Isn't heaven a paradox?

[Curious Atheist]

1. We do not have to have bad around us all the time to know what good is. That is part of the reason we do spend time on Earth, to know we do not want to sin again.

So inevitably the only reason we have a life on Earth is to sin and know how it feels like to be without God? So why does God then ask for us to not sin, giving commandments to ensure we know what sin is? Why do we try and avoid pain and suffering and prevent the suffering of others if that really is the only purpose of a mortal life?

2. First off the Bible does not teach sinners have an eternal life anywhere. Hell will destroy over time everything. What you have to realize is: “the people that do not want Godly type Love (unselfish type Love) but want only carnal type love, would not be happy in heaven, because it is one huge Love Feast.” Earth will not last forever, so there is no other place for them to go, leaving only annihilation.

According to many Christians like drich, we are all sinners. I thought Jesus was supposed to have died for our sins, so I don’t understand this. Anyway, you interpret heaven as the end of your soul, but you get tortured a bit first? This doesn’t really make much difference really, the end would be a relief after hell.

3. All mature adult humans that have accepted Godly type Love in the form of accepting God’s forgiveness will Love much since “…he that is forgiven much loves much…” so we all have some Godly type love.

Sin on earth is not the problem and helps the non believer be burden to the point of seeking a benevolent Creator’s help (Charity) in the form of forgiveness.

If sin on Earth is not a problem and actually has benefits, shouldn’t sin be encouraged? I feel like the anti-christ is just doing God’s will, he created Satan for good reason if this is the case and we should be thankful to Lucifer more than God as he would be doing more to get you in to heaven in the end.

 

[Catherineanne]

I can't understand the concept of heaven without it contradicting itself.

1. How can you have only happiness? There is no such thing as good if there is no evil, so you would spend eternity in one state with nothing to compare it to, or even a memory of pain or sadness as this wouldn't be perfection.

2. How can you be perfectly content if your loved ones burn in hell? How can you rest easily for eternity knowing countless billions are being tortured, effectively by your parent? I wouldn't stand having Hitler as a Dad, even if he was only loving towards me.

3. How can you be with relatives in heaven? Surely their idea of heaven would be different to yours, so you cannot share a common ground without it being less than perfect. One mans heaven could be anothers hell.

I will leave it there for now. If the reply is that you will outgrow the needs you have on Earth, like friends and family then what was the purpose of a human life? What is the need for sin on Earth if there is no sin where you will spend eternity? What is the point in spending a drop in the ocean in one state, which is insignicant to the other?

None of it makes any sense to me at all, no wonder it was never described in the Bible because I can't see how it doesn't contradict. As I expect everyones view of heaven is different, which raises point 3.

Thanks

I agree, but my conclusion is different from yours. Imo Paradox is a sure sign of God's presence.

 

[Curious Atheist]

