Jack Chick Victims?

[Susan]

God once used a talking donkey to successfully convey His message (the story of Balaam, in Numbers)

He can use anything or anyone (and I'm definitely very thankful for that!) however, just because God uses something or someone does not make what is used the gold standard for evangelism or purity of practice, nor does it mean that everything that issues from what is used is good.

Using the example of the donkey, I would find it very hard to believe that God would require all of us us to dress in donkey suits and go talking to people, in order to imitate the donkey.

Also, I don't think that the talking donkey is an example of "how to be a better Christian."

Nor do I think that we should spend our Sundays and every other day listening to the braying of a donkey to see if God uses one again, when 99.9 percent of us have much better places to go for teaching.

 

[Susan]

Another thing: should we endorse someone who bears false witness and has been repeatedly caught unrepentantly doing so (the promotion of Rebecca Brown, "Alberto," some of the KJV Only claims among others, even after people told him that they were false/misleading)

Many of us (including me) believed that Bill Clinton should have been removed from office for lying.

Shouldn't we hold tract publishers and "evangelists" to a higher standard than we do politicians?

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Rhetoric huh? Nice. Perhaps your family needs to read it too?

They live what their churches teach them. You can but the holy medals right in the church sanctuary, along with little statues of Mary and prayer books filled with prayers to Mary, and little images of her different apparitions around the whole, with little folders of the right prayers to go with the right statues.

If my family is mislead, it is because their churches are misleading them. You'd do good to forward your link to the Dioceses of Youngtown and Pittburgh. This seem to be misinformed about Catholicism.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by lambslove
They live what their churches teach them. You can but the holy medals right in the church sanctuary, along with little statues of Mary and prayer books filled with prayers to Mary, and little images of her different apparitions around the whole, with little folders of the right prayers to go with the right statues.

If my family is mislead, it is because their churches are misleading them. You'd do good to forward your link to the Dioceses of Youngtown and Pittburgh. This seem to be misinformed about Catholicism.

Your sarcasm is ironic, since my priest said last night in RCIA class, "If any Catholics worship Mary, please send them to a priest, so they can be straightened out"

 

[Wolseley]

If my family is mislead, it is because their churches are misleading them. You'd do good to forward your link to the Dioceses of Youngtown and Pittburgh. This seem to be misinformed about Catholicism.

Hmmm. You prompted me to do some looking, lambslove. I wondered what sort of heretical teaching is being foisted off in Youngstown and Pittsburgh.

From the website of the Catholic Diocese of Youngstown, I found this article written by the Bishop about Mary:

http://www.doy.org/viewpast.asp?ID=14

And from the website of the Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh, I found this article on the significance of Mary in the Church:

http://www.diopitt.org/17mtext.htm.

Both of them appear to be in complete accordance with the teachings of the Holy See and within the tradition of the Catholic Church, and neither of them mention the "worship" of Mary, or any type of exaltation of her over Jesus in any way whatsoever.

Could it possibly be that the misunderstandings about what the Church teaches concerning Mary do not lie with the Dioceses of Youngstown and Pittsburgh, but perhaps.......somewhere else?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Imagine that Wols, it might just happen to be "somewhere" else, huh?

 

[Wolseley]

The view you get depends on the color glasses you're wearing, that's all I can say.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

I also wonder how apparitions, statues, and "prayers to" Mary, etc, equate to "worship" of Mary. I don't get it? Hmmmmm.

Could it be that we are actually...honoring her? I mean, is that possible?

 

[Susan]

I'm not defending or attacking Catholicism nor Jack Chick's views on it unless he's lying or promoting someone who is (namely the Alberto debacle).

The extreme KJV Onlyism, the "majoring on the minors," the lies and misrepresentations about RPGs and RPG players, the recruitment of people from even conservative and fundamentalist churches that don't subscribe to hyper-fundamentalism, and most of all the generally abrasive and hateful approach are my main problems with Jack Chick, since I am a Protestant.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Susan
I'm not defending or attacking Catholicism nor Jack Chick's views on it unless he's lying or promoting someone who is (namely the Alberto debacle).

The extreme KJV Onlyism, the "majoring on the minors," the lies and misrepresentations about RPGs and RPG players, the recruitment of people from even conservative and fundamentalist churches that don't subscribe to hyper-fundamentalism, and most of all the generally abrasive and hateful approach are my main problems with Jack Chick, since I am a Protestant.

Well said.

 

[Susan]

Thank you

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by Wolseley
Hmmm. You prompted me to do some looking, lambslove. I wondered what sort of heretical teaching is being foisted off in Youngstown and Pittsburgh.

