Islamic Misogyny

[b&wpac4]

This is not Islam or Christianity; it is the beliefs in superstitions and in the inherent biblical superiority of the male (in all 3 Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity, Islam).

Sorry, I just got up off the floor from laughing at you thinking my fiancee has any belief at all that I am superior. Ever met a Jewish wife?

 

[tanzanos]

Sorry, I just got up off the floor from laughing at you thinking my fiancee has any belief at all that I am superior. Ever met a Jewish wife?

You have it all wrong! I clearly said that in the religion it is made clear that the man is superior to the woman. Make haste slowly my friend lest you end up staying on the floor. Yes I know Jewish women; they are identical to Greek women! Woe betide the man who underestimates them!

Seriously folks! In India there is a tribe where it is the women that rule. It is the women that can inherit and pass on inheritance. And it is the women that can marry more than one man. The difference is that this tribe does not belong to any of the Abrahamic religions. To the ones who ascribe to the teachings of the Bible, Quraan, regarding the "God made Man first" thing I reply with: "Dust before the broom".

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Tanzanos,

This is not Islam or Christianity;

well its is Islam, the OP is about women who wear the veil which is an Islamic thing.

it is the beliefs in superstitions and in the inherent biblical superiority of the male (in all 3 Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity, Islam).

The thread and OP isn’t about Judaism and Christianity, but about Islam, and I would disagree with you about the 3 Abrahmic faiths as Islam differs from Judaism and Christianity in that respect.

Religion is the bane of civilised societies.
It is no wonder that the more fervently one believes in God the more he or she are likely to condone the taking of life!

I would suggest the opposite, more were killed in the last century but atheist ideologies such as Communism and Nazism than in the name of religion in all the previous centuries. Furthermore in the name of the religion isnt exactly the religion if the religion is about not killing people.

 

[sandwiches]

I would suggest the opposite, more were killed in the last century but atheist ideologies such as Communism and Nazism than in the name of religion in all the previous centuries. Furthermore in the name of the religion isnt exactly the religion if the religion is about not killing people.

Atheism isn't about killing people, either. So, how can you make that exception for religion but, somehow, not believing in a god leads to Communism and Nazism?

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Sandwiches,
Let me clarify, more people were killed under atheist ideologies, than under religious ideologies.

and the thread and OP is about what happens under Isamlic ideology

 

[HannahBanana]

To Sandwiches,
Let me clarify, more people were killed under atheist ideologies, than under religious ideologies.

and the thread and OP is about what happens under Isamlic ideology

Atheist ideologies such as...? I mean, how can atheism have any ideologies when not all atheists believe the same things (other than that God doesn't exist, that is)? In fact, I'd love to see at least one example of an atheist who killed people in the name of atheism.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Hannahbanana,

atheist ideologies such as...? I mean, how can atheism have any ideologies when not all atheists believe the same things (other than that God doesn't exist, that is)? In fact, I'd love to see at least one example of an atheist who killed people in the name of atheism.

That communism for example doesn’t believe in God its an atheist ideology rather than a religious one. .. obviously.

 

[Gishin]

I am an atheist capitalist.

 

[sandwiches]

To Hannahbanana,
That communism for example doesn’t believe in God its an atheist ideology rather than a religious one. .. obviously.

Well, it would be obvious, if it were true. While most countries that have instituted communism have indeed tried to establish atheism, it has only been done because it seems that most communist rulers, except for a few like Laos, have agreed with the Marxist view that religion is the opiate of the masses. However, to reiterate, communism does NOT require atheism nor does atheism lead one inexorably to communism.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Sandwiches,

Well, it would be obvious, if it were true.

So if it were not true that communism is an atheist ideology it must be a religious one. Yet it isn’t.

Nb what you are referring to is what you think countries think they do.

However, to reiterate, communism does NOT require atheism nor does atheism lead one inexorably to communism.

Never said either of those things, what I said was That communism for example doesn’t believe in God its an atheist ideology rather than a religious one.

Don't forget that the point was religious ideologies dont cause as much death as ideologies such as communism have done.

 

[quatona]

To Sandwiches,
So if it were not true that communism is an atheist ideology it must be a religious one. Yet it isn’t.

Logical fallacy.
So if it were not true that vegetarianism is an atheist ideology it must be a religious one.

