Issues in Scienceville.

[Insane_Duck]

You have Heaven or Hell. What horse do you want to back?

Well... Yahweh, Zeus, FSM, Allah, Vishnu, Ra, and Thor would be just a few horses. You could also back a not (necessarily) all powerful deistic God, or an all knowing cosmic rabbit. With extra-(time, space, logic, our dimension) deities, there are an infinite amount horses to choose from.

 

[Insane_Duck]

Or on that logic, why should he pick your particular "brand of crazy" which outlines a belief that heaven is a brand of crazy?

Athiesm isn't a belief that there is no God. It is a rejection of the God concepts the atheist has been presented with so far, usually based on a lack of evidence. Your brand of crazy has failed it's burden of proof, therefor it is far from crazy to disbelieve it.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I have no proof heaven exists but wouldn't you rather take our word for it and live life according to God or just leave it up to chance and end up in Hell.

Pascal's Wager is nothing more than theological cowardice -- you find the biggest bully in the pantheon and set out to appease him.

You can't have a heaven without a hell darling.

Says who?

"Guess what? Everyone goes to heaven!" <--- how's that for a theology?

I hope to meet my loved ones in heaven.

Hope all you want -- you will find the truth to be sadly inflexible.

 

[Inan3]

Athiesm isn't a belief that there is no God. It is a rejection of the God concepts the atheist has been presented with so far, usually based on a lack of evidence. Your brand of crazy has failed it's burden of proof, therefor it is far from crazy to disbelieve it.

Semantics. Atheism is a belief that there is no God. Agnostism leaves the door open.

Atheist - One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

Agnostic -
1.

a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
​

2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

 

[Cabal]

Semantics. Atheism is a belief that there is no God. Agnostism leaves the door open.

Atheist - One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

Agnostic -
1.

a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
​

2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

Disbelieve - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

 

[Inan3]

Pascal's Wager is nothing more than theological cowardice -- you find the biggest bully in the pantheon and set out to appease him.

It's not theological cowardice - it's wisdom. No one's asking you to jump off a cliff. Just make sure your okay. What is wrong with being sure? What is wrong with seeking to find out? Why is that so wrong to you or cowardice?

God is not a bully. Satan is. Jesus Christ has rescued us from the bully. You're trying to say... "I'm no coward... I can take this on... I'm not going to let anyone bully me into getting rescued.." That doesn't make sense, NP. It's all how you look at it.

Says who?

"Guess what? Everyone goes to heaven!" <--- how's that for a theology?

What if you are wrong, NP? I really hate to think of that.

Hope all you want -- you will find the truth to be sadly inflexible.

Okay so we find the truth to be inflexible... We've lived our lives and nothing is lost... ?!?! Why does that bother you?

 

[VehementiDominus]

This merely depicts the heavenly man vs the animal nature and not an actual slug.

2 Peter 2:12- "But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish."

Um, or not, because I was referring to the reincarnation cycle of Hinduism.

Nothing there again.

Or not because I was referring to ancient Norse beliefs.

This is merely depicting judgment.

No excrement, Sherlock. It's Osiris judging whether the deceased go to Hades or not based on whether or not their heart is heavier than Ma'at's feathers. Y'know, ancient Egyptian beliefs.

Or on that logic, why should he pick your particular "brand of crazy" which outlines a belief that heaven is a brand of crazy?

My position is a rejection of that brand of absolute lunacy. Along with the above mentioned dumb religious beliefs (Though, Asgard would be epic.).

 

[Cabal]

Ah, evolution, the only science so threateningly horrible to some of our poor little creationist dears they'll swear blind every other religion is true just to win a point.

If they think evolution is a religion and they're so ready to swallow the claims of any religion hook line and sinker then why aren't they "evolutionists"?

 

[Inan3]

But I could also be trapped in this mortal life forever unless I'm a good person through enough incarnations to achieve Nirvana. Of course, not believing this could cause me to be born as a worm or a slug in my next life.

I could have to die gloriously in battle to be taken up to Asgard by beautiful valkyries.

Or I could have my heart weighed by Osiris against one of Ma'at's feathers.

The list goes on, why should I pick your particular brand of crazy?

