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I've lost it....

Christiangamer

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Well, what makes us so right? Some religions are dated back even later than Judaism, (dont think i spelt that right.) Sure we've had so called propheceis come true, and miracles happen. But how do we know were so right as to what caused them. If God wants to smite me for my skeptism, let Him. But my agnotism, stands still, my mind is open, and its staying that way. I will not devout my life to a questionable structure.

To all who read this, go to www.religioustolerance.com You'll learn a lot, and possibly develope some sympathy and understanding to other religions. Especially Wicca, hinduism, and even satanism. yeah, you read me.
 
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TheOriginalWhitehorse

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All it took is one bite out of the appple to delve us into all of this. So simple. Don't touch the apple.

I have a question for you also: what makes man have a right to decide anything about what they believe? What would your parents do if one day you decided you didn't want to believe they were your parents anymore, and you walked up to some telephone pole and said, "This is now my mother" and then fashioned a pole with your own hands and said, "This is my father"?

Either they would take this as a complete sign of hatred and disrespect, or they would take you in for some help.

The difference is, God created you.

Why do you feel this is a matter of choice? The truth is what it is. It's useless arguing against God, denying God, deciding that God is unreasonable...

"Your arms are too short to box with God."

And all He wants is the best for you anyway.
 
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Krazeekkc

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Christiangamer said:
I HATE THE BIBLE. You say it is good news and the christ was born to save. Not to me anyways. It's 2,000 ways to get you to hell, and 1 way to heaven. 1. And I'll tell you what, its impossible. I've been told in order to believe some of it, you must believe it all. No one can seriously believe everything from a book written over 5,000 years by men that could have easily been racists, homophobes, psychos, drunks, crooks. The stories could have been so easily fabricated. 2. I fefuse to take it true. Why? because heaven must be a pretty lonely place. 3. After all, everyone born before christ is in hell. All ancient civilizations during that time were condemned, wether they evolved or not. Thats another thing. 4. We're suppose to deny any discoveries and theories of science that may contradict what the Bible says. 5. I lie awake at night crying because people suffer everynight, then to probably go to hell and suffer more when they die, because they didnt have jesus. Bull poo! Why would God do this to us? He had to have known it would happen eventually. He had to know we'd screw up. It's partially his fault we sinned in the first place. 6. He made us able to! He gives us rules that wether we follow them or not doesnt hurt anybody. Like gays. Sure it aint natural, but can they help it? Oh wait, I'm a christian so i have to assume that they made an evil rebelious decision. Know what else is stupid? 8. In leviticus i think, it says something about it being a sin to were clothing of two different materials. Why the heck would God care? Know what else ticks me off? Magic rules. First Off, i dont believe in the real "Magick." But you people do because they had to make a rule about it in the bible. 9. Why would God even give us the ability to do stuff like that? Why would he make us able to summon lightning bolts from the sky to strike our foes. Why does life have to be this way? He had to make it so ****ing difficult. Why? Things are bad because HE made them bad. 10. Why would he care wether we worshipped him or not? HE'S GOD! He's the head honcho. It's not like you can hurt His pride. If i could i woulda died years ago just so i could go to heaven. Now i dont even know if want to anymore. Not with a God who hates his people. All I can say to Jesus is, "we were friends, till I got to know you." :( So here i am. I guess that jerk from GW forums was right. I'm agnostic. And tho it hurts me, I'd be more hurting as a hypocrite christian.
All i can do is hope that God will forgive me in the end. But I bet the bible says he wont unless I repent.
Goodbye...I'm sorry if i offended you. You were warned. But somebody help me please if you can. Dont send me a bunch of flames. but please feel welcome to PM me if you can help me or give me some sympathy.
1. Why is it impossible?
2. You don't think that God couldn't prtect the Bible?
3. Not according to what I believe.
4. When they go against the Bible they are lies and so we are treat them as such.
5. Everyone gets a chance.
6. He gave us free-will. He doesn't want us to just be zombies and be forced to believe.
7. I wouldn't go as far as an evil rebelious decision but that's not the way God created us.
8. That probably was an example of a teaching. People need wisdom from God to help them understand it.
9. God doesn't but the Satan does.
10. Because He wanted us to love Him and to declare that love to Him through worship. most people think of like idol worship. Instead of sending God your love through worship it's thought more as something else.

