Issues in Scienceville.

[Nathan Poe]

I don't believe in YEC either. I believe in the gap theory and a much older earth.

I also, do not believe that the 6 days mentioned in Genesis 1 were necessarily the way in which creation was worked out but I do believe exactly that what Genesis 1 says is exactly the way that it happened in those 6 days. I know that might be a bit confusing not understanding where I'm coming from but that is all I'm saying for now.

In other words, you don't believe in Jesus' words either.

I just believe it differently than most (Christians also) because I think the scriptures tell it differently. Just so I'm clear though, I definitely do not see it like unbelievers do either. I do see it as literal.

Just not as literal as Jesus did.

Also, lest anyone think I am saying I think the scriptures contradict themselves, I am not. I think they work symetrically and perfectly together. I just believe it is the understanding of it and the passing on down of that understanding that makes it confusing to a lot of people.

But not to folks like you or AV -- if there's any confusion, you guys can simply make up somethign to add to it.

 

[AV1611VET]

But not to folks like you or AV -- if there's any confusion, you guys can simply make up somethign to add to it.

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

 

[Nathan Poe]

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2 Corinthians 5:18 1/2 which thereby gives us the green light to concoct whatever blather we need.

 

[AV1611VET]

2 Corinthians 5:18 1/2 which thereby gives us the green light to concoct whatever blather we need.

 

[Pachomius]

[...]

This forum does not mind digression, am I correct?
​

Let's move this back to your thread.

Or would you rather go back to the fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, I like very much to hear your views on panentheism.
​

That would not be appropriate to this thread.


[...]

So, I await your presence at the thread on the fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe.


Pachomius

 

[Psudopod]

Yes, I see what you are talking about. I understand why seemingly there is not more evidence to draw from. I don't know enough about the seashells and other things that creationists do claim to be evidence. I am not convinced yet by the evidence that geologists have produced either. It seems to ALL be specualtion to me on both sides. Your idea/my idea so to speak.. depending upon the bias. I know it takes quite a bit of money to look for evidence and I know enough about science that it appears there are usually specific reasons that digs are funded and consequently happen. I'm not sure that there have been digs to specifically look for evidence of the flood or not.

Most of the early Christian geologists were looking for evidence of the flood. They never found any. It doesn't really matter what a particular project is looking for, if they find something else while they're at it. A global flooding of the earth would leave a big fingerprint - on the geology of the earth and on the life that was living on it. We can trace our ancestory back via genetics. We should find we are all decended from one family about 4000 years ago. This isn't what we find though. All animals should have a genetic bottle-neck at the same time, showing that they were all breed from a pair or a few pairs of animals. Again, we don't see this. If you look through the earth, at every point in history, whenever there was life, there was evidence of it. Burrows, footprints etc. There are ripple marks from waves and even raindrops preserved in the earth as fossils. If there was a flood, it would wipe out a chunk of these, and then there would be a period where non would be laid down because everything was covered in water. But yet we still find them.

Lots of things I am not sure of, so I keep an open mind. What I am sure of is God is real! That is something "I" have experienced and studied. I certainly do not know everything about everything, just because I know God, but what I HAVE learned has proved out continually for me. What I have experienced has been in line with the Bible which I believe is God's manual for the human race. I therefore, expect and believe that the flood occured just as it has been written in the Bible. Jesus referred to it in the New Testament and others in antiquity. We do have other historical records where other people and cultures have mentioned the flood. I believe it happened and expect there should be evidence to prove it in the earth. Not sure why more has not been revealed but I expect it is there.

While I don't share the same beliefs as you, I'm not going to argue any of this with you. I can't prove you wrong, and, frankly, I wouldn't want to. I have no issue with anyone's beliefs unless they start impacting on my life in a way that is unfair.

As to your last question, I would like to know what kind of proof there is that these cultures did not come from Noah. As far as what I have seen there is nothing to show definitely otherwise. I am open to hear more if you have that information.

Lets assume they did. What would we expect to see in, say, Egypt, if 4000 years ago the earth was completely flooded and subsequently repopulated? We'd see the Egyptian culture carrying on, building, writing records, burying its dead up until 4000 years ago. Then, they all die. Their builds are damaged by the massive floods. There are thousands of deaths and then no more for a while. Then the decendents of Noah move into the area. They will move in to one area, and then spread out. They live and die, bury their dead, build new houses etc. So we will see newer buildings spreading out across the country. As Noah was not an Egyptian, we will likely see a change in culture suddenly at this point. There would be no reason for the decentdents of Noah to carry on with the same religions, or even the same language.

Now, the question is, is this what we see from the archelogical evidence, or do we see the Egyptian culture continuing unbroken and changing slowly, rather than suddenly?

(I'll continue with the rest of your post later.)

