It’s Paul For Me

[WordSword]

Even though the word “Church,” which is what Christ briefly spoke of (Mat 16:18), is mentioned in the Book of Acts, the Christians did not know that it is the Body of Christ until God used Paul to reveal this to them. Only all who will be reborn are in the Church of God and of Christ. Unbelieving Jews and all within the OT are not part of this Church; which answers to why the OT worshipers were congregations, or general “ecclesia,” instead of the Church. There is no mention of the word “Church” in the OT, and no reveled knowledge of it either. The ”people of God”—Israel, will be ruled by the Lord Jesus on the new earth; and the Christians will rule with Him (Mat 19:28; 2Ti 2:12; Rev 20:6).
NC

It’s Paul For Me!​

“Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the Church of God” (1Co 10:32). Here, as in the other Scriptures, the Holy Spirit makes a difference in the three companies. By the term “Jew,” Israel as a nation is meant, and not the individual Jew in this present dispensation. The Gentiles are those of all races and tongues, other than Jews who have not been regenerated by the new birth. The Church is God’s elect company in the present dispensation, and is composed of all who are born again.

Through the twelve sons of Jacob, God called out unto Himself a special nation of twelve tribes, to be His special testimony to the nations of the earth (using the Jews to bring the Gentiles to Himself—NC). Even in the days of Jacob’s grandfather, Abraham, God had this special nation in mind when He said “I will make thee a great nation, and I will bless thee . . . and in thee shall all of the families of the earth be blessed” (Gen 12:2, 3). So Israel was to be God’s earthly testimony, and through them He eventually brought the Messiah and Savior into the world. In due time Christ will return and God will deal with all of the nations (Mat 25:31-46).

In dealing thus with an earthly nation many earthly and physical ordinances and regulations had to be given, especially in the Old Testament. Even the four Gospels are linked with Jewish promises, and are really the grand fulfillment of the OT promises to Israel, and they are valuable to us as divinely inspired pictures of the Person, character and work of our blessed Lord Jesus. Like the OT, they give us blessed acquaintanceship with the Lord Jesus, and also wisdom as to our personal walk as children of God.

The Church is an altogether new thing (separate from Israel—God’s people—NC), which began on the day of Pentecost, and was said to be a mystery, hidden from past generations (Eph 5:32). It is a heavenly company, composed of both Jews and Gentiles (Eph 3:5, 6). In Acts 2:47 He added to is Church those who were saved, and that is still the way He adds them. His Church is destined to leave the world suddenly one of these days. Then God will go back to dealing with His earthly nation, Israel.

John the Baptist came as a minister to Israel (to offer the Lord Jesus first, then the new earth to non-Christian Jews—NC), preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom (Mat 3:2 i.e. the kingdom of heaven coming on the earth is at hand; beginning at the millennia—NC). This kingdom message will be resumed after the rapture of the Church when God returns to dealing with Israel (Mat 24:14). The Gospel for the present dispensation is “the Gospel of the grace of God,” and is referred to as Paul’s Gospel (Acts 20:24; Rom 2:16, 16:25; 2Tim 2:8).

There would be no confusion about the instructions in the NT if we would only ask, “Which company is this particular Scripture written to?” Many, for instance, ask why it is that James 5:14, 15 doesn’t seem to work. A dear one is ill; they call for the elders, who pray over him and anoint him with oil, but nothing happens, even though this Scripture promises that “the Lord shall raise him up.” Their error is that James does not write directly to the Church, and does not claim to. In the beginning of His epistle he says he is writing “to the twelve tribes (Israel, which most are unbelievers—NC) scattered abroad” (Jas 1:1).

For Church doctrine and present-day truth for the believer, we must turn to Paul’s epistles (which are written to believers in Christ—NC). In Ephesians 3:2-10 Paul says this special revelation of the Church was committed to him. In Galatians 2:9, he says that he and Barnabas were sent unto the Gentiles, while Peter, James and John were sent to the Jews.

—Unknown


MJS daily devotional excerpt for July 9

“Suffering takes us in condition where truth has us in position.” -MJS

“We will never learn any truth in experience excepting in the deepening knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is the lack of this which is the cause of weakness among believers; bare doctrine is not personal fellowship with Him. We have that which is lovely and full of blessing in Him; but if we are to know it as such; to prove its truth, to enjoy it always, it must be in taking these things as connected with Him.” - John Nelson Darby (1900-1882)

None But The Hungry Heart

 

[Clare73]

Even though the word “Church,” which is what Christ briefly spoke of (Mat 16:18), is mentioned in the Book of Acts, the Christians did not know that it is the Body of Christ until God used Paul to reveal this to them. Only all who will be reborn are in the Church of God and of Christ. Unbelieving Jews and all within the OT are not part of this Church; which answers to why the OT worshipers were congregations, or general “ecclesia,” instead of the Church. There is no mention of the word “Church” in the OT, and no reveled knowledge of it either. The ”people of God”—Israel, will be ruled by the Lord Jesus on the new earth; and the Christians will rule with Him (Mat 19:28; 2Ti 2:12; Rev 20:6).
NC

There is mention of the OT church (ekklesia) in the NT (Ac 7:38).

