It Was Impossible for Jesus to Sin

[Tree of Life]

What you said goes against the prayer in garden of Gethsemane. His sacrifice was only valid because of his flesh. If his flesh wasn't needed, then there was no reason for Him to come down at all. You're not thinking this through thoroughly. The passage I just gave you is a direct counter to what you are saying, going as far as to say that what you said comes not from God. Also, Hebrews 4:15 shows us the validity of his nature.

The impeccability of Christ is a historic doctrine of the church. It's been clearly thought through for thousands of years.

Jesus' sacrifice is valid not because he had sinful flesh, but because he took on our humanity. It is furthermore valid precisely because he was without blemish. He was/is a perfectly sinless human being. Jesus' agony in the garden shows his agony in the garden. It does not show a desire to sin or any sin at all. Jesus was perfectly willing to submit to the Father in all things.

 

[Tree of Life]

Even though Jesus was God, He emptied Himself and became just like us.
Now He had to choose not to sin. If He had not emptied Himself, He would not have been able to sin.

This is heretical. Jesus emptied himself in the sense that he made him self of no reputation. He came in the form of a servant. But he never lost his God-ness is his self-emptying. Jesus has always been God.

 

[Senkaku]

The impeccability of Christ is a historic doctrine of the church. It's been clearly thought through for thousands of years.

Jesus' sacrifice is valid not because he had sinful flesh, but because he took on our humanity. It is furthermore valid precisely because he was without blemish. He was/is a perfectly sinless human being. Jesus' agony in the garden shows his agony in the garden. It does not show a desire to sin or any sin at all. Jesus was perfectly willing to submit to the Father in all things.

just to be clear, I'm not saying is sinful flesh, just sating that, especially according to Hebrews, the possibly of sin was before him and it was a choice He could possibly make as part of His human nature. Without this possibility, His human nature is invalid. This is what I believe the scriptures are pointing towards here. If you don't see the struggle in the prayer, maybe a little context can help you. The Son of God, God manifest in the flesh, needed help from an angel in that moment to fight off the fleshly desires. He prayed so hard that his sweat was as blood. You don't think He struggled with temptation? You don't think this was a big deal? I'm not sure you are understanding the exchange that was happening during that time. If it were that easy, then it would have been a simple decision and it wasn't. He wasn't fighting the devil here, only himself.

 

[FenderTL5]

Being full man does not mean that it must be possible to sin. In glory it will no longer be possible for us to sin, but we will still be fully human. We will be fully human for the first time.

I've been reading through notes on the 3rd and 4th Ecumenical Councils, particularly the 4th (Chalcedon). While I'm not prepared to argue against your point, I'm neither convinced that you are correct.
The complete/full humanity of Christ in the Incarnation is the subject.

 

[Tree of Life]

He wasn't fighting the devil here, only himself.

I'll just respond to this little bit here.

So you are suggesting that Jesus had a splitness that you and I, as regenerate believers, have. We fight ourselves all the time. That is to say, we fight the sinful inclinations of our hearts. We have both selfish desires and Spirit-led desires as redeemed sinners. And they are at war.

Jesus did not have a sinful, fallen, selfish nature to fight. He was perfectly united in himself in his Spirit-filled desires to please God and do righteousness. This does not mean that Jesus didn't suffer when tempted. But this suffering does not entail that it was possible for him to sin or that he wanted to sin in any way.

 

[Tree of Life]

I've been reading through notes on the 3rd and 4th Ecumenical Councils, particularly the 4th (Chalcedon). While I'm not prepared to argue against your point, I'm neither convinced that you are correct.
The complete/full humanity of Christ in the Incarnation is the subject.

Read on and you'll find the impeccability of Christ to be the historic, orthodox view.

 

[Loren T.]

The desire to sin is itself sin. Jesus never desired to sin.

Then he was never tempted.
15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
The desire to sin is not sin unless you entertain and feed it, and it becomes full grown. How can anyone say, "I was tempted by that...whatever that may be, if he didn't desire it?

 

[Senkaku]

I'll just respond to this little bit here.

So you are suggesting that Jesus had a splitness that you and I, as regenerate believers, have. We fight ourselves all the time. That is to say, we fight the sinful inclinations of our hearts. We have both selfish desires and Spirit-led desires as redeemed sinners. And they are at war.

Jesus did not have a sinful, fallen, selfish nature to fight. He was perfectly united in himself in his Spirit-filled desires to please God and do righteousness. This does not mean that Jesus didn't suffer when tempted. But this suffering does not entail that it was possible for him to sin or that he wanted to sin in any way.

