Israel's future and Pat: Your view

[Jesus Is Real]

LOL.. so cute.. going to watch my movie and go to sleep nite nite..

Good night!!

 

[Jesus Is Real]

the feast of trumpets is a good read

God's Word just causes us to be more humbling doesn't it.
We have nothing to prove, but His Love for those who are too still come to Him in time.
It doesn't matter who they are,....just as long as they come to JESUS CHRIST who alone Saves.

We truly serve an Awesome GOD.


Love is Faithfully Patient - We in Him are becoming this as well,
Connie

 

[visionary]

The importance of Israel in last day prophecies....

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Revelation 11
1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Zechariah 8:23
Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Ezekiel 38:8
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Ezekiel 38:16
And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Hosea 3:5
Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

Can you think of others that point to Israel as the focus of prophectic significance here in the last days of earth's history.

 

[visionary]

Oh yeah... then there is also the third temple.

Jeremiah 7:4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are these.

One of the biggest emotional hot spots in the temple mount and the concept of a third temple.

Da:9:25: Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Now doesn't that focus your eyes on Jerusalem looking for fulfillment?

 

[Edial]

You can start one in the Eschatology forum if you want to.
.....

How can I start one since I am not a Preterist?
What am I to say?

 

[Jesus Is Real]

The importance of Israel in last day prophecies....

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Revelation 11
1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Zechariah 8:23
Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Ezekiel 38:8
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Ezekiel 38:16
And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Hosea 3:5
Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

Can you think of others that point to Israel as the focus of prophectic significance here in the last days of earth's history.

Yes, from Jacob, even from Israel a king has come.
KING JESUS. Read Numbers 23

Peace to you my friend in the Lord,
Connie

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Oh yeah... then there is also the third temple.



One of the biggest emotional hot spots in the temple mount and the concept of a third temple.



Now doesn't that focus your eyes on Jerusalem looking for fulfillment?

Ah Daniel 9 again. Wonderful!!!

 

[Scholar in training]

How can I start one since I am not a Preterist?

Why should your beliefs as a futurist prevent you from posting the thread? I don't understand.

What am I to say?

You could respond to my last post and the point that I've brought up, which is that if the tribulation and rapture are in the future, then the Bible is a record of anachronism and nothing more, If I started the thread I wouldn't really have much to say because the ball is in your court to continue the argument.

 

[tylerjms7]

1. There will never be peace.
2. If the Palestinians want the land then they are going to have to conquer Israel.
3. Isreal would not go down without a fight.
4. Thus war is inevitable IMO.
5. I don't believe that God cares who has the land.

DIANE

I"m not sure where you get the notion that God does not care. Firstly, it seems to me that the fact that God is sovereign would logically indicate that He both sees events that are taking place and perfectly orchestrates them to suit His will, which is the ultimate glorification of His Son (phil 2:9-11) Second, in Jeremiah 32:37-44 God clearly states that He greatly desires for His people to return from captivity and enter the land. We can easily see that the land He is referring to is what we call Israel today for He specifically describes it with terms like "Jerusaelm," "the land of benjamin," "the cities of judah," all of these are very specific places within Israel. My conclusion based on this scripture: God cares, and He desires His chosen people Israel to posses the land that He promised them in the Abrahamic covenant. While the ultimate fulfillment will not be until the millenium I beleive, based on this passage, that God does desire them to posses their land today. Even despite the fact that they neither worship nor serve the God that made them a nation. Yet that is another incredible example of the grace of God.

 

[KEPLER]

The importance of Israel in last day prophecies....

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Revelation 11
1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Zechariah 8:23
Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Ezekiel 38:8
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Ezekiel 38:16
And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Hosea 3:5
Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

Can you think of others that point to Israel as the focus of prophectic significance here in the last days of earth's history.

Wonderful Messianic prophecies that all culminated in Christ's death, burial and ressurection. And the passage from Revelation is beautiful but figuratve language for the last judgement.

And once again I stress that Daniel 9 says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about an "anti-Christ" and anyone who says so blasphemes Christ. You people claim to be "messianic", yet you know NOTHING about how Covenants and Sacrifices actually work. How pathetic.

