Higher Truth: why the one true and Triune God 
Lord of the Universe, Prince of Peace, My Savior, My Lord, My Bridegroom . . .
Lord of the Universe, Prince of Peace, My Savior, My Lord, My Bridegroom . . .
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Islam
- Thread starter Chris†opher Paul
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its the Teragrammaton. He knows who you are talking to just as I know you mean me when you address me whether you call me Maximilain, Maximillion, or Maxamillian. all are acceptable spellings of my name.
He knows who you are talking to just as I know you mean me when you address me whether you call me Maximilain, Maximillion, or Maxamillian. all are acceptable spellings of my name.
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The enemy has always desired the worship of God's people. Is it possible that the enemy is trying to come up with a variation or a different name to accomplish this desire?
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Higher Truth: I would have to say NO. The heart matters just as much, if not more in such issues. God say's he knows the hearts of men. He Knows if you are seeking and naming Him or if you are seeking and naming some one else. AGAIN, we know that ONE of his names is the Tetragrammaton. He also has many many other names. If we worship him in spirit and in truth, the variation of a name does not change the person. I think an examination of the scriptures reveals that the Tetragrammaton is used in conjunction with a second title - YHVH Elohim (Lord God); YHVH M'kadesh (The Lord who Makes Holy); YHVH Nisi (The Lord my Miracle); YHVH O'saynu (The Lord our Maker), etc. The question is not how you call him Lord, but IF you call him Lord
I think an examination of the scriptures reveals that the Tetragrammaton is used in conjunction with a second title - YHVH Elohim (Lord God); YHVH M'kadesh (The Lord who Makes Holy); YHVH Nisi (The Lord my Miracle); YHVH O'saynu (The Lord our Maker), etc. The question is not how you call him Lord, but IF you call him Lord
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Grace and Peace to all,
Iam new to this site, but I am a moderator on an "ex-muslim" web site. I am not a muslim, nor ever have been. My personal feelings on the matter of whether we worship the same God is no. The reason is that their early Scriptures tell us that Muhammad agreed with Jews and Christians, but later when they denied his prophethood, the Qu'ran changed to a hostile view of them.
One has to ask would satan the master deceiver use the name satan? Or would he claim to be God? Those of us who are Christian know the power of Jesus death & resurrection, over satan. He needed to try to lead as many as possible away from that, and try to discredit it as well. Also to discredit the old Jewish Scriptures, which is exactly what Islam attemts to do.
Here's an interesting statements from a book entitled: Answering Islam by, Norman Geisler & Abdul Saleeb,
EVALUATION OF MUSLIM CLAIM FOR MUHAMMAD'S DIVINE CALL
For many critics of Islam the Muslim view of Muhammad sufferes from an acute case of overclaim. They do not find, for example, support for the claim that he was called to bring final revelation from God in the circumstances that surround Muhammad's call.
They point out that during his call he was choked by the angel. (Compare that with Daniels revelation) Muhammad himself said of the angel, "He choked me with the cloth until I believed that I should die.
Then he released me and said: 'Recite!' (Iqra)." When he hesitated, he received twice again the repeated harsh treatment." This seems to many an unusual form of coersion, unlike a gracious and merciful God Muslims claim Allah to be, as well as contrary to the free choice they claim he has granted his creatures.
Muhammad himself questioned the divine origin of the experience. At first he thought he was being deceived by a jinn or evil spirit. In fact, Muhammad was at first deathly afraid of the source of his new found revelation, but he was encouraged by his wife Khadija (whom was 15 yrs. his senior) and her cousin Waraqah to believe that the revelation was the same as that of Moses, and that he too, would be a prophet of his nation.
One of the most widely respected Muslim biographers, M.H. Haykal, speaks vivdly of Muhammad's plaguing fear that he was demon possessed:
Stricken with panic, Muhammad arose and asked himself, "What did I see? Did possession of the devil which I feared all along come to pass? Muhammad looked to his right and left and saw nothing. For awhile he stood there trembling with fear and stricken with awe. He feared the cave might be haunted and that he might run away still unable to explain what he saw.
I find that most interesting, based on the anger and hatred he had for Jews and Christians later on. I think that God will give powerful signs to all his people so there will be no mistaking his truth.
In Christ
ILJ
Iam new to this site, but I am a moderator on an "ex-muslim" web site. I am not a muslim, nor ever have been. My personal feelings on the matter of whether we worship the same God is no. The reason is that their early Scriptures tell us that Muhammad agreed with Jews and Christians, but later when they denied his prophethood, the Qu'ran changed to a hostile view of them.
