It is still NOT okay to eat pork.

[tackattack]

My proof is the fact that you have no proof! lol.

What covenant was John the Baptist under?

What covenant was Messiah under?

What covenant was Elizabeth and Zechariah under?

What covenant was the thief on the cross under?

All of them, before and since saved by faith in the cross. Those now look back to the cross, and those prior looked forward to the cross. Both believe in the Messiah and sovereignty of God. Perhaps we're not that different.
God Bless,
Dave

 

[bbbbbbb]

The Ten Commandments are also not in the NT (New Testament Covenant).

So, Joey, is all unhealthiness the direct result of sin?

 

[JoeyArnold]

So, Joey, is all unhealthiness the direct result of sin?

Mortality is the result of imperfection.

 

[apache1]

Not trying to sound like a smart aleck, but seems like more posts about this subject than just about anything else on these forums (including the sexuality posts). Until I started reading these posts a few days back, I never really thought "pork" would be so controversial and and such a hot topic, at least outside of the Muslim world. Funny how Jews and Muslims, who at least in Middle East are at odds with each other in so many ways, share the religious disdain for pork. If you think "pig" is an abomination against the Lord, then by all means respect your conscious, but is not a problem for me. I don't think eating pork is a sin, nor am I a vegetarian or vegan than thinks any meat or meat products is "gross", or "murdering an animal" (cruelty to animals is one thing, but food on the table is another, the Good Lord made the "beasts of the field" for human consumption).

 

[bbbbbbb]

Mortality is the result of imperfection.

Yes, we all know that. In fact, we know that the wages of sin is death. However, you have still evaded my question. A simple yes or no will suffice. Is all unhealthiness the direct result of sin?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not trying to sound like a smart aleck, but seems like more posts about this subject than just about anything else on these forums (including the sexuality posts). Until I started reading these posts a few days back, I never really thought "pork" would be so controversial and and such a hot topic, at least outside of the Muslim world. Funny how Jews and Muslims, who at least in Middle East are at odds with each other in so many ways, share the religious disdain for pork. If you think "pig" is an abomination against the Lord, then by all means respect your conscious, but is not a problem for me. I don't think eating pork is a sin, nor am I a vegetarian or vegan than thinks any meat or meat products is "gross", or "murdering an animal" (cruelty to animals is one thing, but food on the table is another, the Good Lord made the "beasts of the field" for human consumption).

I find it ironic that tho Muslims do not consume pork, some of them raise the pig to sell to those that consume it.....


http://www.christianforums.com/t2885502/#post23233639
Why Christians do eat pork despite its forbidden in the bible?!!

Morocco Pig farms bloom in Muslim Morocco thanks to tourism - eTurboNews.com

"I'm a practising Muslim. I don't eat pork and I don't drink alcohol but it's just a breeding operation like any other and no Imam has ever reprimanded me for it," he said of raising pigs -- whose consumption is prohibited in both Islam and Judaism.

 

[Laureate]

I find it ironic that tho Muslims do not consume pork, some of them raise the pig to sell to those that consume it.....:

[/SIZE]

Torn beast were also forbidden to eat, but it was permitted to give to a stranger.

Hey, apache1, 'the good Lord made the beast of the field to be consumed',??? Can you back that up with scripture, or is that a conveneint assumption?

 

[TruthWave7]

Not trying to sound like a smart aleck, but seems like more posts about this subject than just about anything else on these forums (including the sexuality posts). Until I started reading these posts a few days back, I never really thought "pork" would be so controversial and and such a hot topic, at least outside of the Muslim world. Funny how Jews and Muslims, who at least in Middle East are at odds with each other in so many ways, share the religious disdain for pork. If you think "pig" is an abomination against the Lord, then by all means respect your conscious, but is not a problem for me. I don't think eating pork is a sin, nor am I a vegetarian or vegan than thinks any meat or meat products is "gross", or "murdering an animal" (cruelty to animals is one thing, but food on the table is another, the Good Lord made the "beasts of the field" for human consumption).

In the beginning man's original diet was Vegan: Fruits, nuts, and grains. Note, Genesis 1:29

29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;

God designated the green plants for the "beasts":

Genesis 30, and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”

This recent block buster study by Harvard University confirms the plant based diet vs the red meat carnivore diet, hands down! Note, the link below:

Harvard’s Meat and Mortality Studies | NutritionFacts.org

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Torn beast were also forbidden to eat, but it was permitted to give to a stranger.

