JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

[SwordmanJr]

Sure it is. What do you think *Romans 3:27; Romans 9:32; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:2-10 are all talking about?

Well, ok. I'll address the first of your proof texts:

[Rom 3:27] Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Your own proof text blew your case. It's NOT by the law, or of works. It's by the law of faith. Nowhere are the ten commandments called the law of faith that I have ever seen.

There is no scripture that says that the 10 commandments are to be suspended in the future. The old covenant is replaced by the new covenant as outlined in Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-32 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Gods' 10 commandments has the same role it always has and that is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7;...

Considering I quoted the verses that spelled out the very thing you are denying, what else can be said? If we can't agree on the clarity of language in the scriptures, and my proof texts that the subject of what Jeremiah spoke of was in fact the very tablets with the ten commandments written upon them, what else is there. You are not moved by what is written and clearly laid out. The Spirit of the Lord has confirmed within me His word that I quoted to you, and you reject it.

If you're feeling some sort of confirmation in your heart that your denials are true, then one of us has a demonic spirit within him testifying the polar opposite of the other. We can't both be right. You're fixated on what you believe, and I'm fixated on what's written and confirmed by the Spirit.

So, what resolution is there to this dilemma?

Jr

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hmm nope! Here lets' add the context back to the discussion so it is easier to follow...

SwordmanJr said: ↑ This is where we do indeed disagree. Obedience to the letter of the law (ten commandments or the law of Moses) is not the basis of works.

This was responded with...

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Sure it is. What do you think *Romans 3:27; Romans 9:32; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:2-10 are all talking about?

You now post this...

Well, ok. I'll address the first of your proof texts: [Rom 3:27] Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Your own proof text blew your case. It's NOT by the law, or of works. It's by the law of faith. Nowhere are the ten commandments called the law of faith that I have ever seen.

What are you talking about? Where have I ever stated anywhere in our discussion that we are saved by the works of the law? If I have never said such things why are you pretending that I have? If I do not believe such things then what is your argument? You have none do you. You said in your words,

SwordmanJr said "Obedience to the letter of the law (ten commandments or the law of Moses) is not the basis of works.

The scriptures provided to you in *Romans 3:27; Romans 9:32; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:2-10 show your statement is incorrect as people were incorrectly seeking there salvation from the works of the law when there is no salvation in the works of the law. Paul is showing in these scriptures that people were seeking their salvation in the works of the law and not through Christ's sacrifice for our sins. So your claims are not true. Here lets add a little more context to these scriptures. God's Word says (not mine)...

Romans 3:26-28 [26], To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus.[27], Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? No: but by the law of faith. [28], Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 9:30-33 [30], What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. [31], But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. [32], Why? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone;[33], As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumbling stone and rock of offense: and whoever believes on him shall not be ashamed.

Galatians 2:16-18 [16], Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. [17], But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.[18], For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Galatians 3:2-10
[2], This only would I learn of you, Received you the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3], Are you so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh?
[4], Have you suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
[5], He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you, does he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[6], Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7], Know you therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
[8], And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel to Abraham, saying, In you shall all nations be blessed.
[9], So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
[10], For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

As shown above dear friend these are God's Words not mine and they show that we cannot claim any righteousness by the works of the law. So your claim that "Obedience to the letter of the law (ten commandments or the law of Moses) is not the basis of works." is not true as many have tried to seek their righteousness through the works of the law when there is none as shown in the scriptures above.

The rest of your post is not relevant to our conversation as I believe nothing you are claiming I believe so you have no argument. Perhaps you have a misunderstanding. God's Spirit does not tell us to break his commandments. That is another Spirit according to the scriptures *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9; Revelation 14:12.

Hope this helps

 

[LoveGodsWord]

2 CORINTHIANS 3:1-10

Not really dear friend but let me explain why. The point is according to the scriptures and context already provided shows your teachings are not biblical and neither are your claims and accusations.

For example, let's look at the details of the scriptures in this post and your claims in regard to God's 10 commandments being abolished in 2 Corinthians 3 to see if there is any truth in what your saying here...

Let's look at the scriptures and show all the context shall we?

2 Corinthians 3:1-10
[1], Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
[2], You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
[3], SINCE YOU ARE MANIFESTLY DECLARED TO BE THE EPISTLE OF CHRIST MINISTERED BY US, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART.
[4], And such trust have we through Christ toward God:
[5], Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[6], WHO ALSO HAS MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW COVENANT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLS, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE.
[7], But if the ministry of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[8], How shall not the ministry of the Spirit be more glorious?
[9], For if the ministry of condemnation be glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness exceed in glory.
[10], For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excels.