K
Kepler

 

[KEPLER]

I"m not sure where you get the notion that God does not care. Firstly, it seems to me that the fact that God is sovereign would logically indicate that He both sees events that are taking place and perfectly orchestrates them to suit His will, which is the ultimate glorification of His Son (phil 2:9-11) Second, in Jeremiah 32:37-44 God clearly states that He greatly desires for His people to return from captivity and enter the land. We can easily see that the land He is referring to is what we call Israel today for He specifically describes it with terms like "Jerusaelm," "the land of benjamin," "the cities of judah," all of these are very specific places within Israel. My conclusion based on this scripture: God cares, and He desires His chosen people Israel to posses the land that He promised them in the Abrahamic covenant. While the ultimate fulfillment will not be until the millenium I beleive, based on this passage, that God does desire them to posses their land today. Even despite the fact that they neither worship nor serve the God that made them a nation. Yet that is another incredible example of the grace of God.

Umm, she gets these ideas from something called the Bible. Take for instance Jer 32 (which is a continuation of Jer 31). Jeremiah is ABSOLUTELY AND EXPLICITLY applied to the NT believers in the book of Hebrews. Yes, pomises which people THOUGHT were made to "Israel of the Flesh" (unbelieving Jews) are actually fulfilled in the "Israel of Faith" which are the followers of Christ (Jew or Gentile, male or female, slave or free)...

The Bible is 100% explicit and clear. Anyone who suggests otherwise calles God a liar.

K

 

[Edial]

OK. It's in Eschatology under "Preterism?".

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Edial]

I am a full Armenian by nationality. Armenians are quite nationalistic. Maybe because the Turks destroyed about a 1.5 million of them in 1900s. Currrently there are about 6-7 millions of Armenians left in the world.

I am addressing their nationalism directly, especially among the believers. Because nationalism is a poor testimony to others.

I plainly discern a somehow similar nationalism among some of the Jewish believers.

It is plain and it is visible.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[visionary]

Take for instance Jer 32 (which is a continuation of Jer 31). Jeremiah is ABSOLUTELY AND EXPLICITLY applied to the NT believers in the book of Hebrews. Yes, pomises which people THOUGHT were made to "Israel of the Flesh" (unbelieving Jews) are actually fulfilled in the "Israel of Faith" which are the followers of Christ (Jew or Gentile, male or female, slave or free)...

Can you give example of the fulfillment you speak of?

 

[KEPLER]

Can you give example of the fulfillment you speak of?

Umm...I did; it's the called the Book of Hebrews. Try chapter 8, for the quickest summary:

1The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man.

3Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already men who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain." 6But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said[:
"The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
9It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."

13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Jeremiah's "New Covenant" (Jer 31) is FULFILLED in Christ, and the "Old Covenant" (i.e., the Mosaic covenant) is obsolete. The promises of the "New Covenant" (which looked as though thay had been promised to the "Israel of the Flesh" (verse 8: "house of Israel and house of Judah") are actually given to the NT believers (Jew and Gentile). NT believers are "Israel of the Faith"; the "Children of the Promise". (cf. Romans 9:8 and Gal 3:29), thus the Abraham Covenant is still in effect, but applies to Abraham's spiritual seed (the "Israel of Faith": which is all Jews and Gentiles who believe), and NOT to his physical seed (ethinic Israel, "Israel of the Flesh").

How much clearer can Scripture be, FCOL?

Kepler

 

[Rut]

What do your Christian belives sway towards?

I don`t think God care if Israle have the country or not becuase I don`t belive they are Gods choosen people anymore.Why? They can`t obey God how they should do.They don`t know what tribe there are in and that was important in Jesus time.They haven`t any temple to go to.They have lost everything that they should have if the obey God as he want in Old Testament.

Matthew 23 say too

37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Umm, she gets these ideas from something called the Bible. Take for instance Jer 32 (which is a continuation of Jer 31). Jeremiah is ABSOLUTELY AND EXPLICITLY applied to the NT believers in the book of Hebrews. Yes, pomises which people THOUGHT were made to "Israel of the Flesh" (unbelieving Jews) are actually fulfilled in the "Israel of Faith" which are the followers of Christ (Jew or Gentile, male or female, slave or free)...

The Bible is 100% explicit and clear. Anyone who suggests otherwise calles God a liar.