Because believing in Christ is not crazy or mythical like these. Christ was normal and supernatural. These things are beyond reality. Tell me have you ever seen a valkyries? or feathers that could weigh your heart. or a being with 4-6 arms? Jesus never did things abnormal. Yes, miracles happened but they weren't wierd or unusual. They didn't give anyone an elephants trunk, etc. He never required you to offer your children in the fire. He only requires us to believe that HE died for US. How complicated is that. He doesn't ask us to go live in a cave or eat mung berry stew or anything else that is wierd. He asks us to believe in Him. How hard is that??

 

[Greg1234]

Um, or not, because I was referring to the reincarnation cycle of Hinduism.



Or not because I was referring to ancient Norse beliefs.



No excrement, Sherlock. It's Osiris judging whether the deceased go to Hades or not based on whether or not their heart is heavier than Ma'at's feathers. Y'know, ancient Egyptian beliefs.

Anyways...

My position is a rejection of that brand of absolute lunacy. Along with the above mentioned dumb religious beliefs (Though, Asgard would be epic.).

As previously given, he simply rejects your "brand of absolute lunacy" which states that it is a brand of absolute lunacy.

 

[selfinflikted]

Jesus Christ has rescued us from the bully. You're trying to say... "I'm no coward... I can take this on... I'm not going to let anyone bully me into getting rescued.." That doesn't make sense, NP. It's all how you look at it.

I've always wondered: If Jesus died for our sins, why do people still go to hell?

 

[Cabal]

Because believing in Christ is not crazy or mythical like these.

In your opinion. For many Christians, belief in Christ entails a belief in a literal Eden, talking serpents and cursing fruit and all. Crazy and mythical.

Christ was normal and supernatural.

A contradictory statement.

These things are beyond reality. Tell me have you ever seen a valkyries? or feathers that could weigh your heart. or a being with 4-6 arms? Jesus never did things abnormal. Yes, miracles happened but they weren't wierd or unusual.

Yeah, people walk on water all the time, that's totally normal. People come back from the dead all the time, that's totally normal. Oh, and plenty of other religions have their own resurrection myths, but all those other religions are just "weird", right?

They didn't give anyone an elephants trunk, etc. He never required you to offer your children in the fire. He only requires us to believe that HE died for US. How complicated is that.

Well, the reasons why we need saving, the reason why God needs to kill himself to save us from himself - not exactly straightforward ideas.

He doesn't ask us to go live in a cave or eat mung berry stew or anything else that is wierd.

Unless your name is John the Baptist.

He asks us to believe in Him. How hard is that??

Pretty hard when he is so absenteeist. A bit inconsistent with the claim that he loves everyone and wants to save them.

 

[Nostromo]

Because believing in [insert holy figure] is not crazy or mythical like these.

Don't you think that's exactly what they'd say? You're not in any unique position as a religion by believing your God is the only right one.

He asks us to believe in Him. How hard is that??

For me, practically impossible.

 

[Insane_Duck]

Disbelieve - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

: to hold not worthy of belief : not believe

intransitive verb
: to withhold or reject belief

(The way this debate should go)

C: Do you believe there is a God?
NC: Why would I believe in a God, if I have seen no evidence for one?
(discussion on whether there is enough evidence to posit a God)

(Your arguing tactics)

You: Do you believe there is a God?
NC: Why would I believe in a God, if I have seen no evidence for one?
You: Where's your evidence there is no God?

See the problem?

 

[Cabal]

(The way this debate should go)

C: Do you believe there is a God?
NC: Why would I believe in a God, if I have seen no evidence for one?
(discussion on whether there is enough evidence to posit a God)

(Your arguing tactics)

You: Do you believe there is a God?
NC: Why would I believe in a God, if I have seen no evidence for one?
You: Where's your evidence there is no God?

See the problem?

Hardly my fault if the person I'm debating with doesn't grasp the notion of burden of proof and won't (or, more accurately, can't) back up their claims.

 

[Insane_Duck]

Hardly my fault if the person I'm debating with doesn't grasp the notion of burden of proof and won't (or, more accurately, can't) back up their claims.

Actually, that was directed at Inan3. I forgot that only your quote would show up.

 

[VehementiDominus]

Because believing in Christ is not crazy or mythical like these.

Each of those have just as much credibility as Christianity.

Christ was normal and supernatural.

Normal and supernatural? That makes absolutely no sense.

These things are beyond reality.

If something's "beyond reality", then it's not real.

