Strange Plane

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Jasher - Cain and Abel
___

Jasher 1:13-21,23-33
[13]And she called the name of the first born Cain, saying, I have obtained a man from the Lord, and the name of the other she called Abel, for she said, In vanity we came into the earth, and in vanity we shall be taken from it.

[14]And the boys grew up and their father gave them a possession in the land; and Cain was a tiller of the ground, and Abel a keeper of sheep.

[15]And it was at the expiration of a few years, that they brought an approximating offering to the Lord, and Cain brought from the fruit of the ground, and Abel brought from the firstlings of his flock from the fat thereof, and God turned and inclined to Abel and his offering, and a fire came down from the Lord from heaven and consumed it.

[16]And unto Cain and his offering the Lord did not turn, and he did not incline to it, for he had brought from the inferior fruit of the ground before the Lord, and Cain was jealous against his brother Abel on account of this, and he sought a pretext to slay him.

[17]And in some time after, Cain and Abel his brother, went one day into the field to do their work; and they were both in the field, Cain tilling and ploughing his ground, and Abel feeding his flock; and the flock passed that part which Cain had ploughed in the ground, and it sorely grieved Cain on this account.

[18]And Cain approached his brother Abel in anger, and he said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou comest to dwell and bring thy flock to feed in my land?

[19]And Abel answered his brother Cain and said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou shalt eat the flesh of my flock and clothe thyself with their wool?

[20]And now therefore, put off the wool of my sheep with which thou hast clothed thyself, and recompense me for their fruit and flesh which thou hast eaten, and when thou shalt have done this, I will then go from thy land as thou hast said?

[21]And Cain said to his brother Abel, Surely if I slay thee this day, who will require thy blood from me?

[23]And now, if thou shouldst slay me here, surely God knoweth thy secret views, and will judge thee for the evil which thou didst declare to do unto me this day.

[24]And when Cain heard the words which Abel his brother had spoken, behold the anger of Cain was kindled against his brother Abel for declaring this thing.

[25]And Cain hastened and rose up, and took the iron part of his ploughing instrument, with which he suddenly smote his brother and he slew him, and Cain spilt the blood of his brother Abel upon the earth, and the blood of Abel streamed upon the earth before the flock.

[26]And after this Cain repented having slain his brother, and he was sadly grieved, and he wept over him and it vexed him exceedingly.

[27]And Cain rose up and dug a hole in the field, wherein he put his brother's body, and he turned the dust over it.
[28]And the Lord knew what Cain had done to his brother, and the Lord appeared to Cain and said unto him, Where is Abel thy brother that was with thee?

[29]And Cain dissembled, and said, I do not know, am I my brother's keeper? And the Lord said unto him, What hast thou done? The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground where thou hast slain him.

[30]For thou hast slain thy brother and hast dissembled before me, and didst imagine in thy heart that I saw thee not, nor knew all thy actions.

[31]But thou didst this thing and didst slay thy brother for naught and because he spoke rightly to thee, and now, therefore, cursed be thou from the ground which opened its mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand, and wherein thou didst bury him.

[32]And it shall be when thou shalt till it, it shall no more give thee its strength as in the beginning, for thorns and thistles shall the ground produce, and thou shalt be moving and wandering in the earth until the day of thy death.

[33]And at that time Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, from the place where he was, and he went moving and wandering in the land toward the east of Eden, he and all belonging to him.

___

Consider first that these passages may be fictitious or terrible forgeries of the authentic scripture, and read again with complete discernment, vested in the armour of God.

Here, Cain is said to have eaten of the flesh of Abel's flock of sheep, yet in scripture, the meat of animals was not yet given to man, that he should consume it. Either man was permitted to kill animals and eat their flesh or Cain sinned and ate of animal flesh, specifically sheep, prior to being permitted to; permission was given after the flood.

From Jasher 18, it's made clear that Cain is angry with Abel because he brings his flock of sheep to graze on his land; Cain is a tiller of the soil.

In the next verse, Abel is angry with Cain because he is eating the flesh of his flock and taking of their wool to clothe himself.

Abel demands that Cain give back what he has taken and provide recompense for what can't be returned, since it was eaten.

Both brothers are angry with one another and rather than work things out, Cain murdered his brother, dug a grave, and buried him. Cain also lied to God, stating that he knew not where his brother was.

If this writing is authentic, even if just in this place, it better explains why Cain murdered his brother and why he was cursed. It also provides a lesson, which may be valuable to think on.
 

Strange Plane

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A it is not in the bible it is not authentic so why are you reading it?
_
Joshua 10:13 KJVS
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
_
2 Samuel 1:18 KJVS
(Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)
_

That is why.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Jasher - Cain and Abel
___

Jasher 1:13-21,23-33
[13]And she called the name of the first born Cain, saying, I have obtained a man from the Lord, and the name of the other she called Abel, for she said, In vanity we came into the earth, and in vanity we shall be taken from it.

