Its of Faith so to be of Grace

[Brightfame52]

Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Many will say that Faith/Believing isn't a work because they are contrasted with one another, e.g. Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So this seems to support the ideal that believing, a act that man does, isnt a work, but does it ? The fact is, there is a real contrast between believing and working, but its not because Faith/Believing isnt a work. The contrast is valid when we understand that believing, though an act/work man does, its not mans work, but Gods Work in us. Remember when Jesus said this Jn 6:29

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

You see that ? Jesus answer to their question wasn't to their sentiments, however the reply He gave reveals a great truth, that the believing on the name of the Son of God, is Gods Work in us . Yes believing on the Son is Gods Work, not ours. Its only when we understand that the act of Believing it takes to believe on Christ for all Salvation, isnt our own work out of the flesh, our own human faith by nature, but that its an act we do because its totally empowered by the Grace of God, the Spirit of God, Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Then the contrast is valid !

 

[anna ~ grace]

Faith / believing is not a work. Following Christ involves works.

But trusting in Him, while an act, is not an action executed physically such as feeding the hungry, housing someone, or cooking dinner for your family, and as such can not be considered a work as Scripture generally defines a work theologically.

We can debate the relationship between faith in Christ and doing works within the context and because of Christian faith, but to call trusting / believing in Christ a work as generally understood Soteriologically is a confusing and untrue statement.

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith / believing is not a work. Following Christ involves works.

But trusting in Him, while an act, is not an action executed physically such as feeding the hungry, housing someone, or cooking dinner for your family, and as such can not be considered a work as Scripture generally defines a work theologically.

We can debate the relationship between faith in Christ and doing works within the context and because of Christian faith, but to call trusting / believing in Christ a work as generally understood Soteriologically is a confusing and untrue statement.

It doesnt appear you understand the op.

 

[Soyeong]

Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Many will say that Faith/Believing isn't a work because they are contrasted with one another, e.g. Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So this seems to support the ideal that believing, a act that man does, isnt a work, but does it ? The fact is, there is a real contrast between believing and working, but its not because Faith/Believing isnt a work. The contrast is valid when we understand that believing, though an act/work man does, its not mans work, but Gods Work in us. Remember when Jesus said this Jn 6:29

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

You see that ? Jesus answer to their question wasn't to their sentiments, however the reply He gave reveals a great truth, that the believing on the name of the Son of God, is Gods Work in us . Yes believing on the Son is Gods Work, not ours. Its only when we understand that the act of Believing it takes to believe on Christ for all Salvation, isnt our own work out of the flesh, our own human faith by nature, but that its an act we do because its totally empowered by the Grace of God, the Spirit of God, Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Then the contrast is valid !

Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified while also denying in Romans 4:4-5 that our justification can be earned as a wage, so the issue is that there must be a reason that our justification requires our obedience to God's law other than in order to earn it as a wage, namely faith. So Romans 4-4-5 is not contrasting faith with works in general, but rather it is just contrasting faith with specifically those works done to earn a wage. The Son is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through his works by living in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so when we express the divine nature through our works in obedience to God's law, we are expressing what we believe about the nature of who the Son is, or in other words, we are believing in the Son.

 

[Brightfame52]

Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified while also denying in Romans 4:4-5 that our justification can be earned as a wage, so the issue is that there must be a reason that our justification requires our obedience to God's law other than in order to earn it as a wage, namely faith. So Romans 4-4-5 is not contrasting faith with works in general, but rather it is just contrasting faith with specifically those works done to earn a wage. The Son is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through his works by living in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so when we express the divine nature through our works in obedience to God's law, we are expressing what we believe about the nature of who the Son is, or in other words, we are believing in the Son.

I dont know what you talking about friend.

 

[Doug Brents]

I dont know what you talking about friend.

Please correct me if I am wrong, Soyeong, but I believe he is saying that, as we are told in Luke 17:7-10, our obedience does not earn salvation, but it is required to receive it nonetheless.

 

[Soyeong]

I dont know what you talking about friend.

Can you be more specific about what was not clear? You spoke about Romans 4:5 contrasting faith with works, however, my point was that it was only contrasting faith with works done for the purpose of earning a wage, not works done for other purposes, such as faith. Every example of faith listed in Hebrews 11 is also an example of someone doing works, so faith is a work, just not a work done in order to earn a wage.

 

[pasifika]

Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Many will say that Faith/Believing isn't a work because they are contrasted with one another, e.g. Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So this seems to support the ideal that believing, a act that man does, isnt a work, but does it ? The fact is, there is a real contrast between believing and working, but its not because Faith/Believing isnt a work. The contrast is valid when we understand that believing, though an act/work man does, its not mans work, but Gods Work in us. Remember when Jesus said this Jn 6:29

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

You see that ? Jesus answer to their question wasn't to their sentiments, however the reply He gave reveals a great truth, that the believing on the name of the Son of God, is Gods Work in us . Yes believing on the Son is Gods Work, not ours. Its only when we understand that the act of Believing it takes to believe on Christ for all Salvation, isnt our own work out of the flesh, our own human faith by nature, but that its an act we do because its totally empowered by the Grace of God, the Spirit of God, Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

Then the contrast is valid !