Why then did the devil waste his time in tempting Him if he couldn't? Why then would He struggle in the Garden if He couldn't? If I ask a handicapped person to walk, they can't, any intelligent person would not ask such a question. Did you even read the scriptures I posted? Your answers sound purely dogmatic or idealistic, not scriptural at all. I'm not suggesting Jesus had a splitness at all, not sure where you got that from. I believe the evidence speaks for itself. It makes absolutely no sense at all for Jesus to struggle with something that he possibly couldn't struggle with at all. Jesus' desire was to fulfill the Will of the Father, even in the face of adversity. That's how He won, it's how we win every day, when we choose His will above ours. I digress, since it doesn't seem like you are understanding my point or the context of the verses I posted.

 

[Doug Melven]

This is heretical. Jesus emptied himself in the sense that he made him self of no reputation. He came in the form of a servant. But he never lost his God-ness is his self-emptying. Jesus has always been God.

Jesus made Himself of no reputation and took upon Himself the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men. Phi 2:7

Verse 6 talks about His Godhood.
Verse 8 talks about Him dying.
He had to have set aside His Godhood as God can't die.
And having set aside His Godhood, it was now possible for Him to sin, but He chose not to. As God He would not have been able to because sinning isn't in God's nature.

 

[Loren T.]

There is this unspoken assumption here that whenever something was difficult for Jesus, he would just reach into his divine nature and overcome it. That's not being human. I agree that Jesus was always fully divine in nature, but if he only overcame due to his divinity, then he was not in every way like us and could not fully identify with our struggle. I believe Jesus overcame temptation without utilizing the divine, but rather, he was in such close communication with God, as a human, that sin could not get a grip on him.

 

[FenderTL5]

Read on and you'll find the impeccability of Christ to be the historic, orthodox view.

the definition of faith of the Council of Chalcedon are the following:
Following the holy fathers we teach with one voice that the Son of God and our Lord Jesus Christ is to be confessed as one and the same [Person], and He is perfect in Divinity and perfect in Humanity, true God and true Man, of a rational soul and [human] body consisting, of one essence with the Father as touching His Divinity and of one essence with us as touching His Humanity; made in all things like unto us, with the exception of sin only; begotten of His Father before all ages according to His Divinity: but in these last days, for us men and for our salvation, born [into the world] of the Virgin Mary, Theotokos, according to His Humanity. This one and the same Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son [of God] must be confessed to be in two natures, without mixture and without change, without separation and without division [i.e., without fusing together Divinity and Humanity so that the proper characteristics of each are changed or lost; and also without separating them in such a way that there might be considered to be two Sons and not One Son only] and that without the distinction of natures being removed by such union, but rather that the peculiar property of each nature being preserved and being united in one Person and Hypostasis, not separated or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son and only begotten, God the Word, our Lord Jesus Christ, as the Prophets of old have spoken concerning Him [e.g., the Immanuel of Is 7.14], and as Jesus Christ has taught us, and as the Creed of the fathers has delivered to us.

adding from Fr Thomas Hopko in 'The Orthodox Faith'
The virtue of the fourth council, in the Orthodox view, is that it defines very clearly the fact that when the Son of God was born as a man from the Virgin Mary, Theotokos, He did not cease to be God or change in His Divinity, while becoming a complete and perfect man in His incarnate Humanity. For salvation itself requires the perfect union of Divinity and Humanity in the one Person of Jesus Christ; union where God is God and Man is Man, and yet where the two become one in perfect unity: without fusion or change, and without division or separation.

 

[Tree of Life]

Then he was never tempted.
15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
The desire to sin is not sin unless you entertain and feed it, and it becomes full grown. How can anyone say, "I was tempted by that...whatever that may be, if he didn't desire it?

Jesus may be tempted externally without being tempted internally. He had no sin nature internally to tempt him. But he was certainly tempted and tested externally.

 

[Tree of Life]

Jesus made Himself of no reputation and took upon Himself the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men. Phi 2:7

Verse 6 talks about His Godhood.
Verse 8 talks about Him dying.
He had to have set aside His Godhood as God can't die.
And having set aside His Godhood, it was now possible for Him to sin, but He chose not to. As God He would not have been able to because sinning isn't in God's nature.

Heresy!