[FONT=&quot]You Misunderstand. I am only pointing out your misuse of the word "Happiness" to describe the eternal Joy that being with God will bring.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ok then, but can you please provide the reason you said this:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“ [/FONT]The bible does not say Heaven is only happiness.”
As how can being with God be anything but complete happiness, if he is only good and being with him is perfection?[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Either God isn’t 100% good or heaven is not 100% with God, it has to be one or the other as they contradict.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The only "contradiction" that can be pointed out is that "happiness" is insufficient term to describe the Joy we have been promised.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You are avoiding answering my question. I don’t think I do understand the significance of the difference between joy and happiness. It seems a bit pedantic to me as they synonyms. So can you answer my question directly, how can God be 100% good yet heaven not be 100% joy/happiness?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Well if he is infinitely good, more good than can be imagined doesn’t that just make the chances of any sadness when you are with him even less, backing up my point? What deeper meaning to you read in to the description of God that allows for sadness?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Again I have only ever pointed out you misusage of the Term you used to describe the Joy we have been promised.
That is why it seems that I have backed your point to a certain extent.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And yet again to avoid answering. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I do not know of only sin and evil.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So you are saying you can live a life completely without sin or Evil?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That is a slippery slope argument, not what I said at all. You said I would know ONLY. You seem to forget I don’t believe in your God, I do not think I am a sinner for not having irrational faith. In your eyes I am a sinner, but if I truly believed if I sinned I would burn forever then I would live in a monastery and spend my days thinking about God as to not have the slightest risk of sin. I wouldn’t live my life like most so-called Christians who have a very convenient way of interpreting the Bible so they can live a normal selfish life yet still think God loves them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]What I was saying is that there is no concept of light without the dark, no good without evil and no happiness without sadness.
No joy without pain, no love without hate etc etc. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]..That you can comprehend[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So your argument that defends the logical fallacies and contradictions I am trying to explain is that the answers are beyond our comprehension? That seems a feeble way of trying to avoid answering. No-one can comprehend light without dark, as darkness is only the absence of light. If it were only light then dark wouldn’t exist and we wouldn’t appreciate the light. If we only knew happiness/joy then that would be the neutral, default position that would lose any special meaning. Saying the joy would be beyond this just defies what it is to a be a free-thinking human and as God created us in his image then surely he did that for a reason, why take it away as a reward?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Things lose their meaning without having a comparison.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That is why Happiness is not a sufficient description of the Joy we will have in Heaven. Again, Happiness is dependent on circumstance to maintain the emotion. Joy is a gift given by God and sustained by Him. (This is why I gave you a link to a keyword search and asked you to look up those two words. Which apparently you did not do..) You argument completely depends on your understanding of Happiness, but does not take into account of the meaning of God's gift of Joy.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]They are synonyms, I searched from that link and was presented with many quotes, no definitions. You can make someone feel Joy by giving them drugs (releasing serotonin), which gives you the sense of happiness/joy. Your description of heaven makes me think it is a similar experience, overwhelming joy but with no causation, so it seems like a forced joy. Perhaps I am misunderstanding and just being with God is the causation of joy, but surely Christians already claim they have a relationship with God on Earth and that God is everywhere so at no point are we not with him. So the only difference I can see with your description of heaven is this forced joy.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Love is not an emotion. Love is a choice with an emotional element. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You cannot simply choose who to love, I completely disagree. Try and force yourself to love a man who had killed your children, I would find it impossible.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Element in of itself is not love, it is only apart of the greater whole. When you have a child addicted to drugs the emotions you have, do not reflect the "love" one has to have to endure what is to come, to see your loved one through that kind of ordeal. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Do you feel this love for every random stranger addicted to drugs on the streets? Perhaps someone who had mugged your mother for drug money?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The emotions of love is just a shadow of what Love truly is. If you only know of the emotions of love, you will never understand the Love God has already shown you. Ask God to help you develop and understand what Love is. This gift will change your life forever. (literally)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ok I will ask…oh he didn’t answer what a surprise. God hasn’t had any role in my life, he has shown me no signs and if he was responsible for everything I would have more reason to think he hates me, as he is only pushing me further away. Not only does he give me more reason to think he isn’t there, but more reason to resent him if he is. That is not how I describe love.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So I can only sin unless I go to heaven? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yes. Read Mathew 5. Christ elevates the definition of sin to include thought. Now no one can live a sin free life. This means that righteousness must be obtained outside trying to adhere to the Law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I thought Christ was supposed to have died for our sins, not make it even easier to sin by accident. What are your thoughts on what I said before, the only reason we live on Earth is to sin so it seems illogical to try and prevent sin in God’s eyes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There are none Good no not one. Only God is Good. That means it is not possible to simply "exist as a good person." All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Well he would be silly to create humans knowing they aren’t as good as him and then expect them to be as good as he. It seems even sillier and evil to then threaten hell and place unachievable targets.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Well heaven wasn’t good enough for Angels, I doubt a mere mortal would be any different.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Are you being facetious or foolish? As i pointed out 2/3 of the angels found Heaven to indeed Be Heaven. At the same time you are right Not everyone wants to be with God. You apparently wish to be known as one who will not find contentment with Him. Just know this wish will ring in your ears as you pass From the presents of God. Whether you revel in your words or curse them you will know in your heart these words are indeed your own, and your fate is of your own choosing. God is only holding to your hearts most sincere desire.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No, I just think 1/3 of all angels not liking heaven is a very large percentage. If angels are immortal and created to be higher beings than humans, it seems we have less chance of being better than an angel. We would find it even more difficult to not sin in heaven, more likely to be thrown out. I do not choose to be known to not want to be with God, I do not believe God exists nor heaven nor hell. When I die I will go back to the state of nothingness that I was in before I was born, but I don’t really know as no-one does anyone who claims they do is a liar.[/FONT]

 

[Jonathan95]

I'm sure you wouldn't care about your loved ones if you come to heaven and get to be with Jesus.

 

[Curious Atheist]

I'm sure you wouldn't care about your loved ones if you come to heaven and get to be with Jesus.

