Islam

[daniel80]

hi I'm new so i don't know if you have already had this discussion.
i have been looking on the net at the work of Brigitte Gabriel, you can find her on you tube, and i was wondering what peoples view is, is there a place in western society for Islam?

 

[resistingrexmundi]

If their isn't one Islam will make one. It is the koran's message that everyone must be converted one way or the other. From a Christian viewpoint I would say all a Christian need know is that Islam rejects all the basic truths of Christianity. They deny that Jesus is the Son of God, God incarnate, was crucified for our sins, that he is a mediator between us and God and if that isn't bad enough they claim Muhammad to be superior. If you wish to explore Islam in depth without all the heavy propaganda I suggest reading the koran yourself. That is what helped me decide that Islam is corrupt. If you don't wish to do that, and I don't blame you if you do, then there are great books by ex-muslim scholars that give an in depth look at the nature of Islam. I would suggest Islam and Terrorism by Mark A. Gabriel ex-muslim scholar, Prophet of Doom by Craig Winn, this one is a free pdf at prophetofdoom.net, and The False Prophet by Ellis Skolfield, also a free pdf at fishouseministries.com. Though The False Prophet may challenge your eschatological views it may open your eyes as it did mine to the true threat of Islam.

 

[tulc]

hi I'm new so i don't know if you have already had this discussion.
i have been looking on the net at the work of Brigitte Gabriel, you can find her on you tube, and i was wondering what peoples view is, is there a place in western society for Islam?

Never heard of her before this, but from what I've read so far, she does seem more of a can of kerosene then a journalist.
tulc(welcome to CF!)

 

[citizenthom]

hi I'm new so i don't know if you have already had this discussion.
i have been looking on the net at the work of Brigitte Gabriel, you can find her on you tube, and i was wondering what peoples view is, is there a place in western society for Islam?

That's for Islam to decide. The biggest obstacle is that Islam is a specifically statist religion. Most of its doctrines presume a governmental body that will enforce its punishments against the populace, both believers and unbelievers. Some Muslims have let go of that belief and are willing to tolerate a secular government. The majority appear to go the other way, and the extremists actively seek to convert foreign governments into enforcement mechanisms for Islamic doctrine. As long as they want to do so, they have no place in an enlightened society.

 

[resistingrexmundi]

Most of its doctrines presume a governmental body that will enforce its punishments against the populace, both believers and unbelievers.

That is exactly right. To get a better idea of how serious Islam is about this I will let Islam speak for itself.

Its mandate is the reform of the whole world.
Such a religion cannot be indifferent. It cannot be without a law of jihad. In the same way, its government cannot
be without an army. While the scope of Christianity is extremely limited, that of Islam is extremely wide. While
Christianity does not cross the frontiers of advice, Islam is a religion which covers all the activities of human
life. It has laws which govern the society, economic laws, and political laws. It came to organize a state, to
organize a government.

Excerpt from The Holy War of Islam and Its Legitimacy in the Quran

Ayatullah Morteza Mutahhari

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

It is spelled out very clearly where the koran stands on the issue of other faiths. Even the most moderate muslim wants everyone to submit to Islam whether he is willing to kill for it or not.

Some Muslims have let go of that belief and are willing to tolerate a secular government.

Unfortunatly these muslims would be seen as apostate. And the result of apostasy in the koran is death.
Qur'an 4:89"They wish that you would reject Faith, as they have, and thus be on the same footing: Do not be friends with them until they leave their homes in Allah's Cause. But if they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them."

I hope this clears things up for you. The koran is very clear on what it intends to happen to all non-muslims.