Isn't obstruction of Justice illegal?

[Arcangl86]

if the have an arrest warrant - they have a warrant -

if you stop them from executing the arrest warrant - that is obstructing justice.

Who is stopping ICE from executive arrest warrants?

 

[yougottabekidding]

I think it may be more complicated than that. While true, you cant enter a home without a warrant, but you can detain and arrest someone with probable cause.

An analogy would be, if i observe someone being pulled over by the police and they take off on foot and i tell them where to hide to avoid the police, that may put me in some kind of legal jeopardy. The cop pulling them over liekly didnt have a warrant, but they probably had probable cause.

Pretty close - I believe it would be more accurate to say:

If a court of law issued a warrant for your arrest, and you stopped the law enforcement officials from executing that warrant - you would be obstructing.

 

[Speedwell]

if the have an arrest warrant - they have a warrant -

if you stop them from executing the arrest warrant - that is obstructing justice.

And if they don't, it isn't

 

[yougottabekidding]

And if they don't, it isn't

But reality is - they do have the authority of the Courts and are acting in lawful action from a Judges orders.

 

[TLK Valentine]

If a law enforcement officer has a warrant for your arrest, or in this case deportation. That was authorized by a court of law - and you tell them to not answer the door - that is obstruction.

Wrong.

ICE issues Administrative warrants to their officers, signed by a senior ICE official, which authorizes them to arrest a suspect for deportation.

But that warrant does not authorize them to enter anyone's home without permission. That requires a Judicial warrant, which, as you can probably guess by the name, is signed by a judge.

See what happens when you don't know your rights?

Might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life - telling people we are enforcing the law is obstructing.

What planet are we on?

A planet where police don't phone the crack house a month in advance to tell them there's going to be a bust.

Surely ICE can be at least as smart as the local P.D.

 

[cow451]

If a law enforcement officer has a warrant for your arrest, or in this case deportation. That was authorized by a court of law - and you tell them to not answer the door - that is obstruction.

Telling people that they don’t have to open the door UNLESS the officer has a warrant is obstruction?

Might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life - telling people we are enforcing the law is obstructing.

What planet are we on?

If I tell my friend he is about to be served with an arrest warrant, that is ok, then. .... or is the President simply not really wanting to arrest very many. After all, a really, really smart genius would make the announcement AFTER the raids. Or maybe he’s trolling the nation.

 

[wing2000]

I think it may be more complicated than that. While true, you cant enter a home without a warrant, but you can detain and arrest someone with probable cause.

An analogy would be, if i observe someone being pulled over by the police and they take off on foot and i tell them where to hide to avoid the police, that may put me in some kind of legal jeopardy. The cop pulling them over liekly didnt have a warrant, but they probably had probable cause.

Right, ICE can certainly arrest someone who steps outside...or gives consent for the agent to enter their home.

However, most of the time ICE agents do not have a court issued warrant to enter the house without consent.

 

[Speedwell]

But reality is - they do have the authority of the Courts and are acting in lawful action from a Judges orders.

Not always. Frequently they have only administrative warrants which do not give them the authority to enter a premises without permission.

 

[cow451]

Not always. Frequently they have only administrative warrants which do not give them the authority to enter a premises without permission.

Not even if there are a bunch of Mexicans inside?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Not even if there are a bunch of Mexicans inside?

Cue "the Constitution only applies to citizens" argument in 5...4...3...

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

RE: The deportations raids happening -

The people come to the US, apply for asylum, have the hearing - are adjudicated not eligible, the court them orders them deported -

That's the Law

Nancy Pelosi and others block that lawful order in a number of ways:

- Telling them how to avoid the actions
- Refusing to cooperate with law enforcement

I thought obstruction was illegal?

I believe obtruction was illegal , until Trump did it. And basicly got away with it.

 

[yougottabekidding]

ICE issues Administrative warrants to their officers, signed by a senior ICE official, which authorizes them to arrest a suspect for deportation.

