It's 2019, not 1519.

[public hermit]

You can still play. Many of the toys are abandoned and strewn about the place.

Post #6 was my humble offering, which apparently went over like a lead balloon.

 

[lostinthought]

That what I did. It's a voluntary act though.

Then how did you conclude that there is a god?

 

[renniks]

It always seems a bit weird to me when atheists invade Christian formats apparently in order to convince people of faith that they're wrong. If we are wrong, what is that to the one who believes in nothing? Is he an evangelist for nothingness? If we come to his side and believe in nothing too, what has he gained? Nothing.

 

[dayhiker]

It's you that misrepresents me.

I became an Atheist because Theism has failed to meet its burden of proof. As such, I reject the god hypothesis until such time as there is proof.

If you have come to the conclusion that there is a god, you either have proof or you have faith. Proof requires investigation. Faith requires nothing more that accepting the god hypothesis. If you have proof, then I would like to hear it.

Thanks for clarifing why your an Atheist. I didn't get that from reading your first post.
Most people seem to look for physical evidence when asking for proof. I know of no way to prove God with physical evidence. For me there is a lot more going on in existence than what a purely physical world would provide.

 

[lostinthought]

Who has appointed you as judge that you demand being convinced?

Ah, another ad hominem. Another sure sign of a lost argument.

We are debating the god hypothesis. A logical and honest person only believes when there is proof. If you wish to offer proof, then offer it.

If you no longer want to be part of the debate, then feel free to withdraw.

 

[Basil the Great]

Agreed, but being raised a Theist isn't a good reason to remain one.



I am absolutely gob-smacked by this statement. AFAIK, not one shred of evidence for the existence of the god of the bible, or any other god for that matter, has ever been produced. If there ever has, you and I would not be having this conversation. If there is evidence for the existence of any god, I would like to hear it. By the way, so would the Nobel committee because, if you have such evidence and present it, you will, I have no doubt, be rewarded with a Nobel prize. In addition, if you present such evidence of a god to James Randi, or his committee, you will receive $1 million.



Do you want to be in a position where you believe as much as possible what is true and reject as much as possible what is false? I know I do. Faith is one of the least reliable methods for arriving at the truth that I am aware of. Why would any logical and honest thinker use faith to determine what is true and what it false. To do so is patently absurd.



When I look up at the stars I see natural scientific laws at work.

When I look up at the stars, it convinces me that it is not the work of any god, including the one that you seem to believe in, unless that god is perverse and malevolent. The universe is an extremely hostile place, especially to mankind. If you don't believe me, take a trip into outer space without benefit of an expensive space suit and see how long you last. In fact, most of the universe consists of empty space at a temperature of 2.73 degrees Kelvin, which, by any standard, is a might cold and definitely not conducive to any form of life, including Human. Take a trip to our nearest star, the SUN, and see what happens when you get too close. Don't go too close to a supernova, there's a strong possibility that you will end up dead. Indeed, you can stay on this planet and observe what a precarious life we Humans actually have. The dinosaurs are no more because of a cataclysmic event here on Earth (thought to be the result of a large meteorite hitting it). If a god really exists, I would have thought that the good people, in what was Pompeii, are non-too-pleased with the god entity. About 71% of the Earth is covered by water. This is not a substance which man can breath.

Why would any god, let alone your god, create Man and then place him in such a hostile environment pray tell?

If I were you, I would go to sleep. Given your post, it would appear that you need to.

Night night.

When I was in college many years ago, I ran across a book written by a philosopher, not a Christian and I do not believe a member of any organized faith. He was actually an agnostic it would seem. I do not know his name or the title of his book. After all, it has been several decades since college. However, he laid out all the proofs, for and against the existence of God. His final summation is that there is slightly more proof for God than against and his main reason is not because it would take a Supreme Being to create the Universe, but that someone or something has sustained the Universe's existence for billions of years and he attributed such to a Supreme Being.

Peace and have a nice day.

 

[Robban]

Ah, another ad hominem. Another sure sign of a lost argument.

We are debating the god hypothesis. A logical and honest person only believes when there is proof. If you wish to offer proof, then offer it.

If you no longer want to be part of the debate, then feel free to withdraw.

G-ds existence has never been proven through debate.

