Isn't war evil?

[Sailor's Wife]

*

 

[Katydid]

SwedishBilbo, I cannot believe that I am coming to a Christian forum, in a military forum and being told that my husband and I are going to hell. To quote from scripture, "take the log out of your own eye before you try to take the splinter out of your brother's"

 

[daidhaid]

jeez this has become tedious

 

[daidhaid]

Rifleman?! Yes, please do! A Regiment very dear to my heart, the Green Jackets.

selections from;
The Young British Soldier


When first under fire an' your'e wishful to duck
Don't look nor take heed of the man that is struck.
Be thankful you're livin', and trust to your luck
And march to your front like a soldier.
Front, front, front like a soldier...

When 'arf of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old *****;
She's human as you are-you treat her as sich,
And she'll fight for the young British soldier.
Fight, fight, fight for the soldier...

When shakin' their bustles like ladies so fine,
The guns o' the enemy wheel into line,
Shoot low at the limbers an' don't mind the shine,
For noise never startles the soldier.
Start-, start-, startles the soldier...

If your officer's dead and the sergants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier...

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier of the Queen!

Rudyard Kipling

 

[inquisitor_11]

You know what? That's alot more meaningful then some of the recent posts in this thread.

 

[Truly Blessed]

I find it hard to believe any Christian can endorse war.

Please help me out here.

Going back to the original question, since each war will be debated well after it is over.

To simplify things try this.

Would you protect your wife and children from a murderer? I would hope even a non-christian would do this even if it would mean killing the individual.

Would you protect a close friend? I would hope as the same above.

Would you try to protect a group of people from a group of murderers. Hopefully.

Is not the above the same as war only on a smaller scale.

What would the U.S. be like if not for the civil war. Blacks still slaves?
WW I & II - supreme murderer as a ruler.
Iraq invading Kwuait to kill more people.

I would hope and pray that a person, group, country would try to look out for the individuals that can not protect themselves.

War evil - no;

regarding another post you did which I dont know how to use the quote on it because I am new here. -I can't believe something thousands of years old- or something like that. So, when your great, great, great, great grandson or daughter walks by your gave and sees your name on a tomb stone they will not be able to believe you existed either because it is just so old. Being old doesn't mean it is not true.

 

[inquisitor_11]

It's easy to reduce war down to that level when you are far removed from the reality of what war is.

What if protecting your wife and child meant killing someone else's wife and children?

Why should a christian protect only their family and close friends? We have as equal a responsibility to protect and look after those who hate us as we do those who like us.

 

[Truly Blessed]

Would you try to protect a group of people from a group of murderers. Hopefully.


I would hope and pray that a person, group, country would try to look out for the individuals that can not protect themselves.

 

[Truly Blessed]

It's easy to reduce war down to that level when you are far removed from the reality of what war is.

What if protecting your wife and child meant killing someone else's wife and children?

Why should a christian protect only their family and close friends? We have as equal a responsibility to protect and look after those who hate us as we do those who like us.

Did you not read the whole post?
Would you try to protect a group of people from a group of murderers. Hopefully.

I would hope and pray that a person, group, country would try to look out for the individuals that can not protect themselves.

 

[MetalBlade]

I find it hard to believe any Christian can endorse war.

Please help me out here.

Not really. If you actually knew about Christianity before you attacked it, you would know that in the Bible there wars raged in the name of God.

 

[Razorback]

Jesus, speaking to his disciples:

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.


Matthew 10:34-35

Any questions?

 

[Nightstrike]

For we are not against flesh and blood, but we fight against principalities...
something like that in the NT...
The fact is, I don't think christians should fight in wars.
besides, what wars were WORTH fighting for?
WW1 and WW2, just had the devils plans set up, and pretty much everything else was for no reason.
THe fact is, us christians are fighting against demons, they are trouble enough of their own.
you think God honestly wants us killing other people?
Did Jesus kill the romans on the cross?
no...He even had some saved by what he did.

 

[Nightstrike]

I think Matt 10:34-35, is talking about the turmoil that his kingdom will cause, people will/and hate us for what we beleive, I think Jesus is warning us of what will come for people that accept him.

 

[Razorback]

The fact is, I don't think christians should fight in wars.

Why not?

THe fact is, us christians are fighting against demons, they are trouble enough of their own.

Demons don't manifest themselves through human behavior? How do we fight them if we don't fight the humans under demon influence?

you think God honestly wants us killing other people?

Some people

Did Jesus kill the romans on the cross?

If they didn't accept Him as their personal Lord and Savior, He killed them. Even worse, they are destined to an eternity in a lake of fire.

 

[daidhaid]

To simplify things try this.
Would you protect your wife and children from a murderer? I would hope even a non-christian would do this even if it would mean killing the individual.

Would you protect a close friend? I would hope as the same above.

Now that you have simplified the discussion to your satisfaction.
I will observe that your examples do not serve to illustrate war.
To answer, sure I would defend friends and family from murderous individuals.
Perhaps I can even say this with more confidence than yourself, having been in that situation. Besides this not being war, you should recognize that deterrence, negotiation, evasion, and escape are often available solutions and preferable to the risk of engaging in combat. In a fight you must prevail, when loss means death.
So rest easy even a non-xian can see the need to defend his or her family.
Still not a war...

Would you try to protect a group of people from a group of murderers. Hopefully.

