Israel's future and Pat: Your view

linssue55 · Jan 13, 2006

Gwenyfur said:
see...now ya gone and done it....
if I could rep you again I would

I do keep the Kosher laws...I don't think the laws ever change, but I do think it's a path that the L-rd will lead those He wishes to be on...to walk on...a personal matter between a person and the L-rd....

Anyhow...I don't keep Sabbath on the Sabbath...I work here...though I do set aside my Mondays for a day of prayer, study and meditation on His word...and that falls in with Paul saying not to esteem one day above another (don't have the reference handy just now)

there is grace, but there is also law....combined they give us a light on our path

Only grace.......

Yes, Jesus has not violated the Law nor even ignored it; He has fulfilled it! The Law pronounced the sinners doom (Ezekiel 18:4).

The law was hopeless, for all are sinners, and sinner's are incapable of keeping it, that is why God has given us grace, and the filling of the Spirit, 1 John 1:9. But we should follow the mandates of the Lord, set down for Christians and a national entity, Laws of Divine Establishment Principles.

My sister-in-law is Jewish. Married to my brother almost 45 years. She is a Christian too, and follows none of the Jewish traditions, hated them when she was growing up, cramned down her, I quess.

Paul was right. Now that we are in the church age there is no certain sabbath day, for we are to practice everyday as unto the Lord, to study, to church everyday, learn from our right pastor teacher. etc.

Jesus Is Real · Jan 13, 2006

GraceInHim, Are you getting my posts?

Night-night lady. And to all, I bet you rest.

Take Care,

Connie

GraceInHim · Jan 13, 2006

jsisrl said:
GraceInHim, Are you getting my posts?

Night-night lady. And to all, I bet you rest.

Take Care,
Connie

yes... tired myself nite nite

linssue55 · Jan 13, 2006

GraceInHim said:
bolded 1 - the 2 commandmebts he gave if done, then thier is no room for any other sin.. how can you sin when you have Christ within you?

bolded 2 - fullness of the Gentiles..

Grace here is the Exegesis, (corrected translation), from the original language (Greek), as the writer wrote it 2,000 years ago.......sorry, but there are side notes, this helps explain the intent of the writer.....I am still looking for my exegesis on Luke....

(Grace orientation of the Mature Believer - Understanding the Grace of God)

Mat...7:11 "If - and it is true - then you all . . . who are imperfect . . . know how to provide for your children, how much more your Father in heaven {Who is perfect} will give The Good {of intrinsic value} Things {food, clothing, shelter, etc.} to those who ask/'pray to' Him {Greek Syntax means the whole pattern is repeated here - pray/seek/knock}?"

{Alternative to the Grace Principal - In Contrast to verse 11! Legalism in the Church Age - a Switch}

7:12 "Therefore in everything, keep on doing to others as you would want them to do to you, for this is the law {Mosaic Law} and the prophets."

{Note: This so-called "golden rule" summarizes the attitude of the Mosaic Law. This is natural and even unbelievers can do this. This is NOT the rule for the Church Age believer because we are not under the Mosaic Law! The golden rule of grace is: 'Do unto others as Christ has done for you' [Col.3:13]. In grace, the believer does not earn or deserve anything from God, and the believer must give on the basis of their OWN character (and love when filled with the Holy Spirit). Matthew is stating the general principle here. Luke (in Luke11:13) included Jesus telling them they would receive the Holy Spirit if they asked so they could rise into a greater sphere than the law [although they didn't].}

Note: Agapao - agape love is a high form of love - here divine love. Another classification of love is personal and impersonal love. Personal love is based on the characteristics of the OBJECT of the love - not the characteristics of the SUBJECT - should be reserved for a perfect object only - God. Impersonal love is what you should have for all mankind based on who and what YOU (the subject) are.}

Mat....22:38 "This is the first and greatest commandment."

22:39 "A second is like it {Leviticus 19:18}, 'Love {agapao} your neighbor {fellow man} as yourself.' "

22:40 "All the law and the prophets are suspended on these two commandments."

{Note: This is a term for the Old Testament scriptures, also sometimes called Moses and the prophets. SideNote: Their theologian says nothing more. Probably standing there with a hanging jaw! Now Jesus goes on the offensive.}

{Jesus Counter-Attack the Pharisees}

22:41-42 While the Pharisees were assembled Jesus asked them a question: 22:42~~ "What do you think about Christ? Whose Son is He?" They {the Pharisees} said, "From the source of David {the answer emphasizes the humanity of Christ - which is fine and biblically correct - but is only half an answer so is WRONG!}."