 

[Split Rock]

Lets assume they did. What would we expect to see in, say, Egypt, if 4000 years ago the earth was completely flooded and subsequently repopulated? We'd see the Egyptian culture carrying on, building, writing records, burying its dead up until 4000 years ago. Then, they all die. Their builds are damaged by the massive floods. There are thousands of deaths and then no more for a while. Then the decendents of Noah move into the area. They will move in to one area, and then spread out. They live and die, bury their dead, build new houses etc. So we will see newer buildings spreading out across the country. As Noah was not an Egyptian, we will likely see a change in culture suddenly at this point. There would be no reason for the decentdents of Noah to carry on with the same religions, or even the same language.

Now, the question is, is this what we see from the archelogical evidence, or do we see the Egyptian culture continuing unbroken and changing slowly, rather than suddenly?

(I'll continue with the rest of your post later.)[/COLOR]

This is true not only of Egypt, but Mesopotamia, India and China as well. There simply was no global flood that slaughtered everyone on the planet except one family 4,000 years ago.

 

[AV1611VET]

This is true not only of Egypt, but Mesopotamia, India and China as well. There simply was no global flood that slaughtered everyone on the planet except one family 4,000 years ago.

Keep looking.

 

[Doveaman]

This is true not only of Egypt, but Mesopotamia, India and China as well.

You cannot possibly know this for certain. You are relying on your subjective interpretations of facts based on you myopic method.

 

[Nostromo]

Keep looking.

What's the point in continuing to look when there's not only no evidence to suggest it happened, but also plenty of evidence to suggest it didn't happen?

Hypothetically speaking, if all geologists suddenly realised they'd overlooked some evidence for a massive flood c. 4000 years ago that occurred in all places simultaneously, we'd still have to explain how the Chinese learned to breathe underwater.

 

[AV1611VET]

What's the point in continuing to look when there's not only no evidence to suggest it happened, but also plenty of evidence to suggest it didn't happen?

Remember Pluto?

In Pluto's case, you weren't even looking, and found stuff.

Hypothetically speaking, if all geologists suddenly realised they'd overlooked some evidence for a massive flood c. 4000 years ago that occurred in all places simultaneously, we'd still have to explain how the Chinese learned to breathe underwater.

No, you wouldn't.

That could come later.

First things first.

 

[Doveaman]

Hypothetically speaking, if all geologists suddenly realised they'd overlooked some evidence for a massive flood c. 4000 years ago that occurred in all places simultaneously, we'd still have to explain how the Chinese learned to breathe underwater.

What Chinese?

You don't have any Chinese.

All you have are old pots and pans you dug up in China.

 

[AV1611VET]

What Chinese?

You don't have any Chinese.

All you have are old pots and pans you dug up in China.

China didn't come about until after the Flood.

Genesis 10:17 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,

But they won't realize that until they're ready to.

 

[Hespera]

What Chinese?

You don't have any Chinese.

All you have are old pots and pans you dug up in China.

You dont have to dig to find Chinese whose reaction to belief in this so-called 'flood" is one of amused contempt.

 

[Split Rock]

This is true not only of Egypt, but Mesopotamia, India and China as well. There simply was no global flood that slaughtered everyone on the planet except one family 4,000 years ago.

Keep looking.

There is nothing to "look" for. People all over the planet lived through this supposed global human kind slaughtering flood. What is there to "look" for?

You cannot possibly know this for certain. You are relying on your subjective interpretations of facts based on you myopic method.

We do know this "for certain." There isn't a even a small doubt about this nowadays among real experts. I love the way you guys just fall back on parroting each other. AVET uses the term "myopic," and now the Dove parrots him. LOL! Are you sure it isn't parrots that you love?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Keep looking.

Isn't it typical of the Creationville crowd that they demand that everyone else do their homework for them?

They're so inexcusably lazy that they can't even be bother to find evidence for their own fairy tales.

 

[Inan3]

We do know this "for certain." There isn't a even a small doubt about this nowadays among real experts.

So it appears that YOU group yourself with "real experts." Well, seeings you are could you give us the papers YOU have published and the data YOU have found specifically on this. OR if not could you at least give us ALL the data that supports that there is no evidence of a flood in ALL the world. If you can provide this and not just refer us to talkorigins.com maybe it will help in our disbelief of this so called evidence that YOU REAL EXPERTS have.

 

[Nathan Poe]

So it appears that YOU group yourself with "real experts." Well, seeings you are could you give us the papers YOU have published and the data YOU have found specifically on this. OR if not could you at least give us ALL the data that supports that there is no evidence of a flood in ALL the world. If you can provide this and not just refer us to talkorigins.com maybe it will help in our disbelief of this so called evidence that YOU REAL EXPERTS have.

Now, now -- don't be bitter just because nobody is going to prove your fairy tale for you.

 

[super animator]

If something can be accepted without evidence than it can be rejected without evidence.

 

[Hespera]

If something can be accepted without evidence than it can be rejected without evidence.

kinda like astrology, nessie and the space port under the bermuda triangle that way.