Futurist Only Islamic and Christian Eschatology: The same story from opposing sides?

[Jamdoc]

Islamic scholar Kab al-Ahbar is quoted as saying

I find the Mahdi recorded in the books of the Prophets… For instance, the Book of Revelation says: “And I saw and behold a white horse. He that sat on him…went forth conquering and to conquer.”

It is clear that this man is the Mahdi who will ride the white horse and judge by the Qur’an (with justice) and with whom will be men with marks of prostration on their foreheads

I find it fascinating the parallels between Islamic Eschatology vs Christian Eschatology, in that within Islamic Eschatology they appear to be groomed to be the ones who literally follow the Antichrist.
The fact that the colors of the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse match the 4 colors highly associated with Islam, White, Red, Black, and Green (seriously look at the flags of Islamic nations)

and there is also in regards to the Chloros horse...

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Now traditionally people interpret that as 1/4 of the people on the earth die.
But Muslims comprise about 1/4 of the Earth's population, I consider the other possible meaning not that 1/4 of the people die, but 1/4 of the people are stirred up to cause death. The translation to me, can be interpreted either way. I don't know Greek, so I can't really say outright one way or the other.

But anyway, Muslims believe their messiah is the one commonly associated with the Antichrist in Christianity.

 

[Unqualified]

Maybe they are doing it right now in their part of the world. Killing and persecuting Christians there and each other.

 

[Jamdoc]

Maybe they are doing it right now in their part of the world. Killing and persecuting Christians there and each other.

I think it'll be more pronounced, but generally same idea. A final Jihad kinda thing.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Yes I've been into this topic since at least 2014. Watch a lot of video from Joel Richardson, Middle East Beast, and some from Walid Shoebat.

Really fascinating it is like a reverse mirror image etc.

 

[Jamdoc]

Yes I've been into this topic since at least 2014. Really fascinating it is like a reverse mirror image etc.

It's just incredible. There's a lot of false religions in the world but Islam is the one that most characteristically has the touch of Satan on it, to groom people to directly follow his guy.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

It's just incredible. There's a lot of false religions in the world but Islam is the one that most characteristically has the touch of Satan on it, to groom people to directly follow his guy.

Even in the early days like the 80s I was wondering about stuff like that. It's like Mohammed's acceptance of this, almost seems like the fall of Adam, but worse as far his culpability (He really put aside his better judgement) Mohammed was really upset and interpreted things on face value that it was a demon etc. but his wife managed to talk him into accepting the revelations etc. But yeah the accounts sound scary like demonic possession / oppression with the way the spirit strangled him to get him to recite his prophetic poetry.

 

[Jamdoc]

Even in the early days like the 80s I was wondering about stuff like that. It's like Mohammed's acceptance of this, almost seems like Adam's only worse. Mohammed was really upset and interpreted things on face value that it was a demon etc. but his wife managed to talk him into accepting the revelations etc. But yeah the accounts sound scary like demonic possession / oppression.

Yeah, Gabriel never grabbed Daniel by the throat and lifted him off the ground and made commandments of him...

 

[Pavel Mosko]

But there is tons of stuff there. And not just with Revelation but kind through whole Bible. Arabia was one of the last hold outs of the Baal and Ashtoreth cult that we see in the Old Testament. And their are these little things like when the Midianites invade in Genesis and capture Abraham and lots relatives they have cresent charms around their camels necks etc. Midian in the Bible is upper Arabia etc.

 

[Kenneth Heck]

Neither the Mahdi or the second coming of Christ is found in Revelation. The Mahdi in Islamic prophecies is present at the time of Christ's second coming, and sees and speaks with him. Christ does not come on a white horse - he comes the same way as he went, by direct descent from heaven (Acts 1:11).

Because there are further wars and battles - the three other horses - the Mahdi cannot be on the white horse. The Mahdi specifically fights against the adherents of the Antichrist and reduces their number in the Middle East. The teachings of the Antichrist are vile perversions of true Jewish and Christian doctrines, and many so-called Jews and Christians actually under the Antichrist are killed by the Mahdi. Fake Muslims are also killed.

However, it takes Christ's second coming to kill the Antichrist (2 Thes 2:8) The Mahdi is not permitted to do it. The final disposition of all the Antichrist followers is described in Matt 25:31-44.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Well this is a subject I've only dabbled in but I trust the scholarship and experience of other people who see much of the Islamic teaching of the Mahdi as basically anointing and depicted in the Antichrist as the true Messiah.

And this is not just a modern teaching or Biblical interpretation but goes back in early Christian history to the early Church Fathers that lived centuries before Mohammed, to the later ones like Saint John of Damascus and others that lived after Mohammed. But besides all this there is the general fact lost on many people who are into the End Times, the Biblical books were written in the Middle East, to a Middle Eastern people, all the places likewise refers to the general region of Asia Minor and the Mediterranean etc. Therefore we should not be surprised if the End Times actually reflects that context as well. But I like how Joel Richardson explains that bit of Common sense in this little promotional mini-video series that is bundled into this large video promoting his first book on the basic topic.