I hoped that helped you. :prayer:
 
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Krazeekkc

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Christiangamer said:
1. I like being a rebel, partying and drinking, looking at girls (sorry ladies), violent videogames, rock music. I can't help I dont want to. God made things illegal, now if a person sins and isn't and never becomes a christian, away to hell they go. 2. Great people could be getting murdered everyday without second chances. I just can't believe in this. I want to, but then again i dont
goodbye.
1. I like being a rebel too. Partying is ok. Drinking to a certain extent is ok. Looking at girls, no. Violent video games, not the best thing. Oh, and I absolutely love rock!

2. I don't believe that either.
 
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Krazeekkc

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Christiangamer said:
Sigh....You dont get it.

1. You give me all these things that the bible says. That aint helpin. I hate the bible...sure its full of good advice but for the most part it sucks. You people keep saying its "word of GOD" No, it's not. It's words man has put in God's mouth. We have no real solid unquestionable proof of its validity. And personally, if there is, i dont want to know.

2. Plus you all misunderstood me when I said i like to sin. You make it seem like I'm A wild child when I'm not. Sure I drink and party, occasionally. But that doesnt mean its the most important thing in my life. I work hard and go to school and make honor roll. I participate in 4-H and even go to church, sorta regularly. If i make a mistake, im prepared to face the worldly consequences, and will learn from my mistakes.

3. Whats this **** about satan whispering in my ear. OMGosh, thats so lame and corny. There are lots of hethans in this world that live good lives, successful and happy. Just because of there beliefs and skepticism they must go to Hell? Bull. What about pagan religions like Hindu, and Wicca, ( which is just a revival of the ancient celtic religion). They have people that live Good decent lives, happily and loving. They care for the world around them, watch out for one another, try to live whats they think is right. Is THAT evil? Yet they burn in hell? Then God's a jerk

4. I'm not going to be part of religion anymore that pretty much hates everything about the world around them, judges everyone, thinks with there bibles instead of there brains, (President Bush...for example) and try to force there livestyle upon everyone else in order to "SAVE" them, judging things as "christian" or "evil", blaming bad things on everything but themselves.
Living is hard enough, we often live in pain and despair, only for most to live that way eternally.

5. If God wants to eternally smite me for standing up for the others in His world,
then may he. I can't stop Him.
IN the mean time, I'm agnostic.
PS. No, I was not a new christian, born and raised methodist, "Saved" in the sixth grade. Now a sympathetic hethen, because I realized the coldness of my religion.

BTW, I'm not normally a jerk like this, I am very sympathetic to my former religion and respect those in it, but because of the preceeding personal problems with it, Im no longer part of it.
1. I think God can handle watching out for the Bible.
2. Drinking and partying to a certain extent is fine!
3. God gives them a simple choice.
4. I don't hate all of the world around me. (I especially like Europe) No one is suppose to be judging each other. I think with both my Bible and my brain and they make a wonderful combo! Also, I hate Bush!!!! (I wanted Gore to win) Bush I believe isn't a Christian. I'm 99.9% sure. Just a liar, trying get all of the gullable Christians and have them all for him. Also, we aren't suppose to force it upon anyone but sadly that doesn't happen all the time.
5. No, He doesn't want to smite you.

Hope that helped. :prayer:
 
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Krazeekkc

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Christiangamer said:
Well, what makes us so right? Some religions are dated back even later than Judaism, (dont think i spelt that right.) Sure we've had so called propheceis come true, and miracles happen. But how do we know were so right as to what caused them. If God wants to smite me for my skeptism, let Him. But my agnotism, stands still, my mind is open, and its staying that way. I will not devout my life to a questionable structure.
Well, prophecies have come true and are coming true. Also, there is the small part that Christians can feel Him. But you don't count that do you?
 
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Deamiter

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Perhaps I can clear something up right now. Popular Christianity is not the Christianity of Jesus! And that should be obvious - as we condemn homosexuals, condemn those who misread Genesis (coming from an Old Earth Creationist) and we condemn all other religions where we SHOULD be loving them (as Paul did)! If you know anything about Wiccan culture, you can see the exact same thing. Though Wicca is VERY open in it's practice, there are COUNTLESS teenagers who are simply professing Wicca so they can be cool. They get sky high on drugs, have sex, and the religion becomes a good excuse for all of it. When I was involved in Wicca, we called those people mimics, because they pretended for social reasons. This should not detract from those that study and follow Wicca as a true religion of peace - rather than as a status symbol. It's exactly the same with Christianity. I can't in good faith condemn these Christians simply because I disagree - that would be just as bad. However, I can study the Bible daily, and with other wise teachers, and I can identify and avoid the inconsistancies by using the brain that God gave me!