 

[Tree of Life]

There is this unspoken assumption here that whenever something was difficult for Jesus, he would just reach into his divine nature and overcome it. That's not being human. I agree that Jesus was always fully divine in nature, but if he only overcame due to his divinity, then he was not in every way like us and could not fully identify with our struggle. I believe Jesus overcame temptation without utilizing the divine, but rather, he was in such close communication with God, as a human, that sin could not get a grip on him.

This risks splitting Jesus into two person. A divine person in heaven and a human person on earth. Jesus is one person with two natures - divine and human.

 

[Tree of Life]

the definition of faith of the Council of Chalcedon are the following:
Following the holy fathers we teach with one voice that the Son of God and our Lord Jesus Christ is to be confessed as one and the same [Person], and He is perfect in Divinity and perfect in Humanity, true God and true Man, of a rational soul and [human] body consisting, of one essence with the Father as touching His Divinity and of one essence with us as touching His Humanity; made in all things like unto us, with the exception of sin only; begotten of His Father before all ages according to His Divinity: but in these last days, for us men and for our salvation, born [into the world] of the Virgin Mary, Theotokos, according to His Humanity. This one and the same Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son [of God] must be confessed to be in two natures, without mixture and without change, without separation and without division [i.e., without fusing together Divinity and Humanity so that the proper characteristics of each are changed or lost; and also without separating them in such a way that there might be considered to be two Sons and not One Son only] and that without the distinction of natures being removed by such union, but rather that the peculiar property of each nature being preserved and being united in one Person and Hypostasis, not separated or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son and only begotten, God the Word, our Lord Jesus Christ, as the Prophets of old have spoken concerning Him [e.g., the Immanuel of Is 7.14], and as Jesus Christ has taught us, and as the Creed of the fathers has delivered to us.

adding from Fr Thomas Hopko in 'The Orthodox Faith'
The virtue of the fourth council, in the Orthodox view, is that it defines very clearly the fact that when the Son of God was born as a man from the Virgin Mary, Theotokos, He did not cease to be God or change in His Divinity, while becoming a complete and perfect man in His incarnate Humanity. For salvation itself requires the perfect union of Divinity and Humanity in the one Person of Jesus Christ; union where God is God and Man is Man, and yet where the two become one in perfect unity: without fusion or change, and without division or separation.

Bingo.

 

[AFrazier]

I was reading through Berkhof this evening and came upon this:

"We ascribe to Christ not only natural, but also moral, integrity or moral perfection, that is sinlessness. This means not merely that Christ could avoid sinning, and did actually avoid it, but also that it was impossible for Him to sin because of the essential bond between the human and the divine natures."

I probably did not adequately grasp this before. Because Jesus is God, it was impossible for Him to sin. He did not struggle to be righteous like you and I do. It was the very nature of Christ to be righteous.

Jesus struggled the same as we do, but was without sin. That's what the scripture teaches. He was also of the seed of Abraham, made of a woman, and born under the law. Like every human being, his "nature" was to desire sin. But unlike other human beings, he chose righteousness and rejected evil and sin.

 

[Tree of Life]

Jesus struggled the same as we do, but was without sin. That's what the scripture teaches. He was also of the seed of Abraham, made of a woman, and born under the law. Like every human being, his "nature" was to desire sin. But unlike other human beings, he chose righteousness and rejected evil and sin.

Heresy! Jesus did not have a sin nature or a desire to sin. That would make his offering unacceptable to the Father, and it is unthinkable that God would have a sin nature.

 

[Dr Bruce Atkinson]

I was reading through Berkhof this evening and came upon this:

"We ascribe to Christ not only natural, but also moral, integrity or moral perfection, that is sinlessness. This means not merely that Christ could avoid sinning, and did actually avoid it, but also that it was impossible for Him to sin because of the essential bond between the human and the divine natures."

I probably did not adequately grasp this before. Because Jesus is God, it was impossible for Him to sin. He did not struggle to be righteous like you and I do. It was the very nature of Christ to be righteous.

Yes, with our 20-20 hindsight we can say that Jesus could not sin... because being God (as well as human), He did not. However, Satan obviously did not know this and therefore tempted Jesus in the wilderness and likely both in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the Cross. Why tempt Him if it was impossible for Him to sin? Jesus, as a human being, potentially could have sinned. He obviously struggled with temptation, sweated blood in the Garden, felt all kinds of physical and emotional pain, and was tortured to death. He accepted His built-in weaknesses as indicated by the concept of kenosis spelled out in Philippians 2 (see the end of this post).

