Jan Marcussen?

[OntheDL]

And how many did Noah convince? He must have been the lousiest evangelist we've ever had.

 

[OntheDL]

And how many did Noah convince? He must have been the lousiest evangelist we've ever had.

Sanity is not statistical. If we seek majority approval, run for public office.

 

[Sophia7]

We shouldn't present our beliefs in such a way, though, that we automatically turn people off from the outset so that they won't even listen to what we have to say. And that's what Marcussen does.

 

[OntheDL]

We shouldn't present our beliefs in such a way, though, that we automatically turn people off from the outset so that they won't even listen to what we have to say. And that's what Marcussen does.

I don know if that's true. When I was attending a baptist church, I read NSL. It intrigued me. I wanted to find out if it is true.

Unless the person has a preconceived idea, the NSL books do a great job. Even if they don't want to follow now, I believe the national sunday law comes, they will remember.

Remember how John the Baptist told the Jews: hypocrites and vipers. Jesus said the same thing to those who aren't willing to listen.

In what way does Marcussen turn people off from the begining? I've read his books, seen him preach in person and watched his videos. I always thought he teaches the truth and does a very good job uplifting Jesus.

 

[Sophia7]

I don know if that's true. When I was attending a baptist church, I read NSL. It intrigued me. I wanted to find out if it is true.

Unless the person has a preconceived idea, the NSL books do a great job. Even if they don't want to follow now, I believe the national sunday law comes, they will remember.

Remember how John the Baptist told the Jews: hypocrites and vipers. Jesus said the same thing to those who aren't willing to listen.

In what way does Marcussen turn people off from the begining? I've read his books, seen him preach in person and watched his videos. I always thought he teaches the truth and does a very good job uplifting Jesus.

Well, I do agree that it can reach some people and at least make them think and study to see if it's true. So that's not a bad thing.

 

[Adventtruth]

My sheep knows my voice and they follow me. You think Jesus convinced everyone when He was here? Wasn't He the one who started the Christianity at that point was considered a sect also?

My point was, those who never heard the gospel wont be convenced by a day of worship. The only thing that saves is Jesus. To understand what He did for you and trusting that is what saves. However those who are searching for salvation may find intrest in the book. But it is the gospel that has power unto salvation, not the Sunday law book. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. If the gopel can be foolishness to some and a stumbling block to others, then The Sunday law book can surly be unblievable to many.



Adventtruth.

 

[Adventtruth]

I don know if that's true. When I was attending a baptist church, I read NSL. It intrigued me. I wanted to find out if it is true.

Unless the person has a preconceived idea, the NSL books do a great job. Even if they don't want to follow now, I believe the national sunday law comes, they will remember.

This is where I believe the sunday law books are best. To the churched body of believers not the unchurched. The unchurched and unbelievers need to hear the gospel first before they can really grasp the truth of what its all about. You may be correct in saying they may remember later...Gods grace is powerful.

In what way does Marcussen turn people off from the begining? I've read his books, seen him preach in person and watched his videos. I always thought he teaches the truth and does a very good job uplifting Jesus.

People run in different circles...you may have had a passion for truth. Some don't, they only believe what they hear about certain groups.



Adventtruth

 

[Adventtruth]

The National Sunday Law does convince some people. However, I think it turns off way more people than it helps and makes them think that we belong to a cult or something.

Yes it will convince some, but what about the many who never even heard the gospel??? If one who knows the gospel read the sunday law book he either has intrest and considers, or he throws it in the garbage and says they are a bunch of crazies. But for the unchurched and unbelievers they are more confused than ever. The bible tells us that Satan has blinded the minds of the lost, Jesus frees us through the gospel.

Adventtruth

 

[OntheDL]

Yes it will convince some, but what about the many who never even heard the gospel??? If one who knows the gospel read the sunday law book he either has intrest and considers, or he throws it in the garbage and says they are a bunch of crazies. But for the unchurched and unbelievers they are more confused than ever. The bible tells us that Satan has blinded the minds of the lost, Jesus frees us through the gospel.

Adventtruth

I have seen both types of people coming into the church: 1. jumped with both feet when they got ahold of the truth. 2. slowly came after years of outreaching/studying.

