but how can we be sure it dissproves the concept of original sin? The flood? The validity of the rest of our very religion?
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I've lost it....
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BigToe
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just breathe. take a deep breath. it doesn't disprove any of that. i believe god uses science. he wants us to understand the world around us. he doesn't want us to be robots and just accept what we are told for the sake of accepting it. he wants us to truly know it.
do you have a youth minister or pastor you can talk to that you trust?
do you have a youth minister or pastor you can talk to that you trust?
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No, my youth minister likes jack chick tracts. that should explain enough right there.
my old pastor was really cool. But he left
my old pastor was really cool. But he left
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TheOriginalWhitehorse
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Christiangamer said:Okay, so now we blame adam and eve for screwin up for us? As one who believes in evolution, i find it very likely that other people may have been around sooner. We call evolution a lie? Why? Because we have such attachment to a freakin book.....written by people WHO WERENT THEIR! Moses lived 2,000 years later supposedly. What did he know? Did God sit him down for like 20 days straight and tell him to write a direct quote from Gods very lips? Its very possible that other religions came around befor us....and I mean the jewish faith from which we came. Do you think entire empires and civilizations developed just from renegades in a matter of years? Adam and eve were not alone! How about the kains wife for example? And get this, God put a mark on kains forehead so he wouldnt be harmed by others. Who? Tell me, if adam and even and kain were alone? And what about the flood? Noah had to have every kind of animal. He lived in what is now proably iraq. Thats a very small part of the world. If the entire world was flooded, we wouldnt have animals in deserted places like the arctic, australia, theyda all died. We live blindly in faith and blame all who are different of being rebelious or decieved by Satan. Why dont you people read up on Darwin and stuff? Learn his story and what he wrote. Will he sound so crazy then? He knew the bible front and back! He had a degree in theology. Our very religion could have been created just like any other. How do we know were prayin to the right God? Heck, our prayers could have been answered by a different higher intelligence. Or worse, there may be no God, and were all just crazy!
Are you proposing Darwin was around before Adam & Eve? And, are you proposing that anyone who invented some religion was around before, say...God?
And if Darwin was so hot in theology, why is it he denied God? That's not a very good theologian if you ask me. And, satan knows the Bible pretty well, too.
No, our religion couldn't have just been created like any other. It is the only religion htat offers atonement for sin, and no man could have designed it. Everything about it and redemption flies in the face of human nature, and human pride. And no other religion offers this atonement for sin.
You need to relax, my friend. The answers are there.
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Not for me.
Btw, read up on him. After his finishing his studies, before he became a clergyman, he got into biology. He was taken on a voyage to the galapagos on teh ship the beagle. He was gone five years. Then he began to question his faith. He probably mostly questioned the flood. and the whole six days thing.
No, I'm not saying Darwin was around before them, but his theory is not ridiculous. Most who ridicule it, never really studied it, or understood it.
BTW, a hethen who never heard of God probably has a set of moral values. Somebody could have done that long ago. Before "adam and eve" only 6,000 years ago, when its most likely the world and human exhistence is older.
Stories in the bible could have been fabricated, falsly translated, and or worse. Its too unlikely for it too be entirely right.
Btw, read up on him. After his finishing his studies, before he became a clergyman, he got into biology. He was taken on a voyage to the galapagos on teh ship the beagle. He was gone five years. Then he began to question his faith. He probably mostly questioned the flood. and the whole six days thing.
No, I'm not saying Darwin was around before them, but his theory is not ridiculous. Most who ridicule it, never really studied it, or understood it.
BTW, a hethen who never heard of God probably has a set of moral values. Somebody could have done that long ago. Before "adam and eve" only 6,000 years ago, when its most likely the world and human exhistence is older.
Stories in the bible could have been fabricated, falsly translated, and or worse. Its too unlikely for it too be entirely right.
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BigToe
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actually many different societies from around the globe have stories similar to the "flood" happening. and while it might not have been to the extent where the whole globe was covered in water- there are definately accounts that there was some major flooding going on- and all around the same time. check out accounts. non christian civilizations have stories about it too.
dont fret hun, just breathe
dont fret hun, just breathe
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TheOriginalWhitehorse
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Christiangamer said:
So, do you put more faith in a human being or in God? If you say people could have falsified scripture, you haven't studied the character of the Bible very well. Moreover, no sinful man could have penned anything like that.
So why do you put more stock in a guy who studied all that religion just to deny what he studied? Look at the character in scripture, and look at his character. Why do you put more stock in a sinful man than God? No sinner who would falsify the Bible is capable in his character of arriving at such truth, and advocate this kind of righteousness. It's impossible. He'd be too wrapped up in his selfish and deceptive designs and incapable of the humility that God's sovereignty as revealed in scripture requires.
It's back to what I said about the human heart.
If you think scripture can't be right, then you worship a very small God, not the one of the Bible. You think He can create an endless universe, but cannot even reveal His will to His creation? Think it through.
