better, and would have been undoubtedly longer and healthier if that had been the case.

One need not be an ignorant, ill educated, or destitute person to feel this way. In my experience, of those I knew who were ultra conservative religiously, they were all well off, even on the disgustingly over educated and wealthy side (lawyers for the most part).

Tough call.

Cheers

 

[rebelEnigma]

Beautifully shot and edited, at times unintentionally funny, Jesus Camp is ultimately as chilling as a horror film. One mom points out, “There are only two kinds of people in the world. Those that love Jesus, and those that don’t.”

This is correct.

"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. -Matthew 12:30 (NIV)

Or, as one child puts it, “Whenever I am around non-Christians it makes my spirit feel yucky.”

This child is far to young to understand what it really means to "spread the Good News to all nations" and to "snatch them from the fires." I'm a little curious as to what exactly the leaders at the camp teach the kids, however. I wouldn't worry too much about these kids at the camp as they do claim to be Christians. If they start threatening to murder someone, then they are no longer under that title as the Bible clearly says to "Love thy neighbor as yourself." Murdering a non-Christian for not believing is the exact opposite of what Christ teaches (see above statement).

Fetus dolls: Not sure how effective this is at speaking out against abortion, as I find it hard to believe people would seriously buy it for their kids.

What about the charge that this training borders on child abuse, especially since these kids are home-schooled and don’t have access to other points of view?

The same could be said about public schools where bringing Bibles to share with the students is prohibited and classes on religion are painted with the familiar adage of "religion is a backwards belief system, so here's what you should think." And what about families that do not let their children hear about Christianity? Is it child abuse to not let your kids hear EVERY possible view point?