Jesus’ Commandments-What Commandments?

[newton3005]

Lord Jesus in John 14:15 says, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” What commandments are those? He doesn’t say in the verses that follow in this chapter, or in the ones before. And we are hard-pressed to assert that the word “commandments” is a misnomer, unless it can be shown that it is a mistranslation. Seems that based on just the reading of this passage, a better phrasing would be. “If you love me, you will keep my TEACHINGS.” But how hard is it to translate the word ‘teachings’? So we must presume, in the context of 2 Timothy 3:16, that every word in the Bible is as is.

The commandments that Jesus mentions or refers to is what he considers in Matthew 22:34-40 to be the two great Commandments- That we love God with all our heart, soul and mind, and we love our neighbor as we love ourselves. The latter Commandment is a “new” Commandment of Jesus, expressed in John 13:34.

How much stock could we take in Matthew 22:34-40? After all, the words he spoke were in response to a question posed to him by a Pharisee, and within that phrase Jesus says the two Commandments sum up the Law. But the Bible tells us later on that the Law is not needed when we put our full love in Jesus. The disciples of Jesus say that the true object of our faith is God through Lord Jesus, not the Laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy that God commanded to be followed in an earlier time. Hebrews 6:1 says to “leave the elementary doctrine of Christ.” The “elementary doctrine of Christ” is said to be the Laws that God gave to Moses and that Moses, in turn, gave to the Hebrews.

But you have Jesus in Matthew 5:18-19 saying, “For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least vin the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great vin the kingdom of heaven.” With Lord Jesus, God’s Commandments are his Commandments.

And what is it that is to be “accomplished”? Based on the reading of the Bible, it is to fulfill the two great commandments of Jesus, mentioned above. The inference is that once we achieve loving God and eachother, we need not be mindful of the 400 some-odd Laws in the Old Testament. In a sense, at this point we have become weaned off of milk and have gone on to solid food.

When we love God and eachother, we don’t need directions from the Law. But until then? Jesus tells us not to throw it away until we truly love him. I tell you that, in a world ruled by Satan, some people may think they truly love Lord Jesus, but their actions show otherwise. Their works are not God’s Works given to us, but are their own, amounting to the wages of sin. Seems they need the Law more than many of us do, and they are further from Lord Jesus than we are, in terms of loving him.

 

[Halbhh]

Lord Jesus in John 14:15 says, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” What commandments are those? He doesn’t say in the verses that follow in this chapter, or in the ones before.

The main one:
John 15:12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

 

[Halbhh]

Also, we want to really listen, so that we hear such as this:

12When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13“You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you.

 

[Lost4words]

Every instruction from Jesus is a commandment.

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[BobRyan]

Lord Jesus in John 14:15 says, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” What commandments are those?

Heb 8:6-12 says Jesus is the One speaking His Commandments at Sinai. And Paul says His Commandments include the Ten having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

Paul points us to the 10 again in Rom 7 and Rom 13 as does James in James 2 - as does Christ in Matt 19.

 

[BobRyan]

The commandments that Jesus mentions or refers to is what he considers in Matthew 22:34-40 to be the two great Commandments- That we love God with all our heart, soul and mind, and we love our neighbor as we love ourselves. The latter Commandment is a “new” Commandment of Jesus, expressed in John 13:34.

"Love God with all your heart" - is Jesus quoting Deut 6:5 in Matt 22.
"Love your neighbor as yourself" - is Jesus quoting Lev 19:18 - in Matt 22

And the Jews agreed with Jesus' point

As you point out in Matt 5 - Jesus condemns the idea of setting aside even "the least" of the commandments.

At a later point it is Jesus asking the Jews about what they view as being the whole summation of the Law and they show that they also view those two commandments the same way. Luke 10:26-28

26 And He (Jesus) said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And He (Jesus) said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this and you will live.”
​

Neither Matt 22 nor Luke 10 is a case of Jesus - or the Jews -- claiming all of scripture had been deleted save for two commands.

 

[Leaf473]

Heb 8:6-12 says Jesus is the One speaking His Commandments at Sinai. And Paul says His Commandments include the Ten having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

I know we've talked about this before, so it's fine if you don't want to respond. But
would you (or anyone reading this)
be willing to post five more commandments from the law of Moses that you believe qualify as Jesus' commandments?