Do you believe you will see tomorrow or do you know?

Have you proof of this?

 

[durangodawood]

....someone or something has sustained the Universe's existence for billions of years and he attributed such to a Supreme Being.

Would be interesting to see the evidence for this.

 

[Hank77]

The Romans, who were one of the most anally-retentive peoples ever to walk the Earth, wrote nothing about jesus during his lifetime. Odd, don't you think?

I don't find it odd at all. Jesus' audience was the Jews in Judea not gentiles anywhere. It was at least 14 yrs. after his death that Paul went to the gentiles. Yes, there were a few Roman converts, and that's assuming there were more than Cornelius after Pentecost. But Cornelius was already a believer in the Jewish God.
However, there is a Roman historian who wrote about Jesus and his Christian followers, named Tacitus.
Tacitus on Christ - Wikipedia

 

[BNR32FAN]

Before I begin, I'd like to state that I'm an Atheist.

As far as I can remember, although my parents were Theists, I have never been one. The thought of a god seems so improbably to me. It just makes no logical sense. As far as I am able to recall, I've always felt that a god was illogical and improbable.

I remember this one time at school I told one of the boys, that I considered a friend, that I didn't believe in god. I'm sure that there was a valid reason for telling him this but that is now lost in the mists of time. That must have been way back in the late 50s when the world was a very different place and when most people in the UK believed in god.

Anyways, later that day, the teacher asked the class to put up their hands if they believed in god. Obviously, my soon-to-be-ex-friend had snitched on me. No matter, my hand remained firmly down. Even in those days, I was a rebel.

The teacher noticed that only my hand remained down.

I was asked to come and stand in front of the class, caned on the hand and then made to stand in the corner with my back to the class until home time.

I remember the incident as though it were yesterday because it was the one and only time that I was ever punished by a teacher since, actually, I was a very keen and studious student.

The incident made no difference one way or the other. I didn't believe in god because it was illogical. Logic doesn't change. Neither has my attitude to religion.

I am a member of several Atheist forums. We welcome Theists unreservedly although we reserve the right to question the Theist's beliefs. Unlike this forum, full access to all of our threads are open to both Theists and Atheists alike. Generally, Theists are free to criticise us Atheists in whatever manner they choose, including the use of profanity. You see, from our perspective, truth has nothing to fear from inquiry. Even though christianity is supposedly about peace, love, understanding, acceptance and tolerance, it would appear that Atheists are far more tolerant of Theists than are Theists of Atheists, given that there are topics on this forum that are only open to christians.

At one time, drive-by Theists frequently dropped into our forums but they rarely stayed any length of time when they realised that we Atheists had able minds and used them in a logical and inquiring manner. Fools we weren't.

However, I can't quite remember when we last encountered a Theist. Our forums have become as quiet as the grave. Therefore, I though that I would drop in on you guys and gals for a spot of healthy debate.

Let's start at the top, if I may:

If one begins with the premise: I don't know whether a god exists or not and one then follows the evidence in a logical and honest manner, one does not end up at the conclusion: There is a god.

This therefore begs the question: How and why do people become Theists and, given the lack of evidence and recent scientific research, remain so.

I believe there are tons of scientific evidence that suggest the probability of God is more probable than evolution or any other theories we have floating around out there. The complexity and intelligent design of life, the ecosystem, and the consideration of all that is necessary for life to exist on this planet are all very overwhelming. Many have compared the odds of all these necessities coming together by chance with placing a bunch of dynamite along with paper and ink into a room and lighting the fuse resulting in the creation of a library of books. The improbability factor of all these coming together in perfect harmony are staggeringly improbable, even more improbable than the existence of God.

 

[lostinthought]

It always seems a bit weird to me when atheists invade Christian formats apparently in order to convince people of faith that they're wrong. If we are wrong, what is that to the one who believes in nothing? Is he an evangelist for nothingness? If we come to his side and believe in nothing too, what has he gained? Nothing.

You obviously do not understand Atheism. For the umpteenth time, we reject the Theist god hypothesis until such time as proof is presented.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything except to ask for proof of god.

I am not claiming that there is a god nor that there is no god - only that there is insufficient proof to warrant a belief in a god.