22:43-44 He {Jesus} said to them {Psalms 110:1}, "How then does David in the Spirit {periodically endued by the Holy Spirit} call him 'Lord,' saying, 22:44~~ 'The Lord {kurios/Jehovah - God the Father} said to my Lord {kurios/Adoni - God the Son}, "Sit down and keep on sitting at My right hand, until I put Your enemies under Your feet {a footstool}"'?

{Note: All scripture was written when filled with the Holy Spirit. Old and New Testament both.}]

Jesus Is Real · Jan 13, 2006

GRACEINHIM,

Rom 8:5-7
5 Those who let themselves be controlled by their lower natures live only to please themselves, but those who follow after the Holy Spirit find themselves doing those things that please God. 6 Following after the Holy Spirit leads to life and peace, but following after the old nature leads to death. TLB <---------NO PROMISED LAND,.....LET ALONE NO GOD!!!

Rom 8:7-8
7 because the old sinful nature within us is against God. It never did obey God's laws and it never will. 8 That's why those who are still under the control of their old sinful selves, bent on following their old evil desires, can never please God. TLB <---------AND GUESS WHAT, THE HOLY SPIRIT DOESN'T STICK AROUND, HE'S NOT PLEASED!!

THIS TOO IS THE FOCUS!!!

No wonder they burned TYNDALE AT THE STAKE!

Yeah, night night!

Jesus Is Real · Jan 13, 2006

GraceInHim said:
sounds about right.. in grace we remain without sin.. we can still sin, but ask forgiveness

GraceInHim,

That's why there is a Ministry of Jesus Christ, after His
Resurrection, where He comes to us through His Holy
Spirit, to lead us to put the sins of the body to death.

IT'S THE TRUE WARFARE,........but we are so easily set on
bickering and fighting eachother. This is fleshly and
worldly and down right "The Apostle James Says" Demonic. :o

Yeah, James was rolled up in a tree and set on fire
for the Word's He wrote being inspired by The Holy Spirit.
But they rejected God, not man!

Gwenyfur · Jan 13, 2006

so....back to the promised land....hehehe
with trumpets sounding and voices singing praises

Great is our L-rd G-d of Israel

GraceInHim · Jan 13, 2006

Jesus Is Real · Jan 13, 2006

GraceInHim said:
that is why I am staying away from heated threads.. no point.. the love for God counts more then anything.. let his love back to me guide me.. been doing it for a whole year, lonely with him at home.. but still feels GREAT..

Just think, over a year ago, I was a drinking, lustful, thief, blaspheming, dishonoring child, and on and on.. 1 day.. something happened.. and since that moment, nothing has been the same.. all that old wineskin is gone and the new is on.. how can someone change so fast? Jesus Christ comes for sinners.. I am living proof and thier are many more here.. please stand up.. not ashamed.. it is the past and he forgave me. I am a new creature.

Thank you Jesus, my Lord

ahhhhh feels good to get it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love you all

GRACEINHIM,

NO NONE OF US ARE 'OUT' YET.
THIS IS A WALK OF SALVATION.
BY FAITH IT'S DONE, BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT
SAYS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE STILL.
HE IS LEADING US OUT, IF WE WILL ENTER
THE BATTLE FIELD.

SO YOU MUST ENTER THE BATTLE THOUGH,
THIS IS WHY THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS BEEN GIVEN.
THERE IS ENEMY'S FOR GOD TO TAKE OUT FOR YOU,
ONCE YOU PUT TO DEATH THE DEEDS OF YOUR FLESH.

NO,.....LITTLE LAMB.......IT'S "LITTLE BY LITTLE".
GOD MUST PUT YOU IN THE TRIALS TO SQUEZZE YOU.
TO SHOW YOU WANTS IN YOUR HEART, THAT DISPLEASES HIM,
LEST WHAT THE PROPHETS HAVE SAID COMES UPON YOU/
COME UPON ME FOR DESTRUCTION AND RUIN, LEST WE
OBEY NOT TO ENTER THE BATTLE.

vanshan · Jan 13, 2006

A good booklet, written by a Jewish convert to Orthodox Christianity, helps explain in greater detail how the OT covenant is actually fulfilled in Christ, making those in Christ the true nation of Israel, rather than those who are ethnic Jews. God loves everyone, but His people, who have been called out of darkness, are those who have been baptized into Christ.

