Jan Marcussen?

[Cliff2]

As far as I know, the church has not issued an official statement of belief that defines this one way or the other. It tends to be controversial in some Adventist circles. People on both sides use the Bible and/or EGW to defend their positions. I did find a couple of documents on the Biblical Research Institute site--one that supports a fallen nature of Christ and the other an unfallen nature:
http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch...ristfallen.pdf
http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch...stunfallen.pdf

Thanks for that info, I will have a look at it.

 

[ttreg]

Who is Pastor Jan Marcussen and what is so wrong with him?

 

[Dathen]

Jan, male or female???

 

[Sophia7]

Jan, male or female???

In this case, male.

 

[Cliff2]

Who is Pastor Jan Marcussen and what is so wrong with him?

I do not know how many years ago that he wrote a book called "National Sunday Law"

I have read it and if I recall crorrectly he uses quotes from EGW to make a comact small book that tells us about the National Sunday Law.

If there is a problem with it and I say "If". It comes about due to the fact he has stripped away the meat and left us with the bare bones.

Quote after quote does give the impression that things are actually much worse than they are.

It is a good reference book and very useful in your own study of end time events.

 

[ttreg]

Why was he disfellowshiped? And it seems there would be other things "wrong" with him by reading the past posts.

 

[Sophia7]

Why was he disfellowshiped? And it seems there would be other things "wrong" with him by reading the past posts.

He has very extreme views, which lead him to, among other things, accuse Adventist leadership of being infiltrated by Jesuits. He's a historic Adventist conspiracy theorist. However, I can't find any official documentation stating whether he ever actually was a minister in the Adventist Church and had his ministerial credentials revoked. I also can't find any concrete evidence to prove that he was disfellowshiped. There are rumors on message boards all over the Internet, but it's sometimes hard to know how much to believe.

What is clear is that he uses the title "pastor" for himself although he is not authorized to do so. He is definitely not currently a credentialed Adventist pastor, according to the Illinois Conference, where he lives. He has his own independent ministry, which is not supported by the official Adventist Church.

 

[OntheDL]

He has very extreme views, which lead him to, among other things, accuse Adventist leadership of being infiltrated by Jesuits. He's a historic Adventist conspiracy theorist. However, I can't find any official documentation stating whether he ever actually was a minister in the Adventist Church and had his ministerial credentials revoked. I also can't find any concrete evidence to prove that he was disfellowshiped. There are rumors on message boards all over the Internet, but it's sometimes hard to know what to believe, especially when the majority of it comes from former Adventists.</p>

What is clear is that he uses the title &quot;pastor&quot; for himself although he is not authorized to do so. He is definitely not currently a credentialed Adventist pastor, according to the Illinois Conference, where he lives. He has his own independent ministry, which is not supported by the official Adventist Church.

Was Noah extreme to those who later perished in the flood?Sophia, do you need me to quote for you from Great Controversy about what the Jesuits are doing? Would you like to see some actual writings from the Jesuits themselves to see what they say that they are doing?As far as I know, an ordained minister is for life. It seems like you are implying that he's lying about being a minister. I don't know if he did any wrong in the past. Only thing I can see is that alot (thousands) of people came to honor the sabbath and came to the SDA church because of his teaching. The only thing I can see people consider him extreme is that he doesn't always quote the sources of the statements he makes. Then it's your burden to find out if that's true if I tell you you have a bomb in your house.

 

[Sophia7]

Was Noah extreme to those who later perished in the flood?Sophia, do you need me to quote for you from Great Controversy about what the Jesuits are doing? Would you like to see some actual writings from the Jesuits themselves to see what they say that they are doing?As far as I know, an ordained minister is for life. It seems like you are implying that he's lying about being a minister. I don't know if he did any wrong in the past. Only thing I can see is that alot (thousands) of people came to honor the sabbath and came to the SDA church because of his teaching. The only thing I can see people consider him extreme is that he doesn't always quote the sources of the statements he makes. Then it's your burden to find out if that's true if I tell you you have a bomb in your house.

In the Adventist Church, an ordained minister is not a minister for life if he has his credentials revoked. All I was saying was that according to the Adventist Church, Marcussen is not an Adventist minister. He can call himself whatever he wants, but non-Adventists who read his book or his newsletter usually assume that he is an Adventist pastor when he uses that title. In my opinion, that is misleading.

