Islam doesn't condone terror

[Montalban]

In the news today it is reported that Indonesia's Muslims have stepped up their attacks against Christians and their churches. These attacks have been going on for many years throughout the world. It has not been reported that millions of Christians have died in the past decade, due to Islamist being at war with Christianity. A fact that the government and news agencies sweep under the table. Because Islam is the religion of peace, that is why other Muslims will not stop their Muslim brothers.

There's a great site here called Jihad Watch

A local site Voice of the Martyrs is another good site. They have branches in other countries.

Both deal with all manner of persecution of God's church, not just by Moslems.

 

[Montalban]

I think Israel is on the right track- don't stoop to their level of heinous violence- but make sure that when they do strike, there is a strong response.

Given that they've always faced annihilation it's amazing that they've held back so much

Moslem hate is so great that during Gulf War I the Iraqis tried to bring Israel into the war knowing that the Arab states would withdraw rather than be allies of Israel. They'd rather let Saddam take over than ally themselves with Israel.

 

[b&wpac7]

Well, whether you want to call him the devil or satan, or the serpent who tempted Eve (as in Genesis 3), or the spirit that led the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah astray- he is an entity that opposes God and is associated with evil.

The New Testament has more direct references- but for obvious reasons, I'll spare you those.

I will not attempt to tell you what your faith teaches. Please do not presume to tell me what mine teaches.

 

[b&wpac7]

I think Israel is on the right track- don't stoop to their level of heinous violence- but make sure that when they do strike, there is a strong response.

I agree. However Israel continues peace talks. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Montalban]

I will not attempt to tell you what your faith teaches. Please do not presume to tell me what mine teaches.

Satan in Judaism

Hebrew Bible

The original Hebrew term, satan, is a noun from a verb meaning primarily to, “obstruct, oppose,” as it is found in Numbers 22:22, 1 Samuel 29:4, Psalms 109:6.[4] Ha-Satan is traditionally translated as “the accuser,” or “the adversary.” The definite article “ha-”, English “the”, is used to show that this is a title bestowed on a being, versus the name of a being. Thus this being would be referred to as “the Satan.”[5]

Ha-Satan with the definite article occurs three times in the Hebrew Bible:
Job ch.1-2,
1 Chronicles 21:1,
Zechariah 3:1.[6]

Job's Satan In the Book of Job, ha-Satan is a member of the divine council, “the sons of God” who are subservient to God. Ha-Satan in this capacity is many times translated as “the prosecutor,” and is charged by God to tempt humans and to report back to God all who go against His decrees. At the beginning of the book, Job is a good person “who feared God and turned away from evil,” (Job 1:1) and has therefore been rewarded by God. When the divine council meets, God boasts to ha-Satan about Job's blameless, morally upright character. Between Job 1:9-10 and 2:4-5, ha-Satan merely points out that God has given Job everything that a man could want, so of course Job would be loyal to God; if all Job has been given, even his health, were to be taken away from him, however, his faith would collapse. God therefore grants ha-Satan the chance to test Job.[7] Due to this, it has been interpreted that ha-Satan is under God’s control and cannot act without God’s permission. This is further shown in the epilogue of Job in which God is speaking to Job, ha-Satan is absent from these dialogues. “For Job, for [Job’s] friends, and for the narrator, it is ultimately Yahweh himself who is responsible for Job’s suffering; as Yahweh says to the “satan”, ‘You have incited me against him, to destroy him for no reason.’ (Job 2:3) ” [6]
[edit]
Septuagint

In the Septuagint the Hebrew ha-Satan in Job and Zechariah is translated by the Greek word diabolos, slanderer, the same word in the Greek New Testament from which the English word devil is derived. Where satan is used of human enemies in the Hebrew Bible, such as of Hadad the Edomite and Rezon the Syrian, the word is left untranslated but transliterated in the Greek as satan, a neologism in Greek.[8] In Zechariah 3 this changes the vision of the conflict over Joshua the High Priest in the Septuagint into a conflict between "Jesus and the devil", identical with the Greek text of Matthew.
Satan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[b&wpac7]

Seems to agree with what I said.

 

[GuardianShua]

In Judaism the word Satan is part of the parables used and not a real person.