Now take a look at v3 highlighted in RED which is the CONTEXT or what follows. Now take a look at the NEW COVENANT promise from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and repeated by the same same author as Corinthians in Hebrews 8:10-12 and 10:16-17

Hebrews 8:10-12
[10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: AND I WILL BE TO THEM A GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE TO ME A PEOPLE:
[11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

2 Corinthians 3 is talking about the NEW COVENANT of God's LAW written on the heart through faith that works by LOVE by His Spirit. Moving from the tables of stone to the fleshly tables of the heart (2 Corinthiand 3:3; Hebrews 8:10)

Let's look at the scriptures laid out together side by side...

2 Corinthians 3:3, [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART.

links to...

Hebrews 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.

links to...

Jeremiah 31:33 [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, said the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

links to...

Ezekiel36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART ALSO WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU: AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND I WILL GIVE YOU AN HEART OF FLESH.

links to...

2 Corinthians 3:3 [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART.

continuing in Ezekiel 36..

[27], And I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES, AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGMENTS, AND DO THEM.

God's Spirit of love fulfills and expresses itself through obedience to God's law ...

Romans 8:1-4 [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT. [2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

and again here...

Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; AND IF THERE BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, IT IS SUMMED UP IN THIS SAYING, NAMELY, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

.................

CONCLUSION: 2 Corinthians 3 is talking about the NEW COVENANT of LOVE written on the heart by faith in those who have been born of the Spirit to walk in God's LAW, through LOVE. It is NOT talking about ABOLISHING God's LAW it is talking about FULFILLING God's LAW in those who BELIEVE God's WORD. This is RIGHTEOUSNESS (Salvation) by FAITH for a SINNER that BELIEVES the WORD'S of the SAVIOR (JESUS). What is being ABOLISHED is the "ministration" of condemnation and the penalty of sin [DEATH] through FAITH in Christ by walking in the Spirit through faith in God's NEW COVENANT promise of a new heart to love.

................

SIN is still the same as it has always been which is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27) Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you. If you do away with God's 10 Commandments, then you have no knowledge of what sin is. If you have no knowledge of what sin is, you have no need of a Savior. If you have no Savior, you have no salvation because you are still in your sins and have not been born again to walk in God's Spirit by faith that works by love.

Hope this helps

 

[SwordmanJr]

[Exo 31:16-18] 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant. 17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. 18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

As we can see, the sabbath was a sign between two parties...the Lord and Israel. Nowhere does the text indicate that the Gentile nations were to be a part of that sign. There was no command to observe the sabbath before that time, nor is there a command thereafter for Gentiles to adhere to such.

[Deut. 5:14-15] 14 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

We see here the PURPOSE for Israel being commanded to observe the sabbath. The council of apostles in Jerusalem did not command that the Gentiles keep the sabbath, as is evidenced in Acts 15. The attendees of the synagogues in the Gentile cities were populated, as we're told, by Jews and Greeks. It's more than unlikely non-Judeo, Christ-believing Christians would have been allowed to attend synagogue given that the law of Moses was never laid upon the Gentile believers as a requirement, so now we arrive at why the Law Giver indwells His people and writes His law in the heart in language that is superior to the death that inhabits the letter.

Letterists are free to continue embracing the letter all they want. Not me. It's fine to study it all, but feeling that one is bound to the deadly letter as if some magical incantation had been spoken over us all to make us into what we are not, meaning that we Gentiles are not Israelites, that argument in favor of an alleged requirement for adherence to the letter will remain hidden in the ether somewhere that people only speak about, but cannot point at as having any solid grounding.

Jr

 

[SwordmanJr]

CONCLUSION: 2 Corinthians 3 is talking about the NEW COVENANT of LOVE written on the heart to walk in God's LAW, through LOVE. It is NOT talking about ABOLISHING God's LAW it is talking about FULFILLING God's LAW in those who BELIEVE God's WORD. This is RIGHTEOUSNESS (Salvation) by FAITH for a SINNER that BELIEVES the WORD'S of the SAVIOUR (JESUS). What is being ABOLISHED is the "ministration" of condemnation and the penalty of sin [DEATH] through FAITH in Christ by walking in the Spirit under the NEW COVENANT.

You focused conveniently on a part of the context other than the part that I highlighted. The "ministration of death" is a direct reference to the ten commandments. All the chopping and dicing will not take away that fact from the context.

It also appears that we do not possess the same understanding as to the meaning of "fulfilled" in Matt. 5:17. The Thayer's Greek Lexicon says, "to fulfil, i. e. "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment."