 

[WordSword]

There is mention of the OT church (ekklesia) in the NT (Ac 7:38).

Yes, but that of course is not related to the "Church" of Christ (Christians only), and is why the NKJV uses the word "congregation."

Albert Barnes: The word “church” means literally “the people called out,” and is applied with great propriety to the assembly or multitude called out of Egypt, and separated from the world. It has not, however, of necessity our idea of a church, but means the “assembly,” or people called out of Egypt and placed under the conduct of Moses.

 

[Clare73]

Yes, but that of course is not related to the "Church" of Christ (Christians only), and is why the NKJV uses the word "congregation."

Albert Barnes: The word “church” means literally “the people called out,” and is applied with great propriety to the assembly or multitude called out of Egypt, and separated from the world. It has not, however, of necessity our idea of a church, but means the “assembly,” or people called out of Egypt and placed under the conduct of Moses.

The church is likewise an "assembly called out of the world" and to the body of Christ.

The one olive tree of the one church is of both the OT (Ge 15:6) and the NT saints (Ro 11:17-23, Heb 12:23).

 

[WordSword]

The church is likewise an "assembly called out of the world" and to the body of Christ.

The one olive tree of the one church is of both the OT (Ge 15:6) and the NT saints (Ro 11:17-23, Heb 12:23).

"Thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree."

It's my understanding that the Jews in Ro 11 is referring to are those who believe in God (Jn 14:1 - "Ye believe in God") but not in the Lord Jesus. The Chapter affirms that they will be restored to fellowship (as God has always done), but it will involve them inheriting the New Earth, and missing the "blessing" of the Christians (New Heaven), for not believing in Him - Jhn 20:29. This passage primarily refers to believing in Christ's resurrection before seeing Him; but it carries the same weight of teaching concerning those who believe in Him without seeing Him, or His resurrection!

 

[Clare73]

"Thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree."

It's my understanding that the Jews in Ro 11 is referring to are those who believe in God (Jn 14:1 - "Ye believe in God") but not in the Lord Jesus. The Chapter affirms that they will be restored to fellowship

That restoration is "IF". . .not "when" (Ro 11:23).
It is not an unconditional promise, but a promise based on a condition which they must fulfill, and have failed to do so for the last 2,000 years now, and counting.

 

[WordSword]

That restoration is "IF". . .not "when" (Ro 11:23).
It is not an unconditional promise, but a promise based on a condition which they must fulfill, and have failed to do so for the last 2,000 years now, and counting.

Israel has always failed to keep God's covenant, but He always restores them and brings them back to Himself; and is why "God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew; and all Israel shall be saved."

I think 4000 years of dealing with the Jews shows He will never give up on them. That's just my opinion! God bless!!

 

[Clare73]

Israel has always failed to keep God's covenant, but He always restores them and brings them back to Himself;

That was before Christ.
That covenant is over (Heb 8:13).
The only covenant in force now is the New Covenant (Lk 22:20, 1 Co 11:25), which contains no promise, only the condition; i.e, to "bring them back requires their faith in Jesus Christ."
For God has one, and only one, saved people in the New Covenant, those of faith in Jesus Christ, just as he had one, and only one, saved people in the Old Covenant, those of faith in the promise (Ge 3:15, 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16).
God has no other saved people.

Israel can become his saved people again IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief (Ro 11:23).

and is why "God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew; and all Israel shall be saved."

Precisely. . .

Only those who actually believed in and trusted on the promise (Jesus Christ) were saved (Ge 15:6) in the OT.
Not all Israel is the true Israel (Ro 9:6). Only the people he foreknew (the saved remnant, Ro 11:1-7) is the true Israel (Ro 9:6).

Once again, Israel can become his saved people again IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief (Ro 11:23).

 

[WordSword]

That was before Christ.
That covenant is over (Heb 8:13).

I like and agree with all that you've been sharing, but there's other teachings that many aren't aware of because it hasn't been known and taught among most believers. True, the OT covenant ended at Christ's death, when the Temple was destroyed; no Temple, no sacrifices, no covenant.

The only covenant now is one that most aren't familiar with. It is the "Covenant of Redemption" (you can look this up) which is between the Father and the Son, the primary passage is Heb 13:20, 21. Unlike the covenanters between God and Israel, Christians aren't covenanters with God in the present covenant in Christ's Blood, but are only recipients of it. In this present and New Covenant God raised the Lord Jesus from the dead after procuring forgiveness for their sins. They are the Covenanters now, and nowhere is it written that man is a covenanter in this Testament.