K

KEPLER,

You have been grafted into a partly blinded woman (Israel according to race - The Natural Olive Tree). They whom you have been grafted with will see, by God's Love for them and through your mercy you give them - even in your throughts toward them. As others do unto them (to their harm) they do unto you and mostly they are doing unto Jesus. Please be delivered from your own wise conceits, friend. Jesus whom came out of Jacob-Israel can help.

You can't get away from it,.......this same ISRAEL-TREE you are One With. Unless you have a bitter root that has grabbed you. I fear for you in this point.

Rom 11:24
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?


Rom 11:25
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

WE STAND IN MERCY DUE TO JESUS BLINDING MANY OF ISRAEL AND TELLING THEM THAT THEIR HOUSE WAS DESOLATE, FOR ~YOUR SAKES~ THAT YOU/ME US GENTILES MIGHT RECEIVE MERCY. THEN THE NATURE BRANCHES, WHO WILL BELIEVE ONCE THE BLINDERS ARE OFF, WILL BE GRAFTED BACK IN. THUS, ALL OF ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED. THAT MEANS THEM AND US - AS ONE NEW MAN IN CHRIST. BUT WE MUST SHOW LOVE TOWARDS THEM NOW AND PRAY FOR THEM IN HEART-FELT PRAYERS UNTO GOD.



Be Whole and untangled - a King has and will again come out of Israel--Jacob,
Connie

 

[Jesus Is Real]

I don`t think God care if Israle have the country or not becuase I don`t belive they are Gods choosen people anymore.Why? They can`t obey God how they should do.They don`t know what tribe there are in and that was important in Jesus time.They haven`t any temple to go to.They have lost everything that they should have if the obey God as he want in Old Testament.

Matthew 23 say too

37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.

Hey Rut,

Do you know that God loves Israel although they were partly blinded that YOU MIGHT RECEIVE MERCY?

Read what I wrote just above this post.
There is no more fight with this issue of Israel, we are called to Love,...there is no more strife at hand where it comes to those in Christ Jesus. God will make 'good' all His Words and we can rest in His Love for Israel who God used to birth Christ from. They are blessed, though GOD HAS PARTLY BLINDED THEM - for YOUR SAKE IN BELIEVING GOD'S LOVE. See?

Rut look:
GOD'S WAYS ARE NOT ~EVER~ OUR WAYS!

1. JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS FOR MEN TO BE SAVED, but it wasn't the end
of the Story for Christ - He rose for you to be CLEANSED AND HEALED AND SAVED.

2. THE FATHER-GOD BLINDED ISRAEL FOR MEN TO BE SAVED, but it's not the end
of the story for Israel, they will Come in and it will be as Life from the Dead.

Jesus was killed: (His Temple (His Body) was destroyed - layed Desolate) - but Jesus rose again though God layed the Curse on Him.
Israel was blinded: (Many could not see their Salvation - nor their desolate house) - but Israel will rise again in New Life, though many curses has fell upon them. As Jesus' Life at the end, so will Israel Life become.

As our Christian life has begun in Christ, in the end we too will be more Like Christ's life - raised from death into newness of Life - to Love and to be Faithful in His Love.

Rom 11:15
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Rom 11:16
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.


Rom 11:20-21
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
KJV

Rom 11:22
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Rom 11:23
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Just Pray about this and ask God to show you His Heart as He did with Jesus dying for you, ok?

Be Whole in God's Love,
Connie

 

[Tishri1]

The importance of Israel in last day prophecies....


Can you think of others that point to Israel as the focus of prophectic significance here in the last days of earth's history.

Jeremiah 23:5 5 "Behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "When I shall raise up for David a righteous Branch[ Branch=Tsemach=Messiah]; And He will reign as king and act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land.
Jeremiah 23:6 6 "In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; And this is His name by which He[Messiah] will be called, 'The LORD our righteousness.'[YHVH TSIDKENU]
Jeremiah 33:14-15 14 'Behold, days are coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will fulfill the good word which I have spoken concerning the house of Israel and the house of Judah. 15 'In those days and at that time I will cause a righteous Branch of David to spring forth; and He shall execute justice and righteousness on the earth.
Jeremiah 33:16 16 'In those days Judah shall be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell in safety; and this is the name by which she shall be called: the LORD is our righteousness.'