I'd prefer to give someone a heavy dose considering there is so much going on in their lives that I might not get a chance to deliver the message if I take it slow. Many of my regular bible studies (27 fundamentals) yielded no fruits. Because most people are just too comfortable in life. Now when I do a study with people, I'm looking to get them either excited or mad: either hot or cold so they can move. Rather than lukewarm that they don't move.

We are competing with TVs, moives, shows, sport games...that go on in the person's life with their average attention span of 15 minutes. Ellen White wrote when we deliver the endtime message, we should do in a dramatic fashion that will grep their attention.

 

[Adventtruth]

I have seen both types of people coming into the church: 1. jumped with both feet when they got ahold of the truth. 2. slowly came after years of outreaching/studying.

I'd prefer to give someone a heavy dose considering there is so much going on in their lives that I might not get a chance to deliver the message if I take it slow. Many of my regular bible studies (27 fundamentals) yielded no fruits. Because most people are just too comfortable in life. Now when I do a study with people, I'm looking to get them either excited or mad: either hot or cold so they can move. Rather than lukewarm that they don't move.

We are competing with TVs, moives, shows, sport games...that go on in the person's life with their average attention span of 15 minutes. Ellen White wrote when we deliver the endtime message, we should do in a dramatic fashion that will grep their attention.

I remember once in the early 90"s we had a big time Adventist preacher from the South come up to the Mid west in to St.Louis where I was living at the time and throw up a huge tent in the heart of the baddest and crime enfested part of St.Louis and preached over these Five foot tall loud speakers for about 2 months it seemed.

He never told those who came out every night what denomination it was until it was over. I mean this guy told it like it was...the cold hearted truth about the Sabbath, the state of the dead...all of our doctrines. You could hear him for blocks over those huge speakers. He pack in about 100-175 new people a night.

He would call every preacher who was not keeping the Sabbath truth a "Jack Leg Preacher" over those big loud speaker. It was something to see back then. After it was over, he told them it was the Adventist Church that teaches these things. He then called for baptism into the church. 256 souls where won for Chirst.

They split the people up into about 4 Adventist churches in the city of St.Louis. After about 6 months we had less than ten left. The rest never came back to the church. Most of the old members never showed the new baptised members love. They constantly beat them over the head with the law and works telling them things they should not do in a mean spirited fashion. some know the truth when they hear it, but they will not stand for ill hearted people.

Adventtruth

 

[OntheDL]

I remember once in the early 90"s we had a big time Adventist preacher from the South come up to the Mid west in to St.Louis where I was living at the time and throw up a huge tent in the heart of the baddest and crime enfested part of St.Louis and preached over these Five foot tall loud speakers for about 2 months it seemed.

He never told those who came out every night what denomination it was until it was over. I mean this guy told it like it was...the cold hearted truth about the Sabbath, the state of the dead...all of our doctrines. You could hear him for blocks over those huge speakers. He pack in about 100-175 new people a night.

He would call every preacher who was not keeping the Sabbath truth a "Jack Leg Preacher" over those big loud speaker. It was something to see back then. After it was over, he told them it was the Adventist Church that teaches these things. He then called for baptism into the church. 256 souls where won for Chirst.

They split the people up into about 4 Adventist churches in the city of St.Louis. After about 6 months we had less than ten left. The rest never came back to the church. Most of the old members never showed the new baptised members love. They constantly beat them over the head with the law and works telling them things they should not do in a mean spirited fashion. some know the truth when they hear it, but they will not stand for ill hearted people.

Adventtruth

Yeah, the problem with that is the church was not ready to receive these people that come out of Babylon.
Saddly it wasn't then, it isn't now.

 

[rdv4444]

Just curious -- does Pastor Jan Marcussen represent mainstream SDA thought?

As a lifelong SDA I have come (sadly) to realise that mainstream Adventist thought has undergone some changes. These appear to have first come in in the middle to late 1950's. Around that time the book "Questions on Doctrine" was published with a new position on the human nature of Christ. The church spoke with one voice on this subject, I understand, in the years 1852 to 1952, but in the later 1950's the new position came in and most SDA's now seem to accept the new position. This was only one of the new positions on certain subjects. So, my point is that mainstream SDA thought now has differences to what it originally had in the days of Ellen White and the pioneers. Personally I believe I should keep to the good original positions that EGW and the pioneers had.