I hope not, then it wouldn't be heaven. Why make humans if you are expected to be in-human in the afterlife?
But keep telling yourself what you want to believe, just realise it does not make it true and those who disagree with you are not sinners and subhuman.

 

[Jonathan95]

I hope not, then it wouldn't be heaven. Why make humans if you are expected to be in-human in the afterlife?
But keep telling yourself what you want to believe, just realise it does not make it true and those who disagree with you are not sinners and subhuman.

Because you probably can't worry about it heaven, or even be sad about it.

 

[Curious Atheist]

Because you probably can't worry about it heaven, or even be sad about it.

That doesn't explain why.

 

[GrayAngel]

Why is it people always respond to the replies they find most objectionable, going after the "weakest link," so to speak? You'd think if people were arguing for the sake of arguing, or something.

Like here. You want to believe that Christians lack morality, so you're going to reply to the ones that seem to support your bias.

 

[bling]

So inevitably the only reason we have a life on Earth is to sin and know how it feels like to be without God? So why does God then ask for us to not sin, giving commandments to ensure we know what sin is? Why do we try and avoid pain and suffering and prevent the suffering of others if that really is the only purpose of a mortal life?

Come now, I specifically said “part of the reason” which is not “the only reason”. Sin has purpose for the non-believer on earth to help him to turn and accept God’s help in the charitable form of forgiveness. When you learn to ride a bike the objective is not to fall, but you will fall. It is not the parents fault for removing the training wheels.
Man’s purpose is to obtain Godly type Love and thus be like God Himself. The only way to do that is to sin, feel the burden of that sin, seek help, humbly accept God’s help in the form of God’s forgiveness and you will automatically Love much. Jesus teaches us (and we know from experience) “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”

According to many Christians like drich, we are all sinners. I thought Jesus was supposed to have died for our sins, so I don’t understand this. Anyway, you interpret heaven as the end of your soul, but you get tortured a bit first? This doesn’t really make much difference really, the end would be a relief after hell.

Yes, all mature adults’ sin. Yes, Jesus died so God could forgive everyone’s sins, but this is a free undeserving and unconditional gift that will not be forced on you, it is yours to accept or reject. Humbly accepting this Charity results in Godly type Love.

If sin on Earth is not a problem and actually has benefits, shouldn’t sin be encouraged? I feel like the anti-christ is just doing God’s will, he created Satan for good reason if this is the case and we should be thankful to Lucifer more than God as he would be doing more to get you in to heaven in the end.

Remember the “benefit” of sin is for the nonbeliever. You do not have to do any “encouraging” to get the nonbeliever to sin, satan is around for that reason. All these tragedies (satan, natural tragedies, hell, sin, evil and Christ going to the cross) are painfully allowed by God to help willing individuals to humbly trust and accept His help (Charity).

Satan helps increase the need and burden of sin, but God provides the solution. After we accept God’s Love we have the privilege and honor of allowing God’s Spirit to work through us providing that solution to others.

 

[Curious Atheist]

[FONT=&quot]I tried to pick out the answers that were different, so I didn’t cover the same ground. Also, there are many replies I can’t answer them all! But message received, I have replied to your comments below:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
1. How can you have only happiness? There is no such thing as good if there is no evil, so you would spend eternity in one state with nothing to compare it to, or even a memory of pain or sadness as this wouldn't be perfection.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Not true. Good can exist without evil. God has always existed, but Satan did not. Besides, Hell exists.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But how do you define what ‘good’ is without having a comparable? If there is only one possible state, then that would be the neutral default position. For example if there was only one type of food, it would not matter how it tasted it could not be described as tasting good or bad. It would just be food and nothing more. If you have food you like and dislike then you start to appreciate the nice tasting foods. Even if the default food was the nicest tasting food possible, it would still just be neutral and the possibility of something better and new would be tempting if you could imagine the concept.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You assume things about Hell that we do not know[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Well of course I don’t know! No-one does, that is why I don’t believe in heaven or hell at all as you can’t possibly make such assumptions. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I don't believe that the literal picture of Hell in the Bible is meant to be taken 100% literally[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Why not? Do you believe heaven is not meant to be literal either? So by ‘with God’ it doesn’t mean anything different to how you are with God now, a new body could be reincarnation. So if you wanted to you could interpret the Bible to mean you come back as a caterpillar. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot].. Also, Hell is not the same for everyone. Hitler would have a very harsh afterlife, but ordinary people would not be given the same treatment.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You assume things about Hell that we do not know[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. How can you be with relatives in heaven? Surely their idea of heaven would be different to yours, so you cannot share a common ground without it being less than perfect. One mans heaven could be anothers hell.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Again, we don't know what the afterlife is like. But I don't believe that Heaven is different for everyone. Happiness is the same for everyone. Everyone loves to be loved, and there is love everywhere in Heaven. We will all enjoy Heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That is not possible. We are all different with our own ideas of what makes us happy and love alone is not fulfilling for eternity. So no, happiness is not in any way the same for everyone I think that is quite a self-centred view of the world.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I don't see any contradictions yet, just your own objections to the idea.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You need to make many assumptions to try and make it fit, such as hell isn’t as described (eternity of suffering for all sinners/non-believers), heaven is not perfect as described (it cannot be ‘perfect’ unless it is a tailored utopia), we will not mind our free will being taken away (the freedom to sin or leave heaven), everyone can enjoy nothing but pure God-induced joy for all eternity and never want to change etc (joy with no cause is meaningless by definition, like a drug-induced stupor it has no real merit to true happiness). It just doesn’t make any sense, perhaps it is my own objection but I think it is more than that judging by the variety of different interpretations in the replies in this thread.

