Jer 31:31-34

[SabbathBlessings]

So we don't have to keep the literal aspect of that law in the new covenant instead we keep the spiritual.

If one was truly keeping the spiritual aspect of the commandments, the literal commandments would automatically be kept, not broken. The spiritual aspect is greater than the letter, not lessor. If we are hostile to God's law its really, not a good sign Rom 8:7-8 Heb10:26. All is not lost yet, we still have time to confess our sins and repent and turn direction, but we don't know what tomorrow brings which is why the Holy Spirit calls on us TODAY out of our rebellion Heb 3:7-8. If we love Jesus we should keep His commandments John 14:15 and follow His example 1 John 2:5-6

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I'm confused about how the Jeremiah text can be used to pull the 10 commandments out of the covenant they are explicitly bound to and then inject them into the new when it says the complete opposite.

I think that's the "I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more" part of the passage.

A good question to think on is: If God vows to "not remember" then by what basis are the commandments enforced?

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

So in one word, Love , fullfils the bondage of the law.
Thanks for engaging!

Why do you say the law is bondage it it because of paul's writings? In reality the law frees us from sin.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Why do you say the law is bondage it it because of paul's writings? In reality the law frees us from sin.

Maybe you can point to scripture that tells us that the law frees us from sin?

 

[daq]

why do you think the 10 commandments were kept inside the ark of the covenant and seen in in Heaven as per revelation , you do not see any differences? well, I am not surprised.

Here is why!;
The tablets of stone where the 10 commandments were written by the finger of GOD himself was originally placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, alongside in later times with other items such as a jar of manna and Aaron’s rod that budded. However, there is an instance in Deuteronomy 31:26 where Moses instructs to put the "book of the law" beside the Ark, not inside it: "Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee."

This placement of the book outside the Ark signifies a distinction between the tablets of the Ten Commandments, which were central and sacred, and the broader body of laws given to the Israelites. The tablets inside the Ark symbolize the core, eternal covenant between God and Israel, while the book of the law placed outside serves as a written witness or record of the laws, ensuring they are accessible to the people for guidance and instruction.
This arrangement reflects the relationship between the unchanging, foundational terms of the covenant represented by the tablets, and the dynamic aspects of the law and its application in daily life, as recorded in the book.

Actually it literally says in the side of the ark. It's more like the scroll mentioned, (now called Deuteronomy), was to face outward from the side of the ark in such a manner that it could be read by the Kohanim, (Priests).

Imagine something like a one-sided window in the side of the ark with the scroll inside it on rollers: this would be very similar to how the entire Torah scroll was later placed in similarly designed protective casings which open up in order for the scroll to be read. It is not difficult to imagine the (Deuteronomy) scroll placed in the side of the ark, facing outward, in much the same manner as the below image file.

Torah scroll - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And in the side is precisely what the KJV says in the passage, having rendered it correctly:

Deuteronomy 31:26
26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

It was placed there for a witness because it was facing outward, from within the side of the ark, so that it might be read by the Kohanim, (without needing to take the lid off the ark), and taught to the people. I am not sure how that might affect peoples' arguments here but what it does show is that the scroll in question was also part of the ark: the difference is inward, (the Ten), and outward, (the understanding flowing from the Ten).

 

[DamianWarS]

Galatians is mainly about circumcision. Circumcision is not one of the Ten Commandments

is not circumcision included Jer 31:31-34?

Galatians is also not about circumcision but if that's all you want to see let's see what Galatians says about circumcision:

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Galatians 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.

these verses sound familiar because they are the mirror version of 1 Cor 7:19

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.

this settles the debate about what "God's commandments" are since Paul spells it out here. Since only one thing can count Paul is talking about the same thing, he is nothing addressing in addition to or a list of things that count, they are all the same thing, but different ways of describing them. In Corinthians what counts is God's commandments so what are God's commandments? Galatians tells us they are "faith expressing itself through love" and "the new creation". if Paul is credible all must be the same thing. Faith expressed through love is the mantra of the new creation, if circumcision is the sign of the Abrahamic covenant, and sabbath was the sign of the Mosaic covenant, then fait expressing itself through love is the sign of the new covenant.

here's something else Galatians says
Galatians 5:14
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

does not also include the 10?

 

[DamianWarS]

Of course paul said this and it was false. At the end it is paul who had to prove he was not against the Torah and performed the nazarite vow so show that he was following Torah!

so you're saying Paul is lying? to get this straight this isn't a commentary from someone else, this is Paul writing a letter to the Galatians after the fact and by his own admission, he publically claims Peter is living like a Gentile. even if untrue, "living like a Gentile" is not Paul's issue, Paul's issue is that Peter is being 2 faced about it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

is not circumcision included Jer 31:31-34?