I realize most believers do not understand this New Covenant (because it isn't taught), but it's what I have come to believe. Thankfully, what what one believes about this Covenant has no affect on one's salvation.

Many are trying to attribute the false teaching that Christians are the new Israel, but it's my belief that when Scripture uses terminology like "Israel and Judah" (e.g. Jer 31:31), it is literal and not symbolic. This passage is an example of Jews who believe in God ("Ye believe in God" KJV), but do not yet believe in the Lord Jesus. This final and new covenant with Israel will still be "law," (Jer 31:33),"statutes," judgements," (Eze 36:27) and "ordinances" (Eze
11:20).

 

[Clare73]

I like and agree with all that you've been sharing,

Thanks. . .

but there's other teachings that many aren't aware of because it hasn't been known and taught among most believers. True, the OT covenant ended at Christ's death, when the Temple was destroyed; no Temple, no sacrifices, no covenant.

The only covenant now is one that most aren't familiar with. It is the "Covenant of Redemption" (you can look this up) which is
between the Father and the Son, the primary passage is Heb 13:20, 21.

The New Covenant is the promised covenant with the people, "the covenant I will make with them." (Jer 31:33, Heb 10:16)

The everlasting (Jer 32:40, Isa 55:3, 61:8) Covenant of Jer 31:31-34, Heb 13:20-21 is the promised New Covenant
made in the blood of Jesus, the atoning sacrifice (Mt 26:28, Lk 22:20, 1 Co 11:25, Heb 10:29, 13:20, Ex 24:8, Mt 26:28, Mk 14:24)
which covenant was given to the church (Mt 26:27, Lk 22:20) and ratified by the blood of Christ.

Unlike the covenanters between God and Israel, Christians aren't covenanters with God in the present covenant in Christ's Blood, but are only recipients of it.

Contraire. . .covenants are ratified by, not made with, their sacrifice.

The New Covenant is between God and those in Christ, which covenant is ratified by the blood of the sacrifice, Jesus Christ.

 

[WordSword]

Thanks. . .

The New Covenant is the promised covenant with the people, "the covenant I will make with them." (Jer 31:33, Heb 10:16)

For almost 50 years now I have found that most Christians do not agree with what I believe concerning Israel's eschatology, and of course that's fine.

Speaking of God's people Israel, God said, "as I have brought all this great evil upon this people (He often called them His people--NC), so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them" (Jer 32:42). This can only be related to the Jews who love God, but are ignorant concerning His Son, the Lord Jesus.

Concerning Jer 31:31-33 and all other OT prophecies related to Israel's end times, many attempt to mistakenly (and I mean nearly all Bible teachers) mix them with Christianity. For example, passages like Eze 36:26-27 is mistakenly used in reference to the Church of the Lord Jesus instead of Israel.

 

[Clare73]

For almost 50 years now I have found that most Christians do not agree with what I believe concerning Israel's eschatology, and of course that's fine.
Speaking of God's people Israel, God said, "as I have brought all this great evil upon this people (He often called them His people--NC), so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them" (Jer 32:42).
This can only be related to the Jews who love God,

Love of God does not willfully reject his Son.

but are ignorant concerning His Son, the Lord Jesus.

Nice try at mitigating the truth. . .let's not alter the NT word of God.

The Jews are not "ignorant," they are willfully unbelieving, and are cut off by God for that willful unbelief (Ro 11:17).
The NT word of God does not present their return as guaranteed, but as conditional --"IF they do not persist in unbelief." (Ro 11:23)

In the NT, which is the last temporal age (1 Pe 1:20, Heb 1:2, 9:26) and the fulfillment of the ages (1 Co 10:11), the Jews are on the same footing as all mankind; i.e., only those of faith in Jesus Christ are the people of God (Ro 11:17-23).

Concerning Jer 31:31-33 and all other OT prophecies related to Israel's end times, many attempt to mistakenly (and I mean nearly all Bible teachers) mix them with Christianity.

As does the NT letter to the new Hebrew Christians, in Heb 8:7-13. . .are you sure about who is mistaken here?

 

[WordSword]

Love of God does not willfully reject his Son.

That's how much God love's His people Israel. He's allowing their ignorance of His Son, until they see Him, but it will be too late to be partakers of God as His children; which answers to why the Jews in the OT are not referred to as children of God but as people of God.

Nice try at mitigating the truth. . .let's not alter the NT word of God.

The Jews are not "ignorant," they are willfully unbelieving

Being willfully unbelieving makes them ignorant of this truth.

and are cut off by God for that willful unbelief (Ro 11:17).

