Jeffrey Dahmer's Confession

[Athanasian Creed]

(This was also posted in the General "Creation/Evolution" forum)

I thought this might be of interest to some of you. A couple of nights ago on "Larry King Live" Jeffrey Dahmer's father and step-mother were on the show discussing what went wrong with their son. Several things were discussed, the one that really struck me was that his father said he had ordered 12 books from ICR (Institute for Creation Research) and had become a born-again Christian as a result. He had before believed that we were all a product of evolution and that there were no absolutes - no God to whom we are all accountable. As a result, he previously had felt no remorse for his murdering those 13 young men but after reading ICR's material and the Word of God, specifically where it said that God created all men in His image/likeness he repented of his sin and asked Christ to be his Saviour/Lord !!! His dad went on to say that he went on to handing out tracts and talking to other inmates about Christ before he was killed.

This just goes to prove how evolution can affect one's worldview/mindset (as it did with Hitler, Stalin, etc) and, as a result, reap such horrific acts within the lives of those that espouse the lie of Satan.

I know what some of you will say - that Dahmer equated evolution with atheism (see, i'm picking up what you are saying ) However, even if one believes that God is the First Cause - God said and the "Big Bang" was the result, still there are too many questions left unanswered - one that comes to mind is how can man then be made in God's image/likeness if he is a product of evolution ?? I guess you could counter with God using evolution to create man into whom He breathed the breath of life and man became "a living soul" therefore seperating him from all other animals as God's favoured "creation"

Bottom line, can you not agree with my premise that belief in evolution can, in some cases, affect a person's worldview/mindset to the point that they would be capable, such as Dahmer was, to commit horrific acts because of their belief in no absolutes and therefore, no God to Whom we are held accountable for all our actions ??

Your thoughts are welcome !


Ray


P.S. A portion of the above post was sent as an e-mail to ICR as an FYI although i'm sure they know of it but just in case.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

People who feel no remorse about evil things they do to others are called sociopaths, not evolutionists.

It is a personality disorder.

Indeed, I would suggest that anyone who only feels remorse because they believe there's a God who holds them accountable is quite possibly a sociopath still. People with normal personalities feel guilty whether they believe in God or not.

Blaming evolution for people like this makes as much sense as blaming Christianity for people like Torquemada.

It's great that he turned around from being this, but, really, it has naff all to do with evolution.

 

[Athanasian Creed]

People who feel no remorse about evil things they do to others are called sociopaths, not evolutionists.

It is a personality disorder.

Indeed, I would suggest that anyone who only feels remorse because they believe there's a God who holds them accountable is quite possibly a sociopath still. People with normal personalities feel guilty whether they believe in God or not.

Blaming evolution for people like this makes as much sense as blaming Christianity for people like Torquemada.

It's great that he turned around from being this, but, really, it has naff all to do with evolution.

You can't blame Christianity for people like Torquemada because no where in Christ's teachings does He say to kill one's enemies. Therefore, one who know what the Bible teaches can see that those who profess Christianity but do heinous acts contrary are NOT Christians. After all, Christian=Christlike, how can a murderer profess to be Christlike, he can't no matter how hard he tries or how many Scriptures he twists to support his cause.

However in Dahmer's case, his mindset/worldview was distorted by his belief in atheistic evolution which leaves God out of the picture altogether. If we are just a product of random chance and there is no God to Whom we are accountable to, does that not perhaps give licence for person's like Dahmer to do what he did and others like Hitler (don't say he was a Christian PLEASE because the actions don't equal the profession) or Stalin, etc. to do what they did ??

Just an honest question seeking honest replies.



Ray

 

[Dark_Lite]

Your point? There are plenty of people who believe in creationism who are crazy.

Btw, just because 1 nutcase accepts science does not mean all people who are atheists are nutcases.

Really, this is a bad argument.

 

[Chi_Cygni]

You can't blame Christianity for people like Torquemada because no where in Christ's teachings does He say to kill one's enemies. Therefore, one who know what the Bible teaches can see that those who profess Christianity but do heinous acts contrary are NOT Christians. After all, Christian=Christlike, how can a murderer profess to be Christlike, he can't no matter how hard he tries or how many Scriptures he twists to support his cause.

