Islamic Misogyny

[quatona]

Which in turn poses an interesting question - Are things intrinsically wrong?

No.

If your government and your family and your religion and your society say that pouring acid on a woman's face is an acceptable thing to do, are you supposed to intrinsically know that it is not?

I´m not sure I understand this question. What do you mean - "supposed to...". Supposed by whom?

 

[brightmorningstar]

To quatona,
I think its a good question. I dont see how you cant understand it. If BasinBrat will forgive me and correct me if I am wrong.
If we lived in a country where the sharia law of our religion that our government followed our family followed said it was alright to do this, how could we know it wasnt?

 

[HannahBanana]

To HannahBanana,
Because Islam as well as the culture, is the ideology behind this. By the way Jesus teaches not to punish but also that in the world people will be out in prison and punished.

No, Islam is not behind this. Islamic fundamentalism is behind this. It's just as possible to be a liberal Muslim as it is to be a liberal Christian. Don't act as though all Muslims have to take the Qu'ran 100% literally.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To Hannabanana,

No, Islam is not behind this. Islamic fundamentalism is behind this. It's just as possible to be a liberal Muslim as it is to be a liberal Christian. Don't act as though all Muslims have to take the Qu'ran 100% literally.

According to whom?
If they dont have to take the Quran literally they can throw acid in the face if they decide that cant they? Your remark doesn't make sense.
My view is there can be no such thing as a liberal Muslim or Christian, the respective faith in is Allah according Mohammed's testimony or God through Jesus Christ says they can't. Liberal Muslim and liberal Christain would therefore be the complete opposite of Muslim and Christian by definition.
No the test is to see what the Quaran and Haddith say and what Mohammed did, then we can see whether its founded in Islamic faith.

 

[HannahBanana]

To Hannabanana,

According to whom?
If they dont have to take the Quran literally they can throw acid in the face if they decide that cant they? Your remark doesn't make sense.
My view is there can be no such thing as a liberal Muslim or Christian, the respective faith in is Allah according Mohammed's testimony or God through Jesus Christ says they can't. Liberal Muslim and liberal Christain would therefore be the complete opposite of Muslim and Christian by definition.
No the test is to see what the Quaran and Haddith say and what Mohammed did, then we can see whether its founded in Islamic faith.

Just because you think all religious people should be fundamentalists doesn't make that true. There are plenty of liberal Muslims and liberal Christians, and those people will continue to exist, whether or not you accept them.

Also, I suggest you go post on the "Whosoever Will, May Come" forum (the forum here on CF for liberal Christians) and tell the people on there that you think they're wrong for being liberal Christians. After all, if you really believe that liberal Christianity is an impossibility, you should have no problem with actually saying that to liberal Christians.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To HannahBanana,

Just because you think all religious people should be fundamentalists doesn't make that true.

If you addressed my points to you, you find out. All I know is that Christ said His disciples were to seek to follow all His teaching. Who are you to say otherwise?

There are plenty of liberal Muslims and liberal Christians, and those people will continue to exist, whether or not you accept them.

If you are agnostic why are you suggesting I accept them? Why ask me to accept something you don’t believe, or they as it seems?

This thread is about Islamic Mysogny and certain incidents which are attributed to Muslims who do reportedly do these things.
We can try and find out the reason,
I am a Christian, you don’t have the icon so please quit trying to tell me what makes a Christian. For your education, Christ said if His disciples are to obey all He taught, so I would say those who make their own minds up are probably only disciples in their own heads.
Now kindly address the OP and thread theme

 

[HannahBanana]

To HannahBanana,
If you addressed my points to you, you find out. All I know is that Christ said His disciples were to seek to follow all His teaching. Who are you to say otherwise?

If you are agnostic why are you suggesting I accept them? Why ask me to accept something you don’t believe, or they as it seems?

This thread is about Islamic Mysogny and certain incidents which are attributed to Muslims who do reportedly do these things.
We can try and find out the reason,
I am a Christian, you don’t have the icon so please quit trying to tell me what makes a Christian. For your education, Christ said if His disciples are to obey all He taught, so I would say those who make their own minds up are probably only disciples in their own heads.
Now kindly address the OP and thread theme

I think you should accept them not because they're Christian, but because they deserve respect, just like everyone else in the world does.

And since when do liberal Christians not follow Christ's teachings? Do you even know what liberal Christianity is? Here's some information about it:

What Liberal Protestants Believe - Beliefnet.com

 

[brightmorningstar]

To HannahBanana,

I think you should accept them not because they're Christian, but because they deserve respect, just like everyone else in the world does.

