Islam doesn't condone terror

[plenary]

Stop defending this religion of murder.

The fruits of Islam for the last month or so:

2011.03.09 (Cairo, Egypt) - Nine Copts, including a child, are killed and over a hundred more injured when a Muslim mob hurls firebombs and shoots into a group protesting a church burning.
2011.03.09 (Adezai, Pakistan) - A Shahid suicide bomber detonates at the funeral of the wife of a peace committee member, sending over 40 souls to Allah.
2011.03.08 (Djelfa, Algeria) - Fundamentalist bombers attack a group of bird hunters, killing five.
2011.03.08 (Abu Ghraib, Iraq) - A government employee is dragged out of his home and stabbed to death in front of his family.
2011.03.08 (Faisalabad, Pakistan) - Islamists detonate a massive bomb at a gas station, incinerating over thirty innocents.
2011.03.08 (Asendabo, Ethiopia) - Two Christians are killed when angry Muslims rampage through their community, burning churches and homes.
2011.03.07 Thailand Pattani 1 1 A Buddhist man is killed and his mother seriously wounded in an Islamic drive-by.
2011.03.07 Afghanistan Jalalabad 2 19 Hardliners plant a bomb in front of a rival mosque, killing two people.
2011.03.07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Islamic 'separatists' shoot a man to death as he is returning home from work.
2011.03.06 Yemen Zinjibar 2 0 Islamic militia murder two men, one at a vegetable market.
2011.03.06 Iraq Basra 8 12 'Insurgents' attach a bomb to a passenger bus, killing eight innocents.
2011.03.06 Thailand Pattani 1 4 Muslim militants open fire on a market, killing a guard and seriously injuring four patrons.
2011.03.06 Thailand Pattani 1 0 Islamists shoot a 23-year-old man to death in front of his mother.
2011.03.06 Afghanistan Paktika 12 5 Five children are among a dozen civilians who bleed out following a fundamentalist roadside bombing. 2011.03.06 Thailand Pattani 1 3 A 64-year-old man is murdered when Muslim militants fire on a group of teachers.
2011.03.06 Iraq Baghdad 2 0 Two students die in an 'insurgent' ambush. 2011.03.05 Iraq Hilla 4 0 Terrorists take down four Iraqis with a roadside bomb.
2011.03.05 Pakistan Mohmand 2 7 Two members of a peace committee are taken apart by a Taliban rocket attack.
2011.03.05 Pakistan Karachi 2 0 A cleric and his son are murdered by Religion of Peace rivals.
2011.03.05 Thailand Pattani 1 2 A Buddhist monk is shot through the head in a Muslim drive-by. Two others are injured.
2011.03.05 Iraq Khalis 2 2 Terrorists burst into a cafe and shoot dead two patrons.
2011.03.04 Pakistan Nowshera 10 37 Sunnis detonate a powerful bomb at a Sufi mosque during Friday prayers, taking down ten worshippers. 2011.03.04 Egypt Sol 2 0 A Muslim mob, angry over a relationship between a Muslim girl and Christian boy, kills the two fathers and burns down a church. 2011.03.04 Pakistan Danda 1 0 Terrorists shoot a man to death outside a cafe for the crime of insulting Islam two years earlier. 2011.03.03 Pakistan Hangu 9 31 Women and children are among the casualties when a suicide car bomber detonates along a city street. 2011.03.03 Iraq Haditha 8 10 A suicide bomber wades into a crowd at a bank and sends eight customers to Allah. 2011.03.02 Iraq Mosul 1 0 Mujahideen bombers blow up a home, killing a civilian. 2011.03.02 Iraq Baghdad 1 20 A sectarian bombing leaves one person dead. 2011.03.02 Iraq Ramadi 1 3 One victims bleeds out after a suicide bomber attacks a rival mosque. 2011.03.02 Pakistan Karachi 1 0 A seminary teacher is shot to death by sectarian rivals. 2011.03.02 Germany Frankfurt 2 2 A gunmen yells 'Allah Akbar' and opens fire on unarmed US soldiers on a bus, killing two. 2011.03.02 Pakistan Islamabad 1 1 A Catholic cabinet minister is brutally shot to death in his car after being accused of blasphemy. 2011.03.01 Pakistan Miranshah 4 0 Four villagers are abducted and executed in captivity by Sunni fundamentalists. 2011.03.01 Yemen Abyan 2 11 An ambulance driver is among two people slain in an al-Qaeda ambush. 2011.03.01 Pakistan Pakhtunkhwa 2 0 Islamists are suspected of shooting a farmer and one other person to death. 2011.03.01 Pakistan Mohmand 3 1 Three tribesman are killed by a Taliban landmine. 2011.03.01 Pakistan Mardan 1 19 One student is killed when the Taliban throw a grenade into a girl's school. 