• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!

Islamphobia

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

All4HISglory

Guest
Happy New Year to each of you.

I just watched this show called Vanguard: Islamphobia and it was about a movement in the western countries, to include the USA, of groups that are against the teachings of Islam. There was a group called EDL, English Defense League, who almost reminded me of the American skinheads, at least from the footage that the show provided of them.

My question is, at what point (other than violence) do you think that people can take their beliefs too far?

Reason I'm asking is due the footage I saw. One of the main leaders of the EDL shot footage of what it was like for him to drive through a Muslim community. He was slapped by a Muslim man while exchanging harsh words in a conversation. My point is why even go to a community with the intent to express your unbelief and disgust for what that community believes in? What happened to coexisting together in spite of our differences?

Granted I know there has been a long history throughout the world of hate crimes from both Muslims and non Muslims but why provoke it or fuel it?

Mrs. Richard posting on my iPad using CF
 

awitch

Retired from Christian Forums
Mar 31, 2008
8,508
3,134
New Jersey, USA
✟26,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
My question is, at what point (other than violence) do you think that people can take their beliefs too far?

The spread of propaganda targeted towards groups based on immutable characteristics counts, IMO. We see SPLC-labeled hate groups purposely lie and demonize Muslims and homosexuals every day.

Granted I know there has been a long history throughout the world of hate crimes from both Muslims and non Muslims but why provoke it or fuel it?

Exploiting fear and provoking a perceived enemy is a great way to win money and power, which in turn is used to advance an agenda.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

TG123

Regular Member
Jul 1, 2006
4,965
203
somewhere
✟21,969.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Happy New Year to each of you.

I just watched this show called Vanguard: Islamphobia and it was about a movement in the western countries, to include the USA, of groups that are against the teachings of Islam. There was a group called EDL, English Defense League, who almost reminded me of the American skinheads, at least from the footage that the show provided of them.

My question is, at what point (other than violence) do you think that people can take their beliefs too far?

Reason I'm asking is due the footage I saw. One of the main leaders of the EDL shot footage of what it was like for him to drive through a Muslim community. He was slapped by a Muslim man while exchanging harsh words in a conversation. My point is why even go to a community with the intent to express your unbelief and disgust for what that community believes in? What happened to coexisting together in spite of our differences?

Granted I know there has been a long history throughout the world of hate crimes from both Muslims and non Muslims but why provoke it or fuel it?

Mrs. Richard posting on my iPad using CF
I think that the EDL are a bunch of hatefilled skinhead wannabes, and the same for violent extremists from the Muslim community. EDL hate speech and assaults on Muslims are unjustified and wrong, so is a Muslim who slaps someone in the face or an imam calls for believers of another religion to be killed.

I believe Islam is mistaken in many ways, but I love Muslims. Love does not mean keeping one's religious views to yourself but it does mean sharing the Gospel and living it out... and that means loving them and getting to know them and and standing up for them when they are victims of slander and injustice and seeing them how God sees them... precious people worth dying for.

If there are Christians in EDL they should repent and leave. They insult the Gospel and tarnish it if they claim they are Christians acting out the faith.
 
Upvote 0

SanFrank

Islam Lies to Muslims - Facebook
Mar 11, 2009
2,329
62
United States
✟25,484.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Happy New Year to each of you.

I just watched this show called Vanguard: Islamphobia and it was about a movement in the western countries, to include the USA, of groups that are against the teachings of Islam. There was a group called EDL, English Defense League, who almost reminded me of the American skinheads, at least from the footage that the show provided of them.
Your comparison of the EDL with skinheads means you sympathize with muslims and islam?
My question is, at what point (other than violence) do you think that people can take their beliefs too far?
As for islam taking thier beliefs to an extreme, the EDL pales in comparison. Islam's exploits in pushing their beliefs includes beheading muslims that become christians, a special tax on christians (if any exist in their countries), rape of christian women, forced marriage of raped victims, etc, etc, etc.

By comparision, EDL has been expressing concern and gaining a fan base.
Reason I'm asking is due the footage I saw. One of the main leaders of the EDL shot footage of what it was like for him to drive through a Muslim community. He was slapped by a Muslim man while exchanging harsh words in a conversation. My point is why even go to a community with the intent to express your unbelief and disgust for what that community believes in? What happened to coexisting together in spite of our differences?
I think you should personally visit a mosque and ask anyone there that question.

Short-sightedness is not an excuse.
 
Upvote 0

mathetes123

Newbie
Dec 26, 2011
2,469
54
✟18,144.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Happy New Year to each of you.

I just watched this show called Vanguard: Islamphobia and it was about a movement in the western countries, to include the USA, of groups that are against the teachings of Islam. There was a group called EDL, English Defense League, who almost reminded me of the American skinheads, at least from the footage that the show provided of them.