 

[OntheDL]

In the Adventist Church, an ordained minister is not a minister for life if he has his credentials revoked. All I was saying was that according to the Adventist Church, Marcussen is not an Adventist minister. He can call himself whatever he wants, but non-Adventists who read his book or his newsletter usually assume that he is an Adventist pastor when he uses that title. In my opinion, that is misleading.

The only thing I'm interested is the fruit. I can not speculate what I have no proof one way or another. But for me, he's more of an Adventist than I would consider most.

 

[Jimlarmore]

I read his book and it does invoke almost a panic like mind set. It seems the whole of our church follows basically what he is saying. We do expect national sunday laws to be passed one day which will usher in the mark of the beast as we understand it. I think the problem has been his extremism over the years. What I have found in extremism over the years is confusing to me. What I mean by that is you can always find an extreme view of something everywhere you go. From those who would over throw our Government in a subverted way ( tri-lateral commission ) or those who would infiltrate our denomination and pervert our resolve, ( Jesuits etc.). It's hard to know just how much of this to really take seriously. All,,,,none,,,,,or a little?????? By what the spirit of prophecy says Noah was certainly considered an extremist for his time, yet he was speaking the truth of God. Atheists consider those of us who believe that Christ will make a dramatic appearing one day as extremist. So in a way when we call guys like Marcussen an extremist it's like the pot calling the kettle black. What should we do in these cases?

I think the bottom line is for all Christians is to ask what it is that the Lord is telling us. If we can't find it in His word then we should pray and seek that still small voice. We should ask ourselves ,,, Do we pray over this stuff when we receive this type of information or do we rely on opinion and prejudice to influence our thoughts? Are we looking at all the evidence and information with a truely objective mind? Do we even have all the evidence? These are all questions to ask and ponder.

I do believe this. Brother Marcussen has written what he honestly believes to be the truth in the Sunday Law book. If he has scared a few folks away then maybe they are working with pre-judged cultural bias' and wouldn't be receptive to any truth no matter how well it was put along these lines. The Bible says the truth of God is sharper than any two edged sword. That sounds pretty extreme to me.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[OntheDL]

I read his book and it does invoke almost a panic like mind set. It seems the whole of our church follows basically what he is saying. We do expect national sunday laws to be passed one day which will usher in the mark of the beast as we understand it. I think the problem has been his extremism over the years. What I have found in extremism over the years is confusing to me. What I mean by that is you can always find an extreme view of something everywhere you go. From those who would over throw our Government in a subverted way ( tri-lateral commission ) or those who would infiltrate our denomination and pervert our resolve, ( Jesuits etc.). It's hard to know just how much of this to really take seriously. All,,,,none,,,,,or a little?????? By what the spirit of prophecy says Noah was certainly considered an extremist for his time, yet he was speaking the truth of God. Atheists consider those of us who believe that Christ will make a dramatic appearing one day as extremist. So in a way when we call guys like Marcussen an extremist it's like the pot calling the kettle black. What should we do in these cases?

I think the bottom line is for all Christians is to ask what it is that the Lord is telling us. If we can't find it in His word then we should pray and seek that still small voice. We should ask ourselves ,,, Do we pray over this stuff when we receive this type of information or do we rely on opinion and prejudice to influence our thoughts? Are we looking at all the evidence and information with a truely objective mind? Do we even have all the evidence? These are all questions to ask and ponder.

I do believe this. Brother Marcussen has written what he honestly believes to be the truth in the Sunday Law book. If he has scared a few folks away then maybe they are working with pre-judged cultural bias' and wouldn't be receptive to any truth no matter how well it was put along these lines. The Bible says the truth of God is sharper than any two edged sword. That sounds pretty extreme to me.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Thank you for your post, Jim. Well put. Just a short follow-up to what you brought up...

Here's the Pascal's wager...

If Jan Marcussen is wrong on conspiracies...and you listened, you have nothing to lose: all it tells you is to be ready today.

If Jan Marcussen is right...and you didn't listen, you are deceived and are in for rude awakening when the end time events unfolds.

Bible talks about the enemies of God conspire against Him and His people. SOP talks about it. And many reputable scholars wrote about. Even Abraham Lincoln knew the Jesuits supported the South during the civil war.

Psalm 31
13 I have heard the many rumors about me, and I am surrounded by terror. My enemies conspire against me, plotting to take my life.
14 But I am trusting you, O Lord, saying, &#8220;You are my God!&#8221;
15 My future is in your hands. Rescue me from those who hunt me down relentlessly.

