Jer 31:31-34

SabbathBlessings said:

I prefer to go by how the bible defines it.

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Insult begats insult. In other word you are implying I don't.

SabbathBlessings said:

James 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;

The Royal Law is the greatest commandments

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And is written in the Book of the Law,

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

As is not having respect of person's position in life.

Lev 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

And while we are at it lets consider verses 1:28 and 29 . These teachings are found also in the Old Testament. In Ps., Pro., and Is. to name a few.

So in this discourse we find that James through God names teachings that are through the Holy Writ. not just on the Tables of stone.



Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Then we have verse 10 which starts with the word for. As you know that means what is about be said is the reason or a continuation to what was said. In other words it is the same context and law is being said in relation to the ones already mentioned.


Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

As we continue, we have the use of the word "for" again in verse 11 continuing the same context adding the Ten commandments to what he means when speaking of the Law.

In summary we have God through James first speaking from the Psalms and Proverbs. And then Leviticus. And in closing this discourse He brings the Ten into it. So one must surmise the Law is actually the Book of the Law, Psalms and Proverbs and the Ten in respect to what God is conveying here. Which in retrospect makes sense when one considers that the end of chapter one brings to our attention that we are begotten by the word of truth. In this we are new creature having the engrafted word. And so being we are not to forget what manner man we are having the engrafted word. And We are to be a doer of this word that is engrafted not a forgetful hearer only. For this engrafted word, this what we become is the perfect Law that is of Liberty. Not the Law when it is on parchment and Tables of Stone, for that perfected no one and subjected us unto bondage. but when God placed it, the word, the Law in our hearts and in our mouths that we do it. That is the word of faith in which we preach and gave us liberty. And that is in which we will be judged.


Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

SabbathBlessings said:

The Greatest Commandments are the Ten summarized, never deleting the details. The first 4 commandments are love to God, the last 6 love to our neighbor, magnified as demonstrated by Jesus Mat 5:19-30

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His sermon does not stop there. In it he mentions laws throughout the Book of the law also. So I am not sure why you would post that.

HIM said:

Insult begats insult. In other word you are implying I don't.

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I’m sorry. I was not trying to be insulting, that was not my intention. You disagreed with my post, but only used your own reasoning, which is why I said that. I was talking about 1 specific post Jer 31:31-34 Not all of your posts as you can see my history I like and agree with many of them. You call me out when you disagree, I was saying, hey let’s look at what the scriptures say on this matter.

HIM said:

And is written in the Book of the Law,

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

As is not having respect of person's position in life.

Lev 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

And while we are at it lets consider verses 1:28 and 29 . These teachings are found also in the Old Testament. In Ps., Pro., and Is. to name a few.

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The book of the law contains many writings, curses, blessing and laws, but that does not make it all the Royal Law as no scripture says this. A verse imho would be important that says the book of the law is the Royal law like James says quoting directly from the greatest commandments to define what he is referring to.

HIM said:

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

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James is quoting explicitly saying the Royal Law is the greatest commandments by directly quoting what he is referring to. We also have scripture showing the greatest commandments are the Ten summarized Rom 13:9 and always have to clarify not for you, but for others that the summary does not delete the details.

HIM said:

Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

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And then James explicitly only quotes and contrasts from the Ten Commandments calling them the law of Liberty and what we will be Judged by which reconciles in other scriptures like Ecc 12:13-14, Mat 5:19-30, Rev 22:14-15

It doesn't say the Book of the law is the Royal Law or the law of Liberty anywhere in the scriptures..