 

[Cliff2]

As a lifelong SDA I have come (sadly) to realise that mainstream Adventist thought has undergone some changes. These appear to have first come in in the middle to late 1950's. Around that time the book "Questions on Doctrine" was published with a new position on the human nature of Christ. The church spoke with one voice on this subject, I understand, in the years 1852 to 1952, but in the later 1950's the new position came in and most SDA's now seem to accept the new position. This was only one of the new positions on certain subjects. So, my point is that mainstream SDA thought now has differences to what it originally had in the days of Ellen White and the pioneers. Personally I believe I should keep to the good original positions that EGW and the pioneers had

When it come to the Narure of Christ it appears to me that there is no clear direct position that can be taken.

The Bible and the SOP is not as clear as to just what we should take onj it.

Perhaps it is not such an important point after all.

Each side can take verses and quotes from EGW to support what they believe to be right.

I have come to the conclusion that Jesus is fully God and fully human. We cannot expalin it or understand it but just has to accept it as it is.

The "28 Fundamentals" are not clear on it either.

 

[OntheDL]

As a lifelong SDA I have come (sadly) to realise that mainstream Adventist thought has undergone some changes. These appear to have first come in in the middle to late 1950's. Around that time the book "Questions on Doctrine" was published with a new position on the human nature of Christ. The church spoke with one voice on this subject, I understand, in the years 1852 to 1952, but in the later 1950's the new position came in and most SDA's now seem to accept the new position. This was only one of the new positions on certain subjects. So, my point is that mainstream SDA thought now has differences to what it originally had in the days of Ellen White and the pioneers. Personally I believe I should keep to the good original positions that EGW and the pioneers had.

Yeah, that was through the dialog with Walter Martin, in an effort to be accepted as mainstream christianity and to avoid the cult label, some of our distinct doctrines became murky.

 

[BrightCandle]

Yeah, the problem with that is the church was not ready to receive these people that come out of Babylon.
Saddly it wasn't then, it isn't now.

I have seen the same type of thing happen in my experience with public evangelism. When the evangelist leaves town, the new converts are often baffled by the wordliness of the local churches they are left in, and by the lack of excitement when it comes to sharing the message with the world at large.

On the other hand, we must face the fact, that as each year passes there are fewer and fewer honest hearted souls that have the resolve and strength of character that it takes to ". . . keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus", till the end of their life, or till the return of Jesus.

 

[Dathen]

Amen!

 

[Cliff2]

http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

The above link will take us to the 28 Fundamentals and I see no direct heading on the Narure of Christ.

Maybe someone can give us an official link on what we believe on it.

 

[OntheDL]

I have seen the same type of thing happen in my experience with public evangelism. When the evangelist leaves town, the new converts are often baffled by the wordliness of the local churches they are left in, and by the lack of excitement when it comes to sharing the message with the world at large.

On the other hand, we must face the fact, that as each year passes there are fewer and fewer honest hearted souls that have the resolve and strength of character that it takes to ". . . keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus", till the end of their life, or till the return of Jesus.

One of the guys in my study group went to my local church once and told me he doesn't want to be a part of that congregation because the members completely lack of reverence during worship service by walking in and out, talking, dressing inappropriately...

And yet whenever this topic is brought up, they will cry being judged.

SOP tells us in the end, the church isn't going to exist like today, only the name/the movement will remain. The true believers will worship in small groups. I can't wait for that day.

 

[BrightCandle]

One of the guys in my study group went to my local church once and told me he doesn't want to be a part of that congregation because the members completely lack of reverence during worship service by walking in and out, talking, dressing inappropriately...

And yet whenever this topic is brought up, they will cry being judged.

SOP tells us in the end, the church isn't going to exist like today, only the name/the movement will remain. The true believers will worship in small groups. I can't wait for that day.

I'm with you, Bro.

 

[Sophia7]

http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html

The above link will take us to the 28 Fundamentals and I see no direct heading on the Narure of Christ.

Maybe someone can give us an official link on what we believe on it.

As far as I know, the church has not issued an official statement of belief that defines this one way or the other. It tends to be controversial in some Adventist circles. People on both sides use the Bible and/or EGW to defend their positions. I did find a couple of documents on the Biblical Research Institute site--one that supports a fallen nature of Christ and the other an unfallen nature:
http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/humanatureChristfallen.pdf
http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/humanatureChristunfallen.pdf