 

[public hermit]

But anyway, Muslims believe their messiah is the one commonly associated with the Antichrist in Christianity

This is far outside my wheelhouse, but aren't some Muslims waiting for the return of Jesus, e.g. ISIS? I know I've read this, but perhaps someone here knows the details?

 

[Jamdoc]

Neither the Mahdi or the second coming of Christ is found in Revelation. The Mahdi in Islamic prophecies is present at the time of Christ's second coming, and sees and speaks with him. Christ does not come on a white horse - he comes the same way as he went, by direct descent from heaven (Acts 1:11).

Because there are further wars and battles - the three other horses - the Mahdi cannot be on the white horse. The Mahdi specifically fights against the adherents of the Antichrist and reduces their number in the Middle East. The teachings of the Antichrist are vile perversions of true Jewish and Christian doctrines, and many so-called Jews and Christians actually under the Antichrist are killed by the Mahdi. Fake Muslims are also killed.

However, it takes Christ's second coming to kill the Antichrist (2 Thes 2:8) The Mahdi is not permitted to do it. The final disposition of all the Antichrist followers is described in Matt 25:31-44.

It's muslim scholars that say the Mahdi will come on a white horse, it's why very prominent Muslim leaders have white horses because they all believe they could be the Mahdi.

 

[Jamdoc]

This is far outside my wheelhouse, but aren't some Muslims waiting for the return of Jesus, e.g. ISIS? I know I've read this, but perhaps someone here knows the details?

They're waiting for Isa, son of Maryam, who is to them, Jesus yes, but they believe Jesus will defer to the Mahdi. Perhaps "Isa" is the false prophet, I dunno.

I mean.. Isa/Jesus is a prophet (although as Jesus says, much more than a prophet, but not to the Muslims), while the Mahdi seems to be a political leader.

So them working as a pair and if Muslim scholars identify the Mahdi as the first seal in Revelation, that'd make the Mahdi the Antichrist, and "Jesus" the false prophet.
Islamic Eschatology actually does seem to support this as well.
for them Jesus suddenly appears in Damascus during morning prayer robed in yellow, after the Mahdi (where Jesus in the bible will come from heaven appearing in the clouds and then descending on the Mount of Olives.), and the main things that "Jesus" does is denounce Christianity ("break the cross" the way the Qur'an terms it), kill Jews ("kill the pigs" as the Qur'an terms it, because they believe Jews have been forsaken by God for disobedience and are now the equivalent of pigs, an unclean animal), and abolish the Jizyah tax (a tax imposed on non believers in Islamic countries), namely because everyone will be forced to convert to Islam.
In Revelation 13, it is the False Prophet who causes this "convert or die" campaign with the image of the beast and the mark of the beast.

In Christianity, first comes the Antichrist, a world leader/political and military leader, then comes the False Prophet, a religious leader that steers people to worship the first beast/Antichrist. The faithful are persecuted and then Jesus returns and destroys them.

In Islam, first comes minor signs (beginnings of birth pangs as Jesus describes them), then comes the Mahdi, the first of the major signs of the hour. The Mahdi is a political leader, then comes Isa, a great prophet in Islam, oddly described as having ruddy skin (like Esau), a religious leader that defers to the Mahdi. They will kill Christians and Jews, and dominate the world, and then comes Dajjal (their version of Antichrist) and Isa will kill him.

so it's paralleling the same events from the opposing sides, with differing outcomes.

 

[Acts29]

Abu Hurayrah said: "The Prophet said, 'Hasten to do good deeds before six things happen: the rising of the sun from the West, the smoke, the Dajjal, the Beast, the (death) of one of you or general tribulation.' " (Muslim.) Baridah said: "The Prophet took me to a place in the desert, near Makkah. It was a dry piece of land surrounded by sand. The Prophet said, 'The Beast will emerge from this place. It was a very small area.' " (Ibn Majah)

It was reported from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said, "The Beast of the Earth will emerge, and will have with it the rod of Moses and the ring of Solomon." It was also reported that he said, "(The Beast) will destroy the noses of the unbelievers with the ring, - so that people seated around one table will begin to address one another with the words "O Believer!" or "O Unbeliever!" (i e, everyone's status will become clear). (Ibn Majah.)

 

[Kenneth Heck]

Christ is a physical descendant of King David, who also was described as ruddy in the bible.

Dajjal (the liar) is the Antichrist who performs seemingly great miracles. The Antichrist does not depend on the military to rule his domain. He isn't found in the book of Revelation, neither is Christ's second coming. When Christ comes he will denounce all the false Christians and Jews who accepted the Antichrist.

The correct order of appearance is first Antichrist, then Mahdi, and last, Christ.

At Christ's birth, Simon Magus had already been born and established himself as "the great power of God" (Acts 8:10) through sorcery. Christ died and Simon lived on.

At Christ's second coming descending from heaven through the air, the Antichrist will have already established himself after also descending from the air (perhaps with help from aliens). This time the Antichrist will die and Christ will live on.