How compassionate that was of them.
Now I know how Job felt

Job 19:15 One sojourning of house of me and maid-servants of me
to alien/02114 zuwr they are reckoning me, foreign-one/05237 nokriy I became in eyes of them.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7575449/#post57969475
What the Sabbath used to mean

 

[TruthWave7]

So, Joey, is all unhealthiness the direct result of sin?

Of course not. Mankind is born in sin, since the fall of mankind, but ignoring God's dietary laws will degrade your health and increase the likely hood of disease. So why not obey the dietary laws given by a loving God for our benefit?

 

[neutralino7]

In the beginning man's original diet was Vegan: Fruits, nuts, and grains. Note, Genesis 1:29

29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;

God designated the green plants for the "beasts":

Genesis 30, and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”

This recent block buster study by Harvard University confirms the plant based diet vs the red meat carnivore diet, hands down! Note, the link below:

Harvard’s Meat and Mortality Studies | NutritionFacts.org

This was given to us before Adam sinned. And, when he sinned, not only did we become confused (on everything,) but the animals who were given green herb to eat became confused also. Thus, lions, tigers, bears, etc. eat meat instead of the green plants. Dogs become scavengers that eat anything, and swine become devourers of everything from mud to fecal matter.

When the flood happened, God said we can eat things other than a vegan diet:

"Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; even as the green plants have I given you all things." Genesis 9:3.

Eventually, we became part of societies to which food was an "anything goes" situation, instead of "nourishing the body for God's sake" situation. God made it implicit that food was for nourishment and to keep the body healthy, not to defile it. However, the Hebrews (especially in Egypt) didn't remember, care, or realize this, so God made it explicit in Leviticus 11.

 

[neutralino7]

Let's look at the dietary laws since (I do not believe) the food laws were completely laid out on this thread. It should be obvious the intent of God was to protect us from dying quicker than we already are (because of sin,) and to have a healthy and nourished body reflective of God's perfection and holiness.

Land Creatures:

And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,

Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.


Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.


Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.


And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.


And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.


And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.


Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Leviticus 11:1-7


Why clovenfoot beasts that chew the cud? Because they chew the cud - the mechanically digested greenery (cellulose) that God gave to them from the beginning. Moreover, these animals have complex digestive systems that process and filter wastes. They are, therefore, literally clean. Moreover, they are eating food that is getting its energy directly from the sun - first-rate energy. Eating a cow would be tantamount to digesting meat of an animal that eats only plant matter.



Why clovenfoot beast in general? Because these type of animals represent grazing animals in general. It takes long periods of time to digest their food, which means their digestive systems spend plenty of time filtering toxins from the body and, thus, flesh. The camel, though it chews the cud, also eats bones, fish, and even leather. Therefore, eating a camel would defile one's self because you are eating the processed meat of something that, in addition to eating cud, eats bones random animals, possibly unclean fish, and the skin of possibly unclean animals. Hares, coneys, etc. have quick digestion, so much of the meat is a depository for toxins unfiltered. Moreover, split hoof was a symbolic allusion spiritual choice, or "free" will.



A swine will eat anything, therefore, it should be obvious that it is unclean. Moreover, the command to not touch its carcase is because since swine eat anything, they are full of parasites. Whereas it may take 8+ hours for parasites to permeate outside a cow's untouched warm carcase, it only takes a few hours for parasites to permeate the outside of a swine's carcase. In a time where people killed, butchered, bled and cleaned their own animals (which should still happen today for safety reasons - read: pink slime,) a few hours is not enough time to prepare meat before it is infested with visible parasites. Unless you nearly scorch pork meat, there may still be living parasites. Also, since swine do not have complex digestive systems like cows, their foul diet is deposited in the meat, making it toxic. This is why pork is so salty, because the meat is toxic and those toxins are stored in its thick fat and flesh.

 

[neutralino7]

Sea Creatures:

These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.


And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:


They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.


Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Leviticus 11:8-12


Fish with scales and fins, though they may scavenge or eat other fish, have a digestive system that is capable of preventing toxins and poisons from entering their flesh. This makes them literally clean. (Of course, farm-raised fish are not wild, and some toxins like mercury, PCBs, and other carcinogens can make any fish unclean.) Fish with scales or fins do not have this feature. For example, the catfish only has fins - it has skin instead of scales. Moreover, the catfish menstruates. Obviously all shell-fish are unclean. Likewise, sea-snakes, alligator, crocodiles, etc., are unclean because they do not have fins, but may or may not have scales.