In regards to evolution, a table has four legs and so does a chair. It doesn't mean one came out of the other. Maybe you should consider what made Darwin fall away. What was it in His heart that he didn't want to believe the truth?
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Yet you will believe everything went poof! And in 6 days everything was fine and dandy.
You know why so many people are atheists? Religion sounds like a fairytale. Do you think people who believe in evolution are stupid, because its a theory written by fallible man? Was the bible not written by man? How are you sure even God is pleased with it? He lets lots of other bad things go. Well, I'm going to sleep on it. I'll be sure to pray, hope God will answer, however he can. I havent given up everything yet.
You know why so many people are atheists? Religion sounds like a fairytale. Do you think people who believe in evolution are stupid, because its a theory written by fallible man? Was the bible not written by man? How are you sure even God is pleased with it? He lets lots of other bad things go. Well, I'm going to sleep on it. I'll be sure to pray, hope God will answer, however he can. I havent given up everything yet.
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William Nunn
Babies enjoy living too!
*Okay, so now we blame adam and eve for screwin up for us? As one who believes in evolution, i find it very likely that other people may have been around sooner. We call evolution a lie? Why? Because we have such attachment to a freakin book.....written by people WHO WERENT THEIR!*
Why do you have such an attachment to evolution? It's a theory proposed by people.......who weren't there! And in actuality, the Bible WAS written by people who were there. If you are going to question that, then you might as well question every single thing you've ever read, because how many times were there to actually see the studies conducted by scientists who try to prove evolution? You take their word on faith, but you are unwilling to do the same for the Bible?
* Moses lived 2,000 years later supposedly. What did he know? Did God sit him down for like 20 days straight and tell him to write a direct quote from Gods very lips? Its very possible that other religions came around befor us....and I mean the jewish faith from which we came. *
I can also say it's possible that we are all actually aliens and we ate all the original humans and are just walking around in their skins. The important thing though, is to STUDY, and find the answer for yourself. You shouldn't dismiss something with so much historical evidence behind it because there is some vague possibility that something came before it. You'll have to study that for yourself.
*Do you think entire empires and civilizations developed just from renegades in a matter of years?*
Yes. Read the book The Puzzle of Ancient Man. It's a christian book based of secular findings, and shows that given the proper resources, man is able to VERY quickly establish a highly ordered society.
*Adam and eve were not alone! How about the kains wife for example? And get this, God put a mark on kains forehead so he wouldnt be harmed by others. Who? Tell me, if adam and even and kain were alone?*
Again, you need to study more, because that question you ask is something you are regurgitating. If you would study the Bible for yourself and not listen to some secular Bible denouncer, you'd see that Adam and Eve had MANY children. I don't have my Bible with me at the moment so I can't give you the exact passage, but it clearly states that they had many sons and daughters. That's where Cain's wife came from, and those were the ones who would harm him for killing their brother.
*And what about the flood? Noah had to have every kind of animal. He lived in what is now proably iraq. Thats a very small part of the world. If the entire world was flooded, we wouldnt have animals in deserted places like the arctic, australia, theyda all died.*
Reall? What evidence do you have of this? If you can believe in something that requires so many leaps of faith, like evolution, why can't you believe that there was a land bridge, or that animals swam, or were introuced by voyages made by human beings?
*We live blindly in faith and blame all who are different of being rebelious or decieved by Satan.*
No, WE don't. Some of us study our faith very much. I know I do.
* Why dont you people read up on Darwin and stuff? Learn his story and what he wrote. Will he sound so crazy then?*
I have read up on Darwin, many times in fact. And yes, he does sound crazy. He even admitted himself that there were several gaping holes in his theory, most of all the fossil record.
*He knew the bible front and back!*
So does Satan. So do many aetheists.
*He had a degree in theology. Our very religion could have been created just like any other. How do we know were prayin to the right God? Heck, our prayers could have been answered by a different higher intelligence. Or worse, there may be no God, and were all just crazy!*
Sure it could have. But that's up to you to study and find out. Instead of listening with such faith to all the evolutinary theories and such, why don't you study the Bible? And make some logical conclusions by observing the world around you? You will find the answers you need, if You really want them, and aren't just trying to make yourself feel better about your unwillingness to believe.
Why do you have such an attachment to evolution? It's a theory proposed by people.......who weren't there! And in actuality, the Bible WAS written by people who were there. If you are going to question that, then you might as well question every single thing you've ever read, because how many times were there to actually see the studies conducted by scientists who try to prove evolution? You take their word on faith, but you are unwilling to do the same for the Bible?
* Moses lived 2,000 years later supposedly. What did he know? Did God sit him down for like 20 days straight and tell him to write a direct quote from Gods very lips? Its very possible that other religions came around befor us....and I mean the jewish faith from which we came. *
I can also say it's possible that we are all actually aliens and we ate all the original humans and are just walking around in their skins. The important thing though, is to STUDY, and find the answer for yourself. You shouldn't dismiss something with so much historical evidence behind it because there is some vague possibility that something came before it. You'll have to study that for yourself.