Hello,
Romans 4:5 shows Faith is the "work" when you believe..(you "believe" within your heart Romans 10:10 and you profess your Faith by your actions)...

 

[Brightfame52]

Its when we understand that to believe on Christ is not of ourselves, but given to us by Grace Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

See that ? If its given unto you to believe, then its not of yourself, therefore its not your work, but Gods Jn 6:29

The word given charizomai means:

to give graciously, give freely, bestow

Also its made up from of the word charis which is translated grace 130 x in the NT

So thats why Paul wrote believers believed through or because of Grace Acts 18:27 and why he wrote in Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith[believing], that it might be by grace;

But if we say that our believing/faith is of ourselves, you default to a work salvation, and forfeit the contrast of believing and works !

 

[fhansen]

Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified while also denying in Romans 4:4-5 that our justification can be earned as a wage, so the issue is that there must be a reason that our justification requires our obedience to God's law other than in order to earn it as a wage, namely faith. So Romans 4-4-5 is not contrasting faith with works in general, but rather it is just contrasting faith with specifically those works done to earn a wage. The Son is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through his works by living in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so when we express the divine nature through our works in obedience to God's law, we are expressing what we believe about the nature of who the Son is, or in other words, we are believing in the Son.

This is true. So the church has taught that both, faith and works of obedience for the believer, are gifts of grace.

 

[Brightfame52]

So when we scripture about believing e.g Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Then we know that the believing here is the Work of God Jn 6:29, that its the Grace of God Acts 18:27, that it is given by Grace Phil 1:29 and that the believing is not of themselves, but the Gift of God Eph 2:8 !

 

[Brightfame52]

Another scripture that shows that ones Faith/Believing is Gods Work Jn 6:29 is found in Eph 1:19-20

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Now the punctuation isn't inspired, so if we move out the comma in Vs 19 it would read :

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his mighty power,

Its easy to see that the usward believe according to Gods exceeding great power, and the working of His mighty power !

So then Faith/Believing is not of ourselves, then believing in that respect, is contrasted to or works !

 

[prophecy_uk]

Another scripture that shows that ones Faith/Believing is Gods Work Jn 6:29 is found in Eph 1:19-20

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Now the punctuation isn't inspired, so if we move out the comma in Vs 19 it would read :

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his mighty power,

Its easy to see that the usward believe according to Gods exceeding great power, and the working of His mighty power !

So then Faith/Believing is not of ourselves, then believing in that respect, is contrasted to or works !

The world cant seek God by wisdom ( wisdom of men) we seek God through Christ, which is belief in His necessity to die for our sins, and to rise for our glory ( there was no glory in sins and death) and all men's words are designed to bring death, but the words of Christ are Spirit and life, because He layed His life down for us, and why would we hear men teaching about keeping life for themselves?


John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

 

[Brightfame52]

Its Grace that saves, nothing of our works or conditions, even the Faith that we believe by, is given by God on account of the Grace that saves. See when Salvation is by Grace, the one being saved has not met any conditions.

 

[prophecy_uk]

God works in us, that is Gods grace, neither is it our works...



Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.




The faith that we believe by, is by the faith of Jesus Christ, that is the gift of grace too..


Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.




The conditions are unconditional grace, it is freely given, so they freely give, and they do not freely give unrighteousness, as they were freely given righteousness.

But the ones who freely give unrighteousness, reveal this was the only gift they received, but not of God, of the one who is the god of this world...



1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

 

[Brightfame52]

It is of Faith so that it it will be of Grace ! Also Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith is given by Grace, and it sees that none of Salvation by Grace was conditioned on man, on what a man does. This Faith given only to Gods Elect, the Election of Grace believes in only what God did to save them

 

[prophecy_uk]

A man does evil and denies Christ, likewise a man does good and confesses Him( this is faith in righteousness, or faith in evil)..




Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

 

[Brightfame52]

We are saved by Grace through Faith, that is Grace is accompanied with the Gift of Faith or Believing, and the converted person will understand and believe they have been saved by Gods Grace alone !

 

[Brightfame52]

Grace is from God and believing is from God, 1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

And Christ the Saviour is God Titus 2:13

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

So Christ is the author of the believers Faith Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[prophecy_uk]

We are saved by Grace through Faith, that is Grace is accompanied with the Gift of Faith or Believing, and the converted person will understand and believe they have been saved by Gods Grace alone !

The converted person is as little children, to be the least to themselves, the exalted person is the least to God..


Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.