Actually probably not. I'd look for 911 to get off their butts, outta the doughnut shop, and get to work. You can substitute NATO or the UN for 911.
Furthermore;
I would first expect the group of people to be fully engaged in defending themselves. There would need to be a viable strategy with employable tactics. In other words the way and means and chance of success. Of course all plans need contingencies so things like end points, goals, allies, good planning, and a way out, or an exit strategy all that and more would be essential.
If I was going to ask someone to do this for me or in my name I would tell the truth about what was happening i/e who, what, when, where, why, and etc.

Is not the above the same as war only on a smaller scale.

Is an airliner like a car on a smaller scale? There are some similarities...
Is prostitution like married sex? There are a few congruencies.
Not an appealing comparison though.
So going back to comparing the actions of a person acting in self defense to what happens in a war. There may be a point or two of comparison but no they are not the same.

What would the U.S. be like if not for the civil war. Blacks still slaves?
WW I & II - supreme murderer as a ruler.
Iraq invading Kwuait to kill more people.

Who can say. Possibly we would be a confederation or many nation states like Europe. Who knows the Union might have held and the issues of states rights resolved through elections.
Slavery wasn't the cause of that war, it was used to popularize the war and that is because there was already a strong and building outcry against slavery.
It might have taken a longer period of time but I doubt that slavery could have lasted as an institution.
As for WW1 hmm who was the supreme murderer? Is this something of faux news? Lets just continue to blame that one on the anarchist, who assassinated, the Archduke and move on, to WW2.
Yup Hitler was a bad guy. Maybe this was a just war, I am sure glad we won. Maybe it could have been avoided and there would have been an even better outcome.

I would hope and pray that a person, group, country would try to look out for the individuals that can not protect themselves.

We have that responsibility to consider...
Let's think about that. What if we really tried to look out for the individuals that can not protect themselves.
How clean is the air the water we need to survive?
We could as a nation ensure that drinking water was safe worldwide. How many lives would that save?
We could consider the plight of refugees, even when there is no energy profit ahead.
How about the Palestinians, suppose we stopped blocking UN resolutions and allowed Israel to glow in the light of full disclosure.
Food, aids, secret wars, oh don't take the cat out of the bag.
How about healthcare in America, lots of people need it. Lots of us are unprotected in that respect.
Poverty and education well there are lots of unprotected kids moving down the ladder with their families.
Would Jesus address social needs or would he just enlist in the Army..?

The 1st Iraq war, well that area did used to be one big country the west divied it up.
Kuwait was slant drilling into the Iraqi fields.
Kuwait had cut off aid to Iraq after the Iraq - Iran war ended.
Kuwait refused to cut oil productionwhich would have raised prices, to help Iraq.
Ambassador Gillespie did tell Saddam we had no particular treaty to protect Kuwait when he called her in pre-invasion.
Saddam was a bad guy a horrible guy in fact. To bad we ever did business with him. But money talks...

War evil - no;

war is evil yes... Just get close to one... give it time, tune out the marching band. Yeah even if we have to do it because the alternatives are worse war is still evil.

regarding another post you did which I dont know how to use the quote on it because I am new here. -I can't believe something thousands of years old- or something like that. So, when your great, great, great, great grandson or daughter walks by your gave and sees your name on a tomb stone they will not be able to believe you existed either because it is just so old. Being old doesn't mean it is not true.

Ok I haven't a clue what my great, great, great, great grand parents were like. No Idea what they were like.
Thousands of years your into serious memory loss, myth and legend.

 

[Mother Vashti]

War is the woe-tide of all mankind.

 

[pcm16205]

I find it hard to believe any Christian can endorse war.

Please help me out here.

im a christian and i believe in war if you read the bible it talks about the end times and the WAR we will have against the devil in rev.20:7-10

 

[pcm16205]

Behe's point was very good. Sometimes war is neccesay and good can come from awar, God works in mysterious ways.

Highly Evolved- I agree whole-heartedly with you on the Iraq war. An evil man (Saddam) is no longer in power, but it should not have been done so forcefully. President Bush calls himself a Christian and many Christians endorse him....maybe the real question is whether Christians should endorse President Bush's own greed and evilness.

I had to watch my own husband leave for war a year ago. I was shaking my head wondering why he must go. I never believed in the war, and neither did he. Most of the troops over there do not believe with the war, but must be deployed because this is what they signed up for.

o come on the president isn't fighting this war out of greed or evilness he's fighting it for a safe america and so in case we get a liberal pres who would pass it up the kids of tomorrow won't have to deal with it.And when is getting an evil,dictator with no heart greedy and evil?You are right some troops don't agree with the war but for as many who disagree there just as many who do and volunteered to do this 4 what they believe in like my dad he knew what we had to do and he's doing it. nobody likes or wants a war but there are times like these when it's necessary.

 

[inquisitor_11]

I would hope and pray that a person, group, country would try to look out for the individuals that can not protect themselves.

That's a bit rich coming from an american. I would like to think that a country as wealthy and as economically powerful as the USA would be able to provide some sort of decent social welfare system to "look out for individuals that can't protect themselves". Instead you keep chasing phantom threats that are often atributable to earlier US geopolitics. Looks like paranoid delusions have overcome the real problems once again...

how long to sing this song?

 

[Katydid]

inquisitor,
I guess the equivalent of what you said would be, "I guess I should expect an Australian to be shortsighted", but, see now, that isn't true, because I don't judge all people in a country by their countries politics. Please understand that we as people, do not always agree with our government, that is the joy of the country we live in. We can disagree and scream it right in front of the white house if we want to. So, now, until you live in our country and also see how many masses of people abuse the welfare system we have, making it impossible for us to provide for the ones who truly need it, please do not judge. Remember that all of us, countries and individuals are works in progress.