 

[lucaspa]

1) Peace: The Prophet himself, the one who received this revelation from God, raised an army and conquered, by acts of war, other cities. Despite the fact that there were "minimal casualties" during the conquest of Mecca, the Prophet, himself, still raised a large army bent on conquering the surrounding areas. Muhammed may have even killed people by his own hand perhaps during the conquest of the Banu Qurayza tribe. How can one be peaceful if he raises an army and conquers lands by war?

How can Judaism be peaceful when they conqueored Palestine by war?

How can George Washington be considered peaceful when he led the Contintental Army in war?

You need to remember historical context. There is such a thing as "just war". Mohammed was dealing with neighbors that attempted to suppress the religion by force. He resisted by force.

2) Tolerance: The Prophet, himself, had "enemies" which he set out to conquer such as the tribes of Hawazin. How can one be tolerant of others if he has enemies which he tries to conquer?

How can the United States be "tolerant" when we conqueored Nazi Germany and Japan? Does "tolerant" mean doing nothing in the face of aggressive enemies?

I'm sorry if I have offended anyone but my own research has lead me to conclude that certain facts about the Prophet's life seem to contradict the messages now being purported to exemplify the religion which he began.

People in glass houses should not throw stones. Notice that you emphasize you are talking only about Muhammed.

But we Christians have bigger problems showing that we are peaceful. According to our holy books, God Himself is a terrorrist. Remember God killing all the firstborn in Egypt? What is that if not a terrorist act? Remember that God caused the walls of Jericho to fall down? What was the result to the people of the city? Every man, woman, and child was killed. Moses had some political opposition. What did God do? Set the tent on fire where those opponents were gathered and burned them to death. When the army under Moses direction defeated the Midianites, what did Moses have them do? Kill all the captives except the young virgin females. Those Moses commanded be raped and turned into sex slaves.

In David's time when God gave David the victory over the Amelekites, what did God command? Kill every man, woman, child, and beast. David argued to spare the beasts.

Nor can you get around this by pointing to the NT. The God of the OT is the same God as in the NT.

So why should we believe Christianity is peaceful when God directly committed horrible acts of violence and conquest? How can you think Christians are tolerant?

I think Christians should deal with the log in their own eye before they worry about the dust mote in the Islamic eye. Before worrying whether Islam and Muslims are peaceful, you have better be able to convince everyone that Christianity and Christians are peaceful. That's going to take a lot of work.

 

[AskTheFamily]

A good book regarding this subject is the following: Jihad: The Holy War of Islam and Its Legitimacy in The Quran

 

[razeontherock]

The problem is that you really don't know what any of what you have said means. You don't really understand any of it, and you're throwing it out to attack, but doing so with such extreme holes in your knowledge that you might as well be writing in Greek for all of the comprehension that exists in your words.

If you like, you could take my challenge to prove it!!

This is your post #63, in response to post #62. Did you (or anyone) ever give the correct understanding of what was said in post #62?

ETA: no, no one did. Please do!

 

[razeontherock]

I'm sure not all Muslims do. But some of the things one sees going on in some Muslim majority countries is just terrifying. I remember seeing this one documentary on saddams torture recordings. And then after the Iraq War with all the beheadings, crucifixions, chopping off of hands and feet, mine fields.

idk, having your head sawed off with a small knife while you are alive seems quite horrifying and terrifying.

Not that I don't find that terrifying, but that's nothing compared to having small pieces of a limb chopped off, a little bit more with each cut, and being left to live as this proceeds quite some time, one digit at a time, one limb at a time, fully expecting not to live through it. This happened to one of our soldiers during WWII and after that story got out our fighter pilots used any Arab they encountered as strafing practice.

Not sure this has any relationship to Islam, but this is the mindset I'd like to see wiped off the planet.

 

[razeontherock]

Interfaith dialogue can take a few routes.

There are those who only wish to have strife and conflict. These people are the enemies of peace. They do not wish for the world to get better, to attempt less war, to attempt less suffering through religious conflict. They merely care about their side being better or winning.

There are also those who wish to find common ground. To have peaceful discussions where each side can learn and understand better. They do what those who wish to create conflict hate; they talk. Talk is the great enemy of conflict. When people become humanized, it is harder to harm them. The conflict minded people wish to reduce the other side into beings that are less than human, that move with a single mind and are only there to fight.

