So no idea who this was in this so called briefing? I believe a second NAMED official said something else with clarifying remarks?
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So no idea who this was in this so called briefing? I believe a second NAMED official said something else with clarifying remarks?I literally told you. I quoted the article:
'..a briefing for foreign media by senior Israeli military officials'.
So an official briefing given by senior officials to the media. Oh, but maybe you want their rank, ID photo, inside leg measurement, name of their first pet...?
You really are desperate to avoid reality.
Read it again. He gives the ratio of Hamas killed to everyone else. And 'everyone else' is not Hamas. They'd be non combatants. Men, women, children, the elderly. This is Israel that's telling you how many they have killed.I could find nothing about "innocents" numbers from Israel, and Conricus clarified almost a week ago that although he saw the report he did not confirm the numbers.
Go look it up.So no idea who this was in this so called briefing? I believe a second NAMED official said something else with clarifying remarks?
It's your own characterization rather than what was reported, and Israel has not verified the numbers. I think it is important to establish facts rather than just take your personal opinions as facts.Read it again. He gives the ratio of Hamas killed to everyone else. And 'everyone else' is not Hamas. They'd be non combatants. Men, women, children, the elderly. This is Israel that's telling you how many they have killed.
Time to stop denying the death toll and time to crank up the blame onto Hamas. But hey, it's proportional! Hey, they support Hamas! Hey, you can't see children from 20,000 feet! Hey, it's a just war! Hey, look what Hamas did!
Have I missed any excuse you need to make now that the toll is undeniable?
Go look it up.
The briefing was by Senior. Israeli. Military. Officials. When the people who are bombing the hell out of Gaza are the ones actually telling you how many people they are killing, at what point do you say 'Well, I guess y'all were right after all.'
I'll tell you. You won't. You are embarrassed about the death toll. You never thought for a moment it would be this bad. But you've painted yourself into a corner which is exactly why you deny the numbers.
You are in denial. Your refusal to accept what is happening is bordering on fantasy. There is a disconnect with reality in this thread which is disconcerting.It's your own characterization rather than what was reported, and Israel has not verified the numbers. I think it is important to establish facts rather than just take your personal opinions as facts.
Well, your crystal ball is in desperate need of a severe overhaul. How much courage does it take to secretly attack unarmed men, women and children at play? How much courage does it take to live luxuriously in Qatar while sending others into the fray?And here's another tip while you are thinking about the answer to that. Because someone does something despicably abhorrent doesn't make them cowards. That's the second mistake you've made. Now you think they're cowards and stupid.
That is how war is concluded: When it becomes intolerable.After all of the fighting is over is when the rest of the world will ask Israel “why did these people do these horrendous and futile things that got ten times as many of themselves killed as they selfishly killed? What could make these people do this?”
In the 5th century AD, Augustine first put forward the just war as morally permissible:What I think is of real moral question is this curious concept of "proportionality in war." This is rather a new concept.
We know that. The issue is whether the HQ was under the one they evacuatedNo, clearly Hamas went and moved the tunnels.
Nope.. I think the time for caring ended October 6th.
Guess killing kids is OK then?There are Arab Muslims sitting in Israeli parliament right now voting on how to best finish off Hamas.
How many wardens sit in the prisoner lunchroom?How many jews sit in the Hamas leadership?
The river to see originates with the bible dimensions of the promised land that Israel never took as told. I think the Palestinians borrowed the phrase from some Jews that used it.So do those dumb kids chanting from the river to the sea. They should take note...perhaps had they supported Israel, they wouldn't have been so quick to finish their enemies.
So it is up to the rest of the world to go into a war zone you created and fix it all?Believe whatever you like. I suggest you go over there and feed some refugees. Tell them you're a wealthy Canadian. They don't take hostages or rape or behead anyone. I've got good word from Hamas leadership themselves.
Yes, no news there, of course they must hide being an inferior force. That does not make me disbelieve medical staff that said they saw no terrorist activity at the hospital.It's not that big an area. The tunnels are vast. I've seen them.
Your version of eventsThey made multiple attempts to share...Palestinians chose war and endless terrorism even after they lost.
The thousands bombed to death?Not a great people. They won't be missed.
Correctly? Targeting a highly populated area is correctly?No that's just war. I know it's not the sanitized version you watch in movies...but that's how it goes, that's what it looks like...at least when it's done correctly.
The problem is we will see who surrenders to whom. Bible prophesy indicates Israel will be subdued and even mostly killed.You would think people would understand that the reason the west hasn't won many wars recently is because they think it's about handing out band-aids to the people you just bombed. Nope. Double down on the bombs and horror until your enemy knows the only way out of a violent death is total surrender.
Lesson learned.
Exactly.I could find nothing about "innocents" numbers from Israel, and Conricus clarified almost a week ago that although he saw the report he did not confirm the numbers.