Sorry but I can’t accept imaginary things in your mind, and I there is no-one I don’t accept. If you are talking about accepting what you imagine are liberal Christians, perhaps you should show some respect for what you image are fundamentalist Christians.

And since when do liberal Christians not follow Christ's teachings?

you tell me, you are the one who mentioned it.

Do you even know what liberal Christianity is? Here's some information about it:

What Liberal Protestants Believe - Beliefnet.com

Well let me ask you this then.
The Christian church adopted what they decided was the authentic record as the word of God which became the cannon of scripture and what we know today.

• Incarnations

Beliefs vary from the literal to the symbolic belief in Jesus Christ as God's incarnation. Some believe we are all sons and daughters of God and that Christ was exemplary, but not God.

Jesus was seen in the flesh so He can’t be symbolic, so that doesnt follow Christ's teaching. One wonders where the idea comes from. Jesus says all are God’s creation but sons of God are those who accept Jesus so one wonders where if not from any record of Jesus Christ Liberal Christianity gets its idea from.

• After Death

Goodness will somehow be rewarded and evil punished after death, but what is most important is how you show your faith and conduct your life on earth.

this is not what Jesus taught in the NT so liberal Christianity doesnt follow Christ's teaching there. One wonders where the idea came from as its not from God.

• Why Evil?

Most do not believe that humanity inherited original sin from Adam and Eve or that Satan actually exists.

Well Jesus Christ’s NT teaching says in Adam all die but in Christ all are alive, so thats not following Christ's teaching either.

Most believe that God is good and made people inherently good, but also with free will and imperfect nature, which leads some to immoral behavior.

Well that is contrary to Christ's teaching as well. Even if liberal Christianity believes creation is symbolic one cant get that symbolism from it.

• Salvation

Various beliefs: Some believe all will go to heaven, as God is loving and forgiving.

Well God so loved the world that He gave his only Son, so God has proven His love, but Jesus Christ’s NT says all who believe will not perish but receive eternal life, so thats not following Chreist's teaching either. Other teaching from the NT shows some wont be saved, so this wishful thinking isnt in line with Christ’s teaching.

Others believe salvation lies in doing good works and no harm to others, regardless of faith.

Well that’s not what Jesus Christ taught so one wonders where that idea comes from. Jesus taught that salvation is through Him alone and so no other faith is valid. Jesus Christ taught that works without Him are dead works and those that love Him do His work.

Some believe baptism is important.

Baptism would seem to be important and Jesus was baptised and instructed His disciples to baptise. Why would liberal Christianity not seek to follow the instructions of Jesus?

Some believe the concept of salvation after death is symbolic or nonexistent.

then they don’t believe what Jesus assured His disciples.

• Undeserved Suffering

Most Liberal Christians do not believe that Satan causes suffering.

why not, Jesus said Satan destroys and steals.

Some believe suffering is part of God's plan, will, or design, even if we don't immediately understand it. Some don't believe in any spiritual reasons for suffering, and most take a humanistic approach to helping those in need.

Of course many of the miracles Jesus did was healing and instructed His disciples to pray for healing. Jesus said believe at least on the miracles.

• Contemporary Issues

Most churches teach that abortion is morally wrong, but many ultimately support a woman's right to choose, usually accompanied by policies to provide counseling on alternatives. Many are accepting of homosexuality and gay rights.

God’s word says God knows us in the womb and life is sacred to God, so what some churches believe is either in line with God’s purposes or outside it. God’s word says woman was created to be in faithful union with man, or celibacy, same sex relations are error.

Thanks for this but sadly many of these beliefs don’t sound like Christian ones to me, whether beliefnet thinks they are or not. Certainly beliefnet shows what some think is liberal Christianity, but that is not a view shared by most who cal themselves Christian, nor are some of them in line with the basic statements of faith such as the Nicene Creed.

I wonder where some of those views came from. You claimed this liberal Chistianity follwed Christ's teaching but then show me site where we can see where it doesnt. Besides if you find it impossible to know whether there is a God how can you possibly comment on who might be right about God?

Nonetheless, one cant have faith in someone one doesn’t have faith in, and the definition of Islam and Christianity is according to who they follow not what people claim or reason for themselves.


If you would like to compare any of these views against the NT I sahll be happy to quote the relevant passages.