 

[Halbhh]

"Love God with all your heart" - is Jesus quoting Deut 6:5 in Matt 22.
"Love your neighbor as yourself" - is Jesus quoting Lev 19:18 - in Matt 22

And the Jews agreed with Jesus' point

As you point out in Matt 5 - Jesus condemns the idea of setting aside even "the least" of the commandments.

At a later point it is Jesus asking the Jews about what they view as being the whole summation of the Law and they show that they also view those two commandments the same way. Luke 10:26-28

26 And He (Jesus) said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And He (Jesus) said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this and you will live.”
​

Neither Matt 22 nor Luke 10 is a case of Jesus - or the Jews -- claiming all of scripture had been deleted save for two commands.

Yes, that's right, though Christ does tell us a crucial thing about those 2 commandments:

Matthew 22:40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

And we of course want to be sure to listen to Him, as He says that to us. So, we understand why these 2 are the 'greatest commandments', and that all the rest of the law is about supporting/doing these 2 essential goals.

So, then, we can therefore see how it's correct when we read:

Romans 13:8 Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love. For he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

In that real love for one another does fulfill "love your neighbor as yourself" and all the various detailed laws aimed to achieve that, as also summarized generally by Matthew 7:12

 

[BobRyan]

I know we've talked about this before, so it's fine if you don't want to respond. But
would you (or anyone reading this)
be willing to post five more commandments from the law of Moses that you believe qualify as Jesus' commandments?

At least we can say you are "consistent" in going to threads on the 10 commandments and while opposing the 10... ask that we talk about something other than the 10. So since the title of this one does no mention the ten - I see it as more favorable to your preference.

Since it is not my thread I will let Halbhh address your ideas/suggestions here.

 

[Leaf473]

At least we can say you are "consistent" in going to threads on the 10 commandments and while opposing the 10... ask that we talk about something other than the 10. So since the title of this one does no mention the ten - I see it as more favorable to your preference.

Since it is not my thread I will let Halbhh address your ideas/suggestions here.

If you are saying that the ten commandments aren't mentioned in the title or the OP, then we agree there.

I don't oppose the ten commandments.

The thread title asks which commandments. You responded, and I'm inviting you to expand on your response.

If you want to do that and don't feel this is the right place, replying on a different thread would be great.

And may the peace of the Lord be always with you, my man!

 

[Soyeong]

Lord Jesus in John 14:15 says, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” What commandments are those? He doesn’t say in the verses that follow in this chapter, or in the ones before. And we are hard-pressed to assert that the word “commandments” is a misnomer, unless it can be shown that it is a mistranslation. Seems that based on just the reading of this passage, a better phrasing would be. “If you love me, you will keep my TEACHINGS.” But how hard is it to translate the word ‘teachings’? So we must presume, in the context of 2 Timothy 3:16, that every word in the Bible is as is.

If a commandment is a way to express love for Jesus, then we should consider it to be a commandment that he was referring to, and all of the commandments that God has given were specifically given for the purpose of teaching us how to love Jesus. The Son is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), so he is the physical manifestation of the nature of God expressed through a life lived in sinless obedience to God's law, so when we express aspects of his nature through following his example of obedience to God's law, we are expressing our love for that aspect of who Christ is, which is why there are many verses in both the OT and the NT that connect our obedience to God with our love for Him. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so experientially knowing Jesus is the goal of the law, which comes by experiencing His nature. In John 14:24, Jesus said that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father, so he did not depart from what the Father taught. In 2 Timothy 3:15-17, it refers to Scripture that Timothy had available to him since infancy, which could not have referred to any of the books of the NT because they hadn't yet been written at that point.

The commandments that Jesus mentions or refers to is what he considers in Matthew 22:34-40 to be the two great Commandments- That we love God with all our heart, soul and mind, and we love our neighbor as we love ourselves. The latter Commandment is a “new” Commandment of Jesus, expressed in John 13:34.

How much stock could we take in Matthew 22:34-40? After all, the words he spoke were in response to a question posed to him by a Pharisee, and within that phrase Jesus says the two Commandments sum up the Law. But the Bible tells us later on that the Law is not needed when we put our full love in Jesus. The disciples of Jesus say that the true object of our faith is God through Lord Jesus, not the Laws in Leviticus and Deuteronomy that God commanded to be followed in an earlier time. Hebrews 6:1 says to “leave the elementary doctrine of Christ.” The “elementary doctrine of Christ” is said to be the Laws that God gave to Moses and that Moses, in turn, gave to the Hebrews.