Nope, applying Augustine and Aquinas to what's being called "proportionality" is a misapplication.In the 5th century AD, Augustine first put forward the just war as morally permissible:
What is the evil in war? Is it the death of some who will soon die in any case, that others may live in peaceful subjection? This is mere cowardly dislike, not any religious feeling. The real evils in war are love of violence, revengeful cruelty, fierce and implacable enmity, wild resistance, and the lust of power, and such like; and it is generally to punish these things, when force is required to inflict the punishment, that, in obedience to God or some lawful authority, good men undertake wars, when they find themselves in such a position as regards the conduct of human affairs, that right conduct requires them to act, or to make others act in this way.
In the 13t century AD, Aquinas articulated the self-defense principles which permit the proportionate use of force:
Accordingly the act of self-defense may have two effects, one is the saving of one's life, the other is the slaying of the aggressor. Therefore this act, since one's intention is to save one's own life, is not unlawful, seeing that it is natural to everything to keep itself in "being," as far as possible. And yet, though proceeding from a good intention, an act may be rendered unlawful, if it be out of proportion to the end.
So it's OK if the IDF don't level all of Gaza but only a large proportion?To say that Israel is bombing "without limits" is hyperbole. They certainly are not, or the whole of Gaza would be completely leveled by now.
And, yes, it would be the state that is doing the bombing who would provide its justification for it.
The IDF might view this is as a training video but replace the words "avoid using" with "do use"
"The civilian toll of bombing and shelling is unacceptable. There is an urgent need for States and all parties to armed conflict to review and adapt their military policy and practice, and to avoid the use of explosive weapons with a wide impact area in populated areas.
These weapons should not be used in populated areas unless sufficient mitigation measures can be taken to limit their wide-area effects and the consequent risk of civilian harm."
— ICRC President Peter Maurer
There is no general prohibition under international humanitarian law against using heavy explosive weapons in populated areas; however, such use must comply with all the rules governing the conduct of hostilities, notably the prohibitions against indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks and the obligation to take all feasible precautions in attack.
Evidence gathered by the ICRC shows a pattern of extensive suffering among civilians – especially women and children – when military objectives located in populated areas are attacked with explosive weapons that are inaccurate or otherwise prone to wide-area effects.
These include artillery (guns and rockets), most mortars, multi-barrel rocket launchers, air-delivered general-purpose bombs, and large improvised explosive devices.
Given the density of civilians and civilian structures, the use of these weapons in populated areas is very likely to have indiscriminate effects or to violate the principle of proportionality.
Explosive weapons: Civilians in populated areas must be protected
Winter is fast coming to Gaza. Rain storms and powerful winds have already swept through the coastal strip, scattering tents and soaking those with little shelter in a crisis in which about 1.8 million Palestinians have been displaced by Israel’s offensive.
And with the advent of winter, an already catastrophic situation in which almost all of Gaza’s healthcare has collapsed is quickly worsening.
Women are giving birth in tents in unsterile conditions. Smoke from the wood fires is exacerbating respiratory ailments. Those in need of medicine have been forced to go sometimes to up to 10 pharmacies in an often fruitless search.
“It’s so cold, and the tent is so small. All I have is the clothes I wear, I still don’t know what the next step will be,” said Mahmud Abu Rayan, displaced from the northern town of Beit Lahia to Rafah.
“We didn’t see anything good here at all. We are living here in a tough cold. There are no bathrooms. We are sleeping on the sand,” added Soad Qarmoot, a Palestinian woman who was also forced to leave Beit Lahia.
“I am a cancer patient,” Qarmoot said as children circled a wood fire for warmth. “There is no mattress for me to sleep on. I am sleeping on the sand. It’s freezing.”
This is quite interesting. You didn't actually read it did you. A NAMED official stated they couldn't verify the numbers. Secondly you once again like to tell people what they think. I'm sure glad you can read out minds form Australia. Quite a super power you have there.I'll tell you. You won't. You are embarrassed about the death toll. You never thought for a moment it would be this bad. But you've painted yourself into a corner which is exactly why you deny the numbers.
Did you read the citations?Nope, applying Augustine and Aquinas to what's being called "proportionality" is a misapplication.
If a lethal act of self-defense is proportionate, then its morality always requires that the act and the actor's intention is to save one's own life.If the objective, for instance, of self-defense is to preserve one's life ...
You may be confusing Augustine's comment that, "love of violence, revengeful cruelty, fierce and implacable enmity, wild resistance, and the lust of power, and such like" refers to the objective of the act. Rather, the good saint is qualifying those particular intentions of the actor as immoral.The goal of destroying the military target is to destroy the enemy's capability to continue the war. That has nothing to do with "love of violence, revengeful cruelty, fierce and implacable enmity, wild resistance, and the lust of power, and such like."
Strawman?This modern idea of "they killed twelve of ours, so we may not kill more than twelve of theirs" is a perverse application of Augustine and Aquinas.
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