I've Failed At Diplomacy!!!!!

[Cribstyl]

This is where the actual confusion comes in. The first Christians were Jews. The Jews were given the sabbath. So yes, I can show you where Christians were told to keep the sabbath, since it was already part of their understanding.

You try to seperate Christians from Jews as if the two weren't one in the same in the days of the apostles. They didn't have "gentile" Christians and then "Jewish" Christians. There was to be one fold, just as Christ said. That fold was to include gentiles that were to be brought in.

The confusion seems to be coming from you, by ignoring the facts written in the scriptures.
If there was no distinction of Jews from Gentiles, "why did Peter reveal to the Jerusalem council that Gentiles would first hear the gospel from his mouth?
Act 15:7-9.



Anyone who reads Acts 15 completely, can see that the apostles convened because the Jewish Christians (who were not sent out by the apostles) were preaching to the incoming Gentiles that they needed to keep the law of Moses (sabbath included) and be circumcized.

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6¶And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.


Act 15:24Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:

Here are scriptures saying "they gave no such command" that the Gentiles must keep the law........ SO please clear this all up for us by posting a text where Gentiles are commanded to keep the sabbath or any part of the law?

You know, I've never been able to follow this "time of the gentiles" prophetic thing. You do realize that in Revelation, when it talks about the court being given over to the Gentiles, that it's talking about the wicked right?

Actually it's a prophecy that Jesus gave about when the other nations will come in. Luk 21:24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The fact is; even Jesus said He came specifically to those of the tribe of Israel.
Mat 15:24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


The fact is; it is written in John's gospel that Jew rejected Him; Jhn 1:11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Jhn 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

I won't try to sell you on anything. I would like you to explain to me what it is that John saw in Revelation 11:19

Too many issues on the table.

 

[Stryder06]

The confusion seems to be coming from you, by ignoring the facts written in the scriptures.
If there was no distinction of Jews from Gentiles, "why did Peter reveal to the Jerusalem council that Gentiles would first hear the gospel from his mouth?

Who's ignoring what Crib? Were the first Christians Jew's or not? Were the Jews stewards of God's law yes or no?

Anyone who reads Acts 15 completely, can see that the apostles convened because the Jewish Christians (who were not sent out by the apostles) were preaching to the incoming Gentiles that they needed to keep the law of Moses (sabbath included) and be circumcized.

Here are scriptures saying "they gave no such command" that the Gentiles must keep the law........ SO please clear this all up for us by posting a text where Gentiles are commanded to keep the sabbath or any part of the law?

Crib, stop it. Please. It hurts. The law of God contained commandments 1-3 and 5-10. The laws regarding not eating flesh offered to idols, and that were strangled comes from the law of Moses.

Actually it's a prophecy that Jesus gave about when the other nations will come in.
The fact is; even Jesus said He came specifically to those of the tribe of Israel.

Doesn't take away from the fact that Jesus said there would be one fold. That fold would be gentiles brought into the Jewish people and thus becoming part of Israel.

The fact is; it is written in John's gospel that Jew rejected Him;

Peter was a Jew. did he reject Christ? What about John? Let's not pretend like we don't know what is meant by the Jew's rejecting Him.

Too many issues on the table.

On the contrary. I believe that this goes to the heart of the issue. You believe the law was done away with no? If that's is indeed the case why was John shown the Ark of the Covenant in heaven?

 

[Cribstyl]

Who's ignoring what Crib? Were the first Christians Jew's or not? Were the Jews stewards of God's law yes or no?

Your arguments are saying Jews was the first Christians, you're implying that they kept the law and taught the law. I'm posting text of Peter saying... "God chose me to be the first to preach to the Gentiles. Act 15:7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Then James said;
Act 15:13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Stryder, you're not applying the facts to wisdom to know when God turned to the Gentiles with the gospel.


Act 15:15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 15:16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

This context actually teach us that the apostles did not send anyone to teach the law. So Yes, you're ignoring what is being said, just so you can reason away the facts without posting scriptures.

Your'e arguing that Jews keep the law and only the law of Moses was done away with. Your truth is reasoning based on spin from certain isolated text. You have no choice but to hide from what I'm presenting.....You're not facing up or refuting my arguments, you're just making new arguments.

Crib, stop it. Please. It hurts. The law of God contained commandments 1-3 and 5-10. The laws regarding not eating flesh offered to idols, and that were strangled comes from the law of Moses.

Is that your final answer Stryder?

 

[Cribstyl]

You have to ignor the gospel to be able to preach "the confusion" that the law is the new covenant from God.

How can you argue about a creation instituted law for all humanity when the scriptures say that Gentiles were aliens and strangers of God's covenants? YES, a creation instituted sabbath would have been nothing less than a covenant from God say that every human would have to keep the sabbath or kaboom.

God said that the covenant He made at Sinai was not not made with the fathers before. (SDA have to argue that Abraham had the ten commandments using commentary about creation instituted law and sabbath.)
Deu 5:3The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, [even] us, who [are] all of us here alive this day.


Moses said "....Look back to creation and tell me if any nation had this law before? "
Deu 4:8And what nation [is there so] great, that hath statutes and judgments [so] righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

John said (without the prophetic imagery of Revelations,) that the law was given by Moses.
Jhn 1:17For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
What should I believe?


Jesus said that Moses gave the Law.
Jhn 7:19Did not Moses give you the law, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
What should I believe?

Paul said the law came 430 yrs after the promise.
Gal 3:17And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
What should I believe?



SDA have to confuse Paul's teaching, because he said, the law was added to the Abrahamic covenant because of trangressions of the COI after the were freed from Egypt. Gal 3:19¶Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


Truth will set you free. Lies keep you in bondage.

 

[Stryder06]

Your arguments are saying Jews was the first Christians, you're implying that they kept the law and taught the law. I'm posting text of Peter saying... "God chose me to be the first to preach to the Gentiles. Act 15:7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Then James said;
Act 15:13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Stryder, you're not applying the facts to wisdom to know when God turned to the Gentiles with the gospel.

Crib, the gentiles had been called since the days of old. Peter being called to take the good news to the gentiles does not mean that (A) he suddenly stopped keeping God's law, or (B) that he was teaching them something contrary to the law of God.

This context actually teach us that the apostles did not send anyone to teach the law. So Yes, you're ignoring what is being said, just so you can reason away the facts without posting scriptures.

No I'm not ignoring it. And I don't need to post scripture when you've done it for me already. All I'm doing is explaining my understanding. I told you before that I don't do the "my scripture beats your scripture" thing. All scripture works together. All of it. From Genesis to Revelation.

Your'e arguing that Jews keep the law and only the law of Moses was done away with. Your truth is reasoning based on spin from certain isolated text. You have no choice but to hide from what I'm presenting.....You're not facing up or refuting my arguments, you're just making new arguments.

I'm not trying to argue. I'm trying to take a logical approach to these arguements and ask you to look at it in a way that makes sense. A way that doesn't require you to throw out some scripture so that you can hold to your beliefs. The ten commandments were placed within the ark of the covenant, under the mercy seat. This was symbolic of the heavenly reality. John, in revelation, saw the ark of the testimony. God called the ten commandments, "the testimony...", thus what John saw was the ark that contained the original ten commandments. That's why I know the ten haven't been done away with, because the originals are still in heaven.

Is that your final answer Stryder?

Am I wrong?