From the website of the Catholic Diocese of Youngstown, I found this article written by the Bishop about Mary:

http://www.doy.org/viewpast.asp?ID=14

And from the website of the Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh, I found this article on the significance of Mary in the Church:

http://www.diopitt.org/17mtext.htm.

Both of them appear to be in complete accordance with the teachings of the Holy See and within the tradition of the Catholic Church, and neither of them mention the "worship" of Mary, or any type of exaltation of her over Jesus in any way whatsoever.

Could it possibly be that the misunderstandings about what the Church teaches concerning Mary do not lie with the Dioceses of Youngstown and Pittsburgh, but perhaps.......somewhere else?

Those are the Roman Catholic dioceses, aren't they? My family is Byzantine Catholic.

 

[Wolseley]

The Byzantine Rite is still in communion with the Holy See. But since you're making the distinction, why the hostility to Rome?

 

[Gerry]

Non-Denominational/ Reformed/ Protestant Discussions??????

Souljah your ZEAL is commendable! But you have a way of turning every discussion into a Catholic vs. the World issue. Everyone is attacking and picking on Catholics! Yeah, right!

Since Jack Chick has attacked the Catholic Church and it's beliefs, how many members has the Church lost, as a result, do you think? Is the Vatican in danger of folding up and going out of business?

Are you aware that others have attacked the Roman Catholic Church in a far more viscious way than Jack Chick? Well no, I guess not. You NEVER mention any of those.

Do you not see you are guilty of the same thing as Jack Chick, only in reverse? You travel around and attack any position that is not Roman Catholic.

Do you know Jack Chick attacks many things I believe in too. But I am NO VICTIM. His attack means nothing. Just like it means nothing to the Roman Catholic Church.

Stop choosing to be a victim. You want to promote your beliefs. Do it in a positive way. Tell people the good things about the Roman Catholic Church, as you see it. Talk about the benefits. Be loving and kind.

For the Catholic Church to go to war with Jack Chick is like the US Army going to war with a single member of a Cub Scout Pack. Really!

You would do better to promote the Catholic Church like Mother Teresa! THAT'S the way to defend your faith. THAT'S the way to win converts.

 

[Susan]

Jack Chick is an Protestant issue too, as I have stated.

 

[Gerry]

Yes, I completely agree. He has also attacked Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses, and Mormons as well.

I simply think he is getting more credit than he deserves. As I said he has disuaded no one from the Catholic Church nor any protestant Church either.

I just feel we could more productively spend our time in winning others TO our cause, rather than fighting the likes of Jack Chick or anyone else. He is very small potato's

 

[Susan]

He may have dissuaded no one from any church, however he has caused a lot of harm.

Because of him and the malicious canards he started, (and because of the people who intentionally or unintentionally spread those lies in one way or another) some people look at me like I'm some sort of potentially dangerous, spiritually useless, and maybe even satanic rebel. I'm none of that, and neither are many other people who watch anime and/or play RPGs.

 

[Susan]

And yes, he is "small potatoes." As is Berit Kjos. However, these people can really make Christians look bad and Christianity look like a works religion.

Liberalism tears grace from the Gospel by insisting on no need for it.

Hyperfundamentalism (Chick, Kjos, et al) reduces grace to a formula of initially freely offered, then a tradeoff system of works out of fear of losing salvation or the love and honor of God. It goes like this: "if I read 10 chapters of the Bible a day, God will love me." "He still hates me so maybe 20 chapters would be better." "He hates me even more, because I fell asleep at 15 chapters yesterday. So I have to read 30 today and do another good work like throw tracts at all my neighbors or give up something I like to do. . ." and on it goes. It is slavish fear of a boss who will crush you if you don't do what you're told, rather than of a Father who wants you to love Him and to do your works out of that rather than "God will stomp on me."

 

[Wolseley]

Don't forget that Chick is almost single-handedly responsible for keeping in print several ancient books that would have disappeared decades ago, if not for their anti-Catholic slant: Hislop's The Two Babylons can be had through Chick Publications, as can Chiniquy's 50 Years in the Church of Rome and The Woman, the Priest, and the Confessional. At one time, I even think he carried Maria Monk's Awful Disclosures and some similar junk from people like Avro Manhattan.

Every single one of these books dates from the middle of the 1850's and is still in print, thanks to the Chickster. And while people might easily dismiss his lurid comic books as so much trash, someone without a solid academic brackground could be taken in by these old potboilers, since on the surface they seem to be of scholarly quality, especially Hislop. (The same is true of Boettner's Roman Catholicism, which Chick oddly does not carry, and it's the king of them all.)

So you're correct in saying that Chick is small potatoes. But he's standing on the shoulders of a host of other doctrinal midgets, and with their combined height, he does attract some attention.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

As I said he has disuaded no one from the Catholic Church

And you can backup this statement with...