A sum is inclusive of all of its parts, so if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for all of God's other laws. Jesus said that all of the other laws hang on the greatest two, so they are all connected. Nowhere does the Bible say that the God's law is not needed once we put our full love in Jesus, but rather obedience to it is the way to put our full love in him. If someone has the position that they once they have full love in Jesus, then they no longer need to obey God's law and are free to commit the things I listed, then they would be missing the point, but if the full love of Jesus is inclusive of the things that I listed, then I don't see the point of stating that the list is no longer needed. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of God's law, so obedience to it is the way to put our faith in him. It should be noted that that is how some have interpreted Hebrews 6:1, but that is not what that verse directly states.

But you have Jesus in Matthew 5:18-19 saying, “For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least vin the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great vin the kingdom of heaven.” With Lord Jesus, God’s Commandments are his Commandments.

And what is it that is to be “accomplished”? Based on the reading of the Bible, it is to fulfill the two great commandments of Jesus, mentioned above. The inference is that once we achieve loving God and eachother, we need not be mindful of the 400 some-odd Laws in the Old Testament. In a sense, at this point we have become weaned off of milk and have gone on to solid food.

Love fulfills the entire law because that is one the entire law is essentially about how to do. In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came to abolish it, so fulfilling the law should not be interpreted as meaning essentially the same thing, but rather Jesus fulfilled the law by teaching how to correctly obey it. Inferring that once we achieve loving God and each other we need not be mindful of God's other laws is the opposite of Jesus warning against relaxing the least part of the law or teaching others to do the same. The greatest two commandments at a lot easier said than done, so thankfully God gave us all of the other laws to paint us a picture of what it looks like to correctly obey them.

When we love God and eachother, we don’t need directions from the Law. But until then? Jesus tells us not to throw it away until we truly love him. I tell you that, in a world ruled by Satan, some people may think they truly love Lord Jesus, but their actions show otherwise. Their works are not God’s Works given to us, but are their own, amounting to the wages of sin. Seems they need the Law more than many of us do, and they are further from Lord Jesus than we are, in terms of loving him.

In Matthew 24:12-14, Jesus said that because of lawlessness the love of many will grow cold, which is the opposite of saying that because we have love we don't need directions from the law.

 

[Leaf473]

If a commandment is a way to express love for Jesus, then we should consider it to be a commandment that he was referring to, and all of the commandments that God has given were specifically given for the purpose of teaching us how to love Jesus. The Son is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), so he is the physical manifestation of the nature of God expressed through a life lived in sinless obedience to God's law, so when we express aspects of his nature through following his example of obedience to God's law, we are expressing our love for that aspect of who Christ is, which is why there are many verses in both the OT and the NT that connect our obedience to God with our love for Him. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so experientially knowing Jesus is the goal of the law, which comes by experiencing His nature. In John 14:24, Jesus said that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father, so he did not depart from what the Father taught. In 2 Timothy 3:15-17, it refers to Scripture that Timothy had available to him since infancy, which could not have referred to any of the books of the NT because they hadn't yet been written at that point.



A sum is inclusive of all of its parts, so if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for all of God's other laws. Jesus said that all of the other laws hang on the greatest two, so they are all connected. Nowhere does the Bible say that the God's law is not needed once we put our full love in Jesus, but rather obedience to it is the way to put our full love in him. If someone has the position that they once they have full love in Jesus, then they no longer need to obey God's law and are free to commit the things I listed, then they would be missing the point, but if the full love of Jesus is inclusive of the things that I listed, then I don't see the point of stating that the list is no longer needed. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of God's law, so obedience to it is the way to put our faith in him. It should be noted that that is how some have interpreted Hebrews 6:1, but that is not what that verse directly states.



Love fulfills the entire law because that is one the entire law is essentially about how to do. In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came to abolish it, so fulfilling the law should not be interpreted as meaning essentially the same thing, but rather Jesus fulfilled the law by teaching how to correctly obey it. Inferring that once we achieve loving God and each other we need not be mindful of God's other laws is the opposite of Jesus warning against relaxing the least part of the law or teaching others to do the same. The greatest two commandments at a lot easier said than done, so thankfully God gave us all of the other laws to paint us a picture of what it looks like to correctly obey them.


In Matthew 24:12-14, Jesus said that because of lawlessness the love of many will grow cold, which is the opposite of saying that because we have love we don't need directions from the law.