*Do you think entire empires and civilizations developed just from renegades in a matter of years?*
Yes. Read the book The Puzzle of Ancient Man. It's a christian book based of secular findings, and shows that given the proper resources, man is able to VERY quickly establish a highly ordered society.
*Adam and eve were not alone! How about the kains wife for example? And get this, God put a mark on kains forehead so he wouldnt be harmed by others. Who? Tell me, if adam and even and kain were alone?*
Again, you need to study more, because that question you ask is something you are regurgitating. If you would study the Bible for yourself and not listen to some secular Bible denouncer, you'd see that Adam and Eve had MANY children. I don't have my Bible with me at the moment so I can't give you the exact passage, but it clearly states that they had many sons and daughters. That's where Cain's wife came from, and those were the ones who would harm him for killing their brother.
*And what about the flood? Noah had to have every kind of animal. He lived in what is now proably iraq. Thats a very small part of the world. If the entire world was flooded, we wouldnt have animals in deserted places like the arctic, australia, theyda all died.*
Reall? What evidence do you have of this? If you can believe in something that requires so many leaps of faith, like evolution, why can't you believe that there was a land bridge, or that animals swam, or were introuced by voyages made by human beings?
*We live blindly in faith and blame all who are different of being rebelious or decieved by Satan.*
No, WE don't. Some of us study our faith very much. I know I do.
* Why dont you people read up on Darwin and stuff? Learn his story and what he wrote. Will he sound so crazy then?*
I have read up on Darwin, many times in fact. And yes, he does sound crazy. He even admitted himself that there were several gaping holes in his theory, most of all the fossil record.
*He knew the bible front and back!*
So does Satan. So do many aetheists.
*He had a degree in theology. Our very religion could have been created just like any other. How do we know were prayin to the right God? Heck, our prayers could have been answered by a different higher intelligence. Or worse, there may be no God, and were all just crazy!*
Sure it could have. But that's up to you to study and find out. Instead of listening with such faith to all the evolutinary theories and such, why don't you study the Bible? And make some logical conclusions by observing the world around you? You will find the answers you need, if You really want them, and aren't just trying to make yourself feel better about your unwillingness to believe.
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William Nunn
Babies enjoy living too!
*Btw, read up on him. After his finishing his studies, before he became a clergyman, he got into biology. He was taken on a voyage to the galapagos on teh ship the beagle. He was gone five years. Then he began to question his faith. He probably mostly questioned the flood. and the whole six days thing. *
I read that it was the death of his daughter that had him questioning his faith, not just some voyage to and island.
*No, I'm not saying Darwin was around before them, but his theory is not ridiculous. Most who ridicule it, never really studied it, or understood it.*
Wrong. Many have studied it, repeatedly. And I reiterate, there are just some OBVIOUS problems with it, as he himself admitted.
*BTW, a hethen who never heard of God probably has a set of moral values. Somebody could have done that long ago. Before "adam and eve" only 6,000 years ago, when its most likely the world and human exhistence is older.
Stories in the bible could have been fabricated, falsly translated, and or worse. Its too unlikely for it too be entirely right.*
Why is it too unlikely? You are willing to believe that the world was formed of chance occurneces and random processes. Just think, logically-without blindly swallowing any of the garbage fed to you by evolutionists, about what evolution entails, and then apply it to your life. See if it makes any sense. You need to study more bro. I've said it a dozen times, but that's the only answer here. You are beating several very dead horses here, most of your questions have been answered in many different books.
I read that it was the death of his daughter that had him questioning his faith, not just some voyage to and island.
*No, I'm not saying Darwin was around before them, but his theory is not ridiculous. Most who ridicule it, never really studied it, or understood it.*
Wrong. Many have studied it, repeatedly. And I reiterate, there are just some OBVIOUS problems with it, as he himself admitted.
*BTW, a hethen who never heard of God probably has a set of moral values. Somebody could have done that long ago. Before "adam and eve" only 6,000 years ago, when its most likely the world and human exhistence is older.
Stories in the bible could have been fabricated, falsly translated, and or worse. Its too unlikely for it too be entirely right.*
Why is it too unlikely? You are willing to believe that the world was formed of chance occurneces and random processes. Just think, logically-without blindly swallowing any of the garbage fed to you by evolutionists, about what evolution entails, and then apply it to your life. See if it makes any sense. You need to study more bro. I've said it a dozen times, but that's the only answer here. You are beating several very dead horses here, most of your questions have been answered in many different books.
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TheOriginalWhitehorse
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Christiangamer said:
Well, if you don't believe God is any bigger than man, then no wonder it sounds like a fairy tale. Man cannot do these things. As for whether the Bible was written by man and whether or not God is pleased with it, please read my posts again since I have already adressed the topic. If you have questions about it, feel free to ask.
