I've got it! I know what Evolution is missing and I'm not going to tell...

[Gottservant]

It's not a great Christian example.

You have confused my asking about Evolution, as if it is the same thing as believing in Christianity.

Thankyou for bringing to light, the basic problem of identification that comes with "Evolution": I do not want to be refused meaning, in life, because I do not believe in Evolution.

I am willing to work with Evolution, up to the point that we understand the choice it gives us, but not before - if you plan to box me in because of Evolution, you are part of the problem.

 

[SelfSim]

I am interested to know what you think treating Evolution as a force, does for that force?

Easy .. Evolution is not a force.

It seems spurious to me, that you want "Evolution" to be respected as an expression of physics, in the context of a biology - when as we all know, other properties are quantized and recontextualised in the light of the theory that goes with them.

Biological evolution works within the context of the laws of thermodynamics .. there's ya Physics .. right there.

Perhaps we should be looking at the context, in which there are too many alternatives, to employ for a given selection pressure, and how Evolution deals, with that?

Say natural selection acts to propagate a functioning neutral buoyancy swim bladder in a fish (the bladder popped into existence - ie: say, its a dominant gene mutation). A worm or bacterium can then take up residence in that swim bladder. The swim bladder then becomes a new niche for that worm or bacterium. In this example, the biosphere has actually created the niche and thence, its own future possibilities for organisms such as the evolving worm or bacterium species.
The biosphere generates its own future possibilities there .. it becomes virtually self propagating!

That's also an example of how a given pressure from natural selection can act to create new opportunities for evolving organisms .. and how evolution then even propagates itself, in that given situation.

 

[Gottservant]

I don't know who you're replying to, nor what you are talking about.
You were implying that WE are dogs and cannot be given "what is holy" - although a new idea/discovery about evolution is not holy.

To be fair, my reply was more to the user "Warden of the South".

I am saying, I can be humbled to the point of a dog.

As for claiming Evolution cannot be holy - I disagree.

 

[Strong in Him]

You have confused my asking about Evolution, as if it is the same thing as believing in Christianity.

Thankyou for bringing to light, the basic problem of identification that comes with "Evolution": I do not want to be refused meaning, in life, because I do not believe in Evolution.

I am willing to work with Evolution, up to the point that we understand the choice it gives us, but not before - if you plan to box me in because of Evolution, you are part of the problem.

I'm not boxing anyone in.
I don't care whether you accept evolution or not; it's nothing to do with whether or not someone can be a Christian and accept Jesus.

I was challenging your "I've discovered something and I'm not going to tell you" attitude - and the verse you quoted implying that everyone else is a dog.
Especially as you then ask us to treat YOU like a dog.

 

[Gottservant]

Easy .. Evolution is not a force.

Yet you claim it is an "effectual" belief (worth believing). Which is basically subterfuge.

Biological evolution works within the context of the laws of thermodynamics .. there's ya Physics .. right there.

Works within, or through? Boundaries continue to be important, no?

Say natural selection acts to propagate a functioning neutral buoyancy swim bladder in a fish (the bladder popped into existence - ie: say, its a dominant gene mutation). A worm or bacterium can then take up residence in that swim bladder. The swim bladder then becomes a new niche for that worm or bacterium. In this example, the biosphere has actually created the niche and thence, its own future possibilities for organisms such as the evolving worm or bacterium species.
The biosphere generates its own future possibilities there .. it becomes virtually self propagating!

That's also an example of how a given pressure from natural selection can act to create new opportunities for evolving organisms .. and how evolution then even propagates itself, in that given situation.

Yes but answer the question: what happens to Evolution when there is an abundance of alternatives, to pursue? What happens when you are in Evolutional paradise, so to speak??

 

[Gottservant]

I'm not boxing anyone in.
I don't care whether you accept evolution or not; it's nothing to do with whether or not someone can be a Christian and accept Jesus.

I was challenging your "I've discovered something and I'm not going to tell you" attitude - and the verse you quoted implying that everyone else is a dog.
Especially as you then ask us to treat YOU like a dog.

Bro, I am trying to make a point.

If you can't see dog as anything but an insult, the plank is in your eye not mine?

If the plank was in my eye, I would be saying "you have to prove that my being a dog, is more evolved than being an ape"??

 

[Strong in Him]

Bro, I am trying to make a point.

If you can't see dog as anything but an insult, the plank is in your eye not mine?

You do realise that in Jesus' day, "dog" was a derogatory term for Gentile, and that Gentiles were not God's children, and were unclean?

If the plank was in my eye, I would be saying "you have to prove that my being a dog, is more evolved than being an ape"??

That makes no sense at all.
I didn't even mention evolution, I was talking about Scripture.

 

[Gottservant]

You do realise that in Jesus' day, "dog" was a derogatory term for Gentile, and that Gentiles were not God's children, and were unclean?

It's not wrong to call someone a dog, if they humble themselves in the way of a dog.

That makes no sense at all.
I didn't even mention evolution, I was talking about Scripture.