Hi Soyeong,

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here.

Following the train of thought, here is the issue that I run into:

God says don't murder, so if we love God and other people we won't murder them.
(Makes a lot of sense so far.)

God says to remember the Sabbath, so if we love God and other people we will do that too.
(Doesn't make quite as much sense as before. Why is God fixated on a certain day? And how does that show love to other people? But okay, if it's really that important to God, then we'll do it.)

Don't cut the edges of your beard.
(Okay. Now this has just gotten weird. God is concerned about the length of my sideburns? Or sidelocks, whatever? And this has been missed by the vast majority of Christians throughout history?)

Looking forward to hearing from you!

 

[Soyeong]

Hi Soyeong,

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here.

Following the train of thought, here is the issue that I run into:

Hello, no problem.

Just to further confirm that law is God's instruction for how to express, experience, love, believe in, and testify about God's nature, the Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:22), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23). Furthermore, there are many verses that show that at God's way is the way that He chooses to express aspect of His nature, such as with God's way being righteous and just (Genesis 18:19), or with it being righteous, blameless, merciful, pure, humble, light, perfect, true, liberty, and gentleness (2 Samuel 22:21-37) and there are many verses that describe God's law as being instructions for how to walk in God's way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and Psalms 119:1-3).

So the issue is not whether God's law teaches us how to express, experience, love, believe in, and testify about God's nature, but rather the issue is needing to discern the way that it teaches us how to do that, and as you noted that is not always obvious. The two main categories of law in the Bible are the mishpatim and the chukim. The mishpatim are in regard to justice and are based on the principle of treating our neighbor the way we want to be treated, so they are straightforwardly obviously why God commanded them and can often be found as laws in most other civilized societies. However, the chukim do not straightforwardly make sense why God commanded them and they do not come with an explanation for why God commanded them, which practically invite to ponder what God is teaching us about His nature through Him, such as the laws in regard to the red heifer in Numbers 19. Furthermore, they tend to be more in regard to our relationship with God than our relationship with our neighbor.

I've seen some pretty good explanations for some of the chukim, but when we don't understand why God commanded something, then we have no greater opportunity to have faith in God to rightly guide us by obeying it anyway, however, if we obey a law without understanding what God was teaching us about His nature through it, then we are not really expressing, experiencing, loving, believing in, or testifying about that aspect of God's nature, which is why the law essentially invites us to ponder those laws and why studying God's law is so important. Though at the end of the day we still need to obey God's law even if we don't understand why He commanded it because He is sovereign and because we have faith. Incidentally, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Holy Spirit has the role of leading us to obey both the mishpatim and the chukim, and the fruits of the Spirit are all of aspects of God's nature.

God says don't murder, so if we love God and other people we won't murder them.
(Makes a lot of sense so far.)

God says to remember the Sabbath, so if we love God and other people we will do that too.
(Doesn't make quite as much sense as before. Why is God fixated on a certain day? And how does that show love to other people? But okay, if it's really that important to God, then we'll do it.)

Don't cut the edges of your beard.
(Okay. Now this has just gotten weird. God is concerned about the length of my sideburns? Or sidelocks, whatever? And this has been missed by the vast majority of Christians throughout history?)

Looking forward to hearing from you!

The Sabbath commands people to let their servants, animals, and the land to rest on the 7th day, so it is showing love for them, but it is a time for fellowship with our community, but it is also a time to grow in a relationship with God 1 on 1. It also expresses our love for God by testifying that He created the world in six days, rested on the 7th, that he is holy, and that He interacts in history to save His people out of bondage.

In Leviticus 19:27, the Hebrew word used means "destroy, devastate, mar, ravage, ruin, spoil, waste, etc.", none of which are terms that I would ever use to describe trimming my beard, but rather all of these terms have the connotation of violence being done. The action being described is more akin to someone starting with a neatly trimmed hedge and hacking away at it haphazardly with a chainsaw than to starting with an overgrown hedge and making its sides even. The command in Leviticus 19:27 is also associated with the command in Leviticus 19:28 against making cuts on our flesh for the dead, so I think that it has to do with prohibiting a pagan mourning ritual that involved someone ripping out tufts of hair from their beard.

 

[Leaf473]

Hello, no problem.