Obeyed as it should be... Letterist commentators will find all manner of opportunity to drive home the idea that the exact "ministration of death" letter of the law is what the Lord writes in our hearts. Well, I disagree with them, and the Spirit of the Lord has confirmed that belief when I read more in that context of Matt. 5:

[Mat 5:17-18] 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus alone obeyed the law as it should be, and He gave to us His thoughts on SOME of what He would later write into the hearts of His people:

[Mat 5:21-22, 27-28, 31-34, 38-39, 43-44] 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. ... 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. ... 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. 33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: ... 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. ... 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Not only did the Lord show the inferiority of the former letter that killeth, but He gave them a glimpse into what was to come...in that the Spirit of the Lord who gave the law then elevated it to a higher plane, and not only that, but also internalized it within us.

I have already shown from the scriptures the purpose behind the sabbath, and to whom it was commanded, neither of which have anything to do with Gentile believers under the New Covenant. You believe you are bound to it, to which I say...go for it. The Lord has not put that into my heart in the midst of the law He has written therein. If you feel it has been written into YOUR heart for YOU to live out in your religious endeavors, then go for it with gusto.

It should not concern you at all as to what the Lord sets me out to accomplish for Him and what He wants me to live out in this life He has set before me:

[Rom 14:4] Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Jr

 

[HARK!]

[Exo 31:16-18] 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant. 17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You focused conveniently on a part of the context other than the part that I highlighted. The "ministration of death" is a direct reference to the ten commandments. All the chopping and dicing will not take away that fact from the context.

It also appears that we do not possess the same understanding as to the meaning of "fulfilled" in Matt. 5:17. The Thayer's Greek Lexicon says, "to fulfil, i. e. "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment."

Obeyed as it should be... Letterist commentators will find all manner of opportunity to drive home the idea that the exact "ministration of death" letter of the law is what the Lord writes in our hearts. Well, I disagree with them, and the Spirit of the Lord has confirmed that belief when I read more in that context of Matt. 5:

[Mat 5:17-18] 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus alone obeyed the law as it should be, and He gave to us His thoughts on SOME of what He would later write into the hearts of His people:

[Mat 5:21-22, 27-28, 31-34, 38-39, 43-44] 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. ... 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. ... 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. 33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: ... 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. ... 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Not only did the Lord show the inferiority of the former letter that killeth, but He gave them a glimpse into what was to come...in that the Spirit of the Lord who gave the law then elevated it to a higher plane, and not only that, but also internalized it within us.

I have already shown from the scriptures the purpose behind the sabbath, and to whom it was commanded, neither of which have anything to do with Gentile believers under the New Covenant. You believe you are bound to it, to which I say...go for it. The Lord has not put that into my heart in the midst of the law He has written therein. If you feel it has been written into YOUR heart for YOU to live out in your religious endeavors, then go for it with gusto.

It should not concern you at all as to what the Lord sets me out to accomplish for Him and what He wants me to live out in this life He has set before me:

[Rom 14:4] Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Jr

Nope! Not really dear friend but let me explain why. As shown in the scriptures provided earlier in post # 1263, the ministration of death is not the 10 commandments it is sin. The ministration of death is the penalty for breaking Gods law. It is the condemnation of death that we are freed from if we accept the gift of God's dear son *Romans 6:23.

Romans 8:1-4 [1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT. [2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

Sin is the problem because the wages of sin is death *Romans 6:23 not God's law that is holy just and good *Romans 7:12. The purpose of God's law is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when God's law is broken *Romans 3:20

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.

Therefore what do we say about God's law?

Romans 7:12 Why the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The problem is with us dear friend not God's law. We are all sinners in need of a Savior. That is why we need a Savior. Many did not know the meaning of this in the days of JESUS *Matthew 9:12-13 and this is why JESUS says "unless a man is born again to walk in the Spirit *Galatians 5:16 into God's new covenant promise of a new heart by faith he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven *John 3:3-7; Hebrews 8:10-12.

Those who are born again according to the scriptures do not practice sin (knowingly breaking anyone of God's commandments) *1 John 3:4-9; James 2:10-11. Those who practice sin according to the scriptures in 1 John 2:3-4 have not seen him, do not know him, and are not telling the truth.

The role of Gods 10 commandments is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we knowingly break anyone of them according to the scriptures we stand before God guilty of sin *James 2:10-11; Romans 3:19.

Today according to 2 Corinthians 3 we are free from the ministration of condemnation and death and made free to walk in the ministration of the Spirit according to God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. If we walk in the Spirit we do will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh *Galatians 5:16

Your very welcome

 

[SwordmanJr]

Well, the letter was and still is:

[2 Cor. 3:15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

The revelation has not yet come to you by the Spirit as to the letter and its "ministration of death," but perhaps that revelation will some day be made more real to you. I accept that it will come to you in the Lord's own time. Until then, I remain unconvinced of your interpretations of the letter that killeth.