Scripture is being used in this context, to elucidate the value of faith,, in an Evolutionary context.

I don't know why you are trying to stop me applying scripture to a theory that exists within the English lexicon the same way scripture does, but it is not helping.

The point of discussion, remains developing an intelligent adaptation to the value of a theory claimed to be "Evolution".

 

[Strong in Him]

I don't know why you are trying to stop me applying scripture to a theory that exists within the English lexicon the same way scripture does, but it is not helping.

I'm not; do what you like.

I am saying that I find your whole "I've discovered something but I'm not telling YOU" attitude to be childish and unnecessary.

Carry on arguing.

 

[SelfSim]

Yet you claim it is an "effectual" belief (worth believing).

Nope .. not so.

Works within, or through? Boundaries continue to be important, no?

Thermodynamics laws can be extended to include evidenced applicable contexts.

Yes but answer the question: what happens to Evolution when there is an abundance of alternatives, to pursue? What happens when you are in Evolutional paradise, so to speak??

Diversification

 

[Gottservant]

I'm not; do what you like.

I am saying that I find your whole "I've discovered something but I'm not telling YOU" attitude to be childish and unnecessary.

Carry on arguing.

Yes but its the dead same thing, they are saying to me?

You can't understand that drives a person crazy.

And your love to me, is to tell me to shut up? Perhaps only as a subtext to your words, but painfully all the same.

 

[Gottservant]

Nope .. not so.
Thermodynamics laws can be extended to include evidenced applicable contexts.
Diversification

And is the diversity safe in numbers, or better pursued predatorally?

 

[Gottservant]

Seriously, treat me as a dog and this will go a whole lot smoother.

 

[SelfSim]

I'm outta here .. adios!

 

[Gottservant]

I'm outta here .. adios!

Go with joy, go with happiness.

Don't look back to the Evolution, you were never good enough at anyway.

We are all free, to take charge of our life, the way we see fit, to begin with...

 

[Gottservant]

I've got it.

What's missing is the humanity, of the theory of Evolution: in the Bible it talks about the struggle it is to keep the words of Jesus - how it's hard and repetitive and not what you expect.

Paul the Apostle says "who will free me from this body of death, for what I want to do, I do not do, but what I do not want to do, that I do" - there is no possible assertion that the struggle to believe, is just going to fade away, during this life.

Jesus said "when you've lost everything in this life, if you've done it for Me, then you will get it all back, including persecutions' (my italics) - in other words, even if we are rewarded in this life, with what we had before, we will still have to struggle with it.

So what is it that is hard to grasp and do something about, in Evolution? What would make Evolution a struggle, if for example, "mutation" is no struggle.

This should point to the efficacy, of what you believe,, no matter the subject (or theory).

 

[Strong in Him]

Yes but its the dead same thing, they are saying to me?

You can't understand that drives a person crazy.

So why do the same yourself?

And your love to me, is to tell me to shut up? Perhaps only as a subtext to your words, but painfully all the same.

I wasn't - I was simply saying that "I've made a discovery but I'm not going to tell you", is pointless and rather unhelpful. It was made 10x worse by you saying that you were not going to give what is holy to dogs.

On a slightly different note, I do wonder why you are obsessed with evolution.
This is GOD's world and he created it - Genesis tells us. HOW he created it is a different matter, but the Gospel is not dependent on that.

 

[Gottservant]

So why do the same yourself?

Why? Because there is a chance that in exchanging one concept for another (concept), I will learn to have differentiated between what Evolution applies to, and what it applies for?

I wasn't - I was simply saying that "I've made a discovery but I'm not going to tell you", is pointless and rather unhelpful. It was made 10x worse by you saying that you were not going to give what is holy to dogs.

I don't get it. You seem to be confident that I have chosen the subject of this thread - I did not choose, but the Holy Spirit within me chose.

On a slightly different note, I do wonder why you are obsessed with evolution.
This is GOD's world and he created it - Genesis tells us. HOW he created it is a different matter, but the Gospel is not dependent on that.

Like I said, Evolution drives me crazy and I am trying to learn to cope.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I'm like a dog: once I have been trained to detect a certain scent, my instinct can be reinforced by letting me play with the scent - I am not going to let go, as long as I am able to keep playing with it (the scent).

Your response is "the dog can't bite, what the pack won't play with".

I find this disingenuous, but I don't think you're doing it deliberately: you are basically underdeveloped in the skill of relating - not because you are innately bad at it, you just haven't trusted the Holy Spirit to show you what things really mean.

Treat me like a dog, train me to sense what you mean by Evolution.

You're just being nonsensical and willfully refusing to learn and understand what people try to show you when you are shown to be wrong.

You aren't a dog, because at least the dog has the excuse that it is a dog.

 

[Gottservant]

I've been thinking about this: are you (Evolutionists) saying that no matter how you adapt in future, you will always find climbing trees more naturally than any other species, with the exception of monkeys, with whom you share the claim?