Tell me have you ever seen a valkyries? or feathers that could weigh your heart. or a being with 4-6 arms?

No, I haven't.

Jesus never did things abnormal. Yes, miracles happened but they weren't wierd or unusual.

I've never seen a miracle, either. Miracles are no less unusual than valkyries, Ma'at's feathers or Brahman.

They didn't give anyone an elephants trunk, etc.

No, he walked on water, made a few loaves and fishes feed 1000s of people until they were full, turned water into wine and magically cured people by touching them. How are they any less normal, or usual, or reasonable to believe than giving "anyone an elephant's trunk.". Not that Hinduism ever claims anyone was given an elephant's trunk, anyway.

He never required you to offer your children in the fire. He only requires us to believe that HE died for US.

Jesus is God, correct?

In which case he requires a lot more and arguably a lot worse than offering "your children in a fire". Which none of the above religions require, anyway.

How complicated is that. He doesn't ask us to go live in a cave or eat mung berry stew or anything else that is wierd. He asks us to believe in Him. How hard is that??

No, he asks us to weirder stuff. Just read through Exodus or Leviticus and it outlines some of the absurdities God expects from us - allegedly.

 

[Nathan Poe]

God is not a bully. Satan is.

Good cop/bad cop -- in the end, they've always been on the same side.

Jesus Christ has rescued us from the bully. You're trying to say... "I'm no coward... I can take this on... I'm not going to let anyone bully me into getting rescued.." That doesn't make sense, NP. It's all how you look at it.

Rescued from what, Inan? One of God's wayward (or not so wayward) employees?

If you let a mad dog off its leash, you're responsible for everything it does.

What if you are wrong, NP? I really hate to think of that.

What if I'm right? What if we're both wrong? Do you hate to think of that even more?

Okay so we find the truth to be inflexible... We've lived our lives and nothing is lost... ?!?! Why does that bother you?

It doesn't -- it's your arrogant attempts to rope me in that bother me.

You've lost pleny -- opportunity and potential come to mind -- but if you find comfort in living out ancient superstition, that's your business.

Why then do you feel so compelled not just to drag the rest of us down into the muck with you, but smugly insist that you're doing us a favor while you do so?

They're your fairy tales, not ours -- be content with that.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I've always wondered: If Jesus died for our sins, why do people still go to hell?

Better question: Is Osama bin Laden in hell?

If so, why?

I want a sincere, Biblical answer for this one...

 

[Inan3]

Good cop/bad cop -- in the end, they've always been on the same side.


Not so and not how it works.

Rescued from what, Inan? One of God's wayward (or not so wayward) employees?

Rescued from death.

If you let a mad dog off its leash, you're responsible for everything it does.

I believe God might see it that way also. That's why He sent Jesus to remedy it. He took the responsibility.

What if I'm right? What if we're both wrong? Do you hate to think of that even more?

Well, if you are right and there is nothing after death... so what? We've done all we can here. If we are both wrong we'll just have to see how it works out and hope for the best. To me this is a such ridiculous train of thought, though, because I know God is real. We aren't in the matrix. We are in real life and God is what it's all about. There is just too much going on to think it is all a big mechanical evolutionary wheel that rolls about in space and one day might all just be sucked into itself and cease to exist. Talk about a fairy tale with a modern twist. One big Sci-fi fairytale.

It doesn't -- it's your arrogant attempts to rope me in that bother me.

I'm not trying to rope you in NP God is.

You've lost pleny -- opportunity and potential come to mind -- but if you find comfort in living out ancient superstition, that's your business.

What have I lost? What opportunity or potential? I can still do whatever I want or can. There are scientists, teachers, mechanics, engineers, doctors, nurses, artists, authors, educators, inventors, professionals, retailists, investors, politicians, actors, actresses, journalists, business owners, millionaires, social workers, animal lovers, lawyers, judges, housewives, etc. etc. every walk of life, every nation, every people, who believe in God. What have they lost? Every opportunity has been taken, all potential is used. Nothing is lost following and believing in God. It is only lost when you don't. That might make you angry but it's true.

Why then do you feel so compelled not just to drag the rest of us down into the muck with you, but smugly insist that you're doing us a favor while you do so?

It's just the opposite, dragging you OUT of the muck to a higher plane, NP.

They're your fairy tales, not ours -- be content with that.

No fairies involved just a loving God.