I am not claiming that people are wrong to have faith. I am saying that it is illogical and incorrect to claim that assertions, regardless of which book they are in, are the same as proof.

 

[Basil the Great]

Would be interesting to see the evidence for this.

The evidence is not direct evidence that can be tested via the scientific method. It is rather indirect evidence, but evidence nevertheless, if one wishes to accept it.

 

[renniks]

You obviously do not understand Atheism. For the umpteenth time, we reject the Theist god hypothesis until such time as proof is presented.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything except to ask for proof of god.

I am not claiming that there is a god nor that there is no god - only that there is insufficient proof to warrant a belief in a god.

I am not claiming that people are wrong to have faith. I am saying that it is illogical and incorrect to claim that assertions, regardless of which book they are in, are the same as proof.

Ok, then, I'm off to ask the people on the Easter bunny forum why they believe in the bunny. On second thought, why waste my time, when I could be just enjoying roast rabbit and watching bugs bunny cartoons?
You might actually think you are here to ask people why they think God is real. I just don't believe that is your real motivation. I think you want to be convinced, because life sucks if this is all there is.

 

[Hank77]

Thats for everyone who claims "atheism is a religion!"

I'm pretty sure he stated that atheism is not a religion.

 

[renniks]

I am not claiming that people are wrong to have faith. I am saying that it is illogical and incorrect to claim that assertions, regardless of which book they are in, are the same as proof.

Ok, so what would it take to convince you to believe in God? And I apologize if somebody already covered this, I'm too busy/lazy to read the whole thread.
Could it be something as simple as an amazing coincidence? What if God showed you something in a way only you would understand?
If he spoke to you audibly would that do it?
Maybe it's not just a book that prompts us to believe. Maybe it's a million little miracles.

 

[lostinthought]

I believe there are tons of scientific evidence that suggest the probability of God is more probable than evolution or any other theories we have floating around out there.

You may believe what you will but this does not constitute proof of anything.

The complexity and intelligent design of life, the ecosystem, and the consideration of all that is necessary for life to exist on this planet are all very overwhelming. Many have compared the odds of all these necessities coming together by chance with placing a bunch of dynamite along with paper and ink into a room and lighting the fuse resulting in the creation of a library of books. The improbability factor of all these coming together in perfect harmony are staggeringly improbable, even more improbable than the existence of God.

Complexity and 'apparent' intelligent design is no proof of god - or anything else for that matter. Evolution is accepted by most scientists as the most likely explanation of the diversity of life on Earth. Besides, I used the term "'apparent' intelligent design" because the human body could and should have been better designed had there been an intelligent designer. Let's take DNA. Who the hell designs a molecule that, when it divides and multiples, could give rise to a cancerous mutation? Who the hell designs a human being with an orifice down which one pours water and food and which is also used to breath through such that choking is a real possibility. And now, to be crude, for which I sincerely apologise, which intelligent creator put a female's pleasure beach right next to the sewage works? This intelligent design business doesn't seem intelligent to me. Someone with even a modicum of intelligence would never design a human this way. I could go on but the suggestion of intelligent design is ludicrous.

If you think that god is more likely than evolution, the please provide proof.

You make claims about the improbability of life. Improbability does not mean it is impossible. Further, because life without god is improbable, god does not make it more probable because the improbability of god is ignored.

How improbable is god?

 

[Strathos]

Before I begin, I'd like to state that I'm an Atheist.

As far as I can remember, although my parents were Theists, I have never been one. The thought of a god seems so improbably to me. It just makes no logical sense. As far as I am able to recall, I've always felt that a god was illogical and improbable.

I remember this one time at school I told one of the boys, that I considered a friend, that I didn't believe in god. I'm sure that there was a valid reason for telling him this but that is now lost in the mists of time. That must have been way back in the late 50s when the world was a very different place and when most people in the UK believed in god.

Anyways, later that day, the teacher asked the class to put up their hands if they believed in god. Obviously, my soon-to-be-ex-friend had snitched on me. No matter, my hand remained firmly down. Even in those days, I was a rebel.

The teacher noticed that only my hand remained down.

I was asked to come and stand in front of the class, caned on the hand and then made to stand in the corner with my back to the class until home time.

I remember the incident as though it were yesterday because it was the one and only time that I was ever punished by a teacher since, actually, I was a very keen and studious student.