Paul makes it painfully clear that the nitpicky laws in the Old Testament are not NECESSARY for a saving faith. He said that as God's law, it is still right for Jews to follow it, but it would make no sense to have all gentiles circumsized, much less wearing only certain cloth etc... God created us with intelligence so we CAN observe his universe! With an open mind, I find it entirely possible that the world IS 6000 years old, but the evidence points in another direction. Nowhere in the Bible does it instruct us to ignore creation in favor of our interpretation of the Bible!

I am pained to see your distaste for the Bible - as it seems to me that you are responding negatively to the **** that comes up in the Christian church - people run with a specific message of the Bible, and forget that the Bible MUST be taken as a whole! To read ONLY the New Testament makes NO SENSE because everything in the New Testament was preached in the Old Testament context! God did not change between testaments...

There is so much here... but I don't think that logic is what you're looking for. I can assure you - as a born-again believe, that your searching is not sinful. Paul writes that God's truth is written on all people's hearts, and that ignorance is no excuse for sin. That suggests to me that everybody has a chance at heaven. Of COURSE it's through Christ - we only have ONE God, and all were saved through Christ who was with us before creation. As a Christian, it is not my place to condemn (as some have) non-believers. This is VERY unbiblical! The OT prophets condemned the JEWS for slipping up, and Jesus condemned the Jewish leaders for not recognising the culmination of their scripture. Nowhere is a suffering muslim condemned because he or she couldn't get past the horrific crimes Christians have comitted in the past! They are not automatically saved, but the Bible is NOT clear about who will be in heaven.

As for God being a jerk - I truly believe that EVERYBODY, Christians and non-Christians alike, will look God in the face when they die. Then God will ask them if they are for or against Him. The question is, "are you willing to give up your life, of your own free will, to your loving and merciful creator?" Those that say no, will be ALLOWED to go to hell. They will lock the door from the inside, and they will live forever without love BECAUSE THEY CHOSE IT.

That is the God that I serve. I am constantly seeking answers - and I was once where you are. However, I kept seeking, and I believe that I am finding the truth in my search. Believing because you are told to, or because you're scared of Heaven deny the basic principle that God IS love. He is not a mixture of love and hate, or of love and sadness... All the emotions can be contained in love, but ultimately God loves all of us. THAT is the message of the Bible, and it is THIS Biblical God that I serve.
 
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TheOriginalWhitehorse

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Well, it's true that popular Christianity isn't the Christianity of the Bible. But it's clear that we must have trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, there is no other religion or way, and we must forsake sin.

Christian Gamer, we're very concerned for you. We care, and we just want to see you through this.

Would it be easier for you to talk about why it's hard for you to give up the things that stand between you and God? Maybe if we get to the root of the issue, it will make it easier. Sometimes it helps just to talk about it. Plus, if you put faith in God, He will remove those things. It's a sure promise from the Lord. It may take time. But just be patient and keep fighting.

But whatever happens, please don't forsake your faith.
 
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BigToe

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You're right about a lot of today's "christians". A ton of them seem to be brain dead- they ignore scientific discoveries and judge anyone who is different than themselves. But you know what? No one is perfect and that is certainly NOT what Christ stood for. You are allowed to be christian and believe the world is 4.6 billion years old- no one should tell you you cant. You are allowed to be christian and study biology or astronomy, to learn about other religions, to even *heaven forbid* have compasison for the world around you. You hit the nail on the head. Jesus said the two most important things (out of the commandments mind you) were to love God and love others. You say you still believe in God- so you have that first part under control. And from what you are saying, it sounds like you love those around you. It sounds like you have compassion for those who many refuse to listen to. You can be christian and do all that. In fact, its something ALL christians SHOULD do.

You like violent video games- that doesn't mean you can't be a christian- I like violent movies.

You like to look at girls- are you hurting anyone? are you making anyone uncomfortable? are you invading anyone's personal space? no one is saying you can't look at girls and think they are pretty.