[14]And the boys grew up and their father gave them a possession in the land; and Cain was a tiller of the ground, and Abel a keeper of sheep.

[15]And it was at the expiration of a few years, that they brought an approximating offering to the Lord, and Cain brought from the fruit of the ground, and Abel brought from the firstlings of his flock from the fat thereof, and God turned and inclined to Abel and his offering, and a fire came down from the Lord from heaven and consumed it.

[16]And unto Cain and his offering the Lord did not turn, and he did not incline to it, for he had brought from the inferior fruit of the ground before the Lord, and Cain was jealous against his brother Abel on account of this, and he sought a pretext to slay him.

[17]And in some time after, Cain and Abel his brother, went one day into the field to do their work; and they were both in the field, Cain tilling and ploughing his ground, and Abel feeding his flock; and the flock passed that part which Cain had ploughed in the ground, and it sorely grieved Cain on this account.

[18]And Cain approached his brother Abel in anger, and he said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou comest to dwell and bring thy flock to feed in my land?

[19]And Abel answered his brother Cain and said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou shalt eat the flesh of my flock and clothe thyself with their wool?

[20]And now therefore, put off the wool of my sheep with which thou hast clothed thyself, and recompense me for their fruit and flesh which thou hast eaten, and when thou shalt have done this, I will then go from thy land as thou hast said?

[21]And Cain said to his brother Abel, Surely if I slay thee this day, who will require thy blood from me?

[23]And now, if thou shouldst slay me here, surely God knoweth thy secret views, and will judge thee for the evil which thou didst declare to do unto me this day.

[24]And when Cain heard the words which Abel his brother had spoken, behold the anger of Cain was kindled against his brother Abel for declaring this thing.

[25]And Cain hastened and rose up, and took the iron part of his ploughing instrument, with which he suddenly smote his brother and he slew him, and Cain spilt the blood of his brother Abel upon the earth, and the blood of Abel streamed upon the earth before the flock.

[26]And after this Cain repented having slain his brother, and he was sadly grieved, and he wept over him and it vexed him exceedingly.

[27]And Cain rose up and dug a hole in the field, wherein he put his brother's body, and he turned the dust over it.
[28]And the Lord knew what Cain had done to his brother, and the Lord appeared to Cain and said unto him, Where is Abel thy brother that was with thee?

[29]And Cain dissembled, and said, I do not know, am I my brother's keeper? And the Lord said unto him, What hast thou done? The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground where thou hast slain him.

[30]For thou hast slain thy brother and hast dissembled before me, and didst imagine in thy heart that I saw thee not, nor knew all thy actions.

[31]But thou didst this thing and didst slay thy brother for naught and because he spoke rightly to thee, and now, therefore, cursed be thou from the ground which opened its mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand, and wherein thou didst bury him.

[32]And it shall be when thou shalt till it, it shall no more give thee its strength as in the beginning, for thorns and thistles shall the ground produce, and thou shalt be moving and wandering in the earth until the day of thy death.

[33]And at that time Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, from the place where he was, and he went moving and wandering in the land toward the east of Eden, he and all belonging to him.

___

Consider first that these passages may be fictitious or terrible forgeries of the authentic scripture, and read again with complete discernment, vested in the armour of God.

Here, Cain is said to have eaten of the flesh of Abel's flock of sheep, yet in scripture, the meat of animals was not yet given to man, that he should consume it. Either man was permitted to kill animals and eat their flesh or Cain sinned and ate of animal flesh, specifically sheep, prior to being permitted to; permission was given after the flood.

From Jasher 18, it's made clear that Cain is angry with Abel because he brings his flock of sheep to graze on his land; Cain is a tiller of the soil.

In the next verse, Abel is angry with Cain because he is eating the flesh of his flock and taking of their wool to clothe himself.

Abel demands that Cain give back what he has taken and provide recompense for what can't be returned, since it was eaten.

Both brothers are angry with one another and rather than work things out, Cain murdered his brother, dug a grave, and buried him. Cain also lied to God, stating that he knew not where his brother was.

If this writing is authentic, even if just in this place, it better explains why Cain murdered his brother and why he was cursed. It also provides a lesson, which may be valuable to think on.

One thing that makes this of a late date and not inspired is because Abel said,

[19]And Abel answered his brother Cain and said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou shalt eat the flesh of my flock"

God had not commanded the eating of meat by either man nor animal until after the flood when He said to Noah, "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs." Genesis 9:3 Up to that point man and animals only ate green herbs, nuts, fruit and vegetables - whatever grows from the ground.
 