2011.03.01 Ethiopia Oma 0 17 Seventeen students are beaten with rods and pelted with stones for distributing Bibles. 2011.03.01 Nigeria Maiduguri 1 0 Boko Haram gunmen murder an off-duty cop in his home. 2011.03.01 Pakistan Bara 1 0 Religion of Peace proponents behead a civilian and dump his head and torso in separate areas. 2011.03.01 Nigeria Maiduguri 1 0 A guard at a church is gunned down in an Islamist drive-by. 2011.02.28 Nigeria Kaduna 2 0 Two guards die from bullet wounds after Boko Haram gunmen roll up on a police station. 2011.02.28 India Baramulla 1 0 A shopkeeper is murdered by Mujahideen gunmen. 2011.02.28 India Srinagar 1 0 An engineer and father of three dies from shrapnel injuries suffered from an Islamist grenade attack at a market. 2011.02.28 Turkey Mersin 1 0 A 19-year-old woman is stabbed to death by her family after running away with her boyfriend. 2011.02.28 Nigeria Dabwak 5 0 A Christian mother and four of her children are slaughtered in their home by Muslim militants.. 2011.02.27 Afghanistan Arghandab 8 25 Taliban bombers take down eight civilians at a public event. 2011.02.27 Pakistan Landi Kotal 1 0 A tribal elder is abducted and murdered by suspected Lashkar-e-Islam. 2011.02.27 India Pulwama 1 0 Islamic militants shoot a truck driver to death in his home. 2011.02.27 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 54-year-old salesman is shot to death by Muslim militants. 2011.02.27 Somalia Mandera 1 10 A woman is killed when Islamic militia attack a Red Cross office. 2011.02.26 Afghanistan Faryab 4 30 A teenage suicide bomber detonates at a playing field, killing at least four civilian spectators. 2011.02.26 Afghanistan Khost 9 0 Three children and four women are among nine civilians pulverized by a roadside blast. 2011.02.26 Iraq Baghdad 1 0 A university professor is assassinated by suspected fundamentalists. 2011.02.26 Pakistan Peshawar 4 17 Mujahideen attack a fuel station, killing four people. 2011.02.26 Iraq Baiji 4 0 Terrorists attack an oil refinery and murder four employees. 2011.02.25 Iraq Fallujah 6 1 al-Qaeda gunmen storm a home and shoot six residents to death. 2011.02.25 Russia Nalchik 0 12 A dozen guards are injured when Islamists try to stage a grenade attack on a hospital. 2011.02.24 Iraq Mahata 4 0 A man and his three sons are brutally shot to death by al-Qaeda fundamentalists. 2011.02.24 Afghanistan Spin Boldak 1 26 Two suicide car bombers kill only the guard managing to stop them. 2011.02.24 Iraq Ramadi 11 18 A Sunni suicide bomber detonates at a Shia cultural center, shredding eleven innocent lives. 2011.02.24 Iraq Baghdad 1 0 A 70-year-old Christian man is stabbed to death in his home by Muslim radicals. 2011.02.24 Pakistan Peshawar 4 0 Four drivers and their assistants are incinerated when Islamists firebomb a group of fuel tankers. 2011.02.24 Egypt Wadi el-Natroun 0 19 Two monks are among nineteen injured when military forces storm a Coptic monastery with live ammunition. 2011.02.23 Nigeria Maiduguri 1 0 A cop is gunned down by Boko Haram Islamists. 2011.02.23 Pakistan Landikotal 5 2 Five local security personnel are killed during a Taliban assault on their post. 2011.02.23 Egypt Assiut 1 0 A priest is brutally stabbed to death in his home by killers shouting 'Allah Akbar!' 2011.02.23 Gaza Khan Younis 1 2 A 10-year-old girl is killed when a Hamas bomb detonate prematurely. 2011.02.22 Oman Coast 4 0 A retired missionary couple is among four Americans taken hostage and executed in cold blood by Muslim pirates. 2011.02.22 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 38-year-old man is murdered in an 'insurgent' drive-by shooting. 2011.02.22 Nigeria Borno 18 7 Eighteen Christian villagers are massacred during a Muslim raid. 2011.02.22 Pakistan Torghundai 6 10 Three children, ages 3, 6 & 8, and two women are among six killed in their homes by a Taliban rocket attack. 2011.02.22 Iraq Baqubah 1 0 An imam in murdered in his mosque by Religion of Peace rivals. 2011.02.21 Iraq Samarrah 12 18 A dozen police sent to guard Shia pilgrims are blown to bits by a Sunni suicide bomber. 2011.02.21 Thailand Narathiwat 1 1 A Buddhist couple is targeted by Muslim terrorists, witth the husband dying from injuries. 2011.02.21 Pakistan Hajano 1 0 A 55-year-old woman is murdered in her sleep by her son for having an affair.