The book of the law was placed beside the ark placed there as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 it contained all the curses Deut 28:15 for not obeying God's perfect law of liberty that was written by God alone, placed inside the ark. If everyone would have obeyed God's law, there would not have been a law of Moses so can't be the law of Liberty, which is why James is only quoting and contrasting directly from the Ten. God Himself elevated the Ten Commandments from all other laws- spoken and written personally by God. This is His work Exo 32:16 not the work of Moses. Yes, there are other laws, but the Ten are on a whole other foundation. There is not one law that does not have an umbrella back to the Ten the way Christ magnified them Isa 42:21 Mat 5:19-30- God’s perfect law converting the soul. Psa 19:7 that He loved us so much did not leave up to a human to write. His perfect will for man Psa 40:8

DamianWarS said:

so you're saying Paul is lying? to get this straight this isn't a commentary from someone else, this is Paul writing a letter to the Galatians after the fact and by his own admission, he publically claims Peter is living like a Gentile. even if untrue, "living like a Gentile" is not Paul's issue, Paul's issue is that Peter is being 2 faced about it.

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I gave you the facts as written in acts. It is for you to sort it out. Use discernment not your feelings.

DamianWarS said:

the tablets of stone are referenced as "the tablets of covenant law". they are put inside the "art of the covenant". The sabbath is a sign of the covenant, these all establish covenant boundaries not cause to remove them from their covenant for them to act alone. They were taken outside the ark essentially so Joshua could swear by them, the same way we do in a court of law swearing on a bible. Both Moses and Joshua were leaders within the boundaries of the old covenant. The tablets are indeed elevated, but they are elevated within their covenant and there is not one suggestion to remove them so they may act alone. I can see by your remarks that you see the 10 should act on their own, but where is your scriptural support for ripping them away from their covenant? when you evoke the 10 you invoke the entire law with it, that's what made pulling them out of the ark so much more powerful.

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Still you refuse to see, apart from the 10 commandments, many laws given to moses cannot be followed today for different reasons, go througm them one by one snd see, the isrealites living for 400 years in captivity were worshipping egyptian gods before the exodus they were in need of a complete reform. The 10 commandments are the moral core, permanent, will never change and should be obeyed as given. The rest of the law of Moses, what can be applicable and good today should also be observed if possible, Why not..

DamianWarS said:

Paul motivation in acts for the vow he took be it narzarite or other was a contexalizing focus towards Jews. He says himself in 1 Cor 9 "to the Jew I become as a Jew... I do this all for the sake of the gospel..." So if his comments reflect his motivations he took the vow for the sake of the gospel so that he may better serve a Jewish community.

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DamianWarS said:

Paul motivation in acts for the vow he took be it narzarite or other was a contexalizing focus towards Jews. He says himself in 1 Cor 9 "to the Jew I become as a Jew... I do this all for the sake of the gospel..." So if his comments reflect his motivations he took the vow for the sake of the gospel so that he may better serve a Jewish community.

Regarding his rebuke toward Peter it is clear Peter is being spoken of as living like a gentile but being 2 faced about it with other Jews and causing problems, the later is Paul's concern not the former. The meaning is plainly understood, Peter was living like a gentile.

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Damian, this is an interesting topic worth a post, please start a new post on this topic and I will gladly discuss this is too far off of the opening post,

Blessings

DamianWarS said:

The 4th is ceremonial in natural not moral. It even starts off saying "remember the 7th day..." It's a memorial event of the 7th day celebrated through rest. This is not an example of critical moral code even if you call it that, it simply is not. Law always does not come labeled. There is no ceremonial law or moral law, this is just law. We have given them labels for various reasons, one of them is to separate law but law is never meant to be separated.

There may be many laws that don't work today based on modern living or geography but certainly not just the 10 are relevant. Circumcision is an example, millions across the 3 major religions still circumsize and it is a common enough practice that if you wanted it done it can happen, adult or child. But new covenant teaching reveals to us the meaning of circumsize and we don't need to perform this act physically for it to have meaning.

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Damian, how can you say the 4th commandment is not moral? Is obeying a simple command from God immoral. this command is not just about rest it is a sign between you and GOD that you acknowledge His divinity and show also your respect by obeying.