One has to ask would satan the master deceiver use the name satan? Or would he claim to be God? Those of us who are Christian know the power of Jesus death & resurrection, over satan. He needed to try to lead as many as possible away from that, and try to discredit it as well. Also to discredit the old Jewish Scriptures, which is exactly what Islam attemts to do.
Here's an interesting statements from a book entitled: Answering Islam by, Norman Geisler & Abdul Saleeb,
EVALUATION OF MUSLIM CLAIM FOR MUHAMMAD'S DIVINE CALL
For many critics of Islam the Muslim view of Muhammad sufferes from an acute case of overclaim. They do not find, for example, support for the claim that he was called to bring final revelation from God in the circumstances that surround Muhammad's call.
They point out that during his call he was choked by the angel. (Compare that with Daniels revelation) Muhammad himself said of the angel, "He choked me with the cloth until I believed that I should die.
Then he released me and said: 'Recite!' (Iqra)." When he hesitated, he received twice again the repeated harsh treatment." This seems to many an unusual form of coersion, unlike a gracious and merciful God Muslims claim Allah to be, as well as contrary to the free choice they claim he has granted his creatures.
Muhammad himself questioned the divine origin of the experience. At first he thought he was being deceived by a jinn or evil spirit. In fact, Muhammad was at first deathly afraid of the source of his new found revelation, but he was encouraged by his wife Khadija (whom was 15 yrs. his senior) and her cousin Waraqah to believe that the revelation was the same as that of Moses, and that he too, would be a prophet of his nation.
One of the most widely respected Muslim biographers, M.H. Haykal, speaks vivdly of Muhammad's plaguing fear that he was demon possessed:
Stricken with panic, Muhammad arose and asked himself, "What did I see? Did possession of the devil which I feared all along come to pass? Muhammad looked to his right and left and saw nothing. For awhile he stood there trembling with fear and stricken with awe. He feared the cave might be haunted and that he might run away still unable to explain what he saw.
I find that most interesting, based on the anger and hatred he had for Jews and Christians later on. I think that God will give powerful signs to all his people so there will be no mistaking his truth.
In Christ
ILJ
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Muslims claim to worship the one true G-d, Mormons claim to worship the one true G-d, Jehovah's Witnesses claim to worship the one true G-d, Ba'hai practicioners claim to worship the one true G-d, etc, Marcionites claimed to worship the one true G-d, Gnostics claimed to worship the one true G-d, Pharisees claim to worship the one true G-d, etcetera, etc., etc. ad nauseam.
Now for some people they've followed the Creator of the world as best they can, and I believe they will be Paradise with us. However, the Heretics have received at least in part the Truth and turned away from the rest (in general, it is true that many Rabbinic Jews and Muslims have been taught to never even read or learn about the true beliefs of Messianics)
So I too believe that by their own lack of faith and love in the Creator they condemn themselves.
Though I wish all could be saved, it is up to each individual themselves.
Now for some people they've followed the Creator of the world as best they can, and I believe they will be Paradise with us. However, the Heretics have received at least in part the Truth and turned away from the rest (in general, it is true that many Rabbinic Jews and Muslims have been taught to never even read or learn about the true beliefs of Messianics)
So I too believe that by their own lack of faith and love in the Creator they condemn themselves.
Though I wish all could be saved, it is up to each individual themselves.
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Magisterium
Praying and Thinking
I share your wish that all could be saved. (As it is also G-d's will) However, I am drawn back to Jesus statement in Mt:15:14
"14 Let them alone: they are blind, and leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both fall into the pit."
I am also reminded of another quote "there are none so blind, as those who WILL not see"
However, It still breaks my heart.
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One basic foundational point that separates the muslim god from the christian God, is that while the God of Israel has a son, and His word is full of statements pointing to that son as the messiah, the god of islam claims to not have any children.
So on that point alone, even though muslims claim they worship the same god, how can it be, if their god has no son? They seem to overlook that...
Also keep in mind when dealing with muslims concerning their beliefs... they do believe that it is proper, at any time, to lie to any who they consider infidels. Acquiring the truth is not an easy task, they sincerely don't believe they are suppose to share it with you, but rather can tell you just about anything else they please.
So on that point alone, even though muslims claim they worship the same god, how can it be, if their god has no son? They seem to overlook that...
Also keep in mind when dealing with muslims concerning their beliefs... they do believe that it is proper, at any time, to lie to any who they consider infidels. Acquiring the truth is not an easy task, they sincerely don't believe they are suppose to share it with you, but rather can tell you just about anything else they please.
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