I'm glad you're no longer one of the wicked servants who says "The Lord delays his coming."
Your claim that the times of the Gentiles came to an end in 1967 falls apart in Romans 11. It also falls apart in Luke 21:25-28, with the future Second Coming of Christ, which occurs when the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled.Hi. I have gone back to pre-trib again. Why? ... a consensus of opinion.. I read Luke 21 again.. there seem to be signs and I have a general sense that the great tribulation is approaching.
I was toying with preterism, but I think that there are ways to explain how the kingdom came back in the day.. the resurrection and Pentecost, and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, Jesus appearing to the apostles...
that doesn't square with the whole of Luke 21.
I have indicated where I think the distinction can be drawn between the 1st century, and 66-70 AD, and the end of the age, after the close of the age of the Gentiles (1967).
I know that there are many post tribbers on the forum, and this might frustrate/annoy, but also perhaps discussion.
Luke 21
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (70AD)
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. (not 70AD, but the end of the age/world).
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolk, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. (1st
century).
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. (70AD)
21 Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into. (70AD)
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (70AD)
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (70AD)
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: (70AD)
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (End of the age/world).
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; (End of the age/world).
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (End of the age/world).
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (End of the age/world).
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. (Both - 66-70AD and end of the age/world).
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. (70 AD again).
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. (End of the age/world).
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (Both - 66-70AD and end of the age/world).
yeah, maybe. .. just being a non-Gentile isn't really the fulfillment .. what Jesus woz talking about, me thinks. I don't go with dispensationalism.. I think it error .. what would be the end of the age of the Gentiles? ... don't know.. perhaps you're right.Your claim that the times of the Gentiles came to an end in 1967 falls apart in Romans 11. It also falls apart in Luke 21:25-28, with the future Second Coming of Christ, which occurs when the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
.
i am a pre-tribber and i will always stand by those viewsHi. I have gone back to pre-trib again. Why? ... a consensus of opinion.. I read Luke 21 again.. there seem to be signs and I have a general sense that the great tribulation is approaching.
I was toying with preterism, but I think that there are ways to explain how the kingdom came back in the day.. the resurrection and Pentecost, and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, Jesus appearing to the apostles...
that doesn't square with the whole of Luke 21.
I have indicated where I think the distinction can be drawn between the 1st century, and 66-70 AD, and the end of the age, after the close of the age of the Gentiles (1967).
I know that there are many post tribbers on the forum, and this might frustrate/annoy, but also perhaps discussion.
Luke 21
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (70AD)
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. (not 70AD, but the end of the age/world).
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolk, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. (1st
century).
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. (70AD)
21 Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into. (70AD)
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (70AD)
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (70AD)
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: (70AD)
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (End of the age/world).
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; (End of the age/world).
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (End of the age/world).
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (End of the age/world).
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. (Both - 66-70AD and end of the age/world).
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. (70 AD again).
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. (End of the age/world).
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (Both - 66-70AD and end of the age/world).
I don't go with dispensationalism.. I think it error ..
is pre-trib in the word? I think so: Luke 21 - 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
that's fairly clear to me.
Hi. I have gone back to pre-trib again. Why? ... a consensus of opinion.. I read Luke 21 again.. there seem to be signs and I have a general sense that the great tribulation is approaching.
I was toying with preterism, but I think that there are ways to explain how the kingdom came back in the day.. the resurrection and Pentecost, and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, Jesus appearing to the apostles...
that doesn't square with the whole of Luke 21.
I have indicated where I think the distinction can be drawn between the 1st century, and 66-70 AD, and the end of the age, after the close of the age of the Gentiles (1967).
I know that there are many post tribbers on the forum, and this might frustrate/annoy, but also perhaps discussion.
Luke 21
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (70AD)
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. (not 70AD, but the end of the age/world).
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolk, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. (1st
century).
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. (70AD)
21 Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into. (70AD)
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (70AD)
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (70AD)
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: (70AD)
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (End of the age/world).
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; (End of the age/world).
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. (End of the age/world).
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (End of the age/world).
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. (Both - 66-70AD and end of the age/world).
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. (70 AD again).
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. (End of the age/world).
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (Both - 66-70AD and end of the age/world).
I am glad you changed your mind, brother. For there is going to be a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. The Bible is very clear on this.
PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418
Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files
Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf
Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf
.
The true form of Replacement Theology is when it is taught to ignore the promise that God gave to His chosen people and simply blend all together to make it appear that there never was a promise of Godthe true form of "Replacement Theology".
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The true form of Replacement Theology is when it is taught to ignore the promise that God gave to His chosen people and simply blend all together to make it appear that there never was a promise of God
Gentile Christians have Not replaced the promise of God to Abraham Gentile Christians are the branch that is grafted into the original standing tree - but Replacement Theology seeks to call the original a counterfeit
Your flawed interpretation of what you read is obviousO
The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".
You are attempting to replace a Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles.
You are doing this in an attempt to make your Two Peoples of God doctrine work.
Absolutely true. So why are there those who still insist on maintaining a distinction between the Jews and the Church?But it is not a "Jewish Church", either. It is an "in Christ Church".
I never said nor hinted at a whole church being Gentile , it is your replacement theology that wants to remove the promises that God made to the Jewish people , trying to blend it in like milk into oil to make something else
Did you look at any of the links I gave you on the recent history of the doctrine?
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I agree with you. Consider.....But it is not a "Jewish Church", either. It is an "in Christ Church".
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