Here's a link where the booklet can be purchased:

http://conciliarpress.bizhosting.com/orthodoxy_jewish_and_christian_1.html

Basil

Tishri1 · Jan 13, 2006

Scholar, I can see no anti semitism in you but Jesus's word just like ABBA's word cannot be changed

Matthew 5:17-19 17 " Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

There must be another explaination than yours because we cannot teach or even think that He did this

Scholar in training said:
And what does it mean for Jesus to have "fulfilled" the Law? Paul says:

Galatians 3:20-26 (NASB)
Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

what is he saying then? that law was never intended to impart salvation...ok I can buy that

But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

then that means we cannot purchase a ticket to heaven by our works and scripture confirms this ...ok why? so that ALL (even Jews) might realise the promise is wrapped in the flesh of Messiah...

praying · Jan 13, 2006

Public disaster

Pat Robertson needs a dose of biblical ethics | by Joel Belz

For a growing number of people, the definition of a public disaster is waiting for Pat Robertson to make his next statement about world affairs. But knowing just how to deal with the influential broadcaster isn't always so easy.

Mr. Robertson's announcements are coming with embarrassing frequency. It was bad enough in August when he called openly for the U.S. government to assassinate the president of Venezuela, and when he told the people of Dover, Pa., that they had forfeited the right ever to call on God for help. Then, most recently, he said bluntly that Ariel Sharon's stroke was a judgment from God in response to the Israeli prime minister's carelessness in "giving away" the Gaza Strip. "He was dividing God's land," Mr. Robertson said. "And I would say, 'Woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the EU, the United Nations, or the United States of America.' God says, 'This land belongs to me. You better leave it alone.'"

http://www.worldmag.com/displayArticle.cfm?ID=11455

Tishri1 · Jan 13, 2006

... But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

The law is not only ABBA's will, his calling card, his Instruction... (Hey there's my perfect definition! See the relationship to Tutor here); the Law (Instruction)it is a place holder, a substitute Teacher if you will to look after us(not bring salvation or give us our passing grade). The Teacher will send instructions on how He wants his class run in his absence and so the Law was given in the absence of the Lord till Messiah comes AND we see him with the eyes of Faith (believing Trust)But once Messiah(Teacher)comes does that nullify the other aspects of the law, being God's calling card, His Instruction? Does his will change or do the rules change?....Jesus says NO and so does Paul ...What does His appearing do then?

But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

It brings Salvation the one promise the Law tells us we will have once the Messiah comes....The one thing the Law would not and could not do but heraded the promise of...now that we have faith in the presence of the promise, our obedience is not in vain or based on falsehood as in other Pagan religions, our faith and obedience is based in the Flesh and Blood person of Jesus...and what does he say? The rules you have been following in my absence stay! Do not teach and do not think differently! So what did change then? IMO the mode of discipline changed, Yeshua took our punishment! What an awesome Teacher he is!

moicherie · Jan 13, 2006

The earth is the Lords and the fulness thereof - says David in the Psalms so this fighting over land that belongs to none of us, (we will all live, die and leave the land right there) - is a waste of time.
As for Pat Robertson the sooner he takes the meds the better.....

Tishri1 · Jan 13, 2006

Scholar in training said:
In support of my view, I offer the following evidence that the Law was never intended to be permanent: some aspects of the Law are oriented towards the culture of the Israelites, and would not be applicable today (e.g. a law prohibiting shaving one's beard, which one only did if one was involved in the occult). We agree that some of the laws are universal and absolute. But it would not make sense to apply the whole of this Law to all of creation. Indeed, even this Jewish article agrees and affirms that some laws were intended solely for the Israelites and not for all people.

I agree that because we have no temple so there is 50%(my own estimate) of the Instuction (Law) right there that we don't do....And being that we do not Live in Israel, then another say 10% is needless at the moment...And me being a Woman and not a Man changes some of my obligations too (May be as much as 20%). But that still leaves SOMETHING I can, do as a child that ABBA loves, He would love to see me do it... AND of the 20% left in his Instuction, I am guessing that I naturally do 15% already; so the way I look at it there is really very little instruction missing in my life... BUT what is missing is still His will for me, and hasn't been Abolished, and it is up to me to find out what that is, learn about it, and begin to walk in it as a child of the King....

Every effort I take to study and show my self His Precious Kid will also make me a light burning even brighter in this World that doesn't know Him...(which is what Jesus was saying one verse up in Mathew)

Matthew 5:14-18 14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 "Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. 17 " Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

The Hebrew word for "Good Works" is "Mitzvot" which means obedient acts toward the Torah(Instruction/Law)

Walking out His Word, fulfilling His Word; will light up the whole World.