You like rock- hun, i rarely EVER listen to "christian bands". they rarely ever have the "sounds" that appeal to me- and the lyrics have nothing to do with why i listen to the bands i do. you are allowed to like death metal and still be a christian.

you like to drink- the only problem with that is that you are under the legal drinking age.

there are billions of ways of being a rebel. and lots of them have nothing to do with if you can or cannot be a christian. keep your heart and your mind open.

but remember, this is a decision that comes down to you and god. no one else can make that choice for you.
 
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Christiangamer

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Sigh, I'm trying. I know you care. But how can we be sure we are right?
How can like 20 religions be so wrong. Sure I've felt "Gods touch" But how do we know its not just some mental euphoria? I still believe miracles happen, because of a higher inteligence. "God" But i think a lot of amazing things happen just because of coincidences in nature....thats just my theory.

BTW, magick, we blame satan for answering these spells, which BTW are nothing more than prayers to pagan gods for a desired result. Why would God give satan the ability to do this? So that ignorant people can be secretly drawn farther away until some jack chick thumping jerk can come up and give them a preachy speech on the evils they do.
I was once in the place of some of you nicer more sympathetic people, but i was told even by the pastor of my church (im methodist btw) that in order to believe any of it, i must believe all of it.
What makes you think God was protecting the bible? Lots of BS in his name took place, did He do anything to stop it? No, KNow why? It would ubstruct free will. So much **** could have been put into the bible. Trust me, i was once very christian. It wasnt just my attachments to sin. You know so many "bad" things in this world can actually be benifets to society. For example tobacco and alcohol. Potentially very dangerous, yet look at how they helped the development of our nation, giving jobs to millions of people, giving things to do socially on weekends. Porn and adult clubs, may be dirty and can ruin relationships. But single people dont have anything to lose. It provides jobs to "dumb" people, it helps economy! If there werent pagan religions, we wouldnt have some of our favorite holiday traditions, some traditions of christmas, holloween, did i miss anything?
Religion brings so much argument and debate and flaming that often hurts society. We are supposed to be a united nation, yet were divided because of our diversity in beliefs. We flame eachother over what makes us happy....weather its for ten minutes or ten years.
 
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NoneyaBiznezz

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You ask a lot of valid questions, I don't have all the answers. Only God does. I do know this, Jesus Christ died for our sins. All of them. You talk about the benefits given to our nation from tobacco, alcohol, etc..Do you have any idea how many blessings we have had to give up because of those things? Only God knows. I have heard and read many opinions about the validity of different religions. While I struggle in my own beliefs and have very simular questions to yours of my own, I choose to listen to God. As to the validity of the Bible, the truths contained in the text I have no doubt were inspired by God. There is ample debate about the meaning of these truths. Don't allow the debate to draw a line in the sand. Every man has an opinion, every man will make mistakes.

Every decision has it's own consequences. Every decision is not always clear cut. Every person has to make up their own mind as to what they believe. I choose to believe that the sacrifice of a truly sinless person was payment for us all. When people are confronted with the reality of heaven and hell when they die, some will be saved and some will not be. I believe that God can forgive quite a bit as long as some one is repentant.

Man will always error. Pray for the answers you want, God is listening. All you have to do is ask. Be patient for the answers, they will not come to you over night but they will come. Recognize that the world is an ugly place. It is good, evil and every step between. "People will always fall short of the grace God."

God loves you, loves your neighbor and God oves the guy down the street. It is what we choose to do with this love that matters.

Religion is a very personal issue and therefor brings out the best and worst in all of us. Just look at the example set by the Hijackers of 9/11. They truly believed in the cause they died for. Will they goto heaven? Only God knows....

I am rambling to much, don't give yourself such a headache. I am sure God will reveal himslef to you if you ask. It took me a long time to ask but when I did, he answered.

May God bless you and guide you,

-Brian
 
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William Nunn

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*Sigh, I'm trying. I know you care. But how can we be sure we are right?*

The best answer to this is, explore the other options. See if other religions or other beliefs make sense to you. I went through a long period of doubt, but I found that my doubt was based on the fact that I had no real knowledge of the Bible or the alternatives. I explored Hinuism, Bhuddism, being a Muslim, and other less mainstream alternatives, but I found that nothing made as much common sense in the context of the world around me. Study brother, study everything. Read the Koran. Study Bhuddism. My knowledge of the alternatives out there not only didn't weaken my faith, it strengthened it immesnsely. And this may not help you much at this stage, but I know God is with me. As much as I know anybody is with me. God isn't a metaphor, or some vague idea - he is next to me at all times.