Just to further confirm that law is God's instruction for how to express, experience, love, believe in, and testify about God's nature, the Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:22), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23). Furthermore, there are many verses that show that at God's way is the way that He chooses to express aspect of His nature, such as with God's way being righteous and just (Genesis 18:19), or with it being righteous, blameless, merciful, pure, humble, light, perfect, true, liberty, and gentleness (2 Samuel 22:21-37) and there are many verses that describe God's law as being instructions for how to walk in God's way, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and Psalms 119:1-3).

So the issue is not whether God's law teaches us how to express, experience, love, believe in, and testify about God's nature, but rather the issue is needing to discern the way that it teaches us how to do that, and as you noted that is not always obvious. The two main categories of law in the Bible are the mishpatim and the chukim. The mishpatim are in regard to justice and are based on the principle of treating our neighbor the way we want to be treated, so they are straightforwardly obviously why God commanded them and can often be found as laws in most other civilized societies. However, the chukim do not straightforwardly make sense why God commanded them and they do not come with an explanation for why God commanded them, which practically invite to ponder what God is teaching us about His nature through Him, such as the laws in regard to the red heifer in Numbers 19. Furthermore, they tend to be more in regard to our relationship with God than our relationship with our neighbor.

I've seen some pretty good explanations for some of the chukim, but when we don't understand why God commanded something, then we have no greater opportunity to have faith in God to rightly guide us by obeying it anyway, however, if we obey a law without understanding what God was teaching us about His nature through it, then we are not really expressing, experiencing, loving, believing in, or testifying about that aspect of God's nature, which is why the law essentially invites us to ponder those laws and why studying God's law is so important. Though at the end of the day we still need to obey God's law even if we don't understand why He commanded it because He is sovereign and because we have faith. Incidentally, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Holy Spirit has the role of leading us to obey both the mishpatim and the chukim, and the fruits of the Spirit are all of aspects of God's nature.



The Sabbath commands people to let their servants, animals, and the land to rest on the 7th day, so it is showing love for them, but it is a time for fellowship with our community, but it is also a time to grow in a relationship with God 1 on 1. It also expresses our love for God by testifying that He created the world in six days, rested on the 7th, that he is holy, and that He interacts in history to save His people out of bondage.

In Leviticus 19:27, the Hebrew word used means "destroy, devastate, mar, ravage, ruin, spoil, waste, etc.", none of which are terms that I would ever use to describe trimming my beard, but rather all of these terms have the connotation of violence being done. The action being described is more akin to someone starting with a neatly trimmed hedge and hacking away at it haphazardly with a chainsaw than to starting with an overgrown hedge and making its sides even. The command in Leviticus 19:27 is also associated with the command in Leviticus 19:28 against making cuts on our flesh for the dead, so I think that it has to do with prohibiting a pagan mourning ritual that involved someone ripping out tufts of hair from their beard.

I hear that, go with the interpretation of the law that fits with what we already know about God. I think that's what the OP is getting at, love God and love other people.

So the commandment not to cut the edges of our beards actually means don't engage in pagan practices.

To me, the Sabbath commandment points to the idea of not seeking after mammon 7 days a week, which is another pagan practice.

Like this from The sermon on the Mount:
See the birds of the sky, that they do not sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns, and your heavenly Father feeds them.
For the pagans eagerly seek after all these things.

One person benefits from a special 1 on 1 time with God every seventh day, another person hangs out with God everyday. So I think it's important that the person who values the special day not judge the person who thinks of all days alike... and vice versa.

 

[DamianWarS]

So the commandment not to cut the edges of our beards actually means don't engage in pagan practices.

it falls into the separation-focused laws like don't mix grains or thread, the dietary laws, don't trim your beads like others etc... They are somewhat arbitrarily given except that they serve to separate the Israelites from other nations. The interpreted message is not about abstaining from pagan practices itself, which Paul comments on with regards to eating foods sacrificed to idols, but that God is a part of us, he directs our steps and he calls us to be set apart. The reinterpreted message is always more abstract and gets to the core of the law rather than checkbox driven.

 

[Soyeong]

One person benefits from a special 1 on 1 time with God every seventh day, another person hangs out with God everyday. So I think it's important that the person who values the special day not judge the person who thinks of all days alike... and vice versa.