To an extent, I would agree that our earthly desires are replaced by new ones. On earth, our desires are centered on survival. Whether trying to live to be old, eating to provide nourishment, trying to have children (survival of genes), or trying to find salvation for our immortal souls, everything is about survival here.

In Heaven, our need to survive is gone because we have already survived. As for friends and family, our church is our family. Whether we feel sorry for the lost, or if we forget they existed, or if there is some other reality, no one can say for certain.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But if you say that heaven is a utopia for all, that everyone will be happy there then does that not make it necessary for you to not be able to be burdened with the thoughts of your loved ones in hell? I can’t see how knowing your children are being tortured wouldn’t hinder your joy somehow, if it did not then you are a monster who doesn’t deserve heaven by the Bibles definition. So everything you say is based on the Bible, then re-interpreted to try and make sense of it to you, personally. Take away your assumptions and guesses and what is left is rather less than paradise and raises all the contradictions I am pointing out.[/FONT]

 

[drich0150]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Ok then, but can you please provide the reason you said this:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“ [/FONT]The bible does not say Heaven is only happiness.”
As how can being with God be anything but complete happiness, if he is only good and being with him is perfection?
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]You Misunderstand. I am only pointing out your misuse of the word "Happiness" to describe the eternal Joy that being with God will bring.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]You are avoiding answering my question. [/FONT]

No, I am Not.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]I don’t think I do understand the significance of the difference between joy and happiness. It seems a bit pedantic to me as they synonyms.[/FONT]

"Happiness" is a conditional from of elation. It is fleeting, meaning it will not last. The terms of Happiness are ever changing. That is Why I asked you to look up how That word is used in the bible. You seem to only understand Happiness.[/FONT]

Joy is a sense of elation sustained by God. That being the case "Joy" has nothing to do with circumstance.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]So can you answer my question directly, how can God be 100% good yet heaven not be 100% joy/happiness?[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Your question originally only asked of eternal Happiness. As I have said 5 times now. Happiness Has no place in Heaven.. (Which would only Leave Eternal Joy)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]And yet again to avoid answering. [/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I can not give you the answer you are looking for because simply put, you do not know enough about the terms you are using to recognize the answer given.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]That is a slippery slope argument, not what I said at all. You said I would know ONLY. You seem to forget I don’t believe in your God, I do not think I am a sinner for not having irrational faith.[/FONT]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you are using the term "sinner" you are describing one who is outside the expressed will of God. So whether you believe in God or not if you are using an established standard to measure yourself against, then it is to those parameters in which you will be judged. Belief in God has nothing to do with an honest assessment of your actions. You drew the first comparison between your deeds and sin/evil to try and establish all of the "good" you think you have done without God. [/FONT]

I am saying if you are going to use these terms you need to understand, and be held to their meanings.

