Isn't time a measurement of motion?

[BNR32FAN]

But the measurement between events is measured by motion or distance????

One of the most logical arguments about what time is I have seen.

A revaluation of time and velocity by Miles Williams Mathis

Not always, we base our measurements of time on the rotation of the earth however time existed before creation when there was no movement. There was a time before anything was created.

 

[RDKirk]

Thats what I believe, time doesn't exist, and is just a human made concept, we only feel the passage of time due to the way we acumulate how matter and energy used to look in previous states.

So that is a thing that does exist, making the measurement of it as real as the measurement of any other physical property.

 

[Michael]

You didn't answer the question about the 'lab'? how big is it?

Any volume of "lab" which offers me the opportunity to employ real and actual control mechanisms to my 'tests' is an acceptable size. How far have humans and their various devices ventured into space in 2019? That's about the current size limit.

 

[loveofourlord]

So that is a thing that does exist, making the measurement of it as real as the measurement of any other physical property.

no we label certain things time as if they are something seperate, movement is movement, not time, but we first label it as time, then assume that it's something unique. It works for shorthand telling how much movement has passed, but it's not something that actually exists as a seperate dimension or thing that we can manipulate.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Any volume of "lab" which offers me the opportunity to employ real and actual control mechanisms to my 'tests' is an acceptable size. How far have humans and their various devices ventured into space in 2019? That's about the current size limit.

So, by your reckoning, the Doppler shift becomes invalid just outside the heliopause...

Michael: "Doppler shift is specifically and *only* related to *moving objects* in the lab"

 

[Michael]

So, by your reckoning, the Doppler shift becomes invalid just outside the heliopause...

Nice strawman. Burn baby burn.

I'm not the one suggesting that empirical physics or lab demonstrated physics becomes invalid beyond some random point in spacetime like LCDM proponents do with respect to the area between superclusters. I think you burned the LCMD proponents with that strawman actually.

Michael: "Doppler shift is specifically and *only* related to *moving objects* in the lab"

You're missing the point of that statement I'm afraid. I'll let you assert any *lab demonstrated* cause/effect mechanism as a "cause" that might occur anywhere in space. What I won't allow you to do (without complaining) is assert that the laws of physics stop applying at some random point in spacetime, like between galaxy superclusters.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I had to chuckle when Justatruthseeker quoted at me from the Hubble's law - Wikipedia article that bases its calculations of recession velocity and the Doppler effect on co-moving points that are not moving relative to each other except as a result of the expansion of space.

Did you chuckle when that same article told you the velocity was not to be confused with a real velocity???

No, you just continued to ignore that and confusingly think of it as a real velocity despite being told it wasn’t to be confused as such.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Nice strawman. Burn baby burn.

I'm not the one suggesting that empirical physics or lab demonstrated physics becomes invalid beyond some random point in spacetime like LCDM proponents do with respect to the area between superclusters. I think you burned the LCMD proponents with that strawman actually.



You're missing the point of that statement I'm afraid. I'll let you assert any *lab demonstrated* cause/effect mechanism as a "cause" that might occur anywhere in space. What I won't allow you to do (without complaining) is assert that the laws of physics stop applying at some random point in spacetime, like between galaxy superclusters.

Isn’t that Dad’s argument, that the laws of physics in our fishbowl only apply in our fishbowl?

To which they fervently object, and then turn right around and in the next breath argue that same thing.....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

You didn't answer the question about the 'lab'? how big is it?

You are the one insisting the lab is only as big as our galactic cluster...... that beyond that the same laws of physics don’t apply.

Dad’s argument in a nutshell...... to which you object. Until you need to argue that point....

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Did you chuckle when that same article told you the velocity was not to be confused with a real velocity???

No, you just continued to ignore that and confusingly think of it as a real velocity despite being told it wasn’t to be confused as such.

What you think I do is simply your imagination, and of no interest.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

You are the one insisting the lab is only as big as our galactic cluster...... that beyond that the same laws of physics don’t apply.

Dad’s argument in a nutshell...... to which you object. Until you need to argue that point....

Your reading and comprehension and your science comprehension are equally impoverished.

What you imagine I insist on is of no interest to me.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

What you think I do is simply your imagination, and of no interest.

It’s of great interest since you keep arguing for a Doppler interpretation when they explicitly told you not to confuse it as a real velocity.......

There is no thinking to it, your statements clearly show you are confusing it as a real velocity even when told you were not supposed to do that.

Keep ignoring it though so you can continue in your false beliefs.....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Your reading and comprehension and your science comprehension are equally impoverished.

What you imagine I insist on is of no interest to me.

Nothing is of interest to you except upholding your false beliefs.....

But keep your conflicting arguments that the velocity that isn’t a real velocity is a velocity.

Keep your conflicting arguments that physics is the same everywhere, except outside our galactic cluster where suddenly new untested physics apply.