Never say that Jesus did not have to struggle to be righteous! Even Jesus was tempted, even Jesus struggled with inner conflicts (have YOU ever sweated blood when facing torture and death?), even Jesus was rejected and betrayed by those he loved, and even Jesus could be killed, and was. Yet He proved His divinity, did He not? He was God in completely human manifestation; He did not have to suffer and die, but He allowed Himself to be weak like us so that He could fully represent us and thereby save us.

By choosing to be made temporarily weak, fully identifying with us, He made it possible for humans to realize that our own weakness can be made likewise temporary, through our belief in Christ and our identification with Him.
“In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.” (Hebrews 2:10) “We do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses... and because He himself has suffered and been tempted, He is able to help those who are likewise afflicted.” (Hebrews 4:15, 2:18)

“… Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” (Philippians 2:6-11)

If being righteous had been easy for Jesus, He would not be so exalted as King of kings and Lord of lords. He also could not be our High Priest, the slain Lamb of God who can fully "sympathize with our weaknesses."

 

[Yekcidmij]

Sin is not essential to humanity. Sin actually diminishes our humanity. You and I are less human because we sin and struggle with sin.

I would concede that we're less human when/because we sin, but I'm not sure that the struggle itself diminishes your humanity. It seems to me that the problem with sin is the action itself - doing the sin - not simply with struggling with it. I doubt people are guilty because they struggle with sin - I think they're guilty when they actually carry out the deed. As a simple example, an alcoholic doesn't become (or continue to be) an alcoholic just because they think about it - no, they're an alcoholic when they consume the drink uncontrollably. A thief isn't guilty when they think about stealing, but subsequently refrain from doing it. They are guilty when they actually steal something.

Jesus is the most fully human person who has ever existed precisely because he does not struggle with sin.

So Jesus didn't really know what it's like to struggle with temptation, contrary to all appearances in Matthew. Nor did he know what it's like to be victorious over real temptation. It seems I know a couple of things Jesus doesn't know.

 

[Ken Rank]

This certainly seems reasonable and is consistent with what I was taught the majority of my life in the Evangelical church.

This is deductive argument you give so I will respond with one:

God, as an essentially perfect being, cannot sin. But Christ is God, the second person of the Trinity. Therefore, Christ cannot sin.

Christology does suggest that Jesus has all the essential attributes of divinity, including the inability to sin (act against his own nature).

The key to understanding these apparent paradoxes is found in the kenosis in Phil 2:6ff. Jesus sets aside conscious access to his deity. The logos (preexisting 2nd person of the trinity takes on a human body and soul). Jesus shows that he doesn't know all things such as the hour and the day of his return. He gets hungry and thirsty. He is embodied and therefore in not able to operate his power in any location in the universe. We see limits to all of his divine attributes and he seems to be limited without trying. So while he does struggle to resist Satan when Jesus is tempted in the desert, theologians since the 4th century have been dubious about Jesus' ability to actually sin (act incongruous to his nature).

A discussion that helped me engage this topic deeper is here:

https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/question-answer/temptations-of-christ/

And for deeper understand on how consciousness and incarnation enable tempting and free will of Jesus even though he remains impeccable see:

https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/question-answer/freedom-and-the-ability-to-choose-evil

That probably explains it... but there is some speculation and seeing it involves God's work, I tend to not personally want to go there too much. But, you raised a point that reminded me of something I used to teach on this....

God apparently gave Adam dominion not just over the garden but over all of creation. I arrive at this because all of creation is tainted by the effect of sin. In other words, we can see the curse in the form of entropy, the 2nd law of thermodynamics. And, Paul tells is that all of creation groans as it awaits it's redemption (Romans 8:22). So everything that was created was effected by the wage of sin, the entire universe is dying.

The question than becomes, can anything from within the creation be used to repair the creation? And the answer has to be no... everything within is tainted. Imagine a fish tank with fish, plants, all sorts of life. We drop some acid in the tank and everything dies. Not only that, nothing from within the tank can be used to repair the tank. In order to reintroduce life into that fish tank, we need to introduce something from outside of it... something that isn't tainted.

Creation is like this... if there is nothing from within that can be used to repair creation, then we have to turn to the only thing that has always been there, before creation and outside of creation... the Creator Himself. Thus God took the form of man in order to do what was necessary to reverse the curse of sin and death. He died without having sinned, he entered the grave but the grave couldn't hold him because it was not designed for perfection, it was designed for sin and death. Thus He raised and in doing so earned the right to perfect whomever and whatever He desires.