For the rest, this is a great video that helps explain what the Lord has placed in many people's hearts:

Blessings to all.

Jr

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well, the letter was and still is:

[2 Cor. 3:15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

The revelation has not yet come to you by the Spirit as to the letter and its "ministration of death," but perhaps that revelation will some day be made more real to you. I accept that it will come to you in the Lord's own time. Until then, I remain unconvinced of your interpretations of the letter that killeth.

For the rest, this is a great video that helps explain what the Lord has placed in many people's hearts:

Blessings to all.

Jr

No one knows God or has God's Spirit dear friend if they knowingly continue breaking anyone of God's commandments according to the Scriptures...

1 John 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[4], HE THAT SAID, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

Those who knowingly practice sin according to the scriptures follow another Spirit of the children of the devil, as it is written...

1 JOHN 3:6-10 [6], Whoever stays in him SINS NOT: WHOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM, NEITHER KNOWS HIM [7], Little children (Believers), LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU: HE THAT DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS EVEN AS HE (Jesus) IS RIGHTEOUS. [8], HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9], WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10], IN THIS THE CHILDREN OF GOD AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL ARE MANIFEST; WHOEVER IS NOT RIGHTEOUS IS NOT OF GOD, neither he that loves not his brother.

God's people hear God's Voice (the Word) and follow him...

JOHN 10:26-27 [26], But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you. [27], MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, AND I KNOW THEM, AND THEY FOLLOW ME.

God's people keep God's commandments because they have been born again to walk in God's Spirit to love God and JESUS says to them..

John 14:15 IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

John 15:10 [10], IF YOU KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, YOU SHALL ABIDE IN MY LOVE; EVEN AS I HAVE KEPT MY FATHER'S COMMANDMENTS AND ABIDE IN HIS LOVE.

Those who have been born of God do not practice sin...

1 John 3:6-9 [6], WHOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM, NEITHER KNOWN HIM.

Sin is defined in the scriptures are breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments or not believing or following God's Word...

1 John 3:4 [4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

If we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin..

James 2:10-11 [10], FOR WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL. [11], For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW.

God's people keep all of God's commandments through faith that works by love...

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and EVERY ONE THAT LOVES IS BORN OF GOD, AND KNOWS GOD.

1 John 5:2-4 [2], BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.[3], FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: AND HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT GRIEVOUS. [4], For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and THIS IS THE VICTORY THAT OVERCOMES THE WORLD, EVEN OUR FAITH.

2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. THIS IS THE COMMANDMENT, THAT, AS YOU HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, YOU SHOULD WALK IN IT.

Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], For this, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; AND IF THERE BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, IT IS BRIEFLY SUMMED UP IN THIS SAYING, NAMELY, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

John 15:10 [10], IF YOU KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, YOU SHALL ABIDE IN MY LOVE; EVEN AS I HAVE KEPT MY FATHER'S COMMANDMENTS AND ABIDE IN HIS LOVE.

God's saints keep all of God's commandments according to the scriptures because they have been born again to love and walk in God's Spirit...

Revelation 12:17 [17], And the DRAGON (Satan) WAS WROTH WITH THE WOMAN (church), and WENT TO MAKE WAR WITH THE REMNANT OF HER SEED, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus.'

Revelation 22:14 BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, THAT THEY MAY HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE.

.............

No one has God's Spirit neither do they know Him if they knowingly break any one of God's commandments according to the scriptures. God is calling us to return to His Word and worship Him in Spirit and in truth. BABYLON (the Religions of the world) have fallen. God is calling his people out from following man-made teachings and traditions that break His commandments back to the pure Word of God. Those who have been born again to walk in God's Spirit do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh *Galatians 5:16 as it is written "Cursed is every man that trusts in man and makes flesh his arm" - Jeremiah 17:5

God's sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those of course who do not hear will not follow *John 10:26-27.

 

[SwordmanJr]

Col. 2:14 also lays to rest the law of Moses in relation to us:

[Col 2:14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The Greek word in this verse translated "ordinances," contrary to the false claims of some, refers to the law of Moses. The Thayer's Greek lexicon says this:

"2. of the rules and requirements of the law of Moses, 3 Macc. 1:3; διατήρησις τῶν ἁγίων δογμάτων, Philo, alleg. legg. i., § 16; carrying a suggestion of severity, and of threatened punishment, τὸν νόμον τῶν ἐντολῶν ἐν δόγμασι, the law containing precepts in the form of decrees [A. V. the law of commandments contained in ordinances], Ephesians 2:15; τὸ καθ’ ἡμῶν χειρόγραφον τοῖς δόγμασι equivalent to τὸ τοῖς δόγμασι (dative of instrument) by ὃν καθ’ ἡμῶν, the bond against us by its decrees, Colossians 2:14; cf. Winers Grammar, § 31, 10 Note 1 [Buttmann, 92 (80); on both passages see Bp. Lightfoot on Colossians, the passage cited]."