You are just upset and unable to answer because you realize we see right through your double talk and conflicting answers.....

My comprehension???

Says the guy that is arguing for a velocity when told not to confuse it with a real velocity....

Lol, I think you were looking in the mirror when you said that.....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Nice strawman. Burn baby burn.

I'm not the one suggesting that empirical physics or lab demonstrated physics becomes invalid beyond some random point in spacetime like LCDM proponents do with respect to the area between superclusters. I think you burned the LCMD proponents with that strawman actually.



You're missing the point of that statement I'm afraid. I'll let you assert any *lab demonstrated* cause/effect mechanism as a "cause" that might occur anywhere in space. What I won't allow you to do (without complaining) is assert that the laws of physics stop applying at some random point in spacetime, like between galaxy superclusters.

But without that assertion of non demonstratable physics that can’t be observed in any lab, they got no theory. So they’ll assert it anyways, as undemonstrative theory is always more important than actual demonstratable facts.

Bandaid after bandaid to stop the bleeding, to the point the original theory can’t be seen through all the gauze.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It’s of great interest since you keep arguing for a Doppler interpretation when they explicitly told you not to confuse it as a real velocity.......

There is no thinking to it, your statements clearly show you are confusing it as a real velocity even when told you were not supposed to do that.

Keep ignoring it though so you can continue in your false beliefs.....

Your misrepresentations of what I've said or think are of no interest.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Nothing is of interest to you except upholding your false beliefs.....

But keep your conflicting arguments that the velocity that isn’t a real velocity is a velocity.

Keep your conflicting arguments that physics is the same everywhere, except outside our galactic cluster where suddenly new untested physics apply.

You are just upset and unable to answer because you realize we see right through your double talk and conflicting answers.....

My comprehension???

Says the guy that is arguing for a velocity when told not to confuse it with a real velocity....

Lol, I think you were looking in the mirror when you said that.....

Your misrepresentations of what I've said or think are of no interest.

 

[Michael]

Nothing is of interest to you except upholding your false beliefs.....

But keep your conflicting arguments that the velocity that isn’t a real velocity is a velocity.

I think even astronomers ultimately confuse themselves at times with their own Doppler shift equivocation fallacy just like they confuse everyone else. It's a velocity when they claim it's a velocity and when they wish to base their formulas on velocity, and it's not a velocity when they claim that it's not a velocity. It's hard for anyone to understand them at times, and half of the time I think they confuse themselves.

But without that assertion of non demonstratable physics that can’t be observed in any lab, they got no theory. So they’ll assert it anyways, as undemonstrative theory is always more important than actual demonstratable facts.

Unfortunately that does seem to be the case. The whole LCDM model is based on unsubstantiated cause/effect claims which amount to nothing more than affirming the consequent fallacies. "Redshift is observed, therefore space expansion, inflation, dark energy did it." "Our luminosity based mass estimates don't produce the correct figure: therefore exotic matter did it". They begin with an observation and simply assert a metaphysical cause without respect to empirical physics, or empirically identified causes of the same observation.

 

[Michael]

You are the one insisting the lab is only as big as our galactic cluster...... that beyond that the same laws of physics don’t apply.

Dad’s argument in a nutshell...... to which you object. Until you need to argue that point....

Yep.

Energy Is Not Conserved

When the space through which particles move is changing, the total energy of those particles is not conserved.

Astronomers claim that space expansion cannot be measured or experienced inside of our solar system, our galaxy, our galaxy cluster or supercluster, yet the moment they get to some special location where humans can never hope to ever go in their lifetime, suddenly the laws of physics go flying out the window. They do *exactly* the same thing they accuse dad of doing and they object to. Irony overload.

It's bad enough that they literally throw laws of physics out the window between galaxy superclusters, but the whole concept of space expansion is self conflicted from the start of the model. First they claim we can't measure or experience space expansion in our solar system or galaxy supercluster because they contain a relatively small amount of mass which prevents space expansion from happening. In the very next breath they pack all the mass/energy of the whole universe into a volume that is smaller than a breadbox, and they claim that space expansion spread it apart. Hoy Vey. Not only does the concept of space expansion violate the laws of physics, it's an internally inconsistent claim from the start, *and* there are known empirical explanations for the very same observation of redshift that have already been documented to occur in plasma in the lab.

And to top it all off, even to this very day, their expansion model still fails to correctly 'predict' what we observe at larger redshifts.

Go figure.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Your misrepresentations of what I've said or think are of no interest.

Your misrepresentations of what I've said or think are of no interest.

Lol, if you say so......

If this is what you need to tell yourself....

I understand..... Fairie Dust is impossible to defend.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

@Michael Corbett

Even their claims of merely being a choice of coordinates fails. Since they are not trying to calculate this co-ordinates decay rate, but the decay rate in the past when the co-ordinates were in a completely separate area of space and are not the same and at a whole different velocity.