It is up to each of us to decide which side we wish to be on.

Beautiful point! Thank you.

 

[razeontherock]

In the news today it is reported that Indonesia's Muslims have stepped up their attacks against Christians and their churches. These attacks have been going on for many years throughout the world. It has not been reported that millions of Christians have died in the past decade, due to Islamist being at war with Christianity. A fact that the government and news agencies sweep under the table. Because Islam is the religion of peace, that is why other Muslims will not stop their Muslim brothers.

The Indonesian situation has been grim for well over a decade. Amazing miracles have happened there though! I wonder if the highly educated Mr Fahim would care to comment?

 

[plenary]

Originally Posted by Montalban
You religion states not to have a Jew or Christian even as a close friend. It establishes walls between you and 'non-believers'.

The Koran is full of verses that are derogatory - aimed principally at the Jews, but also some at Christians as well.
Yes no friends

You are impure

Indoctrination is the name of the game.... One has to blindly follow after Muhammad to believe the rantings of the Quran...

It is a curse to mankind... (especially to the Muslims themselves... It corrupts the minds of people...)

Matthew 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Mark 4:23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
25 For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

 

[plenary]

There is only one way in which to achieve peace in the Middle east, most notably Israel and that is to listen to the prophet Muhammad:

Let's hear from the "religion of peace",

Qur'an 8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them."

Bukhari:V4B52N260 "The Prophet said, 'If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.'"

Qur'an 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends."

Qur'an 74:31 "We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the People of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease."

Bukhari:V4B52N288 "Expel disbelievers from the Arabian Peninsula.'"

That does bode well....

Peace in the Middle east is impossible, when the ruling philosophy of the region is as abject as the philosophy of Islam...

Qur'an 2:191 "Slay them wherever you find and catch them, and drive them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter."

Bukhari:V5B59N727 "When Allah's Apostle became seriously sick, he started covering his face with a woolen sheet. When he felt short of breath, he removed it, and said, 'That is so! Allah's curse be on Jews and Christians.'"

Peace in the Middle east? IMPOSSIBLE

Because Muhammad did not bless anyone, he only cursed....

Romans 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Muhammad should have listened to Paul and Christ the Lord....

 

[plenary]

Originally Posted by Supreme
You realise Israel isn't on the Arabian peninsula.

Right?
It soon will be

It isn't on the Arabian peninsula, but that doesn't matter a whole lot... What does matter is the mindset of Islam...

As Christ Himself explained, a tree can be judged by its fruits...

Muhammad doesn't even qualify as a prophet, because he did not prophecy through the Holy Spirit, but do you think that matters to the Muslims? They keep on shouting, that the Quran is valid and the Bible isn't. And that's that...

To return to the question of the thread, does Islam condone terror? Not only that, it exalts terror....
And besides, the fear of retaliation is the only force strong enough for Israel to live in relative peace, just like it is the case in the hells...

If Israel wasn't supported by the US and if Israel didn't have the strong army it has, genocide had already taken place, just like in the second world war... Because Muhammad himself was anti-semitic... And so are many of his followers... Just look at the exodus of Lebanon, which had been going on, the last decade. (the only reason that there is an amount of Christians moving to Lebanon is because the Irakian Christians are being murdered in Irak, but the Lebanese Christians are leaving the country, since the amount of Muslims approached 50% in Lebanon...

It is almost impossible, for a non muslim, to live in a muslim country or a country that is becoming muslim... And the sad part being, that the muslims rejoice in that fact.... Is that love? Is that what God wants? I don't think so... Allah perhaps, but Jehova God, most certainly not.

Just like in the hells, the fear of retaliation is the only reason why certain countries do not attack Israel at this time, they would otherwise...

 

[razeontherock]

What do you mean by "the hells?"

 

[Servant of Jesus]

1 John 4:

1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

1 John 3:

19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

 

[b&wpac7]

Muhammad doesn't even qualify as a prophet, because he did not prophecy through the Holy Spirit

I don't want to nit-pick, but...

How exactly do you know which prophets were that way and which were not?

 

[JJWhite]

LOL...

[16:102] Say, "The Holy Spirit (Ar-Ruh Al-Qudus) has brought it down from your Lord, truthfully, to assure those who believe, and to provide a beacon and good news for the submitters."