 

[Montalban]

During 'Umar and 'Uthmaan's times, the Muslim empire expanded greatly through military means. This is true. One thing that was common was for rulers of conquered lands that were liked by their people and did a good job were allowed to keep their positions, just be under the supervision of the Muslim Caliph.

Really? So they polled the people as to who was their top 10 leader and that leader got to go to Hollywood?

Now, you may have your own view on this, but, for us, we see a 6th/7th century world where women, slaves, etc. had no rights.

Did they poll the slaves and women too?

Perhaps you complain that Muslim women only inherit 1/2 that which her brother inherits, for example, but recall that, in those days, women outside the Islamic empire didn't get to inherit anything at all, so Islam brought a lot of good for the people, and that is just one small example. These Muslim caliphs improved living conditions throughout the empire.

I'm not aware that women were unable to inherit property before Islam.

The Picts were a non-Islamic people who's wealth was passed down through women. Perhaps you've never heard of them but your statement suggests that NO women outside Islam, before Islam could inherit property.

You need to read Engels The Origin of the Family, Private Property, and the State. I have it in Penguin. He talks of communal marriages, etc., and communal property.

It's true that non-Muslims who resided in the empire had to pay different taxes, and, yes, it is reported that 'Umar asked that at least some of them distinguish themselves from the Muslims, but that's in line with what we know of his personality as seen throughout the story of his life. He was the 'tough guy'. The people (the Muslims) were scared to death when Abu Bakr appointed him as the next Caliph. If you see 'Umar's inauguration speech, you see him telling the people not to worry.. that he wouldn't be as harsh as they'd known him to be in the past. He told them that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Abu Bakr had been 'softies' and that he had to be the 'tough guy' that showed the other perspective to things.... because they had always been the 'good cops', he had to act the 'bad cop'. He told them that now, since they were gone, he knew he had to learn to be softer. He made a famous prayer, I believe that same day, in which he said, 'Oh, Allah, I am hard, please soften me.' I remember that as a kid, I would frown upon 'Umar's harshness... but as I grew and read more and more of his biography, I saw a man whose words oozed sincerity. A man who stood up for what he felt was right and just. A man who changed A LOT during his life.. and always for the better. Stories narrated from the end of his life show a much milder 'Umar, very unlike the harsh 'Umar of his younger years. Perhaps age and maturity had something to do with it, but I also believe that as he grew in faith, he grew in exemplary conduct... and now I am totally off-topic.