Yahweh Tsidkenu
Tsidkenu: The root of this word appears to incorporate the idea of being “straight.” As it came to be used by Biblical writers, it took on the connotation of being a “measuring rule or rod,” or “standard.” Yahweh Tsidkenu is translated as “The Lord our Righteousness.” A person who was considered righteous showed conformity to “an ethical, moral standard and of course in the OT that standard is the nature and will of God” (TWOT).

1. 
   [*]Read the following scriptures and note what is revealed or confirmed about God’s character or nature.

• 
  [*]Psalm 97:2 — righteousness and justice are the foundations of His throne
  [*]Psalm 145:17 — He is righteous in all His ways

​

1. 
   [*]The proper name Yahweh Tsidkenu appears in Jeremiah 23:5-6. Who did Yahweh say would be called Yahweh Tsidkenu?

The Messiah was sometimes referred to as the “Branch.” The Jews understood this designation as well as the connection of the Messiah to King David and looked forward to this coming Anointed Leader. In this prophecy about the coming Messiah we are told that He would act wisely, do justice and righteousness in the Land (Israel).
​

1. 
   [*]What is revealed or confirmed about Jesus Christ in the following verses?

• 
  [*]1 Corinthians 1:30 — Jesus became to us wisdom & righteousness, sanctification & redemption
  [*]2 Corinthians 5:21 — He became sin for us so that we might become righteousness

The righteousness of God is not just an individual experience; it is a universal happening in Christ on behalf of the whole race. … It is in the cross that the saving action takes place … For this reason Christ may be called our [righteousness] … The pardoning righteousness that is given commits us to righteousness as a living power that breaks the bondage of sin. Hence, while righteousness is not a state or quality, it becomes right action (Rom. 6:16; cf. 2 Cor. 6:7, 14) (TDNT: 173-175).
​

We can all think of times when Satan has tried to defeat us by making us think that we are failures — we are not righteous enough or good enough to approach a holy God and ask Him for anything. In those times we can confidently admit that we are not righteous enough, but that Yahweh Tsidkenu has provided for our righteousness through the blood of Jesus Christ. We can confidently come before the throne of grace because of what Jesus did for us — not because of our goodness or righteousness. By knowing that Jesus is Yahweh Tsidkenu, we are enabled to pray confidently and withstand Satan’s attempts to discourage us.


http://www.path-light.com/IAM09b.htm

we will be called by this namejust as Yeshua is

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Umm...I did; it's the called the Book of Hebrews. Try chapter 8, for the quickest summary:


Jeremiah's "New Covenant" (Jer 31) is FULFILLED in Christ, and the "Old Covenant" (i.e., the Mosaic covenant) is obsolete. The promises of the "New Covenant" (which looked as though thay had been promised to the "Israel of the Flesh" (verse 8: "house of Israel and house of Judah") are actually given to the NT believers (Jew and Gentile). NT believers are "Israel of the Faith"; the "Children of the Promise". (cf. Romans 9:8 and Gal 3:29), thus the Abraham Covenant is still in effect, but applies to Abraham's spiritual seed (the "Israel of Faith": which is all Jews and Gentiles who believe), and NOT to his physical seed (ethinic Israel, "Israel of the Flesh").

How much clearer can Scripture be, FCOL?

Kepler

Kepler,

Most of what Paul spoke about in the Law and in the Prophets was of the Old Testament,.....but it still made it in our New Testament. The Covanent God made with Abraham - those words of Love and acceptance are in Christ ---they spoke of Christ which if we are His we Have His Love in us because God gave us a new heart and a new spirit that would hold His Words of Love exactly what He had spoken to Abraham. If you are of the New Covenant you would Love all, even Israel - with ferver. God has not forgotten - God has Forgiven - re-read those verses again especially the last verses of Forgiveness. You stand in Mercy due to the unbelief of the Israel, and give them your Mercy that they might obtain mercy as well.

The Law of Moses, doing good things won't cause you to be Forgiven - Jesus can.
But God's Word still stands as a warning to all who hear.
I think you have a misunderstanding of what the Old Covenant was and why it is almost vanished away - almost.

Acts 13:13-16
13 Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem.

14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.
KJV

Acts 13:38-40
38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
KJV

I will pray for you that your Love may more abound, even
toward Israel who God blinded FOR YOUR SAKE.



Be Whole in the Richness of Christ' Love,
Connie