The Fourth Commandment, as in the King James Version of the Bible, is a profound declaration of the sacredness of rest and the sanctity of time set apart for God. It is found in Exodus 20:8-11, which directs, “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”

This commandment stands out as a divine ordinance not merely for rest but as a declaration of a special relationship between God and His people. The Sabbath is not only a day of physical rest but also a sign of the covenant between God and humanity. It serves as a reminder of creation itself, underscoring that God, after His work of creation, rested and blessed this day. It is set apart as a day to reflect on the divine order and to rejuvenate both body and spirit in harmony with God’s design.

Isaiah, in his prophetic writings, further illuminates the significance of the Sabbath. In Isaiah 58:13-14, the prophet declares, “If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.” Here, Isaiah assert that the Sabbath is a day to be cherished and honored, distinct from ordinary activities. It is a day set apart to focus on God's holiness and to experience His blessings.

YES A PROMISE IS YOU FOLLOW THE SABBATH!: I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

the Lord has spoken it and the Lord is unchanging!

The Sabbath is a day of holy observance, intended to offer a rhythm of rest and worship that aligns human lives with divine intention. In Ezekiel 20:12, we read, “Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.” This passage highlights the Sabbath as a sign of God’s sanctifying power and His covenant relationship with His people, His people being those who do His Will, not just the Israelites. It is a day designated for renewal and for drawing closer to God, reinforcing the special bond established through His commandments. Thus, the Sabbath transcends mere rest; it is an embodiment of God’s covenant and an opportunity for spiritual connection and renewal.

My reply is long enough, we may speak about the second paragraph later, I am out of steam, it is super Hot where I live ( 38 dregees centigrade) and I need a rest, my computer too...

Blessings.

DamianWarS said:

If obedience is the only measure we need to call something moral than the entire law is moral code and your argument falls apart. If we look at morally critically it is about how our actions effect others positively. the 10 commandments are not all moral in this way and 6-10 are more universally moral. Where 1-5 can be called regliously moral in that they require religious knowledge in order to obey them.

You don't need to be told a universal moral in order to understand it. So we don't need to be told to murdering, stealing or sleeping with your neighbor's wife are wrong, they are wrong because of how they effect others negatively. With the sabbath sure rest is positive and a natural thing, and so is routine rest but the sabbath has specific instructions for it be observable naturally without having the knowledge of the sabbath first.

We rest when it gets dark, this is natural and brought upon by the setting of the sun, there are lunar cycles we can naturally observe, and seasons in the year but there is no natural weekly cycle so that I know when Sabbath is upon me. In order to observe sabbath, I need to be told first how to observe it.

The truth is, your argument only works if the 10 is looked at in a vacuum. But the 10 should not be separated from the covenant they are created in, when we envoke obedience on the 10 as moral code we envoke obedience upon the entire law as moral code.

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why do you say obedience is the only measure, did I say this? why would one Obey GOD's commands? simply to obey? If you do not LOVE GOD enough to follow his lead it is on you. All God does is for us. it it a choice that is put before us as it is written;


Deu 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Deu 30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

Deu 30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong yourdays upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Deu 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

DamianWarS said:

This still doesn't make the 4th commandment innately moral code. Again I'm looking at this critically, you seem interested in other measures.

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I cannot find this in the scriptures that says the 4th commandment is not moral to keep. God has some strong words about not keeping the Sabbath and what it does to Him. Eze 22:26

Christ said keeping the Sabbath was doing righteousness Isa 56:1-6 Psa 119:172- sounds moral to me. Obeying God will always be moral, disobeying Him is rebellion and sin. The Ten Commandments was never multiple choice or optional, but kept through faith and love by God’s people. 1 John 5:3 John 14:15 Exo 20:6 Rev 14:12 just as Jesus kept who is our example.

DamianWarS said:

This still doesn't make the 4th commandment innately moral code. Again I'm looking at this critically, you seem interested in other measures.