Then we have those who like to hold up the ten commandments as being separate, or independent of the law of Moses, even though they were given as a covenant to Israel.

[Exo 31:16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant. [Contained in the ten, and in the law of Moses.]
[Exo 34:27] And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. [The ten commandments, a covenant with Israel.]
[Lev 24:8] Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, [being taken] from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant. [Speaks for itself.]

Then there's the all time favorite in the attempt to spin the table in an effort to trip up the opponent by asking such foolish things as, "So you don't think the law against murder and adultery no longer are binding if you don't have to follow the law of Moses...?"

Murder and adultery were wrong long before Moses penned the Law or even held the ten commandments in his hot little hands, so that one falls by the wayside given that the followers themselves of the law don't even do all that is contained therein. We now have Who is superior to the written letter of the law and ordinances. Being indwelt by the law Giver is vastly superior to the written words.

It also seems to bother the letterists that what the law Giver writes upon our hearts doesn't include ALL that is in the written ordinances. This gets right down to the main problem I see emanating from even unbelievers. Most people's problem with God is that He is not under THEIR control. Most seem to want a God even puts into hearts what THEY think should be written therein.

Well, if they want to argue about sabbath observance not being written in our hearts, then they need to take that up with the Lord Himself. We can't BOTH be filled with the same Spirit, and yet holding to two entirely different things about this important subject. One or both of us has a spirit of the devil within to stand in such differing revelation. What I DO know is that all us men are liars, and God is true, and Christ Jesus is come in the flesh. With that, I am content.

Jr

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Col. 2:14 also lays to rest the law of Moses in relation to us:

[Col 2:14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The Greek word in this verse translated "ordinances," contrary to the false claims of some, refers to the law of Moses. The Thayer's Greek lexicon says this:

"2. of the rules and requirements of the law of Moses, 3 Macc. 1:3; διατήρησις τῶν ἁγίων δογμάτων, Philo, alleg. legg. i., § 16; carrying a suggestion of severity, and of threatened punishment, τὸν νόμον τῶν ἐντολῶν ἐν δόγμασι, the law containing precepts in the form of decrees [A. V. the law of commandments contained in ordinances], Ephesians 2:15; τὸ καθ’ ἡμῶν χειρόγραφον τοῖς δόγμασι equivalent to τὸ τοῖς δόγμασι (dative of instrument) by ὃν καθ’ ἡμῶν, the bond against us by its decrees, Colossians 2:14; cf. Winers Grammar, § 31, 10 Note 1 [Buttmann, 92 (80); on both passages see Bp. Lightfoot on Colossians, the passage cited]."

If you understand the Hebrew and Greek language you will know that the word meanings are not the same as the English when applied in scripture. Unlike the English language, most Hebrew and Greek words have multiple meanings and what determines their meaning within the scriptures is the chapter and scripture subject matter context of application.

Your interpretation of Colossians 2:14 is that "the blotting out of the handwriting of "ordinances" that was against us and contrary to us and took it away nailing it to the cross was to the 10 commandments, yet the context and subject matter of Colossians 2:11-17 was to the Mosiac "shadow laws" in the ordinances.

Gods' 10 commandments are not "shadow laws in "ordinances" they are Gods' eternal law, spoken *Exodus 20:1-17 and written with the finger of God on two tables of stone and were the work of God alone *Exodus 32:16. We are told in Ecclesiastes that "whatsoever God does it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God does it, that men should fear before him *Ecclesiastes 3:14. The context provided in Colossians 2:11-17 is to the "shadow laws" of "circumcision" and the ceremonial laws in the annual Feast days which were shadows of things to come *Colossians 2:17. There are many laws in the Mosiac book of the law. Colossians 2 does not state anywhere that it is talking about the 10 commandments. Neither does it state anywhere that it is talking about God's 4th commandment but the ceremonial "shadow sabbaths" in the annual Feast days. These are not the same as God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments.

Taking your own Lexicon does not even say what your claiming here. Let's show why by highlighting the relevant section in red and applying it to Colossians 2:14.

Thayer's Greek lexicon
"2. of the rules and requirements of the law of Moses, 3 Macc. 1:3; διατήρησις τῶν ἁγίων δογμάτων, Philo, alleg. legg. i., § 16; carrying a suggestion of severity, and of threatened punishment, τὸν νόμον τῶν ἐντολῶν ἐν δόγμασι, the law containing precepts in the form of decrees [A. V. the law of commandments contained in ordinances], Ephesians 2:15; τὸ καθ’ ἡμῶν χειρόγραφον τοῖς δόγμασι equivalent to τὸ τοῖς δόγμασι (dative of instrument) by ὃν καθ’ ἡμῶν, the bond against us by its decrees, Colossians 2:14; cf. Winers Grammar, § 31, 10 Note 1 [Buttmann, 92 (80); on both passages see Bp. Lightfoot on Colossians, the passage cited].