*How can like 20 religions be so wrong. Sure I've felt "Gods touch" But how do we know its not just some mental euphoria? I still believe miracles happen, because of a higher inteligence. "God" But i think a lot of amazing things happen just because of coincidences in nature....thats just my theory.*

How can 20 religions be wrong? If they are the product of a human mind, they can always be wrong. If you look into many religions and study their origins, you will be highly dubious of their truth. I won't name any in particular so as not to offend, but it helps to actually study.

*BTW, magick, we blame satan for answering these spells, which BTW are nothing more than prayers to pagan gods for a desired result. Why would God give satan the ability to do this? So that ignorant people can be secretly drawn farther away until some jack chick thumping jerk can come up and give them a preachy speech on the evils they do.*

You are assuming that people are ignorant. The Bible tells us that nobody is ignorant, merely rebellious - the heavens declare the glory of God so nobody has an excuse. If someone gives themselves over to Satan, then yes, he can apparently grant them certain abilities sometimes. Who knows why God allows this. But it seems I hear this all too often - why does God allow this? Why doesn't God do something? I think a more appropriate question would be, why don't we stop this? Why don't we just obey the Lord?

*I was once in the place of some of you nicer more sympathetic people, but i was told even by the pastor of my church (im methodist btw) that in order to believe any of it, i must believe all of it.
What makes you think God was protecting the bible? Lots of BS in his name took place, did He do anything to stop it? No, KNow why? It would ubstruct free will.*

Sure, lots of bad things took place in the name of the Lord, very evil things. But the Lord warned us that this would happen - and told us to be on guard for it. I mean, He specifically told us that their would be evil done by those who professed to know Him. And again, no, he didn't do anything to stop it, but look at it this way : Say that you are a parent and you have a child who you have warned repeatedly not to have sex before marriage. You've tried your hardest to teach them the proper way to live. Now, when they go out and have sex and concieve a child, do you think it's right for them to come back to the parent and say "Why didn't you stop me from doing this? Why didn't you chain me to the bed?" It's the same thing with God and us. We are His children, and He has given us all the warning and teaching we could ever want. But we disobey His commands and then accuse Him of slacking when bad things happen.

*So much **** could have been put into the bible. Trust me, i was once very christian. It wasnt just my attachments to sin. You know so many "bad" things in this world can actually be benifets to society. For example tobacco and alcohol. Potentially very dangerous, yet look at how they helped the development of our nation, giving jobs to millions of people, giving things to do socially on weekends. Porn and adult clubs, may be dirty and can ruin relationships. But single people dont have anything to lose. It provides jobs to "dumb" people, it helps economy! If there werent pagan religions, we wouldnt have some of our favorite holiday traditions, some traditions of christmas, holloween, did i miss anything?*

Yes, bad things can have some small benefits - or what seem like benefits. All the benefits you listed are monetary, which has been proven not to bring happiness. My father died of lung cancer, so any benefit that tobacco has brought to this country (again, only money benefits) is like ashes and rags to me - as I'm sure it is to many who've lost a loved one to cancer from years of smoking. And single people don't have anything to lose from porn and adult clubs? Go to the forum for porn addiction under the Men section to see that it's not the case. And alcohol? Sure, it's been beneficial monetarily, to SOME people, but how many families and lives have been ruined by it?
The only benefits I can see to those things is money, which does not bring happiness, rather , when it is your main focus, brings strife, division, and misery.
*
Religion brings so much argument and debate and flaming that often hurts society. We are supposed to be a united nation, yet were divided because of our diversity in beliefs. We flame eachother over what makes us happy....weather its for ten minutes or ten years.*

Religion doesn't bring those things - ignorant people do. IF we didn't have religion, people would still be divided. Race, money, politics, the color of the sky, people will find anything to fight and strive over.
 