PS Praying with the right spirit makes a huge difference as to the outcome.
Blessings,
Whitehorse
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Krazeekkc
Irregular Nonconformist
1. 'How can 20 religions be so wrong?' Think about why couldn't 20 religions be so wrong? What would hold humans back from making up 20 wrong religions?Christiangamer said:
2. 'God's touch'. That's a bit trickier. I think that people aren'y just making it up. They can tell. Their senses can too. If that makes any sense too you.
3. Me too. I believe most miracles happen because of God and maybe a few little ones happen naturally.
4. Spells are just prayers to Satan not really Pagan gods. Why would God give him the ability to do this. I believe Satan has these powers from when he was an angel.
5. Ya, you can't really pick and choose what you want to believe in the Bible.
6. Ok, all of our Old Testament is the same as the Jews Torrah (sp?). They've watched and kept over it since they've had it. So we now have half of our Bible. The New Testament didn't come until a little while ago and I really don't think anything has happened to it since we got it. Plus I do think He was protecting the Bible because He knows that's our only way to get information in that respect. He might of done some ubstucting.
7. Alright think about how many people it's killed. Now think of an organization that still employs thousands of people and helps people. People going and helping those who live on the streets. The people helping the poor people will get paid and the poor people can help by making things like..... license plates I don't know. But something like that would benefit us all. Where tobacco and alcohol hurts a half.
8. I can live with out the pagan holidays.
9. It does bring lots of argument. But, religion is here and it isn't going anywhere.
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Sigh....please excuse some of my posts. they were out of line.
I'm just so sick of how the bible makes everything bad in this world....when some things arent that awful, they may not be good, but they may not be hell worthy. (imo)
Then we act like a freakin cult, by tellin other people to be like us, scaring them into being like us, then were all like......."jesus is coming jesus is coming jesus is coming all who are not us will be punished for eternitiy for their human mistakes." I can never be happy with a religion like that. Then you tell me God loves me and wants me to be happy, well what if i was happy before this whole mess? Now I'm unhappy because i have to change my whole freakin life, who i was, and dispose of my secular dreams. I get persecuted because I have different ideas.
You know we act like the whole world is out to get us because of Satans inlfuence.
That people are evil.
The people around us, are if you havent noticed people just like us. Yes, I and I also mean J. K. Rowling, and the people at Wizards of the Coast making dungeons and dragons, the rock stars on tv, the gamemaking corporations, the people at hollywood. They are just people trying to get through life. They are not trying to hurt anyone, And yet we judge and call them evil? God will punish eternaly people who do things to make them happy, and arent saved by jesus, simply because of there skeptism. Its unfair and horrible. BTW, is one reason why i believe christ isnt God in such a literal sense, but thats beside the point cuz we'll get into another horribly long discussion of accusations and cold remarks. I just want to live damnit, and do what it takes to get through life, not live in a cave seperated from a world of people no better than I.
I'm hopin to get a rock band together, will God smite me because I make secular artc that doesnt go along with the bible? I have an interest in RPG gaming, I even make games with a program i have, will i be smited because my game depicts magic?
course your answer would be "no" if im a christian, then you turn around and say, you cant do it anyways.
I cannot praise a God, that in order to be happy in death, you must be miserable on earth because you must conform to his intended lifestyle. live your whole life questioning and judging others in hopes to save them? Then live in high expantency of the end of the world, instead of living in the now exhisting world. Its too freakin much.
I'm just so sick of how the bible makes everything bad in this world....when some things arent that awful, they may not be good, but they may not be hell worthy. (imo)
Then we act like a freakin cult, by tellin other people to be like us, scaring them into being like us, then were all like......."jesus is coming jesus is coming jesus is coming all who are not us will be punished for eternitiy for their human mistakes." I can never be happy with a religion like that. Then you tell me God loves me and wants me to be happy, well what if i was happy before this whole mess? Now I'm unhappy because i have to change my whole freakin life, who i was, and dispose of my secular dreams. I get persecuted because I have different ideas.
You know we act like the whole world is out to get us because of Satans inlfuence.
That people are evil.
The people around us, are if you havent noticed people just like us. Yes, I and I also mean J. K. Rowling, and the people at Wizards of the Coast making dungeons and dragons, the rock stars on tv, the gamemaking corporations, the people at hollywood. They are just people trying to get through life. They are not trying to hurt anyone, And yet we judge and call them evil? God will punish eternaly people who do things to make them happy, and arent saved by jesus, simply because of there skeptism. Its unfair and horrible. BTW, is one reason why i believe christ isnt God in such a literal sense, but thats beside the point cuz we'll get into another horribly long discussion of accusations and cold remarks. I just want to live damnit, and do what it takes to get through life, not live in a cave seperated from a world of people no better than I.
I'm hopin to get a rock band together, will God smite me because I make secular artc that doesnt go along with the bible? I have an interest in RPG gaming, I even make games with a program i have, will i be smited because my game depicts magic?
course your answer would be "no" if im a christian, then you turn around and say, you cant do it anyways.