 

[HannahBanana]

BrightMorningStar, you do realize that plenty of Christians (especially Catholics) wouldn't consider you to be a Christian, since you're Anglican, don't you? So why do you think that your opinion of whether or not liberal Christians are Christians matters any more than a Catholic's opinion of whether or not you are a Christian?

 

[Mahammad]

Yeah, women have it very bad around these animals. These type of animals have no excuse at all. I have much more respect for the real animal world. I'm sorry that she didnt have a gun to defend herself against this malignant monster. The same should be done to him!! Only 10x's.

Islamic Misogyny « NewsReal Blog

oh another Islam is evil thread

I can name many Christians rape there daughters and throw them in the closet for 20 years, kill there children because they practice witch craft or even honor killing there daughters because they married a Muslim.

Did I win the thread?

 

[quatona]

To quatona,
I think its a good question. I dont see how you cant understand it.

I tried to explain which part I didn´t understand and asked a concrete question. I don´t know what else I could do to explain what I didn´t understand.

If BasinBrat will forgive me and correct me if I am wrong.
If we lived in a country where the sharia law of our religion that our government followed our family followed said it was alright to do this, how could we know it wasnt?

Well, we can´t know it (and which government says what is completely immaterial to this).
I disagree with a lot of what the government of my country says.

 

[Verv]

Yeah, women have it very bad around these animals. These type of animals have no excuse at all. I have much more respect for the real animal world. I'm sorry that she didnt have a gun to defend herself against this malignant monster. The same should be done to him!! Only 10x's.

Islamic Misogyny « NewsReal Blog

I really understand your anger about it, and the sense of rage that people get, but I think that we should not call them animals and use such scurrilous derision. I have been guilty of it but I do say...

Try to qualify this by saying 'Islamic extremism.'

There are indeed moderate Muslims who, though still abide by many doctrinal beliefs that are fundamentally sexist, that do not deserve to be lumped in with this.

 

[brightmorningstar]

.


To HannahBanana,

BrightMorningStar, you do realize that plenty of Christians (especially Catholics) wouldn't consider you to be a Christian, since you're Anglican, don't you?

I know many Roman Catholics and not one of them doesn’t consider me a Christian. As I said I don think you know enough about what Christians believe to be able to discern Christians.

So why do you think that your opinion of whether or not liberal Christians are Christians matters any more than a Catholic's opinion of whether or not you are a Christian?

I can read the Bible and see what Jesus Christ taught so I can discern what is in line with what He says. In fact everyone can do this. I did not make the suggestion liberal Christians were not Christians, you are mischief making, what I pointed out was where the beliefs were contrary to the NT and Biblical testimony.
What intrigues me is what makes you as an agnostic think you can discern between different views about something you don’t believe in? If you are agnostic and don’t believe in God why are you keen for some to be recognised as believers?

 

[Ardeshir]

It has nothing to do with Islam. Its a local tribal thing. It was there long before Islam and it will always be like this.

 

[b&wpac4]

What intrigues me is what makes you as an agnostic think you can discern between different views about something you don’t believe in?

One must believe in something in order to offer opinions and views about it?

 

[Supernaut]

It was there long before Islam and it will always be like this.

Hopefully it will not. All things progress (some more slowly than others) and I believe that perhaps soon the world will see the brighter side of Islam and not label all muslims as terrorists.

 

[brightmorningstar]

One must believe in something in order to offer opinions and views about it?

Exactly! Thanks b&wpac4

 

[brightmorningstar]

Hopefully it will not. All things progress (some more slowly than others) and I believe that perhaps soon the world will see the brighter side of Islam and not label all muslims as terrorists.

Two somewhat different and separate things.

 

[tanzanos]

quat-

Jesus didn't say be a doormat. The bible is for laws to punish those who murder, rape and abuse others. I just believe this punishment fits the crime.

No! it is books like the Bible and Quran that condone such atrocities. It is religion that foments hate for the different. Only secular law and science can address such issues.

This is not Islam or Christianity; it is the beliefs in superstitions and in the inherent biblical superiority of the male (in all 3 Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity, Islam).

Religion is the bane of civilised societies.

It is no wonder that the more fervently one believes in God the more he or she are likely to condone the taking of life!

What hypocrisy, and what a shame it is for mankind and civilisation in general that such bronze age goat herding superstitions still persist.

Women are no different than males. In fact they are more important for the survival of the species than males are. Even hunters don't shoot female animals.

Shame!

 

[b&wpac4]

Exactly! Thanks b&wpac4

I'm sure you have an opinion about Islam and I'm sure you don't believe in it. Or do you mean something else?