However in Dahmer's case, his mindset/worldview was distorted by his belief in atheistic evolution which leaves God out of the picture altogether. If we are just a product of random chance and there is no God to Whom we are accountable to, does that not perhaps give licence for person's like Dahmer to do what he did and others like Hitler (don't say he was a Christian PLEASE because the actions don't equal the profession) or Stalin, etc. to do what they did ??

Just an honest question seeking honest replies.



Ray

Sheer idiocy.

Nowhere in a treatise on evolution does it say what you are implying!

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Torquemada is more of a good comparison than you know.

His logic was as follows:

1) Outside the Catholic faith there is no salvation
2) Heresy puts Catholic faith in Spain in jeopardy

Therefore:

3) It is justifiable to use whatever means necessary to destroy heresy and save souls. A few even thousand people dying bodily is better than a whole nation losing the Catholic faith and going to Hell for eternity.

In other words, although what he did was not taught directly by Christianity, it was the product of a deranged and sociopathic mind working from Christianity did teach.

Which, interestingly, is exactly what you say Dahmer was doing.

 

[seebs]

People like Dahmer often have very vivid "conversions" if they think it will reduce the punishment they face. There is no evidence that they mean anything by it.

However, Dahmer's been dead for a long time, and I never heard anything about this before; sounds like someone decided to make up a story and picked likely characters.

 

[mhess13]

[noflame]


Saying that Catholics are NOT christian is against rule 1

 

[Athanasian Creed]

[noflame]

You boys want to take this to formal debate, or shall I add trolling to your warning list?


Catholics are christian by the rules of this site, and ALL of the teachings are biblicly defensable.

 

[Něco hrubého oprýskaného 1]

This just goes to prove how evolution can affect one's worldview/mindset (as it did with Hitler, Stalin, etc) and, as a result, reap such horrific acts within the lives of those that espouse the lie of Satan.



I know what some of you will say - that Dahmer equated evolution with atheism (see, i'm picking up what you are saying )

Here's some research for you:



Harvey Carignan
The Want-ad Killer

Killed (under orders from God) at least 5, and as many as 18.

Described himself as: "An instrument of God, one who was acting under His personal instructions. Murder, rape and mutilation are all part of a Grand Plan. God is a figure with a large hood and you can't see his face."

I guess Christianity and "Evolutionism" have the same effect on people. It's obvious, like so many fallacies.

Do we really need to invoke the personalities of Hitler and Stalin for this topic? The two best friends of the historically ignorant. Have a lot of W. Shirer or Solzhenitsyn under your belt?

You're saying (based on your "OP") that an individual's worldview is the only thing that determines their actions. All attempts at backpedalling will be obvious.

 

[calicoangel]

People with normal personalities feel guilty whether they believe in God or not.

Not all the time. Conviction (guilty feelings) is wrought by the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer. The Holy Spirit may not always convict a non-believer. Non-believers may feel justified when they murder, steal, lie, etc., whereas a Christian (who is living in close communion with the Spirit) would feel the guilt immediately. Think about it. Not many people in today's society feel guilty about premarital sex, gay relationships, lies, theft, greed...the list goes on and on.

 

[Chi_Cygni]

His sociopathic mind was not not working out of christian teachings - BUT OUT OF CATHOLIC TEACHINGS.
Catholicism is NOT biblical Christianity.

disclaimer--I know I will be reported for this post. In advance I will tell the MOD that I will not edit this post. Someone must stand for truth

And neither is modern American fundamentalism!

 

[Ron21647]

(This was also posted in the General "Creation/Evolution" forum)

I thought this might be of interest to some of you. A couple of nights ago on "Larry King Live" Jeffrey Dahmer's father and step-mother were on the show discussing what went wrong with their son. Several things were discussed, the one that really struck me was that his father said he had ordered 12 books from ICR (Institute for Creation Research) and had become a born-again Christian as a result. He had before believed that we were all a product of evolution and that there were no absolutes - no God to whom we are all accountable. As a result, he previously had felt no remorse for his murdering those 13 young men but after reading ICR's material and the Word of God, specifically where it said that God created all men in His image/likeness he repented of his sin and asked Christ to be his Saviour/Lord !!! His dad went on to say that he went on to handing out tracts and talking to other inmates about Christ before he was killed.