Psalm 83
3 They devise crafty schemes against your people; they conspire against your precious ones.
4 &#8220;Come,&#8221; they say, &#8220;let us wipe out Israel as a nation. We will destroy the very memory of its existence.&#8221;
5 Yes, this was their unanimous decision. They signed a treaty as allies against you.

 

[Cliff2]

I read his book and it does invoke almost a panic like mind set. It seems the whole of our church follows basically what he is saying. We do expect national sunday laws to be passed one day which will usher in the mark of the beast as we understand it. I think the problem has been his extremism over the years. What I have found in extremism over the years is confusing to me. What I mean by that is you can always find an extreme view of something everywhere you go. From those who would over throw our Government in a subverted way ( tri-lateral commission ) or those who would infiltrate our denomination and pervert our resolve, ( Jesuits etc.). It's hard to know just how much of this to really take seriously. All,,,,none,,,,,or a little?????? By what the spirit of prophecy says Noah was certainly considered an extremist for his time, yet he was speaking the truth of God. Atheists consider those of us who believe that Christ will make a dramatic appearing one day as extremist. So in a way when we call guys like Marcussen an extremist it's like the pot calling the kettle black. What should we do in these cases?

I think the bottom line is for all Christians is to ask what it is that the Lord is telling us. If we can't find it in His word then we should pray and seek that still small voice. We should ask ourselves ,,, Do we pray over this stuff when we receive this type of information or do we rely on opinion and prejudice to influence our thoughts? Are we looking at all the evidence and information with a truely objective mind? Do we even have all the evidence? These are all questions to ask and ponder.

I do believe this. Brother Marcussen has written what he honestly believes to be the truth in the Sunday Law book. If he has scared a few folks away then maybe they are working with pre-judged cultural bias' and wouldn't be receptive to any truth no matter how well it was put along these lines. The Bible says the truth of God is sharper than any two edged sword. That sounds pretty extreme to me.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

I believe what he has wrote is correct as if I reacll correctly he has used quotes from SOP.

Where he has fallen down is that he has taken the quote to be stand alone statements.

Without any thing to qualify what has been written by EGW.

So here we have all these good quotes without any padding to say what they mean.

It can give the impression that it is much worse than it is.

 

[Jimlarmore]

Is there anyone on this board who is actually familiar with this man? I'm just curious as to what kind of man someone who actually knew him thought he was. It seems someone said he belonged to the 3ABN church at one time. That would make him familiar to a fairly large congregation I think.

 

[Sophia7]

Is there anyone on this board who is actually familiar with this man? I'm just curious as to what kind of man someone who actually knew him thought he was. It seems someone said he belonged to the 3ABN church at one time. That would make him familiar to a fairly large congregation I think.

Yes, I would think so. I don't know him personally; I only know about him by the stuff that he writes. There are some other forums that I've seen in which people who do know him from the 3ABN church were discussing his having been disfellowshipped.

 

[Dathen]

I'd never heard of him!!!

 

[OntheDL]

Considering the fact that GC had made a pact with Catholic Church to abandon its aggressive teaching on the beast and antichrist to exchange for mainstream recognition and to pave way for SDA church to 'come home', any SDA preacher that preached against the beast and antichrist truthfully has gotten into trouble one way or another.

 

[Dathen]

I think it's Luther that said the Gospel cannot be preached without offending people!!!

 

[Jimlarmore]

Considering the fact that GC had made a pact with Catholic Church to abandon its aggressive teaching on the beast and antichrist to exchange for mainstream recognition and to pave way for SDA church to 'come home', any SDA preacher that preached against the beast and antichrist truthfully has gotten into trouble one way or another.

I don't want to open up a controversial dialogue here but this is a pretty extreme statement all on it's own. If you have concrete evidence that this has happened can you point me in the direction where I can look it over?

From my perspective the SDA church is nearly totally alone now in the world in identifying the beast power as Rome and it's papal seat as a system that promotes antichrist.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[OntheDL]

I don't want to open up a controversial dialogue here but this is a pretty extreme statement all on it's own. If you have concrete evidence that this has happened can you point me in the direction where I can look it over?

From my perspective the SDA church is nearly totally alone now in the world in identifying the beast power as Rome and it's papal seat as a system that promotes antichrist.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

There is a document I scanned and posted in the traditional forum in the thread 'enemy within'.

I have been busy lately. There is more material I have to convert to computer format. I'll get to them shortly.