[FONT=&quot]

In your eyes I am a sinner,

I am not qualified to judge your sin. I have only pointed out the sin that God says is in all of us.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]then I would live in a monastery and spend my days thinking about God as to not have the slightest risk of sin.[/FONT]

It's already too late for you have already sinned. One sin just one is enough to be condemned to Hell. So that means being sinless is not an option. We must seek out another way to find the righteousness we need to be with God. Thankfully God offerers redemption for sin. Meaning we do not have to be sinless in order to Find God.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]I wouldn’t live my life like most so-called Christians who have a very convenient way of interpreting the Bible so they can live a normal selfish life yet still think God loves them.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]That is the most wonderful thing about the Freedom Christ offers. "What ever you bind on Earth will also be bound in Heaven and what ever you loose on Earth will be Loosed in Heaven." Meaning if you think it is a sin here on earth, then for you, it is. In the end You will be judged Against your own understanding of Sin. So even if something is not technically a sin, but you believe it to be, then your life will be judged according to how you perceived this "sinful" act. That Means if for you being a Christian is living like a monk, and spending your days only thinking about God is the Only way, then for you it will be. You can be as selfish as you like, and your eternity will reflect your decisions.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]On the other hand if you learn to forgive and let live, then your sins will in turn be forgiven, and you will know freedom from the Law as the way to obtain righteousness.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]So your argument that defends the logical fallacies and contradictions I am trying to explain is that the answers are beyond our comprehension? [/FONT]

Not ours collectively. YOURS. Or rather the level you currently have, and refuse to examine.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]That seems a feeble way of trying to avoid answering. No-one can comprehend light without dark, as darkness is only the absence of light. If it were only light then dark wouldn’t exist and we wouldn’t appreciate the light.[/FONT]

Do you know "we" can only see three forms or wave length of the spectrum? It is from these three that we define all things we can see. My questions would have you think of the other things that the electromagnetic spectrum can bring. But because you seem to be locked into only that which you can see you want to ignore everything else.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot] If we only knew happiness/joy then that would be the neutral, default position that would lose any special meaning. [/FONT]

As you only seem to know the elation that comes with Happiness, then I can only agree with this limited understanding of what you are trying to describe. Just know there is a sense of elation out there not contingent on circumstance.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Saying the joy would be beyond this just defies what it is to a be a free-thinking human and as God created us in his image then surely he did that for a reason, why take it away as a reward?[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Just because you do not experience Joy, are you suggesting that no one has or can? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For that matter know, I have experienced Joy everyday of my life since I truly accepted God. In the good times and Bad God has given me a measure of Joy, one that I am faithful to most of the time, but even if I am not, I still know it is there.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]They are synonyms, I searched from that link and was presented with many quotes, no definitions. [/FONT]

No but there were many many examples of God giving Joy. And happiness was only ever used to describe a momentary sense of elation.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]You can make someone feel Joy by giving them drugs (releasing serotonin), which gives you the sense of happiness/joy.[/FONT]

As this sensation if fleeting then Happiness is the word used to describe this experience.Not Joy.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

Your description of heaven makes me think it is a similar experience, overwhelming joy but with no causation, so it seems like a forced joy.

So because you do not understand the cause, does it mean one does not exist? Or do you actually based this conclusion on something like scripture?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]Perhaps I am misunderstanding and just being with God is the causation of joy, but surely Christians already claim they have a relationship with God on Earth and that God is everywhere so at no point are we not with him. [/FONT]

Do you know the difference between being in the presents of God and Being in the presents of His Glory? [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]So the only difference I can see with your description of heaven is this forced joy.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Joy is a gift reserved for only those who choose to accept it. God understands not everyone wants this gift. That is why you have been given another option. If it were "forced Joy" then everyone would goto Heaven like how you want.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]You cannot simply choose who to love, I completely disagree.[/FONT]

Because you do not understand the complexities of Love. You only seem to know of the Eros form of it.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Try and force yourself to love a man who had killed your children, I would find it impossible.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I said love is a choice, not an involuntary act. Even if you can not find love for someone like this, you can find forgiveness for them in your heart, if you choose to Love God.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]Do you feel this love for every random stranger addicted to drugs on the streets? [/FONT]

What about Love being a Choice that you do not seem to understand?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Perhaps someone who had mugged your mother for drug money?[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]No, but again I can find forgiveness for them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]Ok I will ask…oh he didn’t answer what a surprise. [/FONT]

[/FONT]
Read Luke 11:5
[FONT=&quot]The Key here is to Ask, Seek and Knock. We ask in prayer, we seek in our bibles, Church and places like this, we knock by repeating this process till we get what we Want.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]God hasn’t had any role in my life, he has shown me no signs and if he was responsible for everything I would have more reason to think he hates me, as he is only pushing me further away.[/FONT]

If He were to speak to you would you even recognize His voice? What would you look for? What Hollywood mandates? Do you know the primary reason the Jews do not believe in Christ? Because Christ did not come to them as they expected the Son of God to Come.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]How are you any different here? You are wanting a burning bush or a pillar of speaking fire, but what if God decides to simply answer your "questions" directly in a post here? Would you recognise His words? Now you got to ask If God were to do/has done this how did you respond?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]Not only does he give me more reason to think he isn’t there, but more reason to resent him if he is. [/FONT]