Tishri1 · Jan 13, 2006

GraceInHim said:
what happened after thier deaths to bring this all into Christianity and where did the followers who were still of Jewish blood go.. there had to be thousands which made it out alive from the killings of Christians.

a simple Roman Tax and a few Roman Laws took care of that...
This is an excellent article explaining what happened to Messianics back then... (By Messianic I mean Jews and Gentiles living together as one in the First Century, and living a Jewish Looking Lifestyle)

http://www.torahresource.com/English Articles/Last Fiscus Judaicus.pdf

Tishri1 · Jan 13, 2006

jsisrl said:
Gwenyfur,

OF COURSE YOU MAY!!!

Yes, nobody used the word 'break' your right.
Now you tell me what is Jesus talking about
when He uses the word "HANG"?
Stay exactly with the Spirit of His Word,
read it back to me what HE SAYS. GraceInHIm....you too!

In other words: What's the FOCUS according to the same God, who spoke to MOSES, meaning JESUS, regarding the Law and the Prophets?

OK I can't stand it any more....here it is

It's LOVE hehehe Love is the nail on which ALL the Law and Prophesy hangs anyone who has Perfect Love has never nor will ever break a commandment...I would say Jesus was the guy who could do it!

I try to walk in love though and thanks for the reminder to us all

Tishri1 · Jan 13, 2006

Correction and this is a biggy, specially on this topic!!

Yes as you said, "That is the premise that hangs the rest of the commandments...but-------> and the PROPHETS,........which means even the PROPHECIES!

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

And what was the role of the Prophets? TO PROPHECY GOD'S WORD--speak what God says.
God was speaking through the prophets,
In the first prophet through John, God spoke many great Promises
including THE LAND OF PROMISE.

What re-look what JESUS SAID?

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

FOCUS THERE!!!
HANG ALL THE LAW ON: LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL AND EACH OTHER
HAND ALL THE PROPHECIES ON:LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL AND EACH OTHER.

But we CAN'T DO THIS "HANGING" NOR are we even called to defend
any prophecy of God. WE ARE CALLED TO 'received POWER'
to have our own 'heart-land' cleaned. It's goes back to
the WALK OF SALVATION.

In other words, the Law and the Prophets/and their Prophecy
hangs on THE WALK OF SALVATION WITH JESUS!!!
FOR WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.

But if we are about "The Law"---how do I set up my home,
Or if we are about "The Prophecies"---when does Israel get the Land
we are still WITHOUT POWER.
We are still without God's Spirit of Direction!

the "Law and The Prophets" are an Idiom for the entire TNK- Tanakh :T=Torah(Moses or the first 5 books) N=Nevim(Prophets) K= Ketuvim(poetry and extra writtings like psalms proverbs ect) all of them = Tanakh. So when someone says The "Law and Prophets" they are saying the whole enchilada...there is no mystery message here, just emphasis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanakh

God isn't waiting for our hearts to get right before he fulfills his word if that is what your saying...I understand the love thing, but don't take it that far. God will bring all his word to pass when he said he will, he's not waiting for us to "get it"

Tishri1 · Jan 13, 2006

GraceInHim said:
I will add, when Jesus spoke about the end times in Matthew, he said to be alert.. and with everything going on in Israel .. so many things in the past.. how can we not focus on the land.. it has been like a crown jewel for thousand of years between people.. and the people returning is amazing after over 2400 yrs having thier own country again.. seems impossible.. but it was Prophecised in alot of Prophets..

The Land is his Literal Throne on Earth that is why such a small piece of Real Estate has people killing to possess it

Tishri1 · Jan 13, 2006

jsisrl said:
__________________________________

Gwenyfur,

Permit me to speak this once more to you.
If I might ask you, please.

Then if you have forgiven which means that God has forgiven
you of that anger that was shown up in you, then why are
you getting upset at me,....seeming all over again?

It's the "Much more Love" that causes us to HEAR WITH OUR EARS.
And to understand with OUR HEARTS.

Having to begun in the Spirit we seem to have lost the Spirit of God,
when we get up in strife and in anger that we want to hold on to.
Yes, it has to come up....so that you can ask God to help you
to deliver you from that enemy on your Promised Land.

I think you are judging Gwen right now She has said there are those in CF who can vouch for her and I am one....she's not mad at all! and she said she is not! and you seem to be deaf to what she said cuz you want to push a point that she is mad....Take her words that she is not mad and move on

I think you started with a great word picture but added too much "paint" to it at now it just looks muddied.....

where you should have stopped is at the nail or the word Hang....

Love Yeshua's love for us is the nail which hangs the Whole Word, his love for us is the power of Salvation, Resurrection, and Restoration of all mankind and the world.....if even alittle sprinkles down into our hearts we will in deed be doers of the Word and not just hearers only.

Israel's future and Pat: Your view

On Israel(in alphabetical order):

I don't know.

Israel should have it's land back.

Peace in the Middle East.

Something else.

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