I cannot praise a God, that in order to be happy in death, you must be miserable on earth because you must conform to his intended lifestyle. live your whole life questioning and judging others in hopes to save them? Then live in high expantency of the end of the world, instead of living in the now exhisting world. Its too freakin much.
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BigToe
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but you DONT have to be miserable. no one is saying you must stop paying attention to science. no one is telling you to stop studying and learning more about the world around you. as a christian you really shouldn't be judging others, and it isn't up to you to save anyone- that is God's job. he'll use you in great ways if only you are willing. God wants you to enjoy your life now- Jesus said that he came that we may have life and have it abundantly. thats not just talking about heaven, but that we can also have heaven here on earth.
no one is telling you that you have to stop playing games that involve violence or magic- some of my fave films have both and they do not present any sort of problem in my walk with God. you don't have to give up the music you like or the food you eat. no one is saying that you can't create the art you create- God gave you that talent, it would be a shame for you not to use it.
no one is saying that to be a christian you must be ultra conservative or republican even.
i promise you that those things you are saying you don't like- they shouldn't have anything to do with your ability to be a christian. there are many many people who do those things and are wonderful christians.
no one is telling you that you have to stop playing games that involve violence or magic- some of my fave films have both and they do not present any sort of problem in my walk with God. you don't have to give up the music you like or the food you eat. no one is saying that you can't create the art you create- God gave you that talent, it would be a shame for you not to use it.
no one is saying that to be a christian you must be ultra conservative or republican even.
i promise you that those things you are saying you don't like- they shouldn't have anything to do with your ability to be a christian. there are many many people who do those things and are wonderful christians.
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William Nunn
Babies enjoy living too!
*Sigh....please excuse some of my posts. they were out of line.
I'm just so sick of how the bible makes everything bad in this world....when some things arent that awful, they may not be good, but they may not be hell worthy. (imo)
Then we act like a freakin cult, by tellin other people to be like us, scaring them into being like us, then were all like......."jesus is coming jesus is coming jesus is coming all who are not us will be punished for eternitiy for their human mistakes." I can never be happy with a religion like that. *
Why are we a cult? Because we believe we are right? Then everybody in the world belongs to a "cult"? The only choice is which one you choose to belong to. And you make it seem like there are so many people out there who have no chance, but if you really look at it, Christianity is the easiest and most forgiving religion in the world. Does God require us to perform rituals to be saved? Be great people? Pray at a certain time or in a certain way? Nope, all we have to do is believe. If people are scared off by something as easy as that, then well, there's just no hope for them.
*Then you tell me God loves me and wants me to be happy, well what if i was happy before this whole mess? Now I'm unhappy because i have to change my whole freakin life, who i was, and dispose of my secular dreams. I get persecuted because I have different ideas.*
I have never met a truly saved Christian who were unhappy with their lives because they had to bypass some secular "dreams". A life with God is so much more fulfilling and rewarding, and anybody who is saved will tell you the same. Sure, we all look back and times and wonder "what if" about certain things, but true repentance and salvation brings a happiness and comfort that nothing else can. The things I thought were so important before I was saved are like ash and dirt to me now compared to the things of the Lord.
*You know we act like the whole world is out to get us because of Satans inlfuence.
That people are evil.
The people around us, are if you havent noticed people just like us. Yes, I and I also mean J. K. Rowling, and the people at Wizards of the Coast making dungeons and dragons, the rock stars on tv, the gamemaking corporations, the people at hollywood. They are just people trying to get through life. They are not trying to hurt anyone, And yet we judge and call them evil?*
Who is judging them and calling them evil? You mean those arrogant pulpit thumpers looking to get on the evening news? Is that who you judge Christians by? That's like me judging all scientists by a guy with a test tube in his basement. Read the Bible. The vast majority of us know that we are no better than anyone else, just that we have surrendered our lives to God.
*God will punish eternaly people who do things to make them happy, and arent saved by jesus, simply because of there skeptism. Its unfair and horrible. BTW, is one reason why i believe christ isnt God in such a literal sense, but thats beside the point cuz we'll get into another horribly long discussion of accusations and cold remarks. I just want to live damnit, and do what it takes to get through life, not live in a cave seperated from a world of people no better than I.*
Where are you getting all this. It sounds now like you are just looking for a reason not to believe. And they aren't saved SIMPLY because of skepticism? I think you are looking at it the wrong way, look at it like this : If there were a bunch of people dying, and you were offering them medicine and great health care ABSOLUTELY FREE, and they spat in your face and said "Screw you, you don't know what's good for me! I don't have to listen to you!" Would it be "horrible and unfair" if those people died? No, they earned it for their skepticism, their unwillingness to learn. Skepticism can be a great thing - it has actually strengthened my faith by forcing me to study some things I saw as inconsistent in the Bible - but skepticism coupled with ignorance and an unwillingness to study and learn the truth - that's what causes people to fall by the wayside. And I have no idea where you got the notion that you had to live in a cave away from everyone. That's a new one to me.