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The other measures you mention are the very few verses from the bible, defining the sabbath, yes the word of GOD, it is for you to decide what you do with the word of GOD, you have free will.
Like I mentioned before in full context, (post 91) for understanding this is an excerpt;
Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

JesusFollowerForever said:

The other measures you mention are the very few verses from the bible, defining the sabbath, yes the word of GOD, it is for you to decide what you do with the word of GOD, you have free will.
Like I mentioned before in full context, (post 91) for understanding this is an excerpt;
Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

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Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

Yes, we have to have room for faith, it is inconsistent to deem 9 of God‘s Ten Commandments as moral and choose to deem the only commandment God said to Remember and uses the words holy and blessed as immoral, it is essentially making oneself their own god. Its certainly not anything God, Jesus, the apostles of His faithful followers taught. They all kept the Sabbath.

DamianWarS said:

Why then are you separating the Word of God if you are so committed to it? It is not just the 10, it is the whole thing. What gives you authority to separate it?

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I did not separate it, see below what I have mentioned to you before;

The tablets of stone where the 10 commandments were written by the finger of GOD himself was originally placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, alongside in later times with other items such as a jar of manna and Aaron’s rod that budded. However, there is an instance in Deuteronomy 31:26 where Moses instructs to put the "book of the law" beside the Ark, not inside it: "Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee."

This placement of the book outside the Ark signifies a distinction between the tablets of the Ten Commandments, which were central and sacred, and the broader body of laws given to the Israelites. The tablets inside the Ark symbolize the core, eternal covenant between God and Israel, while the book of the law placed outside serves as a written witness or record of the laws, ensuring they are accessible to the people for guidance and instruction.
This arrangement reflects the relationship between the unchanging, foundational terms of the covenant represented by the tablets, and the dynamic aspects of the law and its application in daily life, as recorded in the book.

BTW I did say to you that if people want to follow the rest of the law of Moses that is still applicable, they certainly can.

You invent things again or never read my replies to you so we are done!

JesusFollowerForever said:

I did not separate it, see below what I have mentioned to you before;

The tablets of stone where the 10 commandments were written by the finger of GOD himself was originally placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, alongside in later times with other items such as a jar of manna and Aaron’s rod that budded. However, there is an instance in Deuteronomy 31:26 where Moses instructs to put the "book of the law" beside the Ark, not inside it: "Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee."

This placement of the book outside the Ark signifies a distinction between the tablets of the Ten Commandments, which were central and sacred, and the broader body of laws given to the Israelites. The tablets inside the Ark symbolize the core, eternal covenant between God and Israel, while the book of the law placed outside serves as a written witness or record of the laws, ensuring they are accessible to the people for guidance and instruction.
This arrangement reflects the relationship between the unchanging, foundational terms of the covenant represented by the tablets, and the dynamic aspects of the law and its application in daily life, as recorded in the book.

BTW I did say to you that if people want to follow the rest of the law of Moses that is still applicable, they certainly can.

You invent things again or never read my replies to you so we are done!

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Good point!

God separated the Ten Commandments apart from all the other laws of Moses.

2 Kings 21:8 and I will not make the feet of Israel wander anymore from the land which I gave their fathers—only if they are careful to do according to all that I have commanded them, and according to all the law that My servant Moses commanded them.

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone. 14 And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might [d]observe them in the land which you cross over to possess.

And means in addition to, not the same as.

Sadly man tries to make them as the same, when God didn't. God writing- the Creator of Heaven and Earth- no greater Authority than He. The Ten Commandments started way before the law of Moses. God just wrote them on stone at Mt Sinai and spoke them to the Nation of Israel which represents God's people.

New Covenant:

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Apparently God's law never went anywhere except written in the hearts and minds of God's believers and why it's still a sin to break them even in the New Covenant Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 1 John 3:4 Mat 5:19-30 and why Jesus and the apostles kept and taught them. Mat 15:3-14 1 Cor 7:19

The Sabbath is still a commandment even in the NT Luke 23:56 and was kept faithfully decades after the cross Acts 18:4 just as Jesus said He faithful would be doing Mat 24:20.

The New Covenant is established on better promises Heb 8:6 the question no one tries to understand is what are those better promises, but instead sadly focus on teaching to put aside God's law that He wrote in our hearts, which is rebellion Rom 8:7-8