Galatians is also not about circumcision but if that's all you want to see let's see what Galatians says about circumcision:

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Galatians 6:15
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation.

these verses sound familiar because they are the mirror version of 1 Cor 7:19

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.

this settles the debate about what "God's commandments" are since Paul spells it out here. Since only one thing can count Paul is talking about the same thing, he is nothing addressing in addition to or a list of things that count, they are all the same thing, but different ways of describing them. In Corinthians what counts is God's commandments so what are God's commandments? Galatians tells us they are "faith expressing itself through love" and "the new creation". if Paul is credible all must be the same thing. Faith expressed through love is the mantra of the new creation, if circumcision is the sign of the Abrahamic covenant, and sabbath was the sign of the Mosaic covenant, then fait expressing itself through love is the sign of the new covenant.

here's something else Galatians says
Galatians 5:14
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

does not also include the 10?

Sorry, scripture does not delete scripture, these work in harmony, not we get to choose which one we like and the others get redefined/deleted.

God defined what are His commandments- Jesus affirmed.


Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Written in the Ten Commandments by God. Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16

Didn’t change definitions in the New Covenant according to Jesus

Mat 15:3
3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’ found right in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:12.

Once God defines something it’s best to not re-define. He is the Creator- we are the creation. We are to believe in Him and hard to do so when we don’t believe in His Word, they way He says and defines for us.

Does Paul countermand God? No because Paul is a servant and a servant is not greater than his master. Paul contrasted circumcision with God’s commandments that God defined and said keeping them is what matters, because it shows our love and faith in our Creator. John 14:15 1 John 5:3 Rom 3:31 Rev 14:12

Guess we will have to agree to disagree and all gets sorted out soon enough.

 

[DamianWarS]

why do you think the 10 commandments were kept inside the ark of the covenant and seen in in Heaven as per revelation , you do not see any differences? well, I am not surprised.

the tablets of stone are referenced as "the tablets of covenant law". they are put inside the "art of the covenant". The sabbath is a sign of the covenant, these all establish covenant boundaries not cause to remove them from their covenant for them to act alone. They were taken outside the ark essentially so Joshua could swear by them, the same way we do in a court of law swearing on a bible. Both Moses and Joshua were leaders within the boundaries of the old covenant. The tablets are indeed elevated, but they are elevated within their covenant and there is not one suggestion to remove them so they may act alone. I can see by your remarks that you see the 10 should act on their own, but where is your scriptural support for ripping them away from their covenant? when you evoke the 10 you invoke the entire law with it, that's what made pulling them out of the ark so much more powerful.

 

[DamianWarS]

If one was truly keeping the spiritual aspect of the commandments, the literal commandments would automatically be kept, not broken.

under that logic all males should be circumcised not because law instructs them, but because they are keeping the spiritual aspects of circumcision written upon their hearts so the physical should be a natural reflection of this too. Do you disagree? then show me why the 10 can be invoked but not circumcision? Scripture doesn't divorce law, if you pull out the 10, the entire law comes with it.

 

[DamianWarS]

I think that's the "I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more" part of the passage.

A good question to think on is: If God vows to "not remember" then by what basis are the commandments enforced?

which commandments is the hot topic. some like to use this verse to draw attention to the 10 commandments, and only the 10 commandments. I say who gave you authority to separate the 10 from the rest of law?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

under that logic all males should be circumcised not because law instructs them, but because they are keeping the spiritual aspects of circumcision written upon their hearts so the physical should be a natural reflection of this too. Do you disagree? then show me why the 10 can be invoked but not circumcision? Scripture doesn't divorce law, if you pull out the 10, the entire law comes with it.

Under your logic we can commit murder but not have anger in our heart. Not something Jesus ever taught. Jesus was not talking about circumcision in Mat 5:19-30 so best not to add what’s not there.

Circumcision is not part of the Ten Commandments- Paul said circumcision or not circumcision- it does not matter- but keeping the Commandments of God (that God and Jesus defined for us) is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I say who gave you authority to separate the 10 from the rest of law?

We don’t have to separate them God did on His Authority


How many commandments did God say were in His covenant?

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

After God alone wrote the Ten Commandments- He added no more

Deut 5:22 22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

God made the distinction so if one disagrees, will have to take it up with Him.

 

[DamianWarS]

Sorry, scripture does not delete scripture, these work in harmony, not we get to choose which one we like and the others get redefined/deleted.