*I'm hopin to get a rock band together, will God smite me because I make secular artc that doesnt go along with the bible? I have an interest in RPG gaming, I even make games with a program i have, will i be smited because my game depicts magic?
course your answer would be "no" if im a christian, then you turn around and say, you cant do it anyways.
I cannot praise a God, that in order to be happy in death, you must be miserable on earth because you must conform to his intended lifestyle. live your whole life questioning and judging others in hopes to save them? Then live in high expantency of the end of the world, instead of living in the now exhisting world. Its too freakin much.*
Your making a bunch of assumptions that simply aren't anywhere near the truth of Christianity. Where in the Bible does anybody say "Thou shalt be smited for the playing of music that does not mention God!" Nowhere. And your assumption that living a Christian lifestyle is a miserable experience shows that you've never truly lived it. I've lived the kind of lifestyle you are talking about - thinking that I should do whatever I wanted and be beholden to nobody. But my time as a Christian has been the most rewarding and amazing experience of my life. You are saying it's wrong to question others? What do you think you are doing right now? And I don't know any Christian who doesn't live in the here and now, but we're just not so focused on it. You should try it, it's fantastic!
You keep on knocking the laws laid down by the Lord as if they are some shackle to make us miserable. Just think of what the world would be like if we could all live by those "unbearable" laws. No jeaoulsy, no strife, everybody would love and help each other. There would be no, or very little, sexually transmitted diseases, no drug abuse, need I go on?
I'm just so sick of how the bible makes everything bad in this world....when some things arent that awful, they may not be good, but they may not be hell worthy. (imo)
Then we act like a freakin cult, by tellin other people to be like us, scaring them into being like us, then were all like......."jesus is coming jesus is coming jesus is coming all who are not us will be punished for eternitiy for their human mistakes." I can never be happy with a religion like that. *
Why are we a cult? Because we believe we are right? Then everybody in the world belongs to a "cult"? The only choice is which one you choose to belong to. And you make it seem like there are so many people out there who have no chance, but if you really look at it, Christianity is the easiest and most forgiving religion in the world. Does God require us to perform rituals to be saved? Be great people? Pray at a certain time or in a certain way? Nope, all we have to do is believe. If people are scared off by something as easy as that, then well, there's just no hope for them.
*Then you tell me God loves me and wants me to be happy, well what if i was happy before this whole mess? Now I'm unhappy because i have to change my whole freakin life, who i was, and dispose of my secular dreams. I get persecuted because I have different ideas.*
I have never met a truly saved Christian who were unhappy with their lives because they had to bypass some secular "dreams". A life with God is so much more fulfilling and rewarding, and anybody who is saved will tell you the same. Sure, we all look back and times and wonder "what if" about certain things, but true repentance and salvation brings a happiness and comfort that nothing else can. The things I thought were so important before I was saved are like ash and dirt to me now compared to the things of the Lord.
*You know we act like the whole world is out to get us because of Satans inlfuence.
That people are evil.
The people around us, are if you havent noticed people just like us. Yes, I and I also mean J. K. Rowling, and the people at Wizards of the Coast making dungeons and dragons, the rock stars on tv, the gamemaking corporations, the people at hollywood. They are just people trying to get through life. They are not trying to hurt anyone, And yet we judge and call them evil?*
Who is judging them and calling them evil? You mean those arrogant pulpit thumpers looking to get on the evening news? Is that who you judge Christians by? That's like me judging all scientists by a guy with a test tube in his basement. Read the Bible. The vast majority of us know that we are no better than anyone else, just that we have surrendered our lives to God.
*God will punish eternaly people who do things to make them happy, and arent saved by jesus, simply because of there skeptism. Its unfair and horrible. BTW, is one reason why i believe christ isnt God in such a literal sense, but thats beside the point cuz we'll get into another horribly long discussion of accusations and cold remarks. I just want to live damnit, and do what it takes to get through life, not live in a cave seperated from a world of people no better than I.*
Where are you getting all this. It sounds now like you are just looking for a reason not to believe. And they aren't saved SIMPLY because of skepticism? I think you are looking at it the wrong way, look at it like this : If there were a bunch of people dying, and you were offering them medicine and great health care ABSOLUTELY FREE, and they spat in your face and said "Screw you, you don't know what's good for me! I don't have to listen to you!" Would it be "horrible and unfair" if those people died? No, they earned it for their skepticism, their unwillingness to learn. Skepticism can be a great thing - it has actually strengthened my faith by forcing me to study some things I saw as inconsistent in the Bible - but skepticism coupled with ignorance and an unwillingness to study and learn the truth - that's what causes people to fall by the wayside. And I have no idea where you got the notion that you had to live in a cave away from everyone. That's a new one to me.