You are making a category error by taking what was only said about the teaching of of men and applying it to the commandments of God. The Sabbath is not even motioned once in Romans 14 precisely because it had nothing to do with the topic that he was discussing, namely how to handle disputable matters of opinion (14:1). Where God has given a command, human opinion must yield, disputable matters of opinion are in regard to issues where God has given no command. For example, in Romans 14:2-3, Paul gave no command to eat only vegetables, so whether someone chooses to do that is a disputable matter of opinion. In Romans 14:5-6, Paul was speaking to those who ate or refrained from eating unto the Lord, so he was speaking about those who esteem certain days for fasting as a disputable matter of opinion. God gave no command to fast twice a week, but that had become a common practice in the 1st century (Luke 18:12) and people were passing judgement on each other based on whether or not they chose to do that, and were even passing judgment on each other for which two days of the week they chose to fast (Didache 8:1-2), so it was exactly this sort of judging each other over opinions that Paul was addressing in this chapter. Paul was not suggesting that we are free to commit adultery, idolatry, theft, murder, break the Sabbath, or disobey any of God's other commands as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok, but rather that was only said in regard to things that are disputable matters of opinion.

 

[Leaf473]

it falls into the separation-focused laws like don't mix grains or thread, the dietary laws, don't trim your beads like others etc... They are somewhat arbitrarily given except that they serve to separate the Israelites from other nations. The interpreted message is not about abstaining from pagan practices itself, which Paul comments on with regards to eating foods sacrificed to idols, but that God is a part of us, he directs our steps and he calls us to be set apart. The reinterpreted message is always more abstract and gets to the core of the law rather than checkbox driven.

Yes, those laws were probably given to make the Israelites separate from the other nations. I can't be sure, it's not stated, but that certainly seems to be the most likely explanation.

And this brings up something that I think underlies most discussions about the law:
Christians know on a gut level (as in "written on their hearts") the general direction of the Christian Life and which laws fit with that and which don't.

No one that I've talked to, including Messianics, believe that God is concerned about the content of their socks.

And yes, it's not the pagan practices as such that have to be avoided. I think that in Corinth at that time, many people probably thought that when you ate the sacrifices of a god, you took on some of the characteristics and essence of that god and participated in its worship.

But if you knew that the "god" was just a statue, then it didn't matter. But not everyone had that knowledge, and some people were stumbling.

 

[Leaf473]

You are making a category error by taking what was only said about the teaching of of men and applying it to the commandments of God. The Sabbath is not even motioned once in Romans 14 precisely because it had nothing to do with the topic that he was discussing, namely how to handle disputable matters of opinion (14:1). Where God has given a command, human opinion must yield, disputable matters of opinion are in regard to issues where God has given no command. For example, in Romans 14:2-3, Paul gave no command to eat only vegetables, so whether someone chooses to do that is a disputable matter of opinion. In Romans 14:5-6, Paul was speaking to those who ate or refrained from eating unto the Lord, so he was speaking about those who esteem certain days for fasting as a disputable matter of opinion. God gave no command to fast twice a week, but that had become a common practice in the 1st century (Luke 18:12) and people were passing judgement on each other based on whether or not they chose to do that, and were even passing judgment on each other for which two days of the week they chose to fast (Didache 8:1-2), so it was exactly this sort of judging each other over opinions that Paul was addressing in this chapter. Paul was not suggesting that we are free to commit adultery, idolatry, theft, murder, break the Sabbath, or disobey any of God's other commands as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok, but rather that was only said in regard to things that are disputable matters of opinion.

Well, we have a different interpretation of the Sabbath commandment. Similar to how when it comes to the beard trimming commandment, you and I together have a different interpretation than this gentleman

 

[Soyeong]

Well, we have a different interpretation of the Sabbath commandment. Similar to how when it comes to the beard trimming commandment, you and I together have a different interpretation than this gentleman

Indeed, people have different interpretations of the Bible, though not all interpretations are created equal, which is why is why it is so important to discuss our interpretations to determine which, if any, has merit, though there is a significant difference between discussing how to correctly interpret what Leviticus 19:27 is commanding God's people to do and you interpreting God's word as speaking against obeying God's word when the Sabbath isn't even mentioned once in Romans 14. Again, the topic stated in Romans 14:1 is in regard to how to handle disputable matters of opinion, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow His commands, so nothing in the chapter should be interpreted as speaking against obeying God's commands, as if Paul had the authority to countermand God. The reason why we are to keep the Sabbath holy is not became man esteemed it as a disputable matter of opinion, but because God rest on on it, blessed it, made it holy, commanded His people to keep it holy, and because what is holy to God should not be profaned by man.