When Dhimmi were called to pay their tax they could be ritually humilated.

 

[plenary]

One part of the Muslims are butchering Muslims and non-Muslims alike, whereas the other part is sounding the trumpet and praising Islam....

Please stop this disharmonious symphony, it is like the sound of schreeching chalk on a blackboard...

 

[Satt]

I called Chuick Norris. He said he is considering wiping out the Muslim world.

 

[JJWhite]

"And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, would you force the people in order that they become believers?" (10:99)

It makes no sense to force someone to become Muslim. It wouldn't work... the person wouldn't even really be a Muslim. One has to make the choice for himself/herself.

 

[Supreme]

"And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, would you force the people in order that they become believers?" (10:99)

It makes no sense to force someone to become Muslim. It wouldn't work... the person wouldn't even really be a Muslim. One has to make the choice for himself/herself.

It may make no sense, but it undoubtedly happened, especially in areas such a Yemen- with its large Jewish community- where Jews had to outwardly practise Islam but domestically retained their Jewish religious practises.

In fact, for many in the Islamic empire who weren't Muslim, their lack of faith gave them a raw deal. It was very much a case of 'convert to Islam and have many rights, or stay non-Muslim and have most rights taken away'. With such a choice, even the most devout non Muslims must've struggled to keep away from pronouncing their Shahada in public.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

"And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, would you force the people in order that they become believers?" (10:99)

It makes no sense to force someone to become Muslim. It wouldn't work... the person wouldn't even really be a Muslim. One has to make the choice for himself/herself.

Ottoman sultans may have never ever seen this verse... Is that possible?

 

[plenary]

Islam can only lead to one thing, civil war. Because peoples don't accept the lying, the bullying and the criminal doctrine itself....

When Muslims get the upper hand, they will start stealing, harassing and murdering, just like in Lebanon... Which is the one and only reason, why most Muslims countries have Muslim percentages close to 100% and that is not because the doctrine is Godly or fantastic, only because of oppression... Just like Jesus Christ himself foretold, as conveyed in certain modern prophetic texts....

There is no compulsion in religion? Right. There is compulsion in Islam... It is one of it's pillars...

Muslims can refer to their fake God all they want, Jehova Zebaoth will not tolerate this kind of behavior indefinitely...

Just like in previous times, there is always a possibility of God's judgment, but when the heart of people get fat, they forget.... There are prophecies, in which Jesus regards the earth angry, with a drawn out sword...


Stop deceiving (especially yourselves)...

 

[Montalban]

"And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, would you force the people in order that they become believers?" (10:99)

It makes no sense to force someone to become Muslim. It wouldn't work... the person wouldn't even really be a Muslim. One has to make the choice for himself/herself.

Where does it say that choice is the only way?

It's known that if a Christian woman marries a Moslem man the children MUST be raised Moslem.

And for that reason a Moslem woman cannot marry a Christian man.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

When Muslims get the upper hand

And this is key... They don't have the upper hand in the West and most Westerners don't read Islam's violent history of how to achieve that upper hand.

 

[plenary]

And this is key... They don't have the upper hand in the West and most Westerners don't read Islam's violent history of how to achieve that upper hand.

True... But they will find out sooner or later...

What bugs me the greatest, is the deceiving part of Islam... Muslims are obligated to lie about Islam, to further the religion... What kind of sick doctrine is this... In Islam the biggest deceiver is allah himself... One has to have a real twisted view of God, to call him a deceiver and a torturer, which are both claims out of the Quran and Hadith...
Allah is a poor man's God, who needs to lie and oppress to spread his religion... (Islam means submission, whether voluntary or by the sword) God save us all....