The incident made no difference one way or the other. I didn't believe in god because it was illogical. Logic doesn't change. Neither has my attitude to religion.

I am a member of several Atheist forums. We welcome Theists unreservedly although we reserve the right to question the Theist's beliefs. Unlike this forum, full access to all of our threads are open to both Theists and Atheists alike. Generally, Theists are free to criticise us Atheists in whatever manner they choose, including the use of profanity. You see, from our perspective, truth has nothing to fear from inquiry. Even though christianity is supposedly about peace, love, understanding, acceptance and tolerance, it would appear that Atheists are far more tolerant of Theists than are Theists of Atheists, given that there are topics on this forum that are only open to christians.

At one time, drive-by Theists frequently dropped into our forums but they rarely stayed any length of time when they realised that we Atheists had able minds and used them in a logical and inquiring manner. Fools we weren't.

However, I can't quite remember when we last encountered a Theist. Our forums have become as quiet as the grave. Therefore, I though that I would drop in on you guys and gals for a spot of healthy debate.

Let's start at the top, if I may:

If one begins with the premise: I don't know whether a god exists or not and one then follows the evidence in a logical and honest manner, one does not end up at the conclusion: There is a god.

This therefore begs the question: How and why do people become Theists and, given the lack of evidence and recent scientific research, remain so.

tl;dr - you're advertising because you want new members for your dead forum. No thanks.

 

[klutedavid]

Before I begin, I'd like to state that I'm an Atheist.

As far as I can remember, although my parents were Theists, I have never been one. The thought of a god seems so improbably to me. It just makes no logical sense. As far as I am able to recall, I've always felt that a god was illogical and improbable.

I remember this one time at school I told one of the boys, that I considered a friend, that I didn't believe in god. I'm sure that there was a valid reason for telling him this but that is now lost in the mists of time. That must have been way back in the late 50s when the world was a very different place and when most people in the UK believed in god.

Anyways, later that day, the teacher asked the class to put up their hands if they believed in god. Obviously, my soon-to-be-ex-friend had snitched on me. No matter, my hand remained firmly down. Even in those days, I was a rebel.

The teacher noticed that only my hand remained down.

I was asked to come and stand in front of the class, caned on the hand and then made to stand in the corner with my back to the class until home time.

I remember the incident as though it were yesterday because it was the one and only time that I was ever punished by a teacher since, actually, I was a very keen and studious student.

The incident made no difference one way or the other. I didn't believe in god because it was illogical. Logic doesn't change. Neither has my attitude to religion.

I am a member of several Atheist forums. We welcome Theists unreservedly although we reserve the right to question the Theist's beliefs. Unlike this forum, full access to all of our threads are open to both Theists and Atheists alike. Generally, Theists are free to criticise us Atheists in whatever manner they choose, including the use of profanity. You see, from our perspective, truth has nothing to fear from inquiry. Even though christianity is supposedly about peace, love, understanding, acceptance and tolerance, it would appear that Atheists are far more tolerant of Theists than are Theists of Atheists, given that there are topics on this forum that are only open to christians.

At one time, drive-by Theists frequently dropped into our forums but they rarely stayed any length of time when they realised that we Atheists had able minds and used them in a logical and inquiring manner. Fools we weren't.

However, I can't quite remember when we last encountered a Theist. Our forums have become as quiet as the grave. Therefore, I though that I would drop in on you guys and gals for a spot of healthy debate.

Let's start at the top, if I may:

If one begins with the premise: I don't know whether a god exists or not and one then follows the evidence in a logical and honest manner, one does not end up at the conclusion: There is a god.

This therefore begs the question: How and why do people become Theists and, given the lack of evidence and recent scientific research, remain so.

One needs to tread carefully.

Therefore the question of God's existence may lie outside the purview of modern science by definition. (wikipedia)

 

[durangodawood]

The evidence is not direct evidence that can be tested via the scientific method. It is rather indirect evidence, but evidence nevertheless, if one wishes to accept it.

So... whats an example of this evidence?

 

[Albion]

Misrepresenting me seems to be a trait of this forum.

Atheists are 'not against god'.

I'll have to ask forgiveness then. My impression of "A (without) theism (belief in God)" is of a belief that there is no God.