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Strange Plane

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One thing that makes this of a late date and not inspired is because Abel said,

[19]And Abel answered his brother Cain and said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou shalt eat the flesh of my flock"

God had not commanded the eating of meat by either man nor animal until after the flood when He said to Noah, "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs." Genesis 9:3

I mentioned this in my original post...

"Here, Cain is said to have eaten of the flesh of Abel's flock of sheep, yet in scripture, the meat of animals was not yet given to man, that he should consume it. Either man was permitted to kill animals and eat their flesh or Cain sinned and ate of animal flesh, specifically sheep, prior to being permitted to; permission was given after the flood."
 
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Tolworth John

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_
Joshua 10:13 KJVS
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
_
2 Samuel 1:18 KJVS
(Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)
_

That is why.
Evidence, that the acknowledged later than the gospels book of jasher is the book mentioned in Samuel, please.
 
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Strange Plane

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Evidence, that the acknowledged later than the gospels book of jasher is the book mentioned in Samuel, please.

If this book is not authentic, and I've not finished reading it to yet discern that for myself, where is the authentic Book of Jasher?
 
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Tolworth John

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  • Agree
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1stcenturylady

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If this book is not authentic, and I've not finished reading it to yet discern that for myself, where is the authentic Book of Jasher?

There are many books mentioned in the Bible. God preserves His actual Word. We would have it, if it was inspired. But more importantly, it wouldn't contradict actual scripture.
 
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Strange Plane

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After all I've gone through in recent months, trusting "experts" isn't something I'm inclined to do. I will discern for myself if this book is a forgery, which it may be; it will become evident.

Already, I question the passage about Cain eating flesh, though since there are mixed ideas on this, I'm reluctant to put the book down for it.

To my knowledge, prior to the flood, some men seemed to consume flesh, though it was perhaps a sin that they did. The question I wonder on is whether that flesh was raw with the blood still in it or not.
 
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Strange Plane

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There are many books mentioned in the Bible. God preserves His actual Word. We would have it, if it was inspired.

We do have it. These books exist and can be read. Did you know that The Book of Enoch is still in some Bibles? Yet, many claim this work isn't scripture. While I'm not sure if it is or isn't myself, I'm not ignoring it, simply because... "experts".
 
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1stcenturylady

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We do have it. These books exist and can be read. Did you know that The Book of Enoch is still in some Bibles? Yet, many claim this work isn't scripture. While I'm not sure if it is or isn't myself, I'm not ignoring it, simply because... "experts".

I'm not ignoring the Book of Enoch either, but that is because we have the same book of that title (no. 1) that Jude spoke of. That cannot be said of the Book of Jasher. I believe the one written about in scripture would not have this blunder regarding eating meat. Do you know when it was discovered or any background? I've been interested in getting it in the past to see what's in it.
 
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Strange Plane

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I'm not ignoring the Book of Enoch either, but that is because we have the same book of that title (no. 1) that Jude spoke of. That cannot be said of the Book of Jasher. I believe the one written about in scripture would not have this blunder regarding eating meat. Do you know when it was discovered or any background? I've been interested in getting it in the past to see what's in it.

It's troubling to be sure. However, could it be possible Cain did eat flesh? Whether raw (with blood in it) or otherwise (without blood in it) ?
 
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Radagast

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Is not this written in the book of Jasher?

The real book of Jasher is lost. What you're selling is a fake, which was written in the 1600s, 1700s, or 1800s (depending on which fake you have). Shame on you.
 
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Tolworth John

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After all I've gone through in recent months, trusting "experts" isn't something I'm inclined to do. I will discern for myself if this book is a forgery, which it may be; it will become evident.

Already, I question the passage about Cain eating flesh, though since there are mixed ideas on this, I'm reluctant to put the book down for it.

To my knowledge, prior to the flood, some men seemed to consume flesh, though it was perhaps a sin that they did. The question I wonder on is whether that flesh was raw with the blood still in it or not.

Then listen to what the Spirit of God tells you.

Basicly you will be told to read the bible.
 
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1stcenturylady

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It's troubling to be sure. However, could it be possible Cain did eat flesh? Whether raw (with blood in it) or otherwise (without blood in it) ?

I doubt it. He would eat what he grew.
 
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DeeR.

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A it is not in the bible it is not authentic so why are you reading it?
The issue is not that it is not in the Bible so why are you reading it... We are not readers of the bible alone whether we read a math book a book by another christian or a book from another source. The Spirit is with us, as is The Living Word and the Scriptures. An issue God addresses in the beginning with Cain & Abel is an acceptable sacrifice or one we have chosen. If God did not allow meat to be eaten at that time and he really did eat it, it was a sin. What is shown in Cane and Able is a disobedient person and an obedient pleasing one. Whether Cain had yet another disobedient act or not is irrelevant. He was disobedient and filled with self jealousy and hate. Able, however, was not.
 
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