*I'm hopin to get a rock band together, will God smite me because I make secular artc that doesnt go along with the bible? I have an interest in RPG gaming, I even make games with a program i have, will i be smited because my game depicts magic?
course your answer would be "no" if im a christian, then you turn around and say, you cant do it anyways.
I cannot praise a God, that in order to be happy in death, you must be miserable on earth because you must conform to his intended lifestyle. live your whole life questioning and judging others in hopes to save them? Then live in high expantency of the end of the world, instead of living in the now exhisting world. Its too freakin much.
*Your making a bunch of assumptions that simply aren't anywhere near the truth of Christianity. Where in the Bible does anybody say "Thou shalt be smited for the playing of music that does not mention God!" Nowhere. And your assumption that living a Christian lifestyle is a miserable experience shows that you've never truly lived it. I've lived the kind of lifestyle you are talking about - thinking that I should do whatever I wanted and be beholden to nobody. But my time as a Christian has been the most rewarding and amazing experience of my life. You are saying it's wrong to question others? What do you think you are doing right now? And I don't know any Christian who doesn't live in the here and now, but we're just not so focused on it. You should try it, it's fantastic!
You keep on knocking the laws laid down by the Lord as if they are some shackle to make us miserable. Just think of what the world would be like if we could all live by those "unbearable" laws. No jeaoulsy, no strife, everybody would love and help each other. There would be no, or very little, sexually transmitted diseases, no drug abuse, need I go on?
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TheOriginalWhitehorse
Well-Known Member
Christiangamer said:
If it makes you feel any better, I've had a rough week, too. And I used to have the same issue as you did. For example, I'd look at a person I loved and couldn't understand why they were worthy of hell if they weren't saved. But then, as the years progressed and I understood better, God showed me something:
We make judgments on what we see. And, we see very little. God makes judgments on what is right, and He sees, well, everything! He can see inside the heart, and we cannot. We see what people show us. God sees what is in the inside.
Moreover, we judge people on how they treat us. But God judges people on how they interact with their God. And there are always things we don't know. It never was about us, but about God. If you own a puppy you had nothing to do with creating, don't you teach it not to wet the rug, chew your slippers, and drag the garbage out of the can? Why would you presume to tell the puppy what to do, since you didn't create the atoms of which that puppy is made? Then why should God rewuire less of His creation? What are His laws? Don't steal, don't cheat, don't kill. Are these bad requirements?
Also, the things we do down here often have much greater significance in the spirit world, and we know nothing of it. But if we wait, and ask respectfully, and ask God to show us why something is right, and if we seek the answer, He shows us. Try it. If you don't understand why hell is just, God isn't surprised by this. He already knows how you feel. And you've made the first step in the right direction by asking and talking it out. God will bless your efforts.
[/quote]Then we act like a freakin cult, by tellin other people to be like us, scaring them into being like us, then were all like......."jesus is coming jesus is coming jesus is coming all who are not us will be punished for eternitiy for their human mistakes." [/quote]
Well, I don't know if this is the whole picture. Grace comes into it also. But, people have to know, even if the truth is uncomfortable. The discomfort they receive here that draws them into the word so they can be saved is much better than the fear and discomfort of awaiting judgment after it is too late to repent. These things are no different freom what Jesus teaches. And, He also taught the way to be saved. But none of us are perfect in our delivery. We can be too strong sometimes, or too soft in others. But we have this comfort from God: His word never returns void.
Well, God didn't create us so we could make ourselves happy. Don't worry; he has the happiness thing worked out, but that's mostly in the next world. He created us to do His purposes. Now, whether or not we can be happy with a religion and whether or not that religion is true, are two different things. Very important to sort out. If something you're unhappy with happens to be true, that truth isn't going away if you cover your eyes. All it will do is leave you unprepared. But, God does give joy, so maybe there is something else, some other understanding that is troubling you. Why don't we talk about it?
What dreams? Maybe there's something about it you're not seeing. Maybe we can give you some encouragement. Whenever I've been unhappy with the Lord, there was always something I couldn't see. Maybe this is true with you as well.
Well, we do all have sin. And we should have sympathy for those who are under deception or who are perishing. But what you don't see is that these people are often making deliberate choices to rebel against God and to turn others away from the truth that can save. That's worse than murder, because salvation (or the lack thereof) is eternal. Oh, those who destroy the faith of others are doing a great deal of harm, indeed. This is an eternal damage. There's no escaping that. And, they're bringing the nation under judgment with their widespread influence. That's why they will be held in greater account.
Well what did God do to deserve this skepticism? People are that way becauwe of their sin, not because God has ever lied to them. But they want to be God. And, from God's standpooint, can you see what kind of rebellion this is? Would a private in the army ever dream of putting on a uniform with four stars and go parading around as an officer? What do you suppose would become of him if someone discovered he was impersonating an officer? and why would this be so serious? Now, people parade around as if they are God. If this is not tolerated amongst humans, why shoudl God tolerate it?