And because of the fact that the word meekness, humble, lovingkindness are ABSOLUTELY ALIEN to Islam, they cannot and will not criticize themselves... Because they don't have that kind of maturity, meekness, humility let alone loving kindness.... NOPE, they have to behave harshly towards non-Muslims... The Laws of Love? The laws of Christ? Abolished.... Jihad is the new law and everything is allowed, hatred, deception, oppression... Torture... Madhouse....

That's the reason why Muslims always critice others, but lashing a gang-raped women 200 types, as commanded by the judges of Saudi-Arabia... Nothing wrong with that, right?? The doctrine of Islam talks about Jews being pigs and apes... But the judges who commanded 200 lashes to that poor woman, are not even pigs, because that would be a gross insult to the animal family of pigs... There is no designation for those kind of monsters.

And where it all comes down to, is a total lack of reason... Muslims have absolutely no idea, what the real characteristics of God are.... Instead he is a deceiving, torturing maniac... Muslims blindly accept the Quran and are clueless to what is important to God... Namely love.... (And the love of self, as is also the case when a Muslim only loves other Muslims is no love at all, but hey, I recon you might as well talk to a wall, because reason and cleverness, are also not part of the Muslim dictionary, only oppression, harassment and murder are....)

But what's more important, God (the real one) doesn't allow all good things to perish.. There is only one restriction, though, and that i that Christians should walk in the ways of God... Which is the only requisite...

Otherwise God cannot help us... For we have to be just, holy and walk meekly and above all else, LOVE....

 

[FRM48]

Which form of lying?Taqiyya,which is saying something that isn't true or Kitman,which is lying by omission.Or are you talking about both?

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I agree with your observations, most of us has some kind of dealings with Islam or followers of Islam during our lives, and I say that again we observe these certain things, those you wrote about plenary, but then if we speak about it, then we are intolerant, cruel, non-peace-loving people...

 

[Servant of Jesus]

Stop defending this religion of murder.

The fruits of Islam for the last month or so:

2011.03.09 (Cairo, Egypt) - Nine Copts, including a child, are killed and over a hundred more injured when a Muslim mob hurls firebombs and shoots into a group protesting a church burning.

etc.

And notice that once again, the Muslims participating here can only ignore the truth, or try and distract us away from the truth, and hope that the rest of the world doesn't notice the atrocities condoned by the Qur'an, modelled by Muhammed, and proven time and time again by the almost daily reports of Islamic violence and murder.

 

[plenary]

And notice that once again, the Muslims participating here can only ignore the truth, or try and distract us away from the truth, and hope that the rest of the world doesn't notice the atrocities condoned by the Qur'an, modelled by Muhammed, and proven time and time again by the almost daily reports of Islamic violence and murder.

It is our responsibility as Christians, to live a life of Love, give our whole hearts to God and be strong.... Dread Champions, just like David was....

Being a Christian and being humble also means to stand for the good of this world. That is our responsibility... Not of anyone else, the Christians...

The devil attacks the world from all angles... Whether it be atheism or false teachings and doctrines, of which Islam is a prime example... But for a Christian, it is of utmost importance to stand in the truth, girded with all the spiritual weaponry... Because the fight is not with flesh, but with the spiritual legions in the air....

I've read prophecies, that in this day and age, the Church is being purified, before the world will become purified.. I've seen other prophecies, in which Jesus looks with a grave and angry face to the earth with a sword in His hand.... God does only condone evil for a little while... (Even though, for us, it sometimes seems like an eternity...)

God does not condone lies, even when Islam teaches it's no problem...

The old and new testament dictate so:

Exodus 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
James 12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and [your] nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

But off course, Muhammad dictates otherwise:

Bukhari:V7B67N427 "The Prophet said, 'If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.'"

