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James 5:14 and the anointing with oil

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aReformedPatriot

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Jam 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

I believe the Catholics call this "extreme unction" its a sacrament. Do we anoint people with oil? What does the oil symbolize, and what kind of oil did they use?
 

eldermike

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Also remember James wrote this letter to scattered Jewish believers. He was calling them to service and ministry to each others needs. This is not about healing of the sick, it's about prayer and trusting in the Lord. And it's especially true for these that can no longer depend on the rich Jews now that they have turned to Christ. The first part of the chapter sets this up.

The anointing is prayer, the oil is something they were taught from old ways, Answered prayers was the new thing. James was seeking to be patient in waiting on the Lord and ADD prayer to an already old custom. Then He says it's the prayer that works!
15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.

 
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SonOfThunder

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eldermike said:
Also remember James wrote this letter to scattered Jewish believers. He was calling them to service and ministry to each others needs. This is not about healing of the sick, it's about prayer and trusting in the Lord. And it's especially true for these that can no longer depend on the rich Jews now that they have turned to Christ. The first part of the chapter sets this up.

The anointing is prayer, the oil is something they were taught from old ways, Answered prayers was the new thing. James was seeking to be patient in waiting on the Lord and ADD prayer to an already old custom. Then He says it's the prayer that works!
15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.

:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:
Thankyou for this post, it has always been an interest of mine why churches adopt some practices and dismiss others.

The first century church, much like the disciples (or even us today) take a lot of convincing. We see in the OT many many rituals that of course pictured that we cannot do it without Christ.

Because God has seen fit to include this in The Bible and also point out it is the prayer that worked (James 5:15). This prayer reached our great God, because the elders were called and they used oil. Is oil important? it's in The Bible. Man sets himself up to reason the things of God, I really don't think an elder going to a home and using oil while praying will offend God.

Just my opinion... ;)
 
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Dmckay

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BT's observation is correct. Olive oil was often mixed with herbs, wine or others components and used as a medicine. There are two views of this passage's interpretation and both can be supported from Scripture. The first is what BT has already mentioned. Seeking what medical treatment is available, but since this is mentioned in context with the calling of the elders, and most elders are not medically trained, this might be the weaker of the interpretations. That even though this is a viable possibility.

In context this passage is tied to confession of sins one to another and the prayer of faith. Verse 16 reads: "Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you might be healed." I we look at what we have here we start with someone who is sick. The nature of the illness is not specified, it could be anything from a cold to cancer. The individual is to call for the elders to come to them. The healing that is promised is coupled to the forgiveness of committed sins. For this reason there are many who have come to interpret this as referring to an instance where the individual who is ill, is ill as result of some unconfessed sin in their life that has broken fellowship between that believer and the Lord. The illness is seen as a means of driving that person to repent of their sin and restore fellowship with G-d.

We are told in Scripture that whom the Lord loves, He chastens. The terms used in the New Testament for "chasten" and "punish" both have a primary meaning of training or instruction. It appears that there is a possibility of the Lord using an illness to discipline and restore fellowship with a believer who has, or is sinning. In this case they are to call for the elders, confess (repent of) their sin, and allow the elders to pray for them and anoint them with oil. Many times in Scripture the anointing with oil represents the Holy Spirit coming upon that individual. In the case where a person has sinned to the point of needing intercession by the elders, they will have severely quenched the Holy Spirit working in their life.

1 John 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it
1 John 5:17 "All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death."

These passages from John's epistle seem to confirm that there are times when illness is sent to discipline a wayward believer, even unto death if their sin has gone too far in dishonoring their relationship and reputation for the Lord. We are instructed NOT to pray for one who has sinned unto death.

Before you reject this possible interpretation of this passage in James, consider this. If this formula is followed healing is promised. Why do we have believers in the church that die from illness if all that has to happen is to have the elders come, anoint them with oil and pray for them to be healed? Either James is lying, the elders aren't praying in faith or it is speaking about a specific illness that is a result of unconfessed sin in the life of that believer.

Believers can and do get sick with illnesses that that take their lives, not because they lack faith or they weren't properly anointed. It is because G-d has some purpose that we may not understand, for this illness and death in the life of the believer.
 