My question is, at what point (other than violence) do you think that people can take their beliefs too far?

Reason I'm asking is due the footage I saw. One of the main leaders of the EDL shot footage of what it was like for him to drive through a Muslim community. He was slapped by a Muslim man while exchanging harsh words in a conversation. My point is why even go to a community with the intent to express your unbelief and disgust for what that community believes in? What happened to coexisting together in spite of our differences?

Granted I know there has been a long history throughout the world of hate crimes from both Muslims and non Muslims but why provoke it or fuel it?

Mrs. Richard posting on my iPad using CF

Not defending any of these hate groups, from either side of the issue, but have you looked at the example of Muslim countries throughout the world? Do they provide an example of religious toerance and peaceful coexistence?
 
Upvote 0

SanFrank

Islam Lies to Muslims - Facebook
Mar 11, 2009
2,329
62
United States
✟25,484.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I think that the EDL are a bunch of hatefilled skinhead wannabes, and the same for violent extremists from the Muslim community. EDL hate speech and assaults on Muslims are unjustified and wrong, so is a Muslim who slaps someone in the face or an imam calls for believers of another religion to be killed.

I believe Islam is mistaken in many ways, but I love Muslims. Love does not mean keeping one's religious views to yourself but it does mean sharing the Gospel and living it out... and that means loving them and getting to know them and and standing up for them when they are victims of slander and injustice and seeing them how God sees them... precious people worth dying for.

If there are Christians in EDL they should repent and leave. They insult the Gospel and tarnish it if they claim they are Christians acting out the faith.
Not speaking from a christian perspective, any group (like EDL) that educates peoples as to the dangers and truths of islam, is doing the public a service. If they get to them before muslims do, that's a good thing.
 
Upvote 0
B

Borromeo

Guest
And this is the reason for EDL.

UK Muslim Colonies Demand Sharia Law - Tolerance Against Intolerance, Either Cowardice Or Suicidal - YouTube

Anyone that doesn't see a problem with this is insane, though I'm sure most westerners now don't see a problem with it. If it were westerners in any other place in the world saying they want to violently take over and implement Christianity - or anything else - the natives would have expelled them if they were being nice. The fact is no society is obligated to tolerate those who want to destroy it, and the only people confused about the matter are westerners.
 
Upvote 0

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2004
8,430
426
Atlanta, GA.
✟12,748.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Not defending any of these hate groups, from either side of the issue, but have you looked at the example of Muslim countries throughout the world? Do they provide an example of religious toerance and peaceful coexistence?

I agree. Anyone who thinks that Muslims are trying to peacefully coexist with non-Muslims might be just a little naive.

TRUE PRACTICING Muslims aren't trying to peacefully coexist with anyone but other Muslims.
 
Upvote 0

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2004
8,430
426
Atlanta, GA.
✟12,748.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
And this is the reason for EDL.

UK Muslim Colonies Demand Sharia Law - Tolerance Against Intolerance, Either Cowardice Or Suicidal - YouTube

Anyone that doesn't see a problem with this is insane, though I'm sure most westerners now don't see a problem with it. If it were westerners in any other place in the world saying they want to violently take over and implement Christianity - or anything else - the natives would have expelled them if they were being nice. The fact is no society is obligated to tolerate those who want to destroy it, and the only people confused about the matter are westerners.

And this is why I've said for years that people are blinded by what a lot of Muslims are selling as the "new,more peaceful Islam". It is nothing more than a way to get the numbers up, become a large enough voting bloc, and start making demands for Sharia.
 
Upvote 0

awitch

Retired from Christian Forums
Mar 31, 2008
8,508
3,134
New Jersey, USA
✟26,740.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
And this is why I've said for years that people are blinded by what a lot of Muslims are selling as the "new,more peaceful Islam". It is nothing more than a way to get the numbers up, become a large enough voting bloc, and start making demands for Sharia.

Your proposed solution?
 
Upvote 0

TG123

Regular Member
Jul 1, 2006
4,965
203
somewhere
✟21,969.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
EDL is a protest group and has never done any violence... the people who are calling them a 'hate group' and acting as if they are nazis here are speaking from the popular ignorance that believe Islam is wrong/dangerous means you are violent.
The EDL has never done any violence, eh?....

