Isaiah 53

[Graydon Booth]

I've heard from Jews and Atheists that Christians just "shoehorned" in Isaiah 53 to make the messiah a "suffering servant" and thus "prevent" Jesus from failing, and that there was no Jewish tradition of a suffering and dying messiah. What do you think of this?

(Now of course I don't believe we shoehorned Isaiah 53 in there at all, this was just an interesting objection I've heard)

 

[levnishbar]

I believe that in many things God does, He leaves room for ambiguity so that when people see/hear about it, there is room for faith. People have to decide what version they want to put their belief in.

Sometimes God does showmanship (think Moses and the Plagues), but I believe it is part of God's character to be low key and rarely into showmanship, 1 Kings 19:9-12. God was in the still small voice, and not the shattering wind, fire or earthquake.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter. Just look at Yeshua too - how He was divine and yet humbled Himself to the point of death (Phil 2:8).

 

[disciple Clint]

I've heard from Jews and Atheists that Christians just "shoehorned" in Isaiah 53 to make the messiah a "suffering servant" and thus "prevent" Jesus from failing, and that there was no Jewish tradition of a suffering and dying messiah. What do you think of this?

(Now of course I don't believe we shoehorned Isaiah 53 in there at all, this was just an interesting objection I've heard)

I believe that there over 300 messianic prophecies in the old Testament. That many might be a little difficult to dispute.

 

[levnishbar]

I believe that there over 300 messianic prophecies in the old Testament. That many might be a little difficult to dispute.

May seem difficult to dispute for those who are saved, but for those who are perishing, it is veiled (2 Corinthians 4:3).

Prophecies are known to people to varying degrees and yet unbelief still remains.

 

[tturt]

Yes, there's hundreds of messianic prophecies in the Old Testament.

Most unbelievers wouldn't agree with this either "...for their minds have been blinded by the god of this age, leaving them in unbelief. Their blindness keeps them from seeing the dayspring light of the wonderful news of the glory of Jesus Christ, who is the divine image of God." (II Cor 4:4).

And we were in that state beforehand.

 

[Minister Monardo]

I've heard from Jews and Atheists that Christians just "shoehorned" in Isaiah 53 to make the messiah a "suffering servant" and thus "prevent" Jesus from failing, and that there was no Jewish tradition of a suffering and dying messiah. What do you think of this?

(Now of course I don't believe we shoehorned Isaiah 53 in there at all, this was just an interesting objection I've heard)

That would place the "shoehorn" in the hand of the apostle Peter:
1 Peter 2:
21 For this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 “Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;
23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committe to Him who judges righteously;
24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.
25 For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Isaiah 53:
3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Isaiah 53:

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
10 He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.

Psalm 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

1 Peter 2:
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

Galatians 3:
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[atpollard]

That would place the "shoehorn" in the hand of the apostle Peter:

Got to love those First Century Conspiracy Theory spreading Fishermen who added chapters to Sacred Rabbinical Scripture (The Prophets).

 

[Minister Monardo]

Got to love those First Century Conspiracy Theory spreading Fishermen who added chapters to Sacred Rabbinical Scripture (The Prophets).

The Sanhedrin called them idiots.
Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men [G2399 idiotes="unlearned"], they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I've heard from Jews and Atheists that Christians just "shoehorned" in Isaiah 53 to make the messiah a "suffering servant" and thus "prevent" Jesus from failing, and that there was no Jewish tradition of a suffering and dying messiah. What do you think of this?

(Now of course I don't believe we shoehorned Isaiah 53 in there at all, this was just an interesting objection I've heard)

Correct, no Jewish tradition, even the Apostles did not think of the Messiah this way, a suffering Servant, until the Mystery was revealed to them. But alas, He was, and He made it clear that the Kingdom of God is not of this world.
They continue in their own traditions of men ignoring the fulfillment by God.
There really is not much more than that.
Blessings

 

[Yekcidmij]

I've heard from Jews and Atheists that Christians just "shoehorned" in Isaiah 53 to make the messiah a "suffering servant" and thus "prevent" Jesus from failing, and that there was no Jewish tradition of a suffering and dying messiah. What do you think of this?

(Now of course I don't believe we shoehorned Isaiah 53 in there at all, this was just an interesting objection I've heard)

Qumran had the concept of a suffering/dying messiah. There are also hints as early as Zechariah that there was some sort of concept of suffering/dying messiah (Zech 12:10).

Some scholars have argued that the suffering servant in Isaiah was an individual. Sellin, for example, argued it was Zerubbabel. Others have argued that the suffering servant was Isaiah himself.

There has always been a debate over who/what the suffering servant of Isaiah is. The debate seems to come down to it being: Israel, the messiah, or the prophet himself. Even as early as Acts, you can see the debate when the Ethiopian Eunuch is reading from Isaiah 53 and asks Philip a question:

Acts 8:34 "The eunuch answered Philip and said, "Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?""

So, Christians didn't invent the idea of a suffering servant in Isaiah 53. And the suffering and crucifixion of Jesus is pretty incontrovertible.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

Couldn't a Rabbi by a midrash arrive at the conclusion that the suffering servant was both Isaiah and the Messiah?