Colossians 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

What was nailed to the cross for believers is that which was against us which was as highlighted in the Lexicon above the "severity, and of threatened punishment. Our sins were nailed to the cross and our punishment for sin (death) *Romans 6:23 not the 10 commandments. Gods' law according to Paul is Holy Just and Good *Romans 7:12, they do not give us a punishment for sin they only give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and righteousness (right doing) when obeyed *Psalms 119:172

Then we have those who like to hold up the ten commandments as being separate, or independent of the law of Moses, even though they were given as a covenant to Israel.

[Exo 31:16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant. [Contained in the ten, and in the law of Moses.]
[Exo 34:27] And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. [The ten commandments, a covenant with Israel.]
[Lev 24:8] Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, [being taken] from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant. [Speaks for itself.]

Then there's the all time favorite in the attempt to spin the table in an effort to trip up the opponent by asking such foolish things as, "So you don't think the law against murder and adultery no longer are binding if you don't have to follow the law of Moses...?"

Murder and adultery were wrong long before Moses penned the Law or even held the ten commandments in his hot little hands, so that one falls by the wayside given that the followers themselves of the law don't even do all that is contained therein. We now have Who is superior to the written letter of the law and ordinances. Being indwelt by the law Giver is vastly superior to the written words.

It also seems to bother the letterists that what the law Giver writes upon our hearts doesn't include ALL that is in the written ordinances. This gets right down to the main problem I see emanating from even unbelievers. Most people's problem with God is that He is not under THEIR control. Most seem to want a God even puts into hearts what THEY think should be written therein.

Well, if they want to argue about sabbath observance not being written in our hearts, then they need to take that up with the Lord Himself. We can't BOTH be filled with the same Spirit, and yet holding to two entirely different things about this important subject. One or both of us has a spirit of the devil within to stand in such differing revelation. What I DO know is that all us men are liars, and God is true, and Christ Jesus is come in the flesh. With that, I am content.

Jr

Trying to argue that God's 4th commandment Sabbath of the 10 commandment is only for physical ISRAEL in the flesh is not a biblical one in the new covenant. This is clearly shown when reading the scriptures as God's 4th commandment is simply one of God's 10 commandments. If you try to argue that Gods' 4th commandment is only for Israel then your arguing all of God's 10 commandments are only for ISRAEL. Therefore this teaching is not a biblical one because it is trying to argue that Gods' 10 commandments (not just God's 4th commandment) has been abolished and not a requirement and the standard of christian living. God's ISRAEL now in the new covenant is no longer those of the flesh but those of the Spirit. ISRAEL is only a name given by God to those who now believe and follow Gods' Word. If we are not a part of Gods true ISRAEL today we have no part in Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27. Gentiles believes are now grafted in through faith in Christ *Romans 11:13-27; God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word and we are all now both Jewish and Gentile believers one in Christ *Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13.

Also according to JESUS in Mark 2:27 the Sabbath was made for all mankind so to try and argue that the Sabbath was only for God's ISRAEL does not make any sense as there was no Jew, no Israel, no Moses, no sin and no law when God made the Sabbath for all mankind on the "seventh day of the creation week according to Genesis 2:1-3 only Adam and Eve the parents of all mankind. According to God's Word in the new covenant scriptures Gods' 10 commandments (which includes Gods' 4th commandment) has the same role it always has for those who believe and follow Gods' Word. The purpose of God's 10 commandments is to give us the knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS (right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 Psalms 119:172 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. Those who knowingly practice sin will not enter the Kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of Gods' dear son and count the blood of the covenant and unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well, the letter was and still is:

[2 Cor. 3:15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

The revelation has not yet come to you by the Spirit as to the letter and its "ministration of death," but perhaps that revelation will some day be made more real to you. I accept that it will come to you in the Lord's own time. Until then, I remain unconvinced of your interpretations of the letter that killeth.

For the rest, this is a great video that helps explain what the Lord has placed in many people's hearts:

Blessings to all.