But the way you want to live won't give you life at all. It's a deception. You can't see it yet, but God most certainly can. Why don't you believe in Christ's divinity?
Friend, God didn't create you and put breath in your lungs for your own purposes. He did it for His. But you're under this impression taht doing things God's way is miserable business, and it isn't. It's better. It is true freedom. Yes, you'll have to make sacrifices. But what you get in return, even in this world, cannot compare to the trinkets this world has to offer. Sin's pleasures are for a moment. In a few yeaars you may see what I mean. How may rock stars have killed themselves, overdosed, caught aids, have had miserable addictions that have cost them their careers, have had selfish worldviews that cost them their marriages, and have finally wondered, what is the point? It doesn't make them happy.
But if you just want to have a band, and rock is the genre that appeals to you, and if you are careful to edify people and use it in a way that is holy, what's wrong with that? God gave you talents. Not only does He not forbid you to use them, He expects you to. That gift is from Him. Just dont' use it to mock the One who gave you that gift. Use your gift. Enjoy it. Revel in it. Just don't put it above the One who gave it to you, any more than you would want to date someone who uses you for what you have, either.
What's wrong with using it in a way that honors the One who put the breath in your lungs, the food on your plate, the computer in your home, and a roof over your head? Reverence to God isn't a burden, but a delight. But you need to gaze at Him long enough to find out why the things God doesn't want you pursuing are bad.
God will give you time. It sounds like there are a lot of issues. God will help you, and He'll show you. He'll give you time. But why would you want to "use" the powers of His enemies, even in a game? This isnt' the only way to have fun, you know. There are lots of other ways to make a game that don't involve that.
course your answer would be "no" if im a christian, then you turn around and say, you cant do it anyways.
I cannot praise a God, that in order to be happy in death, you must be miserable on earth because you must conform to his intended lifestyle. live your whole life questioning and judging others in hopes to save them? Then live in high expantency of the end of the world, instead of living in the now exhisting world. Its too freakin much.
It takes time. God will show you. The christian life, like anything else, is a process. The thing is, it isn't a burden, the way you think it is right now. It's like saying a gourmet food you've never tasted is disgusting because you don't like the name. It may be the best thing you ever had. I was a little skeptical about wild boar, ostrich, and other foods I now crave because they are delicious if they're cooked right. Maybe you just need to spend a little more time in the kitchen, and wait. Give it time. All you need is patience, and a willing spirit.
Love in Christ,
Whitehorse
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Oh no everyone wrote so much I don't know what to write
God is love. God is righteous. We are humans, we are sinners. We spread the hate and spread the love as well. God gave us free will so He doesn't have to force us to love Him. Or else it would be fake. So yes there's sin in this world, and there is magick, because of what we choose to do. But we can also choose God's love. It's not about believing in the Bible, but believing in God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Bible is a way to teach us in life and some are poems, stories, shared to give us hope, acknowledge what how life was back then and what God does expect of us. God is not to blame for what we do. We are responsible for our own actions. I'm not trying to flame you here.
God is love. God is righteous. We are humans, we are sinners. We spread the hate and spread the love as well. God gave us free will so He doesn't have to force us to love Him. Or else it would be fake. So yes there's sin in this world, and there is magick, because of what we choose to do. But we can also choose God's love. It's not about believing in the Bible, but believing in God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Bible is a way to teach us in life and some are poems, stories, shared to give us hope, acknowledge what how life was back then and what God does expect of us. God is not to blame for what we do. We are responsible for our own actions. I'm not trying to flame you here
.
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I didn't read through the whole thread, but as far as the OP goes, I recommend reading the book The Case for Faith: A Journalist Investigates the Toughest Objections to Christianity by Lee Strobel as it has a fairly detailed discussion of a number of the points you mentioned. You might find it helpful or at least food for thought
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hisbloodformysins
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I can kind of relate to you. Why would a good God require so much, unrealistic, yes, and that's why he sent a savior. The bible also says that the law is not meant to save, it's impossible to be saved by it, but to rather convict of sin. And to confirm your faith. How would you know something is sin, even if you had doubts about that thing in your conscience, without it being stated somewhere in God's law. You see, now a new law is at work, and that's being saved by faith through Grace. It's a relationship. You see, christains make the mistake of trying to be perfect and do all these christian things that are required of them in order to earn their salvation, God's favor. I believe this is addressed in Galations when Paul rebukes the Galations for being lead astray to think they have to follow all these laws to be approved. If we could be approved by keeping the law,we wouldn't need a savior. You see, God did know we were going to mess up. But even that has a greater good, why, well, God is wiser than us, you see, yes, God provided a temptation to test adam and eve, if they weren't able to avoid that than they haven't been made perfect yet (that's my own opinion) You see, we grow through suffering, ugg, I know, why did God allow that to happen, well, I think that we'll know very clearly at the end of the world, and will thank him for it. But God Bless you in your struggles with your faith. May you gain the wisdom you seek.
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