israel doesn't commit war crimes.

[ebia]

In the scenario, the criminal is firing into a crowd of innocent civilians that are nearby. It happens during a major crowd drawing event, and too fast for anyone to have warning or time to clear the area.

And I say again, there is a line somewhere around 'if you are going to do more damage by taking him out than he is doing, then you can't take the shot'.

The only basis people are justifying Israel's actions on is that the crowd the criminal is firing into is a different crowd to the one he is standing in, and somehow, unstated, the life of each person in one crowd is more valuable than the life of a hundred people in the other crowd.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

In this scenario, what are the rough odds that the gunman will gravely injure someone?

In the scenario, the crazed criminal is high on drugs and firing directly into a crowd of innocent civilians that is in close proximity.

 

[Armoured]

In the scenario, the crazed criminal is high on drugs and firing directly into a crowd of innocent civilians that is in close proximity.

But, and here's the crux you seem determined to ignore... STANDING IN THE MIDDLE OF ANOTHER CROWD OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS. The response needs to be more finessed than a fully auto spray from the hip.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

But, and here's the crux you seem determined to ignore... STANDING IN THE MIDDLE OF ANOTHER CROWD OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS. The response needs to be more finessed than a fully auto spray from the hip.

I didn't say that the cop was going to use a machine gun. In the scenario, the cop is a sharp-shooter expert. He had spent the last four years training and going on missions with SWAT, and he has a rifle with a scope mounted on it.

 

[paul becke]

There are Palestinian children strewn across the streets of Gaza. Men and women have been slaughtered into the thousands now. War crimes? That is far too polite for the genocide enacted by the Israeli state. Not just over recent weeks, but since its very inception. Hamas is not to blame. The actions of the Israeli state over these past few weeks have shown the world exactly why Hamas exists.

Because of the terrorism and genocidal policies of the Israeli state. And no Catholic in good conscience can support this disgusting campaign. Or I have no shadow of a doubt in my mind that they will answer for it at their Judgement.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
SCIM.

Completely and utterly wrong! I fear you are part of the remnant of the disgracefully anti-Semitic Tridentine church, for whose anti-Semitism Pope Francis has apologised. God does not repent of his choices, and they remain the Lord's Anointed, his own flesh and blood; and no-one would be more loyal to their own kith and kin than Christ, a Jew, as of course, were Mary, Joseph and most of the Apostles. Moreover you should be aware that in the end times, as these would appear to be, Israel will be restored and revered by all the nations.

It is Israel's enemies among their Arabic neighbours, and no less, the so-called international community', who are as responsible for the deaths of all those Palestinians who, over the years, have tried to crush Israel, as if they had each personally put a pistol to their heads.

And as for your "extra Ecclesiam nulla salus!", how do you account for the words of the sheep described in Christ's own account of the Last Judgment, the only account of it in the whole of scripture:

'Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[a] you did it to me.’

Not everyone who calls me, Lord! Lord.....!

Genuine, selfless, charity is proof of God's indwelling Spirit, not punctilious observance of church law. 'Go away and find out the meaning of the words, It is love I want not sacrifice, knowledge of God, not holocausts,' were Christ's own words.

 

[Armoured]

I didn't say that the cop was going to use a machine gun. In the scenario, the cop is a sharp-shooter expert. He had spent the last four years training and going on missions with SWAT, and he has a rifle with a scope mounted on it.

That would seem ideal. But Israel isn't acting like a SWAT sniper, otherwise there wouldn't be so many dead Palestinian civilians.

 

[paul becke]

what about hamas using its own people as shields,what about the rockets going into Israel,what about the fact that Israel is the only democracy in the area, how many Jews are committing genocide against Christians in iraq non its Muslims, the way things are going Israel will be the only safe haven for Christians in the area.

ps im a catholic and my conscience is clear ....funny i dont know much scripture but im sure that God promised that land to the Jews so you may well have to stand in judgment yourself

Well said!

 

[Tallguy88]

MOD HAT ON​

Thread closed for staff review.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[ImaginaryDay]

MOD HAT ON

This thread is being re-opened. You will notice that it has gone through an extensive clean-up due to consistent goading and flaming remarks. PLEASE refrain from these types of remarks in future posts and responses and stick to the topic of the OP. Thank you.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[LivingWordUnity]

.

 

[parousia70]

Completely and utterly wrong! I fear you are part of the remnant of the disgracefully anti-Semitic Tridentine church, for whose anti-Semitism Pope Francis has apologised. God does not repent of his choices, and they remain the Lord's Anointed, his own flesh and blood;

Lets stop right here for a sec.....

Does this include converts to Judaism?

If a Christian Converts to Judaism, does he suddenly become "God annointed"?

and no-one would be more loyal to their own kith and kin than Christ, a Jew, as of course, were Mary, Joseph and most of the Apostles.

God does not favor any one group of Christ rejectors over another.

Moreover you should be aware that in the end times, as these would appear to be, Israel will be restored and revered by all the nations.

1)These are NOT the end times.