And if you prevent them from executing the warrant you can be held for...….

harboring a fugitive

Which by definitions is:

Harboring a fugitive refers to the crime of knowingly hiding a wanted criminal from the authorities. Federal and state laws, which vary by state, govern the crime of harboring a fugitive. Although supplying funds may make one an accessory after the fact, supplying financial assistance to a fugitive does not rise to the level of harboring or concealing. The federal statute, 18 U.S.C. § 1071, requires proof of four elements: (1) proof that a federal warrant had been issued for the fugitive' s arrest, (2) that the accused had knowledge that a warrant had been issued, (3) that the accused actually harbored or concealed the fugitive, and (4) that the accused intended to prevent the fugitive' s discovery or arrest.
​

In other words -

Obstructing the law enforcement officials from doing their job.

 

[yougottabekidding]

Shouldn't our Legislators promote the rule of law?

After all, they are ones who made the very laws they are telling criminals to avoid.

 

[Speedwell]

And if you prevent them from executing the warrant you can be held for...….

harboring a fugitive

Which by definitions is:

Harboring a fugitive refers to the crime of knowingly hiding a wanted criminal from the authorities. Federal and state laws, which vary by state, govern the crime of harboring a fugitive. Although supplying funds may make one an accessory after the fact, supplying financial assistance to a fugitive does not rise to the level of harboring or concealing. The federal statute, 18 U.S.C. § 1071, requires proof of four elements: (1) proof that a federal warrant had been issued for the fugitive' s arrest, (2) that the accused had knowledge that a warrant had been issued, (3) that the accused actually harbored or concealed the fugitive, and (4) that the accused intended to prevent the fugitive' s discovery or arrest.
​

In other words -

Obstructing the law enforcement officials from doing their job.

So advising a person that it is his constitutional right to refuse entry to a law enforcement official who does not possess a judicial warrant is neither obstruction nor harboring.

 

[Arcangl86]

And if you prevent them from executing the warrant you can be held for...….

harboring a fugitive

Which by definitions is:

Harboring a fugitive refers to the crime of knowingly hiding a wanted criminal from the authorities. Federal and state laws, which vary by state, govern the crime of harboring a fugitive. Although supplying funds may make one an accessory after the fact, supplying financial assistance to a fugitive does not rise to the level of harboring or concealing. The federal statute, 18 U.S.C. § 1071, requires proof of four elements: (1) proof that a federal warrant had been issued for the fugitive' s arrest, (2) that the accused had knowledge that a warrant had been issued, (3) that the accused actually harbored or concealed the fugitive, and (4) that the accused intended to prevent the fugitive' s discovery or arrest.
​

In other words -

Obstructing the law enforcement officials from doing their job.

Administrative warrants do not empower ICE Agents to enter private property. They also are not "federal warrants" in the sense of 18 USC 1071 because they are not issues by a judge.

 

[yougottabekidding]

So advising a person that it is his constitutional right to refuse entry to a law enforcement official who does not possess a judicial warrant is neither obstruction nor harboring.

To take the side of the criminal over the ones who are executing the laws you put on the books makes no sense

 

[Speedwell]

Shouldn't our Legislators promote the rule of law?

After all, they are ones who made the very laws they are telling criminals to avoid.

Don't blame the Legislators, blame the Constitution which explicitly spells out the right to refuse entry to a law enforcement official who does not possess a judicial warrant.

 

[yougottabekidding]

Don't blame the Legislators, blame the Constitution which explicitly spells out the right to refuse entry to a law enforcement official who does not possess a judicial warrant.

I can affix blame to the people who make the laws, then encourage criminal to avoid the consequences of breaking the laws they made.

 

[Arcangl86]

If they are criminals, ICE simply needs to get a judicial warrant to enter private property to arrest them then.

 

[TLK Valentine]

And if you prevent them from executing the warrant you can be held for...….

harboring a fugitive

Neither ICE nor any other government agency has the authority to enter your house without a warrant signed by a judge.

If you want to give the police more power over you, be my guest... but the law says what it says, and its meaning and application have been agreed upon by people far more knowledgeable about it than you or I.

 

[TLK Valentine]

If they are criminals, ICE simply needs to get a judicial warrant to enter private property to arrest them then.

But...but... but... illegals!