Cut off from fellowship but never from union with God, and is why He has always restores them.

It's of course ok that we disagree with Israel's eschatology! God bless!!

 

[Clare73]

That's how much God love's His people Israel.

You are in disagreement with Jesus (Jn 3:18), for starters.

 

[WordSword]

You are in disagreement with Jesus (Jn 3:18), for starters.

It's my present understanding that condemnation for not believing in the Lord Jesus could be in reference to Jews who do not believe in God and non-Christian Gentiles. I say "could be" because I'm still looking at this passage and others like it for God's guidance in understanding here.

 

[Clare73]

It's my present understanding that condemnation for not believing in the Lord Jesus could be in reference to Jews who do not believe in God and non-Christian Gentiles.

There is only one gospel, which is the same for both Jews and Gentiles (Ac 4:12).

 

[WordSword]

There is only one gospel, which is the same for both Jews and Gentiles (Ac 4:12).

I could be wrong, but I don't think God is dealing with Israel in the same manner as everyone else; and I think He's being a bit secretive about it in His Word. All of Israel's eschatology seems to require inference rather than direct reference.

 

[oikonomia]

Copied from link to seven articles in Shepherding Words on a biblical healthy attitude of Christians to current events in Israel.
The info was copied without permission from Israel in God’s Economy (1) – An Introduction
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The articles in this series will look at the special place that Israel occupies in God’s economy from a variety of angles, including:

• Israel as God’s earthly people based on God’s calling of Abraham and His promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob;
• God’s way of dealing with Israel and the nations in the Old Testament;
• Israel and God’s salvation in the New Testament;
• The main prophecies concerning Israel before the Lord’s coming;
• Israel in the end times, in the kingdom, and in eternity future; and
• Most importantly, what our attitude should be toward Israel and the signs of the Lord’s coming.

May the Lord enlighten the saints in His recovery that we may give Him our full cooperation without distraction that He may consummate His move in this age for the building up of the Body of Christ and the preparation of His bride that He may come back to establish His kingdom on the earth.

 

[WordSword]

Copied from link to seven articles in Shepherding Words on a biblical healthy attitude of Christians to current events in Israel.
The info was copied without permission from Israel in God’s Economy (1) – An Introduction
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The articles in this series will look at the special place that Israel occupies in God’s economy from a variety of angles, including:

• Israel as God’s earthly people based on God’s calling of Abraham and His promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob;
• God’s way of dealing with Israel and the nations in the Old Testament;
• Israel and God’s salvation in the New Testament;
• The main prophecies concerning Israel before the Lord’s coming;
• Israel in the end times, in the kingdom, and in eternity future; and
• Most importantly, what our attitude should be toward Israel and the signs of the Lord’s coming.

May the Lord enlighten the saints in His recovery that we may give Him our full cooperation without distraction that He may consummate His move in this age for the building up of the Body of Christ and the preparation of His bride that He may come back to establish His kingdom on the earth.

Hi, and like the reply. What one must be cautious about is mistakenly correlating Israel with the Body of Christ--the Church. Jewish believers in God (Jn 14:1 "Ye believe in God" KJV) are a separate entity from the Christian Church of the Lord Jesus. They will inherit the land, which is the New Earth; and the Church will inherit the New Heaven, and rule over the New Earth with the Lord Jesus from there! Go bless!

 

[oikonomia]

Hi, and like the reply. What one must be cautious about is mistakenly correlating Israel with the Body of Christ--the Church. Jewish believers in God (Jn 14:1 "Ye believe in God" KJV) are a separate entity from the Christian Church of the Lord Jesus. They will inherit the land, which is the New Earth; and the Church will inherit the New Heaven, and rule over the New Earth with the Lord Jesus from there! Go bless!

Hi. Before I reply did you read any of the articles?

I am sure I have read 1-4 and 7, possibly 5.
I will not be too annoyed if you honestly answer that you haven't read any.
Just be honest.

You see "correlating Israel with the Body of Christ" causes me to ask myself "Where did WordSword read that?"
So, if my curiosity is naive, give me a quote. That'll fix me.

Also the church not inheriting "these things" does not include the new earth as well as the heaven ???
You're going to have to defend that.

Revelation 21:1 - And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and the sea is no more.
Compare:
Revelation 21:7 - He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be God to him, and he will be a son to Me.

On what basis do you interpret "these things" to exclude the new earth?

And according to the Apostle Peter writing to Christians (who are of course members of the Body of Christ) we expect new heavens AND new earth not new heavens only. Am I right?

But according to His promise we are expecting new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells. (2 Pet. 3:13)

I am a none Jew. And this letter is written for me also. Look at the opening salutation.
I have equally precious faith with all those who have believed into Christ.

Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have been allotted faith equally precious as ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: (2 Peter 1:1)