Which is apart of the gift of this life. You are free to do this.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]That is not how I describe love.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Do you really think your experiences so far in this life is indeed the bench mark for Love? One that you can judge God by? Good luck with that one.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]I thought Christ was supposed to have died for our sins, not make it even easier to sin by accident.[/FONT]

Christ Job here was to Complete the Law. Or Rather He was sent to take away the need to try and obtain Righteousness (The rightness or privilege to be with God) through complete adherence to the Law. In order to do this we must have a complete understanding of the Law, or the Expressed Will of God.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot] What are your thoughts on what I said before, the only reason we live on Earth is to sin [/FONT]

Put away your medieval Sunday school understanding of Sin and Evil. Sin is not the opposite of goodness. [/FONT]

Sin, is anything not in the expressed Will of God.

Evil is a malicious intent to commit sin.

Freewill is the ability to be outside of God's expressed Will. In other words it is the ability to sin. That makes Evil the proof of Free Will. Because that malicious intention to be outside of His expressed Will is not of God.

Without Sin and Evil we do not have the right or ability to be outside the expressed will of God. In other words we would not have Free Will.

So how can God allow for "Freewill/Choice" and eliminate the consequences of Sin? Through Atonement. What is Atonement? It is the Blood sacrifice of Christ. Now we have a Choice as to where we wish to spend eternity and the Righteousness through the atonement that Christ offerers so our decision to be with God counts. (Without the atoning sacrifice our "choice" would count for nothing because of our sin.)

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]so it seems illogical to try and prevent sin in God’s eyes.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And you know what God sees?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]Well he would be silly to create humans knowing they aren’t as good as him and then expect them to be as good as he. [/FONT]

"Being good" as a way to earn heaven is a medieval concept, that still carries weight in the circles who lean toward spiritual dependence of it congregations. This is not a biblical precept.. We have freedom in Christ. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]It seems even sillier and evil to then threaten hell and place unachievable targets.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Again "good" is not a target. That what that verse means."We all have fallen short of the Glory of God." Since none are Good then Heaven is not a reward for the deserving. Because none are deserving. Heaven is a gift.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]No, I just think 1/3 of all angels not liking heaven is a very large percentage. If angels are immortal and created to be higher beings than humans, it seems we have less chance of being better than an angel.[/FONT]

Again Heaven is not a reward for the Just. It is the place where those who wish to be with God are allowed to do so.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

We would find it even more difficult to not sin in heaven, more likely to be thrown out.

Not if sin were no longer an option.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

I do not choose to be known to not want to be with God, I do not believe God exists nor heaven nor hell.

If I don't believe in real life smurfs, why would I feel the need to defend my beliefs against those who do?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

[FONT=&quot]When I die I will go back to the state of nothingness that I was in before I was born,[/FONT]

So sure are you. Just because you can not remember what state you were in before you were born, does it mean one did not exist? If our memories are completely tied to the electrochemical reactions in our brains then how can memory (as we now know it) exist before these processes had an opportunity to record them?[/FONT]

Can you remember the womb? your Birth? Does it mean these things did not happen?

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]but I don’t really know as no-one does anyone who claims they do is a liar.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So you believe yourself to be the bench mark of the known universe? That if something exists God ran it by you first? Or can you accept that there are thing beyond your comprehension? If so why can't this be one of those things?[/FONT]

 

[pinkputter]

Why is it people always respond to the replies they find most objectionable, going after the "weakest link," so to speak? You'd think if people were arguing for the sake of arguing, or something.

Like here. You want to believe that Christians lack morality, so you're going to reply to the ones that seem to support your bias.

Yepp. CuriousAtheist,

I have already answered questions you are still currently asking. Makes me wonder since you don't acknowledge these answers, if you have given the topic any more thought. Non believers ride Christians about "cherry picking" the bible, but it seems you are doing so in this case.

 

[pinkputter]

Here's a featured audio I found that I thought could be of interest.

DRich brought up the idea of happiness being fleeting. There is some truth to that, however, is it possible that it's only bec we are in this world that it is fleeting, and that in Heaven it will be permanent?

Here is a great lecture by Peter Kreeft on Jesus and HIS concept of happiness.
See what you think...

Peter Kreeft - Christ's Concept of Happiness