Even allah deceives... What can be expected from a religion like this:

Qur'an 4:142 "Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them."

 

[PHenry42]

I've spoken to him enough to know that is not what he is attempting to do. He was stating that both events were ethnic cleansing. Granted, I tend to view people leaving on their own accord and people being murdered en masse to not even be the same game much less the same ballpark, but there it is.

Leaving of their own accord, but being forcibly prevented from returning. That makes it ethnic cleansing. Going abroad to be safe is a natural and rational thing to do when there's a war going on. Temporary absence is no basis for the revocation of citizenship and confiscation of property. Or, can I take over your house and your stuff the next time you go to the grocery store? Would your temporary absence make it legal?

It saddens me to see you too take part in the same obfuscation that has deluded the majority of the world's Jews to believe that their support of Israel, and rejection of a Palestinian right of return, is not support of ethnic cleansing.

 

[PHenry42]

What a bunch of nonsense- Palestinians make up 20% of Israeli citizens, and they are, by and large, treated as equals by the Jewish people- they are free to worship, free to have businesses, are treated the same under Israeli law, etc. etc.

That would be the descendants of the small amount of Palestinians who were allowed to stay after 1948. I'm talking about the rest, who became refugees and remain so due to Israel's refusal to let them return. Are you ignorant of what I'm talking about, or did you deliberately misunderstand to be able to apply one of your talking points?

 

[b&wpac7]

Leaving of their own accord, but being forcibly prevented from returning. That makes it ethnic cleansing. Going abroad to be safe is a natural and rational thing to do when there's a war going on. Temporary absence is no basis for the revocation of citizenship and confiscation of property. Or, can I take over your house and your stuff the next time you go to the grocery store? Would your temporary absence make it legal?

The two situations are not comparable. For one, they had no citizenship to Israel. You cannot be revoked of what you do not possess. I cannot, for example, be revoked Canadian citizenship. Secondly, they left with the hopes that Israel would be erased from the map. They turned their back on Israel. I'm sorry, but if I were a country in a similar situation, I would have done the same thing. You basically have land you have won though war that was deserted at the time. Do you have any belief at all that the Jews would have been allowed to stay had Israel lost? Honestly? No way. They would have been killed or deported.

 

[PHenry42]

They were citizens of the Mandate of Palestine. Israel succeeded it, thus it inherits the rights and liabilities of it. Change in the legal status of a territory does not invalidate the basic legal rights of the people living there.

What motivations they left with is anyone's guess, and there probably were as many motivations as there were refugees. You're impying guilt based on what supposedly went on in their minds at the time, something which is utterly unprovable and not a crime anyway. To leave your place of residence is not an act of aggression against anyone.

The land was not deserted. Its residents were temporarily away, because of a well-founded fear for their safety.

As for whether the Jews would have been allowed to stay had Israel lost, that is utterly irrelevant too. The rights of person A are in no way dependent on what entity B might potentially do to person C if person C came into B's power.

 

[b&wpac7]

As for whether the Jews would have been allowed to stay had Israel lost, that is utterly irrelevant too. The rights of person A are in no way dependent on what entity B might potentially do to person C if person C came into B's power.

To us, right now perhaps. But they were under the immanent threat of being attacked again. We can't just ignore that fact. I would not have given land back and hoped for the best at the time. Now, it's decades later and the people who left are more than likely dead by this point. The people living there were probably not alive when it happened.

All we can do is work from TODAY on. Lingering on the past will never fix anything. We cannot simply pretend that the attack on Israel didn't occur and press a reset button. So, what can we do TODAY to move on? The answer is not for all Israelis to leave those areas and give it back to the Palestinians. Especially not in the light of the suicide bombers and rockets being fired into Israel. Israel must protect itself just as the US would protect itself if people in Mexico started conducing suicide bombings and firing rockets into Texas.