Jr

No one follows the Spirit of the law by breaking God's law. According to the scriptures sin is the transgression of God's law in James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7 and sin (breaking God's law) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10. Those who keep the Spirit of the law do not practice sin they obey Gods' law *1 John 3:6 the way it is meant to be followed (love -Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 5:3-4). Those who follow the Spirit of the law are those who are born of the Spirit *John 3:3-7 to walk in God's law *Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:31; Romans 6:1-23. Those who are born of the Spirit do not practice sin (breaking the law) according to 1 John 3:6-9. Those who claim they know God and are from God while breaking God's law according to the scriptures are lying and have neither seen God or know God according to 1 John 2:3-4. Gods' people keep all of God's laws through faith in God's Word according to Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; 1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 5:3-4; John 14:15.

Hope this is helpful

 

[SwordmanJr]

If you understand the Hebrew and Greek language you will know that the word meanings are not the same as the English when applied in scripture. Unlike the English language, most Hebrew and Greek words have multiple meanings and what determines their meaning within the scriptures is the chapter and scripture subject matter context of application.

Your interpretation of Colossians 2:14 is that "the blotting out of the handwriting of "ordinances" that was against us and contrary to us and took it away nailing it to the cross was to the 10 commandments, yet the context and subject matter of Colossians 2:11-17 was to the Mosiac "shadow laws" in the ordinances.

Nice try, but I didn't interpret anything. I made good use of Thayer's Greek Lexicon, and I would say that Thayer was FAR more knowledgeable of the Greek language than you or anyone else here given that his work is renowned among some of the greatest lingual scholars in the world. Your snake oil claim isn't all that masterful in content when gauged against superior scholarship, because that's not the only context throughout Paul's letters where he clearly put to rest the arguments that we are today bound by having to go back to the law of Moses and/or the ten commandments. The less knowledgeable always like to assume from that statement that I do not believe in any moral law of absolutes, which is what I expect from the less learned and less discerning. Suffice it to say that I am not one to foolishly downplay the power of the Spirit of God to effectively put into our hearts His relevant laws (teachings) as they apply to us today.

Additionally, I have declared numerous times that I am not opposed to folks trying to observe the sabbaths, feasts, or any of the other observances. We have that freedom, but when some think themselves qualified and empowered to try and enslave others to the law and ordinances and commandments that were clearly identified as being under covenantal direction that was VERY specifically aimed at the stiff-necked Jews, that's where I draw the line and call them out on their "town sheriff" antics of trying to "lock up" those they see as violators, throwing their rotten fruit of bondage at those of us who believe what's written.

If what they say is true, which does not align with what the Spirit of the Lord has shown to me, then one or all of us are filled with a deceiving, demonic spirits. I'm content to wait until the day the Lord judges to find out who was duped, and who was truly filled with God's Spirit. We're ALL liars, and God is true. Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

Jr

 

[SwordmanJr]

No one follows the Spirit of the law by breaking God's law. According to the scriptures sin is the transgression of God's law in James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7 and sin (breaking God's law) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10. Those who keep the Spirit of the law do not practice sin they obey Gods' law *1 John 3:6 the way it is meant to be followed (love -Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 5:3-4). Those who follow the Spirit of the law are those who are born of the Spirit *John 3:3-7 to walk in God's law *Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:31; Romans 6:1-23. Those who are born of the Spirit do not practice sin (breaking the law) according to 1 John 3:6-9. Those who claim they know God and are from God while breaking God's law according to the scriptures are lying and have neither seen God or know God according to 1 John 2:3-4. Gods' people keep all of God's laws through faith in God's Word according to Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; 1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 5:3-4; John 14:15.

Hope this is helpful

That's the same old fodder I hear from letterists. The claim always degenerates to the ideas that the OT law and commands are all the same that Paul referred to in all his treatise on the subject as applying to us today. That's just too easy a deceptive twisting that only convinces the ignorant masses who don't know the scriptures. You can keep your chains of enslavement. Wear them with pride if you like, but I will remain free in Christ Jesus, relying on His direction for all things spiritual and lawful (teaching).

Jr

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Nice try, but I didn't interpret anything. I made good use of Thayer's Greek Lexicon, and I would say that Thayer was FAR more knowledgeable of the Greek language than you or anyone else here given that his work is renowned among some of the greatest lingual scholars in the world. Your snake oil claim isn't all that masterful in content when gauged against superior scholarship, because that's not the only context throughout Paul's letters where he clearly put to rest the arguments that we are today bound by having to go back to the law of Moses and/or the ten commandments. The less knowledgeable always like to assume from that statement that I do not believe in any moral law of absolutes, which is what I expect from the less learned and less discerning. Suffice it to say that I am not one to foolishly downplay the power of the Spirit of God to effectively put into our hearts His relevant laws (teachings) as they apply to us today.

Additionally, I have declared numerous times that I am not opposed to folks trying to observe the sabbaths, feasts, or any of the other observances. We have that freedom, but when some think themselves qualified and empowered to try and enslave others to the law and ordinances and commandments that were clearly identified as being under covenantal direction that was VERY specifically aimed at the stiff-necked Jews, that's where I draw the line and call them out on their "town sheriff" antics of trying to "lock up" those they see as violators, throwing their rotten fruit of bondage at those of us who believe what's written.