Association with violence and anti-social behaviour




Video of damage being caused to a restaurant in Leicester. A supporter of the English Defence League was later convicted for his involvement in the attack, and admitted causing criminal damage worth £1500.[39]


The group states that its aim is to demonstrate peacefully in English towns and cities,[32] but conflicts with Unite Against Fascism (UAF), local opposition and other opponents have led to street violence, anti-social behaviour and arrests. A proposed march in Luton in September 2009 was banned by the police, citing a threat to public safety.[40] There is normally heavy policing of these demonstrations, due to the likelihood of violence. The cost of policing these demonstrations has ranged from £300,000[41] to £1 million.[42] Journalists that have covered EDL marches have received death threats,[43] for instance journalist Jason N. Parkinson from The Guardian wrote about receiving a death threat by email from someone he described as an EDL organiser, as well as death threats sent to Marc Vallée, a fellow journalist.[44] The National Union of Journalists also released a statement about journalists who had been intimidated after covering EDL demonstrations.[43]
Four specialist national police units involved in policing hooliganism, extreme violence, and terrorism are investigating the EDL.[25] After their second demonstration in Birmingham Assistant Chief Constable Sharon Rowe of West Midlands Police: "Really, there was no intent to protest. I think they knew that the community was very much against them coming to the city, which... potentially would generate violence".[45] Before their Manchester demonstration of October 2009, the EDL held a press conference, during which they burned a Nazi flag and asserted that "There is no militant undertone. We will peacefully protest but we will not be scared into silence".[46] During the Manchester city centre demonstration Mat Trewern, from BBC Radio Manchester reported that "At one point, earlier on, when it became extremely tense, members of the UAF tried to break the police line between the two groups”. Greater Manchester Police confirmed a man, believed to be heading to the protest, had earlier been arrested in Birmingham on suspicion of distributing racially aggravated material.[47] One week later, at a Welsh Defence League demonstration, supporters burnt an anti-Nazi flag and made Nazi salutes.[48]
In January 2010 in Stoke-on-Trent, EDL members broke through police lines; four police officers were injured and police vehicles were damaged. The BBC's Matt Cooke said there had been few problems with the Unite Against Fascism demonstration.[49]
In March 2010 in Bolton, 74 people were arrested in the demonstrations; at least 55 of the arrested were from the UAF and nine from the EDL.[50][51][52][53] Weyman Bennett, joint secretary of Unite Against Fascism was arrested and charged with conspiracy to organise violent disorder,[54] Martin Smith, of Love Music Hate Racism and Dr. Moran, joint secretary of Greater Manchester UAF were among those arrested on conspiracy charges.[55] Police said that UAF protesters were responsible for most of the trouble and that they had turned up intending to cause trouble saying "It is clear to me that a large number have attended with the sole intention of committing disorder and their actions have been wholly unacceptable."[56]
At their second Dudley protest, on 17 July 2010, there was widespread damage to local property, the local council estimated the bill to be over £500,000.[57] On 11 September 2010, police in Oldham received an advance call from the EDL. Around mid-day approximately 120 supporters had descended on the town. A separate mob of around 50 members attacked a police car with bottles. There were 8 arrests for public order offences.[58][59]
On 9 October 2010, a police officer and several civilians were injured during protests by the English Defence League and Unite Against Fascism in Leicester. A Sky News van was attacked by members of the English Defence League[60] who had earlier thrown fireworks, smokebombs and bricks at police[61] and smashed windows of the city's International Arts Centre.[62] There were also clashes between EDL supporters and local black and Asian youths as a group broke out of the EDL protest site at Humberstone Gate East and engaged with the locals. One man from Tyne and Wear was later convicted of causing criminal damage to the value of £1500 to a restaurant in this area of the city.[39] Riot police fought to maintain control over the sporadic fighting that ensued.[63] Thirteen people were arrested, one on suspicion of assaulting a police officer,[64] only one was from the city of Leicester[65] and the cost of policing the demonstration was put at £850,000.[66]
In February 2011, prior to an EDL march in Luton, national British newspapers ran headlines with expectations of violence.[67] The march, which was held on 5 February 2011, was concluded without major incident.[68]
On 10 August, during the 2011 England riots Acting Metropolitan Police Commissioner Tim Godwin expressed concern that the EDL and the BNP were seeking to exploit the situation after 90 EDL members joined vigilantes in Enfield claiming that their physical presence would discourage trouble-makers.[69][70] The EDL also gathered in Eltham for the same purpose.[71] EDL officials claimed they were safeguarding local businesses, but separate reports claimed the EDL were attacking black youths.[72]
On July 2011, the EDL visited Muslim MEP Sajjad Karim at his home with a crowd of EDL members, which Karim believed was an attempt at intimidation and threatening behavior.[73] A video was later released of the protest, in which Karim refused to accept a letter from the EDL.[74] The EDL has been accused of spray-painting and attacking mosques,[75][76] and charged with arson against mosques.[77][78] Extremist members of the EDL have been involved in physical assaults against Muslims.[79][80] EDL members have been convicted of graffitying EDL initials on mosques and Asian-run businesses.[81]
EDL members have been reported attacking an anti-fascist concert in Yorkshire.[82] EDL members have been jailed for attacking staff at office buildings which had hosted anti-EDL meetings.[83] EDL members have also attacked a bookstall in Sandwell.[84] The EDL has also been reported attacking non-white people on London Underground.[85]
Some news reports have shown pictures which are claimed to depict EDL members posing wearing paramilitary outfits, with guns and crossbows.[86][87]
On 7 December 2011, EDL activist Simon Beech was one of two men jailed for 10 years for an arson attack on a mosque. Sentencing the men, Judge Mark Eades stated: "It seems to me your purpose was not to get at extremists, but to get at Muslims in general and your purpose can only have been to destabilise community relationships." Chief Superintendent Bernie O'Reilly, who heads Stoke-on-Trent policing division, said: "This was a planned attack to try to blow a mosque up in a residential area."[88][89][90][91][92]
In the early hours of Monday 12 November 2011, two EDL activists were arrested for posting bomb threats on Facebook against Birmingham Central Mosque. They were later released on police bail, pending further enquiries by West Midlands Police.[93][94][95][96][97]
English Defence League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Destroying property... attacking homes and mosques... beating up coloured people in the Subway... attacking police and the media...making bomb threats...