2) All prophesies about the dispersion and regathering of the Jews were fulfilled at the end of the Babylonian Captivity.

Not one single prophesy in the OT or NT written AFTER the Babylonian Captivity, mentions any other dispersion and regathering of the Jews. Not even one.

3) No Jew alive today can show any genetic relation to a single pre desolation Hebrew person. Not even one.

4) The Talmudic Jewish religion today bears no resemblance to Biblical Judaism. Not one single Jew alive today follows the covenant law of Moses. Not even one.

"These aren't the droids you're looking for"

 

[Armoured]

3) No Jew alive today can show any genetic relation to a single pre desolation Hebrew person. Not even one.

Big call

4) The Talmudic Jewish religion today bears no resemblance to Biblical Judaism. Not one single Jew alive today follows the covenant law of Moses. Not even one.

Says who? Are you an expert on Biblical Judaism and how it differs to Judaism as practiced today?

 

[Rhamiel]

Big call

Says who? Are you an expert on Biblical Judaism and how it differs to Judaism as practiced today?

well they don't have a temple
they don't have a king (well they have a King, Jesus Christ who is of the House of David, but they obstinately reject His Kingship)
they do not have burnt offerings

they do not have the tribal system or the system of Judges

they do not follow the laws of the Old Testament but rather follow the interpretations that came up centuries latter

 

[Armoured]

well they don't have a temple
they don't have a king (well they have a King, Jesus Christ who is of the House of David, but they obstinately reject His Kingship)
they do not have burnt offerings

they do not have the tribal system or the system of Judges

they do not follow the laws of the Old Testament but rather follow the interpretations that came up centuries latter

Does that warrant the claim "bears no resemblance to Biblical Judaism"? I mean, Catholicism as practiced today is pretty different to how it was practiced 1800 years ago, but you wouldn't say "bears no resemblance".

 

[FlaviusAetius]

If a Christian Converts to Judaism, does he suddenly become "God annointed"?

Just to defend this one portion, it shouldn't be a surprise if this is the truth. God could make a bed of rocks become a God anointed tribe of Israel. Nothing is out of his power.

 

[Kurama]

Israel is defending itself. If one rocket was launched at the USA from Canada, you can bet that they would be occupied the next day.

It is irrational to think that there ever will be a Palestinian state if the Palestinians carry on lobbing rockets at Israel. They should take a leaf out of MLK's legacy and achieve full civil rights by non-violent protest (no rockets, no rock throwing, no armed struggle). Remember that the successes of Gandhi, MLK and Mandela came from their non-violence.

 

[Armoured]

Israel is defending itself. If one rocket was launched at the USA from Canada, you can bet that they would be occupied the next day.

It is irrational to think that there ever will be a Palestinian state if the Palestinians carry on lobbing rockets at Israel. They should take a leaf out of MLK's legacy and achieve full civil rights by non-violent protest (no rockets, no rock throwing, no armed struggle). Remember that the successes of Gandhi, MLK and Mandela came from their non-violence.

The issue isn't occupation. The issue is bombing the snot out of civilians.

Your analogy would be more correct if you posited the USA carpet bombing Canadian cities wholesale, to get the handful of people launching rockets at the US.

 

[LoAmmi]

well they don't have a temple
they don't have a king (well they have a King, Jesus Christ who is of the House of David, but they obstinately reject His Kingship)
they do not have burnt offerings

they do not have the tribal system or the system of Judges

they do not follow the laws of the Old Testament but rather follow the interpretations that came up centuries latter

Daniel didn't have a Temple.
Daniel didn't have a king
Daniel couldn't do burnt offerings.
Daniel couldn't follow the laws of the "Old Testament" but rather followed what he could just like today's Jewish people do.


Poor Daniel.

Just to note, the tribal system is still around. It's just that really there are only Levi and Judah left. People wouldn't be able to change their tribe just because the other ones are missing.

 

[parousia70]

Big call

Not really.
I don't need to prove a negative.
The onus is on the claimant.
The observable fact is that there is no Jew alive who can trace their lineage to a single pre desoaltion Hebrew person.
If there were, there would be a claimant who would produce the evidence.

Says who? Are you an expert on Biblical Judaism and how it differs to Judaism as practiced today?

Don't need to be an expert to see they do not follow the law of Moses.
The complete lack of Animal Sacrifice alone is enough to show this.
To insist that there are Jews today that exist with no covenant, no known genealogies, no priesthood of Aaron, no Temple, and no observance of Torah as Moses commanded, has no basis in the Biblical definition of "Jewish".

Now it's Rabbinic Judaism via adherence to the Talmud, created between AD 200-AD 500. A completely separate and distinct religion from Mosaic Judaism of scripture.

 

[parousia70]

Just to defend this one portion, it shouldn't be a surprise if this is the truth. God could make a bed of rocks become a God anointed tribe of Israel. Nothing is out of his power.

I suppose I should have rephrased...
IF a Christian converts to Judaism does he suddenly become "MORE God Annointed" as a Jew than He already was as a Christian?
Does the Father exalt those who reject His son over and above those who embrace His Son?