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TheOriginalWhitehorse

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Dear Christian Gamer,

The first thing I want you to know, is that you're not alone. Everyone who is a seasoned Christian goes through these very same questions you're asking. When we ask them, it may feel like we're alone, or the first person who has asked them, or it at least weighs on us like we're the first person who has asked them. These are important questions, and there are answers for them. Understanding just takes time, so please give yourself time to work through them. We will be here as a support for you.

All I'm saying is to not to run out because you have questions. The best thing to do is seek the answers, which is exactly what you're doing right now, and wait patiently on the Lord. You've made the right decision.

In the future, you will have questions again. God will bring you through them all, one by one. All you have to do is to wait patiently and seek. This is one area of life where you don't want to become a casualty.

For starters, there are two areas where false religion begins. And I will show you later how they are false. But this is a huge topic we're embarking on, so let's begin with this.

These areas are the spirit world (the battle raging from fallen spirits we call demons, which you already know), and the human heart.

Let's take a look at that original sin again, because we can see the fingerprints of it all over our own lives and in the world around us. It's a desire to be sovereign where only God, as creator, has the right to be. We can see it in postmodernism, the logical impossibility that has been handed down through colleges and universities as a result of this original sin. A deisre to pick what reality is and actually think we can make it happen by believing it. The desire to live life the way it makes sense to us, even though we don't have the supernatural faculties to see five minutes into the future. We can only predict by what we see right now.

And, it's the idea that there is any option to escape God's rulership. This is why false ods are made. It's man making his own religion. It's the after effects of original sin. It's man wanting to be divine, or find the divine on their own terms, or to makse sense of things through their own desires and perspectives. But I don't want this post to be unbearably long, so I will add to it later.

Please ask any questions you have, too.

Love in Christ,
Whitehorse
 
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BigToe

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Actually there are lots of Christians that don't "believe it all" in the way that some do. Many denominations believe a lot of it is more figurative story telling to get a bigger idea across than if it told facts. The thing is, just as you are learning and studying about other religions, you should so the same with Christianity. Look into different churches and denominations and schools of thought. God will show you what fits you like a glove- you just have to go on that journey with him to find it.
 
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TheOriginalWhitehorse

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Well, the problem is, just because people believe different things doesn't mean they are valid. THis young man is looking to hang onto the truth, and I'd be very careful not to encourage him to seek other religions that will bring harm to his soul. The support forum is a Christian Only forum, and so we need to stand by God as the authority, not human beings. Searching inside ourselves for truth about the supernatural only makes us the authority, the god if you will, and it cannot lead to truth. It can lead to likeable beliefs, but not to truth, and only the truth has the power to save. Because we in ourselves don't have the truth about God, who we cannot see or hear. He is the authority on Himself. Any time people look inside themselves, they aren't looking for what is true, but for what they like and want. And what are the consequences of that when those personal beliefs disagree with the truth God has revealed? That is when we are in touch with the truth, is when the Holy Spirit dwells inside and opens up His word. Many people come to Christianity the same way they go to other religions. Smorgasbord style. A bit of this and a dab of that and a taste of what's in that bowl.

But, at what cost?
 
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Christiangamer

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Okay, so now we blame adam and eve for screwin up for us? As one who believes in evolution, i find it very likely that other people may have been around sooner. We call evolution a lie? Why? Because we have such attachment to a freakin book.....written by people WHO WERENT THEIR! Moses lived 2,000 years later supposedly. What did he know? Did God sit him down for like 20 days straight and tell him to write a direct quote from Gods very lips? Its very possible that other religions came around befor us....and I mean the jewish faith from which we came. Do you think entire empires and civilizations developed just from renegades in a matter of years? Adam and eve were not alone! How about the kains wife for example? And get this, God put a mark on kains forehead so he wouldnt be harmed by others. Who? Tell me, if adam and even and kain were alone? And what about the flood? Noah had to have every kind of animal. He lived in what is now proably iraq. Thats a very small part of the world. If the entire world was flooded, we wouldnt have animals in deserted places like the arctic, australia, theyda all died. We live blindly in faith and blame all who are different of being rebelious or decieved by Satan. Why dont you people read up on Darwin and stuff? Learn his story and what he wrote. Will he sound so crazy then? He knew the bible front and back! He had a degree in theology. Our very religion could have been created just like any other. How do we know were prayin to the right God? Heck, our prayers could have been answered by a different higher intelligence. Or worse, there may be no God, and were all just crazy!:cry:
 
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