God defined what are His commandments- Jesus affirmed.

indeed scripture doesn't delete scripture, and neither does law divorce law. you are conflating the term "commandments" with the 10 with no scriptural support. Scripture doesn't separate law, it's not just the 10, it is the whole thing and there is nothing that suggests otherwise. Paul is addressing the same point in all 3 verses, they are in fact mirror versions of each other. His conclusion is also the same, not 3 different points but 1 harmonized point that what counts is found within Christ not within the 10 commandments. This is support to show what the term commandments point to, (at least in this context) that is scripturally revealed. I'm not adding words and defining them outside of what the text cannot support. Certainly, with the case of 1 Cor 7:19 this is what Paul meant by "commandments", since he explains it himself, if you were to disagree you would be saying Paul contradicts himself.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

indeed scripture doesn't delete scripture, and neither does law divorce law. you are conflating the term "commandments" with the 10 with no scriptural support. Scripture doesn't separate law, it's not just the 10, it is the whole thing and there is nothing that suggests otherwise. Paul is addressing the same point in all 3 verses, they are in fact mirror versions of each other. His conclusion is also the same, not 3 different points but 1 harmonized point that what counts is found within Christ not within the 10 commandments. This is support to show what the term commandments point to, (at least in this context) that is scripturally revealed. I'm not adding words and defining them outside of what the text cannot support. Certainly, with the case of 1 Cor 7:19 this is what Paul meant by "commandments", since he explains it himself, if you were to disagree you would be saying Paul contradicts himself.

All I see is your words here, not scripture, I already provided scriptures to support my view that were spoken and written by God alone. You will have to take your argument with a much Higher Authority than I. When God defines something, it’s not up to us to redefine, or up to Paul. People should consider the warning about his writing because he never countermanded Christ. I trust Jesus when He quoted from the Ten and called then the commandment of God Mat 15:3-14 because they didn’t change Exo 20:6, He knows what He talking about since He is the Author of them and is our Maker. Faith, love and becoming a new creation work in harmony with keeping God’s commandments- which is what Paul is teaching, not chose one or the other. Without faith and love and becoming a new creation, one could not keep God’s commandments His version Exo 20:6 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mat 19:17-19 Rom 13:9, not what we are okay with keeping. We need God’s Truth Psa 119:151 His righteousness Psa 119:172 and not depend on our own and unfortunately thats where many people go wrong.

 

[DamianWarS]

We don’t have to separate them God did on His Authority


How many commandments did God say were in His covenant?

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

After God alone wrote the Ten Commandments- He added no more

Deut 5:22 22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

God made the distinction so if one disagrees, will have to take it up with Him.

this affirms that you do believe the 10 should be separated. this is simply a false doctrine that scripture does not support. if you want support for such a claim you are going to have to search for it outside the covenant it was created in (or have a much more explicit verse than what you posted). the tablets are called the two tablets of covenant law, they are placed within the ark of the covenant, and the sabbath is marked as the sign of the covenant. these are all covenant boundaries and it is an absurd notion to say every instance that "commandments" is used it only means the 10 commandments. not one scholar would agree with this.

 

[DamianWarS]

All I see is your words here, not scripture,

1 Cor 7:19
Gal 5:6
Gal 5:16

are those not all scripture?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

1 Cor 7:19
Gal 5:6
Gal 5:16

are those not all scripture?

The interpretation is your words, not what the scriptures reveal. I have yet to come across a verse that says faith is the commandments of God.

Faith establishes the law, not voids it Rom 3:31

There is nothing that says love is the commandments of God

Love is keeping the commandments of God 1 John 5:3

There is nothing that says being a new creation is the commandments of God

We are to die of sin (breaking God’s law 1John 3:4) and walk in newness of Christ Rom 6:1-3 which means we would be keeping His commandments John 14:15-18

If we allow scripture to interpret itself, it will not lead us down the wrong path, but when we try to insert our own ideas instead of obeying the commandments of God the way God said Exo 20:6, well Jesus warned us about doing so Mat 15:3-14 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 19:17-19

Pro 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall [a]direct your paths.

For the most part the Bible reads plainly. On areas that don’t read as plainly, scripture will interpret scripture. Lets all pray He directs our paths into all Truth.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

this affirms that you do believe the 10 should be separated. this is simply a false doctrine that scripture does not support. if you want support for such a claim you are going to have to search for it outside the covenant it was created in (or have a much more explicit verse than what you posted). the tablets are called the two tablets of covenant law, they are placed within the ark of the covenant, and the sabbath is marked as the sign of the covenant. these are all covenant boundaries and it is an absurd notion to say every instance that "commandments" is used it only means the 10 commandments. not one scholar would agree with this.

I did not write the scriptures, I just believe it the way it reads.

I never said every time it says commandment it only means the Ten but the context will tell us what it means if we allow, the commandments of God will always include the Ten because God defined these commandments as His Exo 20:6, if we can’t trust God at His Word, He defines things for us so there is not confusion, but thats where we go wrong, not allowing His Word to interpret itself, it really doesn’t need our help. Not having a good understanding of the Ten Commandments and the other laws and their purposes, will make NT difficult. The Ten Commandments- God separated from all other laws- hence the number Ten and not any other number and adding no more. Det 5:22

 

[Gregory Thompson]

which commandments is the hot topic. some like to use this verse to draw attention to the 10 commandments, and only the 10 commandments. I say who gave you authority to separate the 10 from the rest of law?

I tend to refer to what Paul said in Romans 13 on that, in that any commandment is summed up in the simple saying, love does not harm their neighbor, therefore love fulfills the law.

Regardless of how many or which commandments, the answer should remain the same.