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aReformedPatriot

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I am curious to see the how of anointing. In pentecostal circles they dab it on their thumb and smudge it on your forehead. I am not to sure of this but in the OT wasnt it poured over some people. How did the early church do it, smudge or pour?
 
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eldermike

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Before you reject this possible interpretation of this passage in James, consider this. If this formula is followed healing is promised. Why do we have believers in the church that die from illness if all that has to happen is to have the elders come, anoint them with oil and pray for them to be healed? Either James is lying, the elders aren't praying in faith or it is speaking about a specific illness that is a result of unconfessed sin in the life of that believer.

I hear you, but, it seems to me to be a works based type of thinking. But I will think about it.
 
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Sword-In-Hand

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I think the most important part of that verse(s) is and a prayer of faith will heal the sick.

We recently had a man in our church ask for the pastor and the deacons to pray over him, as he had injured his leg severly and it was going to require massive surgery. They met, prayed, everyone believed and now the man's knee is fine and he does not require surgery at all.
I've been annointed twice. The first time was by a Methodist minister and he rubbed the oil on my forehead in the pattern of the cross. My Baptist pastor annointed me another time and he just smudged the oil.
 
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Dmckay

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eldermike said:
I hear you, but, it seems to me to be a works based type of thinking. But I will think about it.
I don't understand how you came to this conclusion. The individual involved is already saved prior to falling ill due to unconfessed, unrepented sin in their life. It is much different, just a bit more extreme than 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithfult and righteous to forgive is our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Is this a works based salvation?

Remember Jesus healed one man by saying, "Your sins are forgiven."
 
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eldermike

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Is this a works based salvation?

Remember Jesus healed one man by saying, "Your sins are forgiven."

Well, I didn't say "salvation". I know people that believe that any sickness is a lack of faith. Which I think is very unfair to say when children with nothing but faith get sick all the time. Not saying that you said that or even subscribe to such, the idea just reminds me of that type thinking.
I also said, I will think about it.
 
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arunma

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The Lord's Envoy said:
I am curious to see the how of anointing. In pentecostal circles they dab it on their thumb and smudge it on your forehead. I am not to sure of this but in the OT wasnt it poured over some people. How did the early church do it, smudge or pour?

Well like I said, I've seen it done, to my mother, actually. It's dabbed on the forehead. But hey, for non-magic oil, it works wonders. Mom reported no more arthritis for weeks!

Just kidding. I know it was the prayer that did the real trick. As a Baptist, you'll never find me admitting to believe in grace through sacraments. ;)
 
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MbiaJc

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Before you reject this possible interpretation of this passage in James, consider this. If this formula is followed healing is promised. Why do we have believers in the church that die from illness if all that has to happen is to have the elders come, anoint them with oil and pray for them to be healed? Either James is lying, the elders aren't praying in faith or it is speaking about a specific illness that is a result of unconfessed sin in the life of that believer.

There is one more possibilitie: what the Church calles Elders is flawed. The elders that James is talking about are the elderly men of the Churchs. The Elders that are ordanined by God and set in the Church by the Holy Spirit are the elderly men in the Church which are 50yr. old and older that meet the qualifications.
I think it is fifty, couldn't find my notes and hadn't got time to look it up. The Aaron priesthood started their service at age 30 and quit temple service at age fifty I think. At that age they could be appointed to the Sanhedrin Court. Even thoe as hard as some try to deny the Church is paterned after the Aaron priesthood she is
.
The only time I have seen the true Elders anoint with oil, lay hands on and pray for a sick person. He was divinly healed. And BTW it is well documented.


Believers can and do get sick with illnesses that that take their lives, not because they lack faith or they weren't properly anointed. It is because G-d has some purpose that we may not understand, for this illness and death in the life of the believer.

When your time is up it is up.
 
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Dmckay

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eldermike said:
Well, I didn't say "salvation". I know people that believe that any sickness is a lack of faith. Which I think is very unfair to say when children with nothing but faith get sick all the time. Not saying that you said that or even subscribe to such, the idea just reminds me of that type thinking.
I also said, I will think about it.
Thank you for the clarification. To my way of thinking "works" are usually related to human attempts to earn salvation. Since I had started out saying that we were talking about a saved individual, I didn't see how you were using "Works". Now I understand where you were coming from.
 
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