Fowls, Including Insects:

And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,


And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;


Every raven after his kind;


And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,


And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,


And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,


And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.


All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.


Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;


Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.


But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.


And for these ye shall be unclean: whosoever toucheth the carcase of them shall be unclean until the even.


And whosoever beareth ought of the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

Leviticus 11:13-25

The fowls listed as unclean are carrion eaters, birds of prey, or even primarily blood. The flying insects locust, grasshopper, and crickets eat vegetation. Therefore, they are literally clean to eat.

 

[neutralino7]

More Land Animals, Handling Unclean Creatures that Contact Other Things:

The carcases of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not clovenfooted, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean.


And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcase shall be unclean until the even.


And he that beareth the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: they are unclean unto you.


These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind,


And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole.


These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even.


And upon whatsoever any of them, when they are dead, doth fall, it shall be unclean; whether it be any vessel of wood, or raiment, or skin, or sack, whatsoever vessel it be, wherein any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed.


And every earthen vessel, whereinto any of them falleth, whatsoever is in it shall be unclean; and ye shall break it.


Of all meat which may be eaten, that on which such water cometh shall be unclean: and all drink that may be drunk in every such vessel shall be unclean.


And every thing whereupon any part of their carcase falleth shall be unclean; whether it be oven, or ranges for pots, they shall be broken down: for they are unclean and shall be unclean unto you.


Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcase shall be unclean.


And if any part of their carcase fall upon any sowing seed which is to be sown, it shall be clean.


But if any water be put upon the seed, and any part of their carcase fall thereon, it shall be unclean unto you.


And if any beast, of which ye may eat, die; he that toucheth the carcase thereof shall be unclean until the even.


And he that eateth of the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: he also that beareth the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten.


Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.


Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.


For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.


This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:


To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Leviticus 11:26-47

Some of the beasts that are listed are unclean for redundant reasons. They have split hoofs, but not cloven feet, or chew cud. Most all animals with paws are predatory, and eat anything. Those that aren't necessarily predatory still eat unclean foods, such as insects, and do not have the necessary digestive systems to purge toxins. Therefore, these animals are literally unclean.

The creeping things listed as unclean eat unclean things, such as fungi, and feces. Animals like ferrets have a 3-hour-digestion, which means their bodies do not filter toxins properly, and their meat becomes a depository for these toxins. This makes them literally unclean.

When these animals die, the decomposition process almost immediately releases the toxins in the flesh, and deposits them onto whatever surface it is on. Therefore, dead animals on a surface makes the surface literally unclean. Abundant water is needed to wash away the toxins, and provide low density of these toxins.

 

[JoeyArnold]

Yes, we all know that. In fact, we know that the wages of sin is death. However, you have still evaded my question. A simple yes or no will suffice. Is all unhealthiness the direct result of sin?

Unhealthiness is a result of a lack of perfect health. Somebody with perfect health is immortal, will live forever. When the first people sinned, Romans 5:12, it cursed almost everything in this universe. The curse broke immortality & introduced death, sickness, problems, disease, etc. Unhealthiness is a weakness & a lack of perfection.

So is unhealthiness the result of sin?

Of course not. Mankind is born in sin, since the fall of mankind, but ignoring God's dietary laws will degrade your health and increase the likely hood of disease. So why not obey the dietary laws given by a loving God for our benefit?

Sin is anything that lacks perfection. Only God can be perfect. Only God can do anything that is without error. Perfection means it cannot be any better than what it already is. The greatest shot that Michael Jordan has ever made still has room for improvement, progress, which means it was not perfect. Isaiah 64:6 says that all our righteousness (which is the best that we can do) are still as filthy rags. Cain's best offering to God was still trash because it lacked obedience. Abel followed God's instructions but Cain tried doing things his way. Anything apart from following Christ is a broad path, that many follow, that leads to destruction.

That would for sure put the doctors out of business, Mark 5:25, Luke 4:24.

Adam & Eve had perfect or really good health but after they disobeyed God sin [Romans 5:12] plagued the world. So, now, nobody has actual perfect health mainly because we die & dying is not natural & dying is a decline in health.