This just goes to prove how evolution can affect one's worldview/mindset (as it did with Hitler, Stalin, etc) and, as a result, reap such horrific acts within the lives of those that espouse the lie of Satan.

I know what some of you will say - that Dahmer equated evolution with atheism (see, i'm picking up what you are saying ) However, even if one believes that God is the First Cause - God said and the "Big Bang" was the result, still there are too many questions left unanswered - one that comes to mind is how can man then be made in God's image/likeness if he is a product of evolution ?? I guess you could counter with God using evolution to create man into whom He breathed the breath of life and man became "a living soul" therefore seperating him from all other animals as God's favoured "creation"

Bottom line, can you not agree with my premise that belief in evolution can, in some cases, affect a person's worldview/mindset to the point that they would be capable, such as Dahmer was, to commit horrific acts because of their belief in no absolutes and therefore, no God to Whom we are held accountable for all our actions ??

Your thoughts are welcome !


Ray


P.S. A portion of the above post was sent as an e-mail to ICR as an FYI although i'm sure they know of it but just in case.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0406/17/lkl.00.html

I just read this, and although the father does mention about ICR and Jeffrey not believing in God and therefore not accountable to anyone or anything, they say elsewhere that he was raised in a Christian home. I'm not sure that someone raised in a Christian home would feel God did not exist and use that as a justification for the things he did.

It also says that as a teenager he had a sexual fixation with dead animals, and that may be why he did what he did as an adult.

I personally think that the whole premise is made up by someone who thinks evolution equals atheism. Of course, one could argue that the claim of "evolution = atheism" is what made him do it, and it is the father's fault for making him think that way.

Ron

 

[Athanasian Creed]

{snip}
You're saying (based on your "OP") that an individual's worldview is the only thing that determines their actions. All attempts at backpedalling will be obvious.

Read it again, my OP asked :

Bottom line, can you not agree with my premise that belief in evolution can, in some cases, affect a person's worldview/mindset to the point that they would be capable, such as Dahmer was, to commit horrific acts because of their belief in no absolutes and therefore, no God to Whom we are held accountable for all our actions ??


I probably should have prefaced it to say "atheistic" evolution as i understand some professto be "theistic evolutionists" and therefore obviously believe God was the First Cause of the evolutionary process - God said it and the "Big Bang" occurred.

My question still stands and i do believe that IF one believes in no God and as a result believes in evolution without any deities involvement then one can then develop a mindset that because they believe they have no one to answer to, no absolutes to guide them, they can act, such as Dahmer did, without feeling remorse/guilt as a byproduct of accepting atheistic evolution AND if caught will still not admit to being evil but to being "insane" therefore only believing themselves to be sick (as Dahmer did till he became a Christian, at which time he not only confessed to being sick but being evil as well) !


Ray

 

[Ron21647]

Read it again, my OP asked :

Bottom line, can you not agree with my premise that belief in evolution can, in some cases, affect a person's worldview/mindset to the point that they would be capable, such as Dahmer was, to commit horrific acts because of their belief in no absolutes and therefore, no God to Whom we are held accountable for all our actions ??


I probably should have prefaced it to say "atheistic" evolution as i understand some professto be "theistic evolutionists" and therefore obviously believe God was the First Cause of the evolutionary process - God said it and the "Big Bang" occurred.

My question still stands and i do believe that IF one believes in no God and as a result believes in evolution without any deities involvement then one can then develop a mindset that because they believe they have no one to answer to, no absolutes to guide them, they can act, such as Dahmer did, without feeling remorse/guilt as a byproduct of accepting atheistic evolution AND if caught will still not admit to being evil but to being "insane" therefore only believing themselves to be sick (as Dahmer did till he became a Christian, at which time he not only confessed to being sick but being evil as well) !