...
...

... non-violence? Do some research.
 
Upvote 0

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2004
8,430
426
Atlanta, GA.
✟12,748.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Your proposed solution?

Perhaps if folks stop murdering babies in the womb their numbers wouldn't be so quickly taken over by the Muslims who generally don't practice birth control or allow for abortions.

And every state in the United States needs to pass an anti-Sharia law. The Constitution is and will remain the law of the land.
 
Upvote 0

TG123

Regular Member
Jul 1, 2006
4,965
203
somewhere
✟21,969.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And this is the reason for EDL.

UK Muslim Colonies Demand Sharia Law - Tolerance Against Intolerance, Either Cowardice Or Suicidal - YouTube

Anyone that doesn't see a problem with this is insane, though I'm sure most westerners now don't see a problem with it. If it were westerners in any other place in the world saying they want to violently take over and implement Christianity - or anything else - the natives would have expelled them if they were being nice. The fact is no society is obligated to tolerate those who want to destroy it, and the only people confused about the matter are westerners.
These guys calling for sharia law in England are sick. They also have called for violence, and engaged in violence against non-Muslims. I completely agree with you this is a problem.

This group is called Islam 4 UK, if I am not mistaken. They are extremists, but they do not represent most Muslims in England. The EDL attributes their behaviour to the behaviour of most Muslims and behaves accordingly.

I do not believe hate is an excuse for more hate.

Similarly, I could say that a video like this:
47 Miller Gang - If You Blood Throw It Up - YouTube

is the reason for Aryan Nations and other white supremacist groups in America.

We can all agree that gangs are a problem in America and this is a sad fact but most of them are non-white, in particular black or Latino. Gangs are bad, and I see no problem in denouncing them.

However, white supremacists go father than denouncing gangs. They attribute gang behaviour to most or all African and Hispanic Americans (and they attribute greed to most or all Jews, and pedophilia to all or most gay people), and target people accordingly... although I am sure that most American neo-nazis have not hurt anyone physically... they will come out to rallies and wave their Confederate and Nazi flags and put down other races but it rarely gets violent from their part... yet I don't know too many people who claim they are non-violent or justified.
 
Upvote 0

TG123

Regular Member
Jul 1, 2006
4,965
203
somewhere
✟21,969.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So, if some EDL supporters do something bad then EDL is bad. If a few Muslims blow up the underground in London and Madrid though, they're not "real Muslims." Political correctness is going to cause more people get hurt in the long run than anything humanity has ever seen.
I guess if some neo-nazis murder a black person it's unfair to say Aryan Nations is bad, since most of them "only" call black people monkeys and crack users but most don't beat them up? And I am only aware of only a handful of American neo-nazis who actually killed or physically harmed a Jewish person... most "only" vilify and demonize them.

Comparing EDL to Muslims is not a fair comparison, comparing EDL to Muslim groups is. If you want to compare, compare Christians or atheists or Jews or Hindus or Buddhists to Muslims. EDL is a group, not a religion. Compare them to Muslim organizations if you want. If you want to talk of the London bomb attack why not compare the EDL to the group that performed the Subway bombings... the EDL is less violent, hands down. Aryan Nations is also far less violent than the Bloods or Crips. Are you going to start legitimizing them, too?
 
Upvote 0

TG123

Regular Member
Jul 1, 2006
4,965
203
somewhere
✟21,969.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Not speaking from a christian perspective, any group (like EDL) that educates peoples as to the dangers and truths of islam, is doing the public a service. If they get to them before muslims do, that's a good thing.
Why are you not speaking from a Christian perspective? Are you a Christian in some parts of your life and not in others?

You could say Aryan Nations also educates people to the dangers and truths of African American and Hispanic American gang activity... I wouldn't say that them 'getting to anyone' and convincing them to see the world from their eyes is a good thing.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.