 

[ebia]

I would call it Islamic misogyny, if only for the reason that Islamic countries such as Pakistan have laws which institutionalise the abuse and subjugation of women. Women in Islamic countries are routinely given less rights and protections than men - they can be stoned to death for not marrying their rapist, for example, and it is legal. Islam in these countries is the state sanctioned religion and the punishments in the name of Islam then generally have state backing.

Which in turn poses an interesting question - Are things intrinsically wrong? If your government and your family and your religion and your society say that pouring acid on a woman's face is an acceptable thing to do, are you supposed to intrinsically know that it is not?

Pakistani laws do not say its okay to throw acid on a woman's face.

I think this might be the point in time to point out that both Pakistan and Indonesia - the world's two biggest Islamic countries - have both elected women as presidents in the past; something one cannot say for about the world's biggest Christian country.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To ebia,

Pakistani laws do not say its okay to throw acid on a woman's face.

There is no implication the reported events had anything to do with the laws of Pakistan, rather they suggest because the women dared to reject someone in marriage or because they wanted a divorce. Knowing the various interpretations of sharia law and the incidents we often hear about, I think the question is, is it justified in sharia law or under Islam or are these incidents in disobedience to sharia law and Islam.

I think this might be the point in time to point out that both Pakistan and Indonesia - the world's two biggest Islamic countries - have both elected women as presidents in the past; something one cannot say for about the world's biggest Christian country.

For a start many people on this forum would disagree with you that the US is a Christian country, some of the reported incidents occurred in Pakistan, so I don’t see what benefit an elected woman president has.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To quatona,

So if it were not true that vegetarianism is an atheist ideology it must be a religious one.

logical fallacy and non sequitur. Do you understand what a logical fallacy is? The contention was that

It is no wonder that the more fervently one believes in God the more he or she are likely to condone the taking of life!

As more people were killed in communist countries last century it suggest the opposite in that the less people believe in God the more they condone the killing.
I would add to this that many today don’t even recognise killing such as abortion. But I think we need to re-focus on the OP and thread which doesnt implicate all religion, but one religion only.

 

[David Brider]

To Sandwiches,
So if it were not true that communism is an atheist ideology it must be a religious one. Yet it isn’t.

Actually, it's neither. It's a purely secular ideology - it promotes neither atheism nor any specific religion.

David.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To David Brider,

- it promotes neither atheism nor any specific religion.

‘promote’ is irrelevant if it does neither.

Actually, it's neither. It's a purely secular ideology

Yes, so then it isn’t religious so the original remark was incorrect.
The idea that more people are killed when people believe in God is debateable in itself because I would say if people are prepared to kill they don’t believe in God, Jesus taught to love even ones enemies.

 

[quatona]

To quatona,
logical fallacy and non sequitur.

Exactly my point.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To quatona,
Exactly my point.

 

[ebia]

To ebia,
There is no implication the reported events had anything to do with the laws of Pakistan, rather they suggest because the women dared to reject someone in marriage or because they wanted a divorce. Knowing the various interpretations of sharia law and the incidents we often hear about, I think the question is, is it justified in sharia law or under Islam or are these incidents in disobedience to sharia law and Islam.

My point is that one needs to make sure one is distinguishing between such ideas as Sharia Law and the law of the countries one is talking about. Some will interpret Sharia lawa as supporting such actions, while the law of Pakistan makes such actions clearly illegal. To equivocate between the two, or be vague about which one is talking about is misleading.

For a start many people on this forum would disagree with you that the US is a Christian country, some of the reported incidents occurred in Pakistan, so I don’t see what benefit an elected woman president has.

The point is that on other measures the US can appear more mysogynist than Pakistan and point to Christianity being as mysogynist as Islam.

People who have never been there assume Pakistan is a homogenous place - it isn't. Go to N.W.F.P. and women do need to cover up, but go to Karachi or Islamabad and (outside the extreme slums where poverty gives power to the Taliban who have mone) women are highly liberated. Just as one would get a different impression on whether the US is racist if one went to certain places in the South or to Boston, one would get a different impression on equivalent issues in different places in Pakistan.

Pakistan is a fantastic country with immense problems, but nobody is well served by creating characatures.

 

[Redheadedstepchild]

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