Leviticus 11:26-47. The creeping things listed as unclean eat unclean things, such as fungi, and feces. Animals like ferrets have a 3-hour-digestion, which means their bodies do not filter toxins properly, and their meat becomes a depository for these toxins. This makes them literally unclean. When these animals die, the decomposition process almost immediately releases the toxins in the flesh, and deposits them onto whatever surface it is on. Therefore, dead animals on a surface makes the surface literally unclean. Abundant water is needed to wash away the toxins, and provide low density of these toxins.

Pigs are pigs, literally. Unclean animals actually are unclean & unhealthy & unbiblical.

Are you Joey? Is Joey a sockpuppet of yours?

What's dirtier, pigs or socks?

Its funny... the bible is a book of geography, geology, medicine, physics, chemistry, philosophy, literature, etc. I am constantly in awe of how precise and accurate the word of God is, and how "science" is just beginning to "prove" the substance of the Word, as if it needed it. The moral of the story should be that God knows best, since He created all things. So, His commandments (including dietary laws) are not a burden, but for our own enrichment.

I totally agree.

I agree with you that there is nobody on this planet that has perfect health. However, do you agree that some are healthier than others? Is, for an example, a quadriplegic who does not eat catfish healthier than a person who does eat catfish?

I am not exactly sure who would be healthier, the quadriplegic or the catfish-eater.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Unhealthiness is a result of a lack of perfect health. Somebody with perfect health is immortal, will live forever.

When the first people sinned, Romans 5:12, it cursed almost everything in this universe. The curse broke immortality & introduced death, sickness, problems, disease, etc.
Unhealthiness is a weakness & a lack of perfection.

That would for sure put the doctors out of business

Young LT) Mark 5:25 and a certain woman having an issue of blood twelve years,
26 and many things having suffered under many physicians and having spent all that she had and having profited nothing, but rather having come to the worse,
[Luke 4:24]

 

[bbbbbbb]

Of course not. Mankind is born in sin, since the fall of mankind, but ignoring God's dietary laws will degrade your health and increase the likely hood of disease. So why not obey the dietary laws given by a loving God for our benefit?

Are you Joey? Is Joey a sockpuppet of yours?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Unhealthiness is a result of a lack of perfect health. Somebody with perfect health is immortal, will live forever. When the first people sinned, Romans 5:12, it cursed almost everything in this universe. The curse broke immortality & introduced death, sickness, problems, disease, etc. Unhealthiness is a weakness & a lack of perfection.

I agree with you that there is nobody on this planet that has perfect health. However, do you agree that some are healthier than others? Is, for an example, a quadraplegic who does not eat catfish healthier than a person who does eat catfish?

 

[neutralino7]

Unhealthiness is a result of a lack of perfect health. Somebody with perfect health is immortal, will live forever. When the first people sinned, Romans 5:12, it cursed almost everything in this universe. The curse broke immortality & introduced death, sickness, problems, disease, etc. Unhealthiness is a weakness & a lack of perfection.

Sin is anything that lacks perfection. Only God can be perfect. Only God can do anything that is without error. Perfection means it cannot be any better than what it already is. The greatest shot that Michael Jordan has ever made still has room for improvement, progress, which means it was not perfect. Isaiah 64:6 says that all our righteousness (which is the best that we can do) are still as filthy rags. Cain's best offering to God was still trash because it lacked obedience. Abel followed God's instructions but Cain tried doing things his way. Anything apart from following Christ is a broad path, that many follow, that leads to destruction.
Adam & Eve had perfect or really good health but after they disobeyed God sin [Romans 5:12] plagued the world. So, now, nobody has actual perfect health mainly because we die & dying is not natural & dying is a decline in health.


Pigs are pigs, literally. Unclean animals actually are unclean & unhealthy & unbiblical.

What's dirtier, pigs or socks?

Its funny... the bible is a book of geography, geology, medicine, physics, chemistry, philosophy, literature, etc. I am constantly in awe of how precise and accurate the word of God is, and how "science" is just beginning to "prove" the substance of the Word, as if it needed it. The moral of the story should be that God knows best, since He created all things. So, His commandments (including dietary laws) are not a burden, but for our own enrichment.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I am not exactly sure who would be healthier, the quadriplegic or the catfish-eater.

Well, according to the insurance industry, the health care costs for a quadraplegic person who does not eat catfish are exactly the same as for a quadrplegic person who doe eat catfish and are astronomically higher than for a mobile person who does eat catfish.

In fact, catfish is recommended by dieticians as a healthier alternative to red meat such as beef and poultry.