Ray

No,

I would say that in no case would an acceptance of evolution change a person's worldview to the point that they would not know right from wrong. And neither would atheism. I know plenty of atheists who are very moral people.

Evolution simply is not about what you are trying to say. It is not a worldview. It is simply an explanation (and the most logical one) for the diversity of life today.

Ron

 

[Athanasian Creed]

No,

I would say that in no case would an acceptance of evolution change a person's worldview to the point that they would not know right from wrong. And neither would atheism. I know plenty of atheists who are very moral people.

Evolution simply is not about what you are trying to say. It is not a worldview. It is simply an explanation (and the most logical one) for the diversity of life today.

Ron

The mindset/worldview comes as a result of believing in atheistic evolution AND as a result of believing in evolution believing there is no purpose outside of this life and fulfilling whatever needs/wants an individual may desire (however warped they may be, as in Dahmer's case) A person's mindset would be such that because there is no God, no absolutes, no final judgement where an individual would have to give an account for his life, then he can act with impunity.

Before Dahmer became a Christian, he only seen himself as sick, hence his plea of "insanity" It was only after he came to the realization that there was a God who created man in His own image/likeness, that we are not a product of random chance and that he, Dahmer, would have to give account of his heinous crimes did he not only call himself sick but evil as well. It was only then that he was able to see himself as he really was, a sinner in need of forgiveness by a God who not only "created the heavens and the earth" but man as well.

I hope that's somewhat clearer.


Ray

 

[Chi_Cygni]

This whole topic is BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[notto]

The mindset/worldview comes as a result of believing in atheistic evolution AND as a result of believing in evolution believing there is no purpose outside of this life and fulfilling whatever needs/wants an individual may desire (however warped they may be, as in Dahmer's case)

It comes from being a sociopath. You are using an example of one to make a case.

As has been pointed out, many who are Christian or come from other faiths who certainly belief that there is purpose outside of life have done grotesque acts because they are NUTS.

Please, this level of argument is absurd.

Is the only reason that you don't kill people and eat them because of your faith in God and Christ? Please answer honestly.

 

[Ron21647]

The mindset/worldview comes as a result of believing in atheistic evolution AND as a result of believing in evolution believing there is no purpose outside of this life and fulfilling whatever needs/wants an individual may desire (however warped they may be, as in Dahmer's case) A person's mindset would be such that because there is no God, no absolutes, no final judgement where an individual would have to give an account for his life, then he can act with impunity.

Before Dahmer became a Christian, he only seen himself as sick, hence his plea of "insanity" It was only after he came to the realization that there was a God who created man in His own image/likeness, that we are not a product of random chance and that he, Dahmer, would have to give account of his heinous crimes did he not only call himself sick but evil as well. It was only then that he was able to see himself as he really was, a sinner in need of forgiveness by a God who not only "created the heavens and the earth" but man as well.

I hope that's somewhat clearer.


Ray

Did you watch the entire show or at least read the transcript I posted the link to? He used to pick up road kill, dissect it, and have sex with the pieces! This was at the age of 12 to 14. How could you possibly believe that evolution or even atheism could be responsible for this?

He was sick! He should have been found criminally insane. I do not consider what he did sin. To sin, you have to know right from wrong. Adam and Eve did not sin, or know right from wrong, till they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Why do you think God named it that? He was sick, pure and simple, and should have been hospitalized.

added on edit: evolution is not the result of mindless chance. It is directed by the environment, due to natural selection. You need to read up on what evolution really is (and not the mumbo jumbo from a creatioist website). Go up to the "all members evolution forum". They can explain it (although there are some here who can also).

Ron

 

[Dark_Lite]

His sociopathic mind was not not working out of christian teachings - BUT OUT OF CATHOLIC TEACHINGS.
Catholicism is NOT biblical Christianity.

disclaimer--I know I will be reported for this post. In advance I will tell the MOD that I will not edit this post. Someone must stand for truth

Your truth that Catholicism is a cult? Please. I've seen posts by you on other forums where your.... modes of expression aren't as limited as they are here.

Catholicism is not a cult.