If what they say is true, which does not align with what the Spirit of the Lord has shown to me, then one or all of us are filled with a deceiving, demonic spirits. I'm content to wait until the day the Lord judges to find out who was duped, and who was truly filled with God's Spirit. We're ALL liars, and God is true. Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

Jr

There was no trying needed. You were provided the scriptures and shown even in your own Lexican that context does not agree with you. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not worshiping God. Something I guess we should all pray about I guess. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. God's Word does not teach we remain righteous in disobedience.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That's the same old fodder I hear from letterists. The claim always degenerates to the ideas that the OT law and commands are all the same that Paul referred to in all his treatise on the subject as applying to us today. That's just too easy a deceptive twisting that only convinces the ignorant masses who don't know the scriptures. You can keep your chains of enslavement. Wear them with pride if you like, but I will remain free in Christ Jesus, relying on His direction for all things spiritual and lawful (teaching).

Jr

What your quoting from is God's Word not my words. Here it seems you are denying God's Word with your words that are not Gods' Word but yours. What is it in the scriptures you are quoting from and shared with you only in love and has a help to you that you do not believe? All I am hearing here is angry words and accusations that are your words disagreeing with the scriptures you are quoting from but not responding to.

 

[SwordmanJr]

What your quoting from and did not address is God's Word not my words. Here it seems you are denying God's Word with your words that are not Gods' Word but yours. What is it in the scriptures you are quoting from and shared with you only in love and has a help to you that you do not believe? All I am hearing here is angry words and accusations that are your words disagreeing with the scriptures you are quoting from but not responding to.

Whatever....

 

[SwordmanJr]

There was no trying needed. You were provided the scriptures and shown even in your own Lexican that context does not agree with you. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not worshiping God. Something I guess we should all pray about I guess. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. God's Word does not teach we remain righteous in disobedience.

Acts 15 doesn't agree with you, but, hey, you can leap over tall buildings in one bound, right?

Whatever....

Jr

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Acts 15 doesn't agree with you, but, hey, you can leap over tall buildings in one bound, right?

Whatever....

Jr

Acts 15 agrees with what is being shared with you. According to the scriptures circumcision is not a requirement for salvation as Paul confirms latter, "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God." 1 Corinthians 7:19. Doesn't your interpretation of Acts 15 which is over circumcision *Acts 15:1-2 have Paul contradicting himself when he talks to the Corinthians some time latter after the decision at Jerusalem?

 

[SwordmanJr]

Acts 15 agrees with what is being shared with you. According to the scriptures circumcision is not a requirement for salvation as Paul confirms latter, "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God." 1 Corinthians 7:19. Doesn't your interpretation of Acts 15 which is over circumcision *Acts 15:1-2 have Paul contradicting himself when he talks to the Corinthians some time latter after the decision at Jerusalem?

Whatever.... I'm sure you're convinced of you're beliefs, just as I am of mine from my having read Acts 15 for what it actually says rather than to inject into the white spaces what isn't there.

[Jas 2:10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

What's also puzzling, though, is anyone thinking that going BACK to the law, ordinances and ten commandments is something they can even do with any measure of success.

[Jas 2:10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

What I mean by that is, given that they can't keep those things perfectly, as did Jesus, then they aren't keeping any of them at all. In God's economy, there's no such thing as "partial obedience." Jesus fulfilled them ALL perfectly for us, and THEN wrote His teachings in our hearts as they apply to us who are in Him; given that we can't duplicate in this life the perfection of His fulfillment of those letter laws (teachings) and commands.

[Jas 2:10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

So, letterists pointing back at the letter of the law and commandments are doing nothing more than pointing back at what even they themselves cannot obey to the satisfaction of the Lord Most High, and they think they will be rewarded for "trying"? Since when did the Lord lower His standards for obedience to the letter; below the point of perfection that letterists think they're going to get any reward for the attempt?

[Jas 2:10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

In the final analysis, there is no legitimate argument on the side of the letterists who themselves are incapable of accomplishing what they claim we all should be doing as Gentile Christians.

[Jas 2:10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

Recall that the believing Jews in Jerusalem were said to be "zealous for the law." Letterists should find it strange that the apostles didn't at any time say that those believing Jews were going to be rewarded specially for their zealotry. Again, I'm simply observing what's missing in the white space that some seem to be assuming is there.

Now for context:

[Jas 2:8-13] 8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Letterists must therefore be on the level of Deity to keep it all perfectly, and anything less than that, and they are guilty of all the law.

Jr