It Just Doesn't Add Up

[Dream]

I consider myself fairly knowledgable about the Catholic Church. Obviously not neraly as knowledgeable as most of you are, but I do know a fair amount. I know what a mortal sin is. I know that skipping Mass is a grave sin, so if one does so with full knowledge and deliberate consent, they have committed a mortal sin.

Now let's say I am on vacation. How about I'm in the middle of Montana. Today is Saturday night so I make a few calls to find out where I can go to Mass tommorow. Since I am in Montana, the only Catholic Church I can find is 80 miles away. It's not impossible to get to, but that means it will cut off quite a bit of my time to hike through Glacier National Park. Seeing that I almost never have the opportunity to hike through Glacier, I decide to skip Mass and spend the time outdoors instead.

I have committed a mortal sin. I deliberately decided to skip Mass and I gave full consent.

At the same time, back home is my friend who only goes to Mass during Christmas and Easter. He knows that he is sinning by skipping Mass, but he doesn't care. He doesn't realize that it is a grave sin. So he decides to sleep in late on Sunday instead of going to Mass.

He has committed a venial sin. He knew that it was sinful, but he did not have full knowledge that his action was a grave sin.

This just doesn't add up. I have taken the time to research myself to the Truth of the Catholic Church, while my friend has been lazy and didn't concern himself with such matters.

We have both commited the same sin, except mine so awful that I am not in Communion with the Catholic Church anymore. I cannot recieve the Eucharist without attending Confession. In fact, if I die without confessing this sin, there is a good chance I will be damned to Hell. But at the same time, my friend is still in Communion with the Catholic Church because he was too lazy to educate himself.

Can somebody explain this to me? Why am I subject to much stricter regulations because I took the time and energy to educate myself?

 

[Dream]

35 views and not one response.

 

[Benedicta00]

This is why we leave all judgement up to God.

And I don't know if skipping Mass on vacation when the Church is 80 miles away is sinful.

It is the reputation of the faith e.g. not going to mass, the rejection of the faith rebelling against the faith by not going to mass that is mortal.

God will judge our hearts and if he calls you to a higher responsibility and a standard then so be it. You will be judged based on who you are and what graces God gave you, not the other guy so frankly speaking, it isn't your concern to worry how the next guy will be judged, all you can do for him is "preach the gospel, use words when necessary."

 

[Dream]

This is why we leave all judgement up to God.

And I don't know if skipping Mass on vacation when the Church is 80 miles away is sinful.

It is the reputation of the faith e.g. not going to mass, the rejection of the faith rebelling against the faith by not going to mass that is mortal.

God will judge our hearts and if he calls you to a higher responsibility and a standard then so be it. You will be judged based on who you are and what graces God gave you, not the other guy so frankly speaking, it isn't your concern to worry how the next guy will be judged, all you can do for him is "preach the gospel, use words when necessary."

Alright, then skip the whole vacation idea. Let's just say I wanted to sleep in on Sunday morning. Why is it so terrible for me to do so, but it's really not that big of a deal for my friend? Where is the justice in that?

Isn't that saying that ignorance is bliss?

 

[Paul S]

Jesus did say "to whom much is given, much is expected."

It would be unjust to condemn someone to hell for something which they were never taught. Wilfully failing to educate yourself about the teachings of the Church, however, can substitute for "full knowledge" and make something a mortal sin.

Also, you have deliberately chosen to reject God by skipping Mass - you knew it was a mortal sin, and did it anyway. The friend chose to sin, but did not choose to commit mortal sin.

 

[Paul S]

And I don't know if skipping Mass on vacation when the Church is 80 miles away is sinful.

It is, unless it's just too far to walk or drive. 80 miles is probably not too far, unless the roads are snowed over so it's too dangerous.

Being on vacation is no excuse for leaving God at home.

 

[Dream]

Jesus did say "to whom much is given, much is expected."

It would be unjust to condemn someone to hell for something which they were never taught. Wilfully failing to educate yourself about the teachings of the Church, however, can substitute for "full knowledge" and make something a mortal sin.

Also, you have deliberately chosen to reject God by skipping Mass - you knew it was a mortal sin, and did it anyway. The friend chose to sin, but did not choose to commit mortal sin.

So then the safest path must be to never learn what a mortal sin is. That way I have absolutely no chance of committing one.

 

[Benedicta00]

Alright, then skip the whole vacation idea. Let's just say I wanted to sleep in on Sunday morning. Why is it so terrible for me to do so, but it's really not that big of a deal for my friend? Where is the justice in that?

Isn't that saying that ignorance is bliss?

As unfair as it may seem this side of heaven- yes true invincible ignorance is bliss.

With that said, neither you nor I can really know who is and is not invincibly ignorant. Only God does. It is His job to worry over that, not ours.

With out worrying about the other guy sleeping in, when you know who and what it is you miss willing,that is wrong. How big a deal would it be if you slept in and skip a date with someone who cares for you and you, they? It isn’t a very nice thing to do, would you like it is someone you cared for slept in and missed a date with you? So why do you think Jesus wouldn’t mind? I think he would.

 

[Maximus]

So then the safest path must be to never learn what a mortal sin is. That way I have absolutely no chance of committing one.

Ah, the bliss of "Invincible Ignorance"!

It makes one more Catholic than Catholic (regardless of his religion) and places him on the right side of the Judgment Seat!

 

[Paul S]

So then the safest path must be to never learn what a mortal sin is. That way I have absolutely no chance of committing one.

But once you know that mortal sin exists, but refuse to learn about them in order to remain ignorant, your ignorance is no longer invincible.

 

[Dream]

As unfair as it may seem this side of heaven- yes true invincible ignorance is bliss.

With that said, neither you nor I can really know who is and is not invincibly ignorant. Only God does. It is His job to worry over that, not ours.

With out worrying about the other guy sleeping in, when you know who and what it is you miss willing,that is wrong. How big a deal would it be if you slept in and skip a date with someone who cares for you and you, they? It isn’t a very nice thing to do, would you like it is someone you cared for slept in and missed a date with you? So why do you think Jesus wouldn’t mind? I think he would.

I'm not worrying about the guy sleeping in nor am I jealous of Him. I enjoy going to Mass and try to do so every day.

I just don't understand how I can be held to such a higher standard because I know two things my friend does not:
1) Skipping Mass is a grave sin.
2) For a sin to be mortal, it needs to be of grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent.

Because I took the time to research that, I might end up getting eternally punished.

Should I tell my friend of these two things? If I do inform him of these things and he chooses to go to Mass every week, then only good has been done. But if I inform him and he still refuses to go to Mass, then I might have helped in sending him to Hell.

Should I let him live in blissful ignorance or should I inform him of the Truth knowing that it could end up leading him to eternal punishment?

 

[Benedicta00]

So then the safest path must be to never learn what a mortal sin is. That way I have absolutely no chance of committing one.

And look at all you would be missing? I don’t know about you about all this knowledge that can damn my soul also allows me a chance at more glory in heaven and to know God and all his wonder- to everyday find out more and more about him. Just because this knowledge can damn me, should I want to give it up?

My husband can up and leave me one day, or he can die on me one day, should I then wish I never married him and miss out on all the good things to avoid the consequence of marring him and knowing him?

As mother Theresa said, if we are going to take the good from God, we must also be willing to take the bad. Knowledge that can damn us is one of those things, if we are will to take the knowledge that causes us to know him and love him more which in turn is the only thing that can bring us glory in heaven, then we must also be willing to accept that this knowledge can damn us if unto death we reject it because we know who we deny. If you don’t want to commit a mortal sin, then don’t. It is as easy as that but what makes it hard is dying to self.

 

[Carrye]

So then the safest path must be to never learn what a mortal sin is. That way I have absolutely no chance of committing one.

Well, not quite.

Mt 25:14-30

"It will be as when a man who was going on a journey called in his servants and entrusted his possessions to them. To one he gave five talents; to another, two; to a third, one--to each according to his ability. Then he went away. Immediately the one who received five talents went and traded with them, and made another five.
Likewise, the one who received two made another two. But the man who received one went off and dug a hole in the ground and buried his master's money. After a long time the master of those servants came back and settled accounts with them. The one who had received five talents came forward bringing the additional five. He said, 'Master, you gave me five talents. See, I have made five more.' His master said to him, 'Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master's joy.' (Then) the one who had received two talents also came forward and said, 'Master, you gave me two talents. See, I have made two more.' His master said to him, 'Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master's joy.' Then the one who had received the one talent came forward and said, 'Master, I knew you were a demanding person, harvesting where you did not plant and gathering where you did not scatter; so out of fear I went off and buried your talent in the ground. Here it is back.' His master said to him in reply, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I did not plant and gather where I did not scatter? Should you not then have put my money in the bank so that I could have got it back with interest on my return? Now then! Take the talent from him and give it to the one with ten. For to everyone who has, more will be given and he will grow rich; but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. And throw this useless servant into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.'


Philosophers have something called actuality and potentiality. This seems like a fitting, though unusual example of it.

 

[marciadietrich]

DT, I'm not sure it is as black and white as that. Just because you have some knowledge doesn't mean you have a total understanding or a total consent of will in every case. Just because he doesn't have an explicit knowledge doesn't mean his conscience has never tugged at him about sleeping in.

Ignorance can excuse, but it isn't a guarantee to excuse you from something that is objectively wrong. As we all have God's law written on our heart and have to respond to His callings in our life regardless of our head knowledge.

Marcia

 

[Dream]

My husband can up and leave me one day, or he can die on me one day, should I then wish I never married him and miss out on all the good things to avoid the consequence of marring him and knowing him?

But this is completly different. Your husband can die on you one day whether you knew it was possible or not.

Skipping Mass, however, will only be a mortal sin only if you know that it is a grave sin.

 

[Benedicta00]

I'm not worrying about the guy sleeping in nor am I jealous of Him. I enjoy going to Mass and try to do so every day.

I just don't understand how I can be held to such a higher standard because I know two things my friend does not:
1) Skipping Mass is a grave sin.
2) For a sin to be mortal, it needs to be of grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent.

Because I took the time to research that, I might end up getting eternally punished.

Should I tell my friend of these two things? If I do inform him of these things and he chooses to go to Mass every week, then only good has been done. But if I inform him and he still refuses to go to Mass, then I might have helped in sending him to Hell.

Should I let him live in blissful ignorance or should I inform him of the Truth knowing that it could end up leading him to eternal punishment?

No, you go to hell not because you know but because you choose not to go.

If your friend goes to hell, it is because he wants to, not because he didn’t know missing mass was a sin and then you told him, and then he still didn’t go.

You can not send anyone to hell. We all have free will, we all make our choices in this life.

 

[ThereseOfLisieux]

Alright, then skip the whole vacation idea. Let's just say I wanted to sleep in on Sunday morning. Why is it so terrible for me to do so, but it's really not that big of a deal for my friend? Where is the justice in that?

Isn't that saying that ignorance is bliss?

Our goal as Christians is to become more Christ-like. To build a relationship with God, and to become more holy as time goes on. We attain heaven by becoming holy, not perfectly holy as God is, but increasingly holier with time. This is where our salvation is based, in our own work toward holiness. As we become more holy we become closer to God, and we eventually attain heaven, either immediately at the end of life, or after experiencing the purifying fire of pergatory. Prayer, Mass, and all of the sacraments are our way of gaining holiness.

In the same way that prayer, mass and the sacraments move us toward God, sin moves us away. Repenting of our sin and confessing our sin we repair that detriment to our own holiness.

In regards to your question, if the church is 80 miles away,it might not be reasonable to drive that far. This is where the examination of your own concience comes in. This might be O.K. considering the distance. If you just decide to sleep in, that might be spiritual sloth. Sloth is one of the seven deadly sins. You would definitely need confession for this.

In regard to your friend, is he really ignorant? This is someone who is Catholic, they must know that they need the Sacraments for salvation. I don't know if he really would be excused for this. I think he would definitely be in spiritual sloth. Remember, he can fool other people, but he can't fool God. Becoming lax can mushroom, and he could just become more and more lax as time goes on, this doesn't mean that he doesn't know any better.

I would much rather be in your shoes having not driven 80miles, than in his shoes of just being lazy.

Just my opinion

Therese

 

[Dream]

No, you go to hell not because you know but because you choose not to go.

If your friend goes to hell, it is because he wants to, not because he didn’t know missing mass was a sin and then you told him, and then he still didn’t go.

You can not send anyone to hell. We all have free will, we all make our choices in this life.

No, I myself am not sending him to Hell, but I am obviously taking part in the process. If I had never told him skipping Mass was a grave sin, then he would never have committed a mortal sin this way.

 

[Benedicta00]

But this is completly different. Your husband can die on you one day whether you knew it was possible or not.

You are missing the point; look at all you would miss out on if you remained ignorant.

Skipping Mass, however, will only be a mortal sin only if you know that it is a grave sin.

You have no way of knowing what knowledge a person has to what degree they are accountable, so stop worrying over that because you have no way of knowing. You can’t make a comparison because you just do not know and won’t know the state of your own soul, before God until you are before God. You may not have as much knowledge as you think you have and he may have much more than he ever thought he did.

 

[Dream]

Our goal as Christians is to become more Christ-like. To build a relationship with God, and to become more holy as time goes on. We attain heaven by becoming holy, not perfectly holy as God is, but increasingly holier with time. This is where our salvation is based, in our own work toward holiness. As we become more holy we become closer to God, and we eventually attain heaven, either immediately at the end of life, or after experiencing the purifying fire of pergatory. Prayer, Mass, and all of the sacraments are our way of gaining holiness.

In the same way that prayer, mass and the sacraments move us toward God, sin moves us away. Repenting of our sin and confessing our sin we repair that detriment to our own holiness.

In regards to your question, if the church is 80 miles away,it might not be reasonable to drive that far. This is where the examination of your own concience comes in. This might be O.K. considering the distance. If you just decide to sleep in, that might be spiritual sloth. Sloth is one of the seven deadly sins. You would definitely need confession for this.

In regard to your friend, is he really ignorant? This is someone who is Catholic, they must know that they need the Sacraments for salvation. I don't know if he really would be excused for this. I think he would definitely be in spiritual sloth. Remember, he can fool other people, but he can't fool God. Becoming lax can mushroom, and he could just become more and more lax as time goes on, this doesn't mean that he doesn't know any better.

I would much rather be in your shoes having not driven 80miles, than in his shoes of just being lazy.

Just my opinion

Therese

But this all goes back to the beginning again. One cannot committ a mortal sin if they never learn what a mortal sin is. Therefore one would have to conclude that never learning about a mortal sin is the safe way to go.

If I had children and raised them without informing them what a mortal sin is